I can't remember being more frustrated with an MU player. I believe Wilson has more natural talent than anyone else on the MU team. He has a body built for basketball, a smooth shot, can jump out of the gym. But it almost seems like he makes dumb plays on purpose. I've talked to him at a couple of functions during the summer and he seems well spoken and intelligent. What happens when he steps on the court? I assume that Buzz is starting Anderson in his place to try to motivate him but it sure doesn't seem to be working. What is it going to take to get this guy to play to his potential? He would have a legit shot at playing in the NBA in a couple of years if he would just apply himself. I hope he's just waiting for the BE season so he can be fresh ?-(
I remember at State his senior year he went off more so than Vander and was doing it every which way. I thought he'd develop a nice intermediate game, it hasn't really happened yet. I think he did a good job rebounding and defending in the paint last year though. He's valuable but hasn't flourished at star level like his frame and physical traits suggest.
Watching him was really frustrating today. Seemed to take some possessions off, and didn't appear to hustle in some key situations. Turnovers were painful. Agreed, he seems so talented, but I can't seem to figure it out.
Jamil has had a few bad games but lets be real here. He is shooting .506 from the floor and a fantastic .522 from 3. He is only turning it over 1.45 times a game which isn't bad.
If anything he needs to be more assertive. He passes up too many shots when he is our best offenssive option other then Gardner.
One of his turnovers today was probably more Mayo's fault for not coming to the ball.
I've thought 3 things about Jamil Wilson offensively that seem to be problematic:
1. He seems to have a Dominic James type issue with his jump shot -- he has a high jump and it makes it more difficult to be consistent. He seems to jump higher when he does those mid-range shots, and it seems to effect the consistency.
2. He shies away from contact. JFB and Lazar were both able to score against bigger players because they would jump right into their chests and neutralize them with the contact.
3. He doesn't seem to have a pet move, place on the floor, or play to call for him that can get him going when he's not going. There are some shots he takes that when he takes them it appears he's thinking, 'this is a good distance from which to take a shot so I should take it,' but you can tell he's not comfortable taking the shot. Scorers seem to have their spots on the floor, know how to get there and can hit the shot because they've hit it many times.
Even with these issues, he's pretty good. Just believe, like others, that he can be better. I thought he was coming off the bench to bring more offense off the bench (I know this doesn't make a ton of sense with Davante also coming off the bench) and to motivate Juan. I don't know if this is the case though because I don't have a good handle at all on Buzz's substitution patterns yet - it would be easier to draw conclusions if he substituted more like Tom Thibodeau.
The best way I can sum up my feelings toward Jamil Wilson at this moment is to compare him to Scott Merritt. All of the physical ability in the world, smart kid, somehow doesn't become all he should be on the floor.
6'7" athlete that can run, jump and shoot better than 50% from three-point land (12-23 so far this year). Why isn't he on the short list to succeed Crowder for BE POY?
I feel like if you look back at the player each year who we have expected to step up and lead the team to be "the guy" (as I thought Jamil would this year) for the past 4 years, its not fair to Jamil. Each of those players had a senior leader in their junior year. Lazar had the 3 amigos, Jimmy had Lazar, and Jae and Jimmy. If all Jamil had to do was fill the Jimmy Butler role (from when Jimmy was a junior) I think we would be talking about this player as our glue guy.
I'm not trying to excuse it all, but simply temper my own expectations. I think he will continue to blossom this year and be a monster next year. He will be in his fourth year with our team next year and I bet we are talking about him in a different way.
I have been disappointed by Jamil's inability to take over a game, Trent's tentativeness, and Jake's shooting. I have to remind myself though that there are probably legitimate reasons for all of them. Like what I mentioned above, playing time, or the fact that Trent Lockett is a Pac-12 spy...
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 23, 2012, 09:43:21 AM
6'7" athlete that can run, jump and shoot better than 50% from three-point land (12-23 so far this year). Why isn't he on the short list to succeed Crowder for BE POY?
Don't know that he can get to that level, but remember it took jae a year to get going in his role in the offense. I think he had an awful game at UW last year, like 3 pts on made fts or something, but somehow put it together down the stretch and won POY. I don't think jamil is that good, but if we're looking for optimism, there's a good chance hell improve as the season goes on and potentially get closer to the jae/zar role we all think he can fill. The fact is, he's probably more talented than those guys were, he just needs to play with more toughness and I bet he can get there.
