Terrible execution at the end. Bad, bad loss.
It was the open shot. You don't pass on that look.
Vander missing one and one was bad
I wish Buzz didn't think that Jake Thomas has a shot. He doesn't, not in NCAA games.
16 second half points, not good
We were down 1. A 2-pointer wins it. Get the ball inside.
Very bad loss. This game was really a no win situation though.
This loss will haunt us in March.
Quote from: KC_Warrior on December 19, 2012, 09:08:28 PM
We were down 1. A 2-pointer wins it. Get the ball inside.
If you only watched the last 10 seconds, you have an argument. If you actually watched the entire game, you saw that they were denying any attempts at getting the ball inside. Wide open look on the corner three with 2 guys under the hoop? You absolutely take that shot every single time.
Quote from: KC_Warrior on December 19, 2012, 09:09:51 PM
This loss will haunt us in March.
Forget March ... how about Saturday against LSU?
I would have rather had J. Wilson take a 48 footer. We can never....... ever perform well against a zone.
'Lets just pass the ball around the perimeter until we crap our pants and turn the ball over'. 'READY......BREAK'.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 19, 2012, 09:10:23 PM
If you only watched the last 10 seconds, you have an argument. If you actually watched the entire game, you saw that they were denying any attempts at getting the ball inside. Wide open look on the corner three with 2 guys under the hoop? You absolutely take that shot every single time.
This is true. Except Jake lacks confidence.
Exactly. What has Jake shown us that tells you he can hit that shot? I understand his reputation is that of a shooter but nothing he's done this season has shown me he's capable of hitting a buzzer-beating 3 for the win.
Junior 4 for 12 from field with 5 turnovers
Blue 2 for 10 from field, 0 for 5 from three and those free throws....
Lockett 5 points, nothing unusual there
Thomas 1 for 4 from three.
Otule, well he is just not there and hasn't been since start.
Team free throws 4 for 9, with I believe two missed front end one and ones.
16 points in second half against a depleted UWGB squad. That is just unreal.
Unless some sort of miracle in Milwaukee happens soon, this team will get throttled by Louisville, Syracuse, Cincy and Georgetown.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 19, 2012, 09:10:23 PM
If you only watched the last 10 seconds, you have an argument. If you actually watched the entire game, you saw that they were denying any attempts at getting the ball inside. Wide open look on the corner three with 2 guys under the hoop? You absolutely take that shot every single time.
You absolutely have a walk on take a 3 when your down 1? Are you actually serious??? Its not like it was wide open...he had a guy in his face as he released it.
This team is full of guys who are hesitant to make a move. Definitely hard to watch.
I would rather have Thomas take that shot than Blue and his hitch which is how I think the play was intended. still... this was a terrible loss in a no win situation but we have to do better than that. This is supposed to be a Big East team against good Horizon League team. Although they should are in the top two of their league, we should have safely won tonight. No questions. Things may or may not have gone our way, but a good squad should win that game. We were not a good squad tonight.
Quote from: KC_Warrior on December 19, 2012, 09:15:27 PM
Exactly. What has Jake shown us that tells you he can hit that shot? I understand his reputation is that of a shooter but nothing he's done this season has shown me he's capable of hitting a buzzer-beating 3 for the win.
Ok...so where was the go-to look on the court at that time that was better than JT's shot? There's no way that ball was getting in down low. Are we sold that Junior or Van are automatic considering where they were on the court?
The ball came to Jake. He took the shot. I'm glad he did because it shows he DOES still have confidence, even if it isn't falling.
Guys, it's one game. Granted, one we should have won, but still just one game. We'll beat LSU on Saturday, we'll make the tournament. Write it down, lock it up.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 19, 2012, 09:10:23 PM
If you only watched the last 10 seconds, you have an argument. If you actually watched the entire game, you saw that they were denying any attempts at getting the ball inside. Wide open look on the corner three with 2 guys under the hoop? You absolutely take that shot every single time.
I strongly disagree, especially with our squad. I would rather have seen the Canadian drive to the basket and draw a foul, or drive and dish for an easier shot. Anything other than putting the game in the hands of the walk-on beyond the arc.
If the loss wasn't bad enough, several people on Twitter are suggesting Marquette walked off the court without shaking hands with UWGB. I sure hope that's not true.
