From the GTown board...go big or go home. I actually like this move and make-up from the get go to get the best media deal and enough good teams for all Olympic sports (an issue with only 8-10 schools). I am sure this is mostly board speculation, but we keep hearing these schools mentioned one way or the other, including the Westies.
14 team league:
East: Gtown, Nova, Providence, SH, SJU, Dayton, Xavier
West: MU, DePaul, St. Louis, Creighton, Butler, Gonzaga, St. Mary's
http://hoyatalk2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=26380&page=14
Drop the divisions, Dayton and SLU. Then sign some contracts.
Quote from: PTM on December 15, 2012, 09:37:50 AM
Drop the divisions, Dayton and SLU. Then sign some contracts.
Divisions help the Westies with travel...SLU unites the Jesuits' hoop network and both bump up the other Olympic sports. In division play, play the other six twice, and six of the east division once (3 home, 3 away) with one rotating miss for 18 games.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 15, 2012, 09:57:31 AM
Divisions help the Westies with travel...SLU unites the Jesuits' hoop network and both bump up the other Olympic sports. In division play, play the other six twice, and six of the east division once (3 home, 3 away) with one rotating miss for 18 games.
I understand the points of the the divisions, I just hate the idea. I especially hate geographic locations, I'd rather follow the B1G on this and split it up differently. What I really hate is some Crean-esque jerkface is going to start hanging banners about winning the Big Priest East division or vice-versa. That's what I really hate about divisions. Then we start talking about the West being stronger than the East, yadda yadda, bubble team, yadda yadda.
I just wanted to get Dayton out of the conference. Drop Dayton and no divisions. I like SLU, and would regularly make the trip to STL.
Looks like a very plausible scenario - though would prefer to be in the East division looking at those teams - but if you go divisions, you have to have some marquee value in both divisions and we, along with Gonzaga, and Butler would be the Big 3 of the West. Whereas in the East you have Gtown, Nova, Xavier, and St. John's...
Quote from: PTM on December 15, 2012, 09:37:50 AM
Drop the divisions, Dayton and SLU. Then sign some contracts.
We want to be like SLU
Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Butler, Creighton, St. Louis, VCU. Keep it at 12 - that's a good line up of olympic sports, especially soccer.
Quote from: Norm on December 15, 2012, 10:40:12 AM
Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Butler, Creighton, St. Louis, VCU. Keep it at 12 - that's a good line up of olympic sports, especially soccer.
This would be my choice as well. I understand the benefit of adding the west coast schools, but I fear their addition would just create another odd mix geographically. Besides, I have to assume that in 5-10 years they will both still be more than willing to join if the new conference is successful and looking to create a larger footprint. I say start small and relatively close to each other, the option to grow should present itself in the future.
Quote from: JTBMU7 on December 15, 2012, 10:53:36 AM
This would be my choice as well. I understand the benefit of adding the west coast schools, but I fear their addition would just create another odd mix geographically
Obviously I have no idea what's really on the table and what's just wishful thinking by fans, but I'm very much of the mindset that you only get one chance to make a first impression.
If there is even a waft of "mid-major" smell to this league at it's official announcement, we're in for a long and bumpy road. With the rumors flying around, it seems like there's almost no way for this new league to do anything but disappoint.
If adding a pretty major BB brand in Gonzaga helps raise the profile in those first few months of buzz, it's probably worth a little bit of geographical instability. It might even be worth subsidizing some West Coast travel.
Blah blah ... in my field almost everything comes down to perception, logic be damned. I think this announcement has to knock it out of the park...
Drop Dayton, add VCU, get it done. I like the idea of some non-Catholics so that it is our athletics and not our religion that defines us.
Quote from: Norm on December 15, 2012, 10:40:12 AM
Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Butler, Creighton, St. Louis, VCU. Keep it at 12 - that's a good line up of olympic sports, especially soccer.
My picks as well. Norm for Big Priest Conference commissioner.
Quote from: chapman on December 15, 2012, 11:42:18 AM
My picks as well. Norm for Big Priest Conference commissioner.
Sweet! I'll keep a suite with an open bar available at MSG for all MUSccop members to enjoy the conference tournament.
Over the last few days of conference talk a crucial fact has been overlooked. Dudes, we've lost Old Dominion for women's field hockey!
Take a long look at 8 and tell me why we need more than this right away. There is no conf championship game so divisions make no sense unless you are going to do away with the tourney idea and just invite the winners of each division for a championchip game. That would not make $ sense.