Quote from: Lazer Sound on December 23, 2012, 10:11:34 AM
I'm not trying to excuse it all, but simply temper my own expectations. I think he will continue to blossom this year and be a monster next year. He will be in his fourth year with our team next year and I bet we are talking about him in a different way.
This. I really think if he is healthy will have a breakout Senior year. Above a comparison to Merritt was made. I believe he will compare to Novak (not in style in play, but the guy we knew could be great, but took his Senior year to show it).
My guess is that Wilson will be more and more key to the team as this season progresses and then has a monster season next year.
Quote from: karavotsos on December 22, 2012, 09:45:42 PM
I've thought 3 things about Jamil Wilson offensively that seem to be problematic:
2. He shies away from contact.
This is the one that frustrates me the most. Our star players in the past used to relish beating the crap out of the other team, and getting beat up a little bit in the process. Jamil hasn't shown much besides a jumper, like he's auditioning for Jake Thomas' specialty shooter role rather than star of the team which we all feel he's capable of being.
He's a kitten
SORRY, I BLEW UP.! ILLINOIS HAS ANOTHER DILEMA WITH MICHAEL SHAW, 6-8, 215 F, WHO HAS IT ALL!
NAME SOUND FAMILIAR.
I think Jamil has everything - he's got all the tools - he's smart and an excellent athlete who's in great condition. All that's missing is an "edge." Somehow he's got to get mad or fired up to win - to take over the game. Hopefully Buzz can figure out how to get the best out of him.
I hope most of you are right, that it is just a matter of time and he will come around. As I remember he had a reputation when he played in High School of not playing hard all the time. I figured that Buzz could cure that. Some of his dumb plays come from trying to do something spectacular that will wow the crowd instead of making the simple play that will probably just result in a basket. Finally its not that he has a "bad" attitude; but he doesn't have that killer attitude and I'm not sure you can develop that. With most of our best players you could tell that they Hated to Lose. Jae, Lazar, the 3 Amigos, Diener, losing was something they just couldn't abide. Jamil kind of seems like he feels "its only a game".
Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 23, 2012, 10:22:17 AM
This. I really think if he is healthy will have a breakout Senior year. Above a comparison to Merritt was made. I believe he will compare to Novak (not in style in play, but the guy we knew could be great, but took his Senior year to show it).
My guess is that Wilson will be more and more key to the team as this season progresses and then has a monster season next year.
Yea, but Jamil is already a senior (age wise). How long does it take for him to become more than a role player?
Yeah! I am somewhat disappointed in Jamil; as has been mentioned he does not like contact. The guy I am really disappointed with is Lockett. I guess my expectations for him were too high.
Jamil hit two clutch threes yesterday to help stem the tide...one for the four point play. On another, he hustled after his miss to retrieve the rebound. He had a series of a couple of plays where he got a brain cramp...but some of that was miscommunication and he was avoiding foul trouble. In reality, he is playing a new role as the featured inside-outside forward...yet unlike his predecessors of Lazar, Jimmy and Jae...he is more outside...a point forward. I like his mid range and wide post game as aspects those others didn't have. Also with more minutes come BE time, he will be more featured and his natural ability will take over. Tough match up for teams.
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2012, 08:09:06 AM
The best way I can sum up my feelings toward Jamil Wilson at this moment is to compare him to Scott Merritt. All of the physical ability in the world, smart kid, somehow doesn't become all he should be on the floor.
Whoah, low blow there. Jamil is already much better than Merritt's feature years, just needs to get more comfortable in his role (as it seems like virtually everyone on the squad does this year). He just needs to gain consistency. He's also only one game removed from scoring 1/3 of the team's points and being the only reason they were even in the game. I think some are correct that when he has a fire lit under him he plays better. When that guy from UWGB tried to take the ball from him at stoppage of play, Jamil looked pissed and went on a scoring rampage. If he can start harnessing that more regularly, he will be a star. Buzz has shown the ability to get that out of players. If I had to bet, he will do the same with Jamil.
I haven't given up on Jamil yet.
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2012, 12:24:34 PM
I haven't given up on Jamil yet.
Yes, actually he has played well but for some Sicily passes.
