when Xavier, Butler and possibly Dayton leave? That hurts revenue per school quite a bit and I'd imagine that they'd be hunting for replacements in new markets.
Are we setting off dominos of conference poaching for?
Probably the same place they got VCU from...the CAA. Although in looking at those schools, VCU might decide that it's best to go back there instead.
Or they could grab a couple Horizon schools like Detroit or Valpo. (Yuck.)
All the more reason to go to 12. I saw on the VCU board they want the A-10 to go for Creighton and some others. I'd rather just take VCU and Creighton now, assuming Gonzaga is saying no.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on December 18, 2012, 08:48:53 AM
when Xavier, Butler and possibly Dayton leave? That hurts revenue per school quite a bit and I'd imagine that they'd be hunting for replacements in new markets.
Are we setting off dominos of conference poaching for?
Who cares what happens to the A-10.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 18, 2012, 09:01:08 AM
All the more reason to go to 12. I saw on the VCU board they want the A-10 to go for Creighton and some others. I'd rather just take VCU and Creighton now, assuming Gonzaga is saying no.
How can Gonzaga work being 1200 miles away from all the other schools? St. Marys does not fix this problem as they are 800 miles in the other direction.
Also C7+ schools are do not have large athletic budgets, not to be confused with the B1G. So, how does Seton Hall justify sending Women's field hockey to Spokane every year?
I'm all for Gonzaga being invited in I'm just wondering, in this case, if logistics prevent it from happening.
Thoughts?
I can't see why Creighton would be attracted to the A10 now. The Missouri Valley is a better conference in a more immediate location.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 18, 2012, 08:56:59 AM
Probably the same place they got VCU from...the CAA. Although in looking at those schools, VCU might decide that it's best to go back there instead.
Or they could grab a couple Horizon schools like Detroit or Valpo. (Yuck.)
The could also look at OVC schools (Belmont, Murray State), Davidson and College of Charleston from the Southern or Western Kentucky from the Sun Belt, among others.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 18, 2012, 09:05:38 AM
How can Gonzaga work being 1200 miles away from all the other schools? St. Marys does not fix this problem as they are 800 miles in the other direction.
Also C7+ schools are do not have large athletic budgets, not to be confused with the B1G. So, how does Seton Hall justify sending Women's field hockey to Spokane every year?
I'm all for Gonzaga being invited in I'm just wondering, in this case, if logistics prevent it from happening.
Thoughts?
Gonzaga would be a logistical challenge, no doubt.
However, not every school plays them in every sport, each year.
In soccer for instance, a school might play Gonzaga once per year, or even every other year. In that scenario, they would only go to Spokane every 2 or maybe even every 4 years.
It's a challenge, but it's not unreasonable.
The real challenge would be for Gonzaga, who would be making very long trips every time they play on the road. Honestly, it might not be worth it for them.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 18, 2012, 09:16:57 AM
Gonzaga would be a logistical challenge, no doubt.
However, not every school plays them in every sport, each year.
In soccer for instance, a school might play Gonzaga once per year, or even every other year. In that scenario, they would only go to Spokane every 2 or maybe even every 4 years.
It's a challenge, but it's not unreasonable.
The real challenge would be for Gonzaga, who would be making very long trips every time they play on the road. Honestly, it might not be worth it for them.
Man it would be cool if it could work, though.... not sure what they make right now per year but if they could conceivably get $1.5m from joining the C7 conference it seems they'd be able to make it work.
In basketball specifically they already travel out east for much of their non-con schedule.... with a stronger conference schedule they could play more local games in non-con.
If I'm Gonzaga I don't know how many stronger opportunities will come along for them.
I must not pay close enough attention to the A-10 (ha!) but I just realized that Butler plays their first A-10 game January 9th... most likely weeks after they announce their departure for the C7.
Blows to be the A-10.... entering this season gaining Butler, and before the conference schedule even begins they've lost Xavier & Butler.
I could see CAA as being the best fit, though it might get to the point of being a lateral move. George Mason, Drexel, Delaware, ODU would probably be on par with the A-10 remains if they lose the top 2-3.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on December 18, 2012, 09:38:44 AM
I must not pay close enough attention to the A-10 (ha!) but I just realized that Butler plays their first A-10 game January 9th... most likely weeks after they announce their departure for the C7.
Blows to be the A-10.... entering this season gaining Butler, and before the conference schedule even begins they've lost Xavier & Butler.
Though X and Butler did get to meet in "non-conference" play, with X blowing out Butler. The joys of re-alignment; West Virginia and Oklahoma also met in a "same conference but doesn't count in the conference standings game" during a preseason tournament.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on December 18, 2012, 09:32:48 AM
Man it would be cool if it could work, though.... not sure what they make right now per year but if they could conceivably get $1.5m from joining the C7 conference it seems they'd be able to make it work.