Bad shot. Pretty good look at the end and it didn't fall. Sucks to lose but GB played a good game and great d and we didn't get anything going because of it. ^Agreed KC
A tough road loss. I'd really like to see that last sequence but I suppose I won't get the chance. Credit to Brian for a good gameplan. Sorry we won't be able to schedule you anymore.
Quote from: TexMex on December 19, 2012, 09:22:28 PM
I strongly disagree, especially with our squad. I would rather have seen the Canadian drive to the basket and draw a foul, or drive and dish for an easier shot. Anything other than putting the game in the hands of the walk-on beyond the arc.
I don't mind the look, I mind that Thomas is one of our players in on a last possession to win the game. Is Buzz just afraid to play the kids or is the roster that weak?
Quote from: THEultimateWARRIOR on December 19, 2012, 09:15:50 PM
You absolutely have a walk on take a 3 when your down 1? Are you actually serious??? Its not like it was wide open...he had a guy in his face as he released it.
This team is full of guys who are hesitant to make a move. Definitely hard to watch.
Didn't see it, but any player on the floor can take their shot in the flow of the offense. And a three point shot by Thomas is in the flow of the offense.
There wasn't anyone to really go to in that situation. I can't remember too many shots Jamil took in the second half. He was tentative. Gardner is our best option, but he was getting quadruple teamed on every touch. I don't hate the shot by Jake. Never should have gotten there. Junior seems to be the only one who wants to penetrate against a zone. Even though he had 5 turnovers, I'd prefer that over lazy passes around the perimeter.
How about a drive to try and get the foul? If its not there kick it out to an open guy. We had two possessions and could not get it done. Very upsetting.
Vanders miss on the front end of a one and one killed us.
Quote from: THEultimateWARRIOR on December 19, 2012, 09:36:05 PM
How about a drive to try and get the foul? If its not there kick it out to an open guy. We had two possessions and could not get it done. Very upsetting.
Vanders miss on the front end of a one and one killed us.
Paint touches?
Quote from: THEultimateWARRIOR on December 19, 2012, 09:36:05 PMHow about a drive to try and get the foul? If its not there kick it out to an open guy. We had two possessions and could not get it done. Very upsetting.
Considering Green Bay got to the line more than twice as often as we did, including Sykes ALONE making as many FTs as we took, I really don't think "try and get the foul" was the answer. They weren't giving us anything that wasn't really blatantly bad down low. And how was the drive and kick working? Who would the ball have gone to? Jamil, who seemed afraid to take a shot in the second half? Vander, who may have the most maligned shooting touch in the history of Marquette basketball? Or Jake, who got the look and missed.
It was a good look. It didn't fall. That's it.
Hopefully, Todd Mayo's mother is on her way to Milwaukee right now.
I just hope if and when Todd does get back, people realize that based on last year, there is a 66.7% chance Todd would have missed that shot last night too. He's not a cure-all. Hopefully he helps by giving us another option, but let's not make him out to be DJO+2".
When Buzz called time out with 11 seconds left and we're down by 1, we thought for sure that he was drawing up a play calling for Junior or Blue to penetrate for a layup for the basket or at least draw a foul or Gardner or Wilson would get the rebound. But, no he called for Thomas to shoot and miss. Thomas has made a basket that counted all year. Why count on him in this situation? It was a bad call by Buzz and cost us the game. Thomas has earned a spot at the end of the bench from now on. Not only is he an offensive liability, but, will killed on defense by GB's guards.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 20, 2012, 07:47:39 AM
When Buzz called time out with 11 seconds left and we're down by 1, we thought for sure that he was drawing up a play calling for Junior or Blue to penetrate for a layup for the basket or at least draw a foul or Gardner or Wilson would get the rebound. But, no he called for Thomas to shoot and miss. Thomas has made a basket that counted all year.
Pretty sure the plan was probably for Thomas to shoot and make the shot. Assuming you meant Thomas has [not] made a basket that counted all year, he did have a pretty big put back against Butler in Maui in the final seconds. That aside, he has not fulfilled the crucial role he is supposed to be playing as an outside threat. I have to believe his shot will come, but suspect he won't have nearly as many opportunities once Todd is back.
I wouldn't write off Jake just yet. Let's not forget he had a pretty clutch put back and free throw against Butler to keep us in the game.
The biggest issue for me, strictly based on listening to the game, was clock management. Being down 1 and having the last possession, we should have attacked the basket and look to get a shot off with around 10 sec left. That leaves time for a potential offensive rebound and second shot, or the opportunity to foul and get an extra possession to end the game with a chance to win/force OT.