Georgetown
Marquette
St. Johns
Villanova
Seton Hall
Providence
DePaul
Xavier
If you're going to sell this to the networks, having a few more large markets probably wouldn't hurt. Thus, St. Louis, Butler and Creighton.
What is the most amount of conference games that can be played (18,20, 22)? And what limits this? I would like to be able to play home and home against every team. I think it builds up rivalries the fastest and makes for an even inside the conference SOS.
Quote from: chren21 on December 15, 2012, 01:54:15 PM
Take a long look at 8 and tell me why we need more than this right away.
Because 14 conference games isn't enough?
Quote from: chren21 on December 15, 2012, 01:54:15 PM
Take a long look at 8 and tell me why we need more than this right away. There is no conf championship game so divisions make no sense unless you are going to do away with the tourney idea and just invite the winners of each division for a championchip game. That would not make $ sense.
Georgetown
Marquette
St. Johns
Villanova
Seton Hall
Providence
DePaul
Xavier
At 8 you're trying to sell 63 games including the conference tournament to a network. That's just not much content to give. At 10 you can give them 99 games, or at 12 you're offering them 119 games, and you add a few solid media markets (St Louis, Indianapolis). So a 57% or 89% increase in worthwhile content to offer, by increasing the number of teams by 25% or 50%.
Quote from: 6Under20 on December 15, 2012, 02:30:16 PM
What is the most amount of conference games that can be played (18,20, 22)? And what limits this? I would like to be able to play home and home against every team. I think it builds up rivalries the fastest and makes for an even inside the conference SOS.
At 10 teams you're able to play home-and-home against everybody (18 games). At 11 you're looking at 20 games, 12 at 22, which is impractical for OOC scheduling and an be a deterrent to SOS and RPI for the teams, so if it goes over 10 the benefit of playing everyone twice isn't worth it.
We need to add the strongest programs we can to raise the overall league RPI. That's why we need Gonzaga and St. Mary's in addition to Butler, Creighton and Xavier. That would put us easily in the top 4 conferences in terms of RPI.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 15, 2012, 11:40:55 AM
Drop Dayton, add VCU, get it done. I like the idea of some non-Catholics so that it is our athletics and not our religion that defines us.
Keep Dayton and add VCU and UNLV for 16. The 5 football conferences will be probaly expand to 16 each.
We don't need football schools. Pass on UNLV.
Then Wichita State.
St. John's president said the conference would be 10 or 12 teams. Knock it off with 16 team leagues.
Quote from: muwarrior69 link=topic=34875. msg428658#msg428658 date=1355614252
Then Wichita State.
I'm shocked you would suggest that.
Ya, that's all I got. ;)
Quote from: Heavy Gear on December 15, 2012, 02:42:31 PM
We need to add the strongest programs we can to raise the overall league RPI. That's why we need Gonzaga and St. Mary's in addition to Butler, Creighton and Xavier. That would put us easily in the top 4 conferences in terms of RPI.
THIS!!!
Quote from: chren21 on December 15, 2012, 01:54:15 PM
Take a long look at 8 and tell me why we need more than this right away. There is no conf championship game so divisions make no sense unless you are going to do away with the tourney idea and just invite the winners of each division for a championchip game. That would not make $ sense.
Georgetown
Marquette
St. Johns
Villanova
Seton Hall
Providence
DePaul
Xavier
In my opinion it is because our RPI won't be strong enough as we will have to play 14 or 15 non conference games and it will be difficult to find enough slots. It will be like the old GMC days where we have so many non-conference games it becomes very difficult to keep your strength of schedule.
I'd prefer 10 to 12 conference because it also gives you more stability if one or more want to leave. You need a buffer.
Love the Zags. Great bkb elite program.
Love St. Mary's. Means I can drive to MU games in about an hour.
But NO to both. Not only geographic outliers but the expenses are going to be much higher for the Western BE schools than the Eastern ones.
I'm down for VCU. Dayton. Wichita State. big bkb centers.
Quote from: Norm on December 15, 2012, 10:40:12 AM
Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Butler, Creighton, St. Louis, VCU. Keep it at 12 - that's a good line up of olympic sports, especially soccer.
Agree with above but have Dayton instead of VCU.
Quote from: Heavy Gear on December 15, 2012, 02:42:31 PM
We need to add the strongest programs we can to raise the overall league RPI. That's why we need Gonzaga and St. Mary's in addition to Butler, Creighton and Xavier. That would put us easily in the top 4 conferences in terms of RPI.