Quote from: Nukem2 on December 23, 2012, 12:50:32 PM
Yes, actually he has played well but for some Sicily passes.
Spicy meatball tosses?
Quote from: Jajuannaman on December 23, 2012, 01:06:15 PM
Spicy meatball tosses?
Oops, iPad predictive spelling ......have to re-read what I type...!
Jamil is an athlete and a good ball player. Stop this madness. The team as a whole is wildly inconsistent. Don't put this all on him.
He will be a star and go down in the annals as one of the greats.
Hopefully the analogy will be Wes ... Once Buzz figures out how to get the blanket off his head.
The kid has all the ability in the world and sure hope it shows itself on regular basis. As for Merritt comparison, Jamil is far more advanced as athlete and basketball player. I learned early on what to expect from SM and was seldom disappointed in him. Wilson is frustrating because he is a top level D1 talent and gets lost in shuffle too often.
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2012, 08:09:06 AM
The best way I can sum up my feelings toward Jamil Wilson at this moment is to compare him to Scott Merritt. All of the physical ability in the world, smart kid, somehow doesn't become all he should be on the floor.
More like Ron Curry.....although Wilson has Lottery Pick potential....still
Knight
Great call on Ron Curry and lottery pick potential. Wilson has it all if he wants to use it. Would be very disappointed for him if he did not play long time and next level.
Quote from: Knight Commission on December 23, 2012, 04:19:22 PM
although Wilson has Lottery Pick potential....
One of the best school boys. One of the best schoolboys. Kid has all the potential to make the show!
I don't think negatively of JWil at all. I definitely don't think that he lacks hustle, or needed to be motivated by coming off the bench or anything. To me he has always appeared to be a communicator and a leader. A positive attitude and influence on the team from those perspectives.
He just appeared to be one of our best potential scorers coming into the year and I expected that to play out. I expected him to be one of Buzz's classic Jae/Zar types - top of the key and work down low. Maybe that's not how he is most effective as a scorer. Maybe he is more of a pure shooter. For MU to win against better teams he has to score -- most likely. The concern is that in both Florida and Butler he did not score and didn't look comfortable with his shots. I don't even know that its necessarily that its anything that JWil is doing.
It's just the team together figuring out where to get their scorers to score most effectively. Having the will to get our guys to our spots. If he has to operate from the outside to be effective, let him work from outside.
Quote from: Tony Two Times on December 23, 2012, 04:40:57 PM
One of the best school boys. One of the best schoolboys. Kid has all the potential to make the show!
Tony, what gives? In almost all of your posts, you say things twice. What's the deal with that?
Jamil reminds me of Jimmy Butler in his junior year. Sure, Jimmy had bigger numbers but he also played about 10 minutes more per game largely because that '09-'10 MU team only went about 6.5 deep.
Neither guy is the type of player who has the mindset of "give me the ball and let me take over." That's just not their game. They both play well within the offense, rarely force shots, shoot a high percentage and play larger than their size. The biggest difference is that Butler was better at drawing contact and getting to the FT line. There were many times on this board when posters (myself included) would comment on how Jimmy often would go up for a shot near the rim and seem preoccupied with trying to draw contact as opposed to simply trying to make the shot. Wilson, on the other hand, tries to make the shot as opposed to drawing contact. Considering Wilson shoots around 80% from the line, I have no doubt that this is something Buzz is working on with him.
Quote from: MuMark on December 22, 2012, 09:37:57 PM
Jamil has had a few bad games but lets be real here. He is shooting .506 from the floor and a fantastic .522 from 3. He is only turning it over 1.45 times a game which isn't bad.
Some players play better than their stats. Some play worse.
So far this season, in general, Jamil hasn't passed the smell test despite whatever stats he's had.
Maybe he's a victim of outsized expectations. Maybe he just hasn't found his stride. Here's hoping something clicks with more consistency.
Believe me, I'm not putting all blame (or even a majority of it) for our mediocre non-con on him. And I'm not giving up on him, either. Still a world of talent. We just need to see it displayed more often. That's not really asking too much, is it?
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on December 24, 2012, 06:51:04 AM
Tony, what gives? In almost all of your posts, you say things twice. What's the deal with that?
I think that's called dyslexia or somethin'.