Our best option to hit that shot was standing on the other sideline...Wardle.
Butler's walk on beat IU. Just sayin'. Look, nobody hit a thing in the second half. Not a jumper, not free throws, nothing. 16 pts in a half against UWGB. A wide open look from a guy who has a reputation for being able to hit a shot. If Blue had taken it to the rack and gotten fouled and then missed the free throws. Or Jamil missing another 15 ft j. Or Gardner slowly getting his shot off and missing. Are any of these truly a better option? The execution to get an open look was fine. He missed the shot. It happens. This game was lost by not getting Lockett or JWilson or Blue the ball at the foul line against that zone. That has been how MU has beat zones under Buzz. Wes/Lazar/JFB/Jae/DJO get the ball at the foul line, the zone moves, the ball gets moved faster leading to a good look. This team isn't doing that yet.
I did not have a problem with Thomas taking the last shot. What I had a problem with is deciding to take the last shot. We got the ball on a rebound with 30 seconds to go and ran the clock down to nothing hoping to hit a last shot for the win. We should of shot much sooner and then fouled to extend the game, if we did not score.
Quote from: bilsu on December 20, 2012, 08:48:26 AM
I did not have a problem with Thmas taking the last shot. What I had a problem with is deciding to take the last shot. We got the ball on a rebound with 30 seconds to go and ran the clock down to nothing hoping to hit a last shot for the win. We should of shot much sooner and then fouled to extend the game, if we did not score.
Head scratcher for me too. Only two things I can think of why: 1) on the road you go for a W or 2) Buzz called time out or two hoping Wardle would switch to man defense so Vander could run an Iso.
One thing to keep in mind, UWGB played an effective 2-3 zone almost the entire game.
MU couldn't drive against it at all.
I don't know why anybody expects MU to magically be able to drive the ball in the last 10 seconds. UWGB's zone was specifically set up to prevent that. MU didn't even score 50 points! The zone worked.
MU got a good open look from a guy that can supposedly shoot (we've all heard about him in practice and seen him in scrimmages). I'm fine with the play call.
Also, I know Buzz like to dribble into a zone, but I'd like to see some more passing and high post. I know it's not what they traditionally play, but I think they might need a modified approach with this group. Jamil in the high post. DeDe down low. Vander and Trent on the wings. See if they can run a little high/low, or get some baseline drives.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 20, 2012, 09:01:27 AM
One thing to keep in mind, UWGB played an effective 2-3 zone almost the entire game.
MU couldn't drive against it at all.
I don't know why anybody expects MU to magically be able to drive the ball in the last 10 seconds. UWGB's zone was specifically set up to prevent that. MU didn't even score 50 points! The zone worked.
MU got a good open look from a guy that can supposedly shoot (we've all heard about him in practice and seen him in scrimmages). I'm fine with the play call.
Amen. At the end of the day this team won't do crap if Vander and Junior lay eggs in the same game. They had limited driving opportunities against the zone....
And...it is ridiculous that people are ripping Jake Thomas - have a 3 point shooting contest on this team and it isn't even a contest - Jake wins it going away. We couldn't get squat down low so what are you going to do? I'd much rather see Jake launch a 3 than Vander or Junior. The shot was a pretty good look, and was on line..rimmed out...it happens.
Quote from: Ners on December 20, 2012, 09:36:51 AM
Amen. At the end of the day this team won't do crap if Vander and Junior lay eggs in the same game. They had limited driving opportunities against the zone....
And...it is ridiculous that people are ripping Jake Thomas - have a 3 point shooting contest on this team and it isn't even a contest - Jake wins it going away. We couldn't get squat down low so what are you going to do? I'd much rather see Jake launch a 3 than Vander or Junior. The shot was a pretty good look, and was on line..rimmed out...it happens.
Agreed. Saw the replay and that was a perfect look.
Who do you want to take the last shot? Who on the team looks like they want to take the last shot? The fact that there aren't any clear cut answers explains a lot.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 20, 2012, 07:39:57 AM
I just hope if and when Todd does get back, people realize that based on last year, there is a 66.7% chance Todd would have missed that shot last night too. He's not a cure-all. Hopefully he helps by giving us another option, but let's not make him out to be DJO+2".
Unless of course he was 0-2 on the night from long range.....then odds would be in his and our favor. ;)
Quote from: KC_Warrior on December 19, 2012, 09:24:08 PM
If the loss wasn't bad enough, several people on Twitter are suggesting Marquette walked off the court without shaking hands with UWGB. I sure hope that's not true.