This would be my choice, too. Of seemingly available schools, this brings in the cream of the crop from both the west and the heartland to go with the strong east footprint we already have. Get 'er done.
Best teams possible should be the criteria, for the TV contract, national cachet and RPI/tourney purposes. Of the schools being bandied around these five have the highest average Sagarin rating over the last 12 years:
Gonzaga - 86.10
Xavier - 84.37
Butler - 82.15
Creighton - 81.98
VCU - 80.72
For comparison sake, MU is at 84.72 over the same time period. Saint Mary's is right behind VCU at 80.43, so if we want to add a travel partner for Gonzaga and/or limit it to private schools, that is an acceptable tradeoff IMO. For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone wants SLU (77.90). Here's where I got my data from:
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/a-smart-breakaway-for-big-east-basketball-schools/#more-37883 (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/a-smart-breakaway-for-big-east-basketball-schools/#more-37883)
Quote from: Avenue Commons on December 15, 2012, 06:46:14 PM
Agree with above but have Dayton instead of VCU.
The advantage to that would be having all private schools. We could then call the conference the Big Privates and say we are a Big Private member.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on December 15, 2012, 07:00:48 PM
Best teams possible should be the criteria, for the TV contract, national cachet and RPI/tourney purposes. Of the schools being bandied around these five have the highest average Sagarin rating over the last 12 years:
Gonzaga - 86.10
Xavier - 84.37
Butler - 82.15
Creighton - 81.98
VCU - 80.72
For comparison sake, MU is at 84.72 over the same time period. Saint Mary's is right behind VCU at 80.43, so if we want to add a travel partner for Gonzaga and/or limit it to private schools, that is an acceptable tradeoff IMO. For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone wants SLU (77.90). Here's where I got my data from:
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/a-smart-breakaway-for-big-east-basketball-schools/#more-37883 (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/a-smart-breakaway-for-big-east-basketball-schools/#more-37883)
Re: SLU, It's a Catholic school in the midwest with a commitment to growing its basketball program.
Good for them. Let them build up in the A10. We don't owe them anything, and they will drag down the conference RPI in the meantime.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on December 15, 2012, 07:00:48 PM
Best teams possible should be the criteria, for the TV contract, national cachet and RPI/tourney purposes. Of the schools being bandied around these five have the highest average Sagarin rating over the last 12 years:
Gonzaga - 86.10
Xavier - 84.37
Butler - 82.15
Creighton - 81.98
VCU - 80.72
For comparison sake, MU is at 84.72 over the same time period. Saint Mary's is right behind VCU at 80.43, so if we want to add a travel partner for Gonzaga and/or limit it to private schools, that is an acceptable tradeoff IMO. For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone wants SLU (77.90). Here's where I got my data from:
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/a-smart-breakaway-for-big-east-basketball-schools/#more-37883 (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/a-smart-breakaway-for-big-east-basketball-schools/#more-37883)
St. Louis TV market is larger than any of the 5 you mention.
SLU is not one of the schools I'm digging, but you wonder why they'd be considered and that's a major reason why.
Yeah, but no one in St. Louis even cares about them. They struggle to break into the top 100 in attendance every year. Don't you think basketball fans, even people in St. Louis perhaps, would rather watch Gonzaga or VCU over St. Louis? And now that Majerus is gone (RIP) I think any momentum the program has shown will be lost. As someone else said, SLU stinks of mid-major, and we just don't need that in this conference.
If Gonzaga was willing to go it alone so to speak, I'd take VCU over St. Mary's. Imagine a VCU-Butler conference game or games every season, especially in the conference tourney in MSG.
Agreed. Our reason for leaving was for basketball, so we need to make decisions based on basketball, not TV markets or religious affiliation.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on December 15, 2012, 06:41:22 PMBut NO to both. Not only geographic outliers but the expenses are going to be much higher for the Western BE schools than the Eastern ones.
If they come as basketball-only, Gonzaga flies to all their games. Expenses will be higher, but what does their WCC television contract get them? Is it even $200K per year? They'd be multiplying that at least five-fold, if not ten.
We have to have Creighton. I want revenge for them upsetting us at home in the early 70's using what Al called the "Creighton delay".
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 16, 2012, 08:04:18 AM
If they come as basketball-only, Gonzaga flies to all their games. Expenses will be higher, but what does their WCC television contract get them? Is it even $200K per year? They'd be multiplying that at least five-fold, if not ten.
And for the other schools, we already have to fly to USF every other year. How is flying to the West Coast all that different? An extra hour...tops?