In basketball specifically they already travel out east for much of their non-con schedule.... with a stronger conference schedule they could play more local games in non-con.
If I'm Gonzaga I don't know how many stronger opportunities will come along for them.
I guess if the Zags figure that they can afford charter flights for all of the teams by upgrading their conference revenue, then the logistics become pretty easy. Extra hours on a charter flight are no big deal.
Extra hours connecting through 2 different airports to get to a Tuesday night water polo match would be pretty frustrating and tough on the student athletes.
Quote from: hairyworthen on December 18, 2012, 09:02:20 AM
Who cares what happens to the A-10.
We should care, because one of the important aspects of the new conference will be trying to establish itself as THE pre-eminent, non-BCS basketball conference. A-10 is the biggest existing competition to that. In a dog-eat-dog world, we want the TV networks and casual fans alike to look at the new conference as a wholly viable alternative to the power 5 conferences for basketball. If the A-10 is viewed, however, as a comparable conference to the new conference, it will be harder to establish that as part of the brand.
Quote from: MUMountin on December 18, 2012, 10:00:44 AM
We should care, because one of the important aspects of the new conference will be trying to establish itself as THE pre-eminent, non-BCS basketball conference. A-10 is the biggest existing competition to that. In a dog-eat-dog world, we want the TV networks and casual fans alike to look at the new conference as a wholly viable alternative to the power 5 conferences for basketball. If the A-10 is viewed, however, as a comparable conference to the new conference, it will be harder to establish that as part of the brand.
It won't be. If we take off the top of the A10, no one will view it like a serious competitor.
Quote from: MUMountin on December 18, 2012, 10:00:44 AM
We should care, because one of the important aspects of the new conference will be trying to establish itself as THE pre-eminent, non-BCS basketball conference. A-10 is the biggest existing competition to that. In a dog-eat-dog world, we want the TV networks and casual fans alike to look at the new conference as a wholly viable alternative to the power 5 conferences for basketball. If the A-10 is viewed, however, as a comparable conference to the new conference, it will be harder to establish that as part of the brand.
I meant in terms of schools bolting from the a-10. I could care less if the new c-7 conference poaches 2 or 3 of the top schools from the a-10 and it implodes. If that happens, that conference is in rough shape. I guess I do not see the a-10 as competition to the new conference unless you believe udpride.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 18, 2012, 10:03:39 AM
It won't be. If we take off the top of the A10, no one will view it like a serious competitor.
I would have just stopped after "no one will view it," but that works, too.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 18, 2012, 09:05:38 AM
How can Gonzaga work being 1200 miles away from all the other schools? St. Marys does not fix this problem as they are 800 miles in the other direction.
I think it should be Gonzaga's call. I don't think it's too much to ask any of our teams to trip out there once a year. They seem most likely to turn the revenue dial up both in terms of TV rights and NCAA shares. If they think it's feasible, go for them. If not, move on.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 18, 2012, 10:54:19 AM
I think it should be Gonzaga's call. I don't think it's too much to ask any of our teams to trip out there once a year. They seem most likely to turn the revenue dial up both in terms of TV rights and NCAA shares. If they think it's feasible, go for them. If not, move on.
Agreed. Way too much is being made of the travel.
It may be shocking for some to learn that MU's teams already travel frequently outside the Midwest.
Women's tennis this season has matches in Orlando, Tampa, Irvine, Calif. and San Diego.
Women's hoops has non-conference games in College Station, Tex., and Brookings, S.D.
Men's lacrosse has matches in Jacksonville, Macon, Ga., Colorado Springs and Denver.
Men's tennis has matches in Boise, Austin, Dallas and Tulsa.
Women's lacrosse has games in Los Angeles, San Diego, Moraga, Calif., and Rock Hill, S.C.
Travel may be an issue for Gonzaga. But having a few teams travel to Spokane once a year, and possibly less, shouldn't be a deal killer for anyone else.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on December 18, 2012, 08:48:53 AM
when Xavier, Butler and possibly Dayton leave? That hurts revenue per school quite a bit and I'd imagine that they'd be hunting for replacements in new markets.
Are we setting off dominos of conference poaching for?
Depending on the how the contract was written, the revenues of the remaining schools may actually go up. Fewer entities to split the pie with. Again, totally depends on how the contract was written. If the contract has a clause where the departure of specific schools or even quantity of schools is considered a material change that forces a change in fees, or even void of contract, that's one thing. If it doesn't have a clause of that nature, then they could stand to make more per school if they don't add any members to replace those that left.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 18, 2012, 10:03:39 AM
It won't be. If we take off the top of the A10, no one will view it like a serious competitor.