About half the team did, incl. Vander. Jamil and Jake stayed on and shook hands I know, but the GB players were jumping around like they won the super bowl when they were supposed to be shaking hands, so the blame goes both ways. I'm not saying they shouldn't have celebrated, but wait until after you shake hands.
I did not shake the hand of the Green Bay fan sitting next to me.
I'd love to see what the response would have been had Jake's shot rimmed in instead of rimming out. Something tells me no one would have complained about who took the shot if it he made it.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 21, 2012, 01:25:26 PM
I'd love to see what the response would have been had Jake's shot rimmed in instead of rimming out. Something tells me no one would have complained about who took the shot if it he made it.
Exactly.
But, Thomas didn't make it and he had missed several other open shots during the game. With the one exception of the put back, he has shown that he cannot be counted on in the clutch. He has earned a long seat on the bench and will have no scholarship next year.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 21, 2012, 08:42:16 PM
But, Thomas didn't make it and he had missed several other open shots during the game. With the one exception of the put back, he has shown that he cannot be counted on in the clutch. He has earned a long seat on the bench and will have no scholarship next year.
What a silly statement ;D. Prior to the UWGB loss, we had only had one game that really came down to "in the clutch" moments, and that was the Butler where Jake in fact showed that he can be counted on in the clutch. Every other game we played was decided by 8+ points.
So where are all these "in the clutch" opportunities he missed that others succeeded in? Because from what I've seen this year, Jake is responsible for the only true clutch play we've had all year. Unless you count Junior's lay-in against UW.
Wednesday night, I finally got a chance to see my beloved Warriors in the flesh (first time since watching them get trounced by Alabama in the NCAA's a few years back in SD or Anaheim. I've forgotten), and I only had to travel 55 miles to GB to do so. The place was packed - with a very sizeable number of MUMUs in the house. So, what did I see? I saw an undermanned team with only 8 players dressed take it to a an almost full team of vastly more talented players for a full 40 minutes. Those 8 players played zone (2-3 at times, 1-2-2 at other times), denying the paint and forcing our boys to shoot from outside. I saw a puzzling display of a team not playing to its strengths (speed, quickness, depth), but instead playing into whatever strengths/chances the undermanned opponent possessed (zone, short bench, deliberate). One could only scratch one's head as MU repeatedly played into the other's hands. Now I'm no coach, but even I could see that the longer we ineffectually tried to shoot over the packed in zone, forced the ball into the post, and refused to apply full court defensive pressure, the more confident the Phoenix became. I wouldn't say Buzz got out coached, because it was hard to see evidence of any coaching taking place. He sure called a lot of timeouts, but not sure the results showed so very much. As mentioned by many others, I was surprised and disappointed that our team lacked any fire, any toughness. We got manhandled, and frankly, the rest of the season will be very long and unpleasant, if this game is any indication.
I must say, the better team won Wednesday, dang it.
Quote from: wildbillsb on December 21, 2012, 09:27:57 PM
Wednesday night, I finally got a chance to see my beloved Warriors in the flesh (first time since watching them get trounced by Alabama in the NCAA's a few years back in SD or Anaheim. I've forgotten), and I only had to travel 55 miles to GB to do so. The place was packed - with a very sizeable number of MUMUs in the house. So, what did I see? I saw an undermanned team with only 8 players dressed take it to a an almost full team of vastly more talented players for a full 40 minutes. Those 8 players played zone (2-3 at times, 1-2-2 at other times), denying the paint and forcing our boys to shoot from outside. I saw a puzzling display of a team not playing to its strengths (speed, quickness, depth), but instead playing into whatever strengths/chances the undermanned opponent possessed (zone, short bench, deliberate). One could only scratch one's head as MU repeatedly played into the other's hands. Now I'm no coach, but even I could see that the longer we ineffectually tried to shoot over the packed in zone, forced the ball into the post, and refused to apply full court defensive pressure, the more confident the Phoenix became. I wouldn't say Buzz got out coached, because it was hard to see evidence of any coaching taking place. He sure called a lot of timeouts, but not sure the results showed so very much. As mentioned by many others, I was surprised and disappointed that our team lacked any fire, any toughness. We got manhandled, and frankly, the rest of the season will be very long and unpleasant, if this game is any indication.
I must say, the better team won Wednesday, dang it.
Please stop going to MU games ;D