The play was very physical versus Butler and Florida and Jamil was nowhere to be found. He's extremely talented and experienced (redshirt junior). For us to have a chance against good teams he has to show up and shine.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 24, 2012, 07:49:06 AM
Jamil reminds me of Jimmy Butler in his junior year. Sure, Jimmy had bigger numbers but he also played about 10 minutes more per game largely because that '09-'10 MU team only went about 6.5 deep.
Neither guy is the type of player who has the mindset of "give me the ball and let me take over." That's just not their game. They both play well within the offense, rarely force shots, shoot a high percentage and play larger than their size. The biggest difference is that Butler was better at drawing contact and getting to the FT line. There were many times on this board when posters (myself included) would comment on how Jimmy often would go up for a shot near the rim and seem preoccupied with trying to draw contact as opposed to simply trying to make the shot. Wilson, on the other hand, tries to make the shot as opposed to drawing contact. Considering Wilson shoots around 80% from the line, I have no doubt that this is something Buzz is working on with him.
This is what I was trying to get at too. I agree with everything you said, but would add that Jimmy never had an outside shot that I trusted (he shot that flat ball) but made many timely 3s as a senior. I think Jamil can add a post up game with a BE season and a summer still in front of him. I think Jimmy is a more apt comparison than Wes, but maybe that won't be true. Maybe Matthews is the guy he ends up looking the most like in the end, because I was actually surprised by a few times he brought the ball up against LSU. He still has a long way to go as a ball handler though.
All of this is to say he is a raw product. This may be his 3rd year with us, but its only his second year on the court. He has a lot of growing to still do. I asked a friend who is a pretty big Oregon fan recently about Jamil and he said, "Oh yeah that kid? He could be nice if he puts it all together." Made it seem like he a) had a somewhat forgettable year at OU (which we knew) and b) showed the same potential we are talking about. I think he gets there.
From what I've seen from this team so far, I think that Jamil can make or break our season.
He has star player ability with a complementary player personality.
bilsu
You might be right. I think lot does stem from his personality. Maybe too nice of a person.
Quote from: Lazer Sound on December 24, 2012, 09:48:44 AM
This is what I was trying to get at too. I agree with everything you said, but would add that Jimmy never had an outside shot that I trusted (he shot that flat ball) but made many timely 3s as a senior. I think Jamil can add a post up game with a BE season and a summer still in front of him. I think Jimmy is a more apt comparison than Wes, but maybe that won't be true. Maybe Matthews is the guy he ends up looking the most like in the end, because I was actually surprised by a few times he brought the ball up against LSU. He still has a long way to go as a ball handler though.
All of this is to say he is a raw product. This may be his 3rd year with us, but its only his second year on the court. He has a lot of growing to still do. I asked a friend who is a pretty big Oregon fan recently about Jamil and he said, "Oh yeah that kid? He could be nice if he puts it all together." Made it seem like he a) had a somewhat forgettable year at OU (which we knew) and b) showed the same potential we are talking about. I think he gets there.
Shot or no shot, one thing Jimmy did pretty much every single day was "bring it."
Can anybody recall a single game after which anybody questioned Jimmy's effort and tenacity and toughness?
And let's not be guilty of revisionist history. By the time Jimmy was in his second year in the program (as a junior), he was a major contributor on both ends, averaging 15 pts and 6 rebounds. At least as important, he was a defensive stopper and a guy who left it on the floor every game.
One thing for sure: Buzz never needed to bench him and start an inferior player just to send a message.
So please, don't insult Butler by comparing Jamil to him.
Saddest thing is, in pure talent, Jamil very well might be better than Jimmy was.
Jamil has the tools, but needs an opponent to thug him into playing with a ferocity. Saw it at Green Bay - had a tie up with Sykes, neither would let go of ball, Sykes talked some crap...immediately thereafter Jamil goes on a run of 12-14 points.
Needs to develop a mean streak and some nasty. Plays a little too upright as well - will never be great off the bounce, as his body lean isn't great.
A shame about the game up here in GB but..Jamil did his part.
My feelings are the Warriors will not go far this year...unless.... Jamil gets it going and puts the team on his shoulders like Crowder did last year. So far...no one seems to have the talent and the desire to lead the charge. C'mon Jamil......get it going, it will be up to you.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on December 22, 2012, 08:49:12 PM
I can't remember being more frustrated with an MU player.
You must not have been contributing to the boards during Scott Merritt's tenure.