Certainly, if we take Xavier and Butler--the cream of the A-10 currently--that goes a long way towards knocking down the A-10. But, I think part of the point of our decisions now is how could the A-10 reload, and how might that affect the parity between the two leagues. I'd generally prefer to have only 10 teams in the new conference, adding Xavier, Butler, and one other (probably UD because of geography at that point). But, if we do that, and A-10 adds Creighton as a response, maybe convinces Temple to stay if old Big East explodes, VCU continues to stay strong, SLU finds a good replacement for Rick, and St. Joe's experiences a resurgence back to their 03/04 days, the A-10 may not be that far off from the new conference.
Granted, I know that there are a lot of hypotheticals in that scenario, but I think the point is that we are going to have two conferences with similar identities and almost identical geographical footprints both trying to do the same thing. I think it just puts the stress on making strategic decisions to make it clear that the new conference is clearly the number one option, and the A-10 is far behind--not 1a and 1b. That leads me to conclude that it might be best to add Creighton (with SLU) to limit the A-10s top options to reload.
Quote from: MUMountin on December 18, 2012, 11:17:57 AM
Certainly, if we take Xavier and Butler--the cream of the A-10 currently--that goes a long way towards knocking down the A-10. But, I think part of the point of our decisions now is how could the A-10 reload, and how might that affect the parity between the two leagues. I'd generally prefer to have only 10 teams in the new conference, adding Xavier, Butler, and one other (probably UD because of geography at that point). But, if we do that, and A-10 adds Creighton as a response, maybe convinces Temple to stay if old Big East explodes, VCU continues to stay strong, SLU finds a good replacement for Rick, and St. Joe's experiences a resurgence back to their 03/04 days, the A-10 may not be that far off from the new conference.
Another advantage to 10 teams, however. The A-10 still has the bad bottom and will be less profitable than this conference. Therefore if Creighton or UD, VCU, SLU, or St. Joe's does show a strong resurgence the A-10 is basically a farm system for the C7+3. We can bet and hope we pick the best two now to go from 10 to 12, or we can stay at 10 which issues a challenge to those schools that if they demonstrate a strong basketball commitment there's a conference willing to add them.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 18, 2012, 10:54:19 AM
I think it should be Gonzaga's call. I don't think it's too much to ask any of our teams to trip out there once a year. They seem most likely to turn the revenue dial up both in terms of TV rights and NCAA shares. If they think it's feasible, go for them. If not, move on.
It's not Gonzaga's call, since all sport's teams will have to travel. It might be ok for football teams, which play a max. of 1 game per week to travel anywhere for a game. However, many of the other team sports play multiple times per week, and cross country travel does not make sense for those teams. I assume that most on this board realize that most teams do not fly charter, so team travel will be an issue in putting a new conference together.
Quote from: 6746jonesr on December 18, 2012, 12:24:41 PM
It's not Gonzaga's call, since all sport's teams will have to travel. It might be ok for football teams, which play a max. of 1 game per week to travel anywhere for a game. However, many of the other team sports play multiple times per week, and cross country travel does not make sense for those teams. I assume that most on this board realize that most teams do not fly charter, so team travel will be an issue in putting a new conference together.
Per Gonzaga fans, they do charter all of their teams. For the C7 teams, one trip per year isn't any bigger a deal than many non-con games.
Quote from: MUMountin on December 18, 2012, 11:17:57 AM
Certainly, if we take Xavier and Butler--the cream of the A-10 currently--that goes a long way towards knocking down the A-10. But, I think part of the point of our decisions now is how could the A-10 reload, and how might that affect the parity between the two leagues. I'd generally prefer to have only 10 teams in the new conference, adding Xavier, Butler, and one other (probably UD because of geography at that point). But, if we do that, and A-10 adds Creighton as a response, maybe convinces Temple to stay if old Big East explodes, VCU continues to stay strong, SLU finds a good replacement for Rick, and St. Joe's experiences a resurgence back to their 03/04 days, the A-10 may not be that far off from the new conference.
Granted, I know that there are a lot of hypotheticals in that scenario, but I think the point is that we are going to have two conferences with similar identities and almost identical geographical footprints both trying to do the same thing. I think it just puts the stress on making strategic decisions to make it clear that the new conference is clearly the number one option, and the A-10 is far behind--not 1a and 1b. That leads me to conclude that it might be best to add Creighton (with SLU) to limit the A-10s top options to reload.
Creighton isn't going to go to the A10 when the MVC is a better conference. And I would guess that VCU might actually go back to the CAA, because what's left in the A10 isn't very good.