I've been doing a ton of chatting with a fellow alum about where we go to find some additional teams to build up a new Big East with a traditional basketball focus.
I think the Group of 7 should focus on making the biggest and baddest splash possible. Something to grab some TV dollars and take advantage of the greed of the football schools. I believe that the ACC is the next conference to be raided after the Big East/Conference USA mashup dissolves. I think we need to be standing outside two campuses as the bullets fly offering a safe haven. I'm willing to be bold, very bold.
I think the G7 should walk in to Winston-Salem, NC and sit down with the trustees at the third smallest FBS school in the country. A school that has 2 conference championships since 1888 and should be playing in the FCS. A school that is going to be left behind in the ACC and has a richer basketball tradition than football tradition. I think the Wake Forest Demon Deacons should be the first salvo in the bid to build the best basketball conference in the country.
But I don't want to stop there. I want the white whale. I want to hunt down the other small, private, terrible football school. I want the school run by their basketball team. The one in which the basketball coach has way, way more power. I want to sit outside their historic on-campus arena and watch as every other football school is scooped up. I want to be there when their choices are Conference USA/Big East and the real Big East. I want to whisper in their ear about our new conference and the potential to be a FCS power. I want Duke and I'm not afraid to say it.
The ACC is going to be on life support soon. There are too many large state schools and high end research schools ripe for the taking from the Big 10, Big 12, and SEC. By my count Florida State, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and North Carolina State are ready to take the money and run in new markets for the big 3. North Carolina and Duke are tied at the hip right up until NC State pulls a Texas A&M on Carolina's Texas.
I want Wake. But I really want that white whale and I believe that the crumbling ACC could provide our opportunity. Is anyone else as crazy as I am?
Not quite as far fetched as one would think. The main question is:
Does Duke get invited to the football party? Which brings them the football $$...
If not, they would likely be willing. Im sure they are assuming at this point that they(Duke) will have a seat at the Big Boy table however.
Admittedly I am not a frequent poster to scoop but this is just too much. Hutch are you some kind of "insider" that has information that we do not, or are you just talking out of your giggy? Why in the world would a school like Duke, who does have a terrible football program, give up that revenue someone would surely give them just to welcome them in for basketball reasons? What better conference exposure than to be on national TV every night with their biggest cheerleader Dukie V spewing Duke and ND garbage?
As long as the ACC are willing to "subsidize" Duke and Wake football, they're not going anywhere. But at some point, the greed of the larger, public institutions (prodded by their friends at ESPN) will ask the question of why some of these schools who take the football money aren't doing anything meaningful to contribute to football. It may not be next year, but 10 years down the road when new sources of revenue are being sourced... perhaps.
If that were to happen (not saying it would, though)... whatever the G7 evolves into becomes the white whale for Duke, Wake, IU, etc.
It's been reported by multiple sources, multiple times, that only the top 20-25 college football programs can support themselves (breakeven or make a profit). The rest run in the red, making the Athletic Departments run in the red - or use other sports to help them breakeven (I'd be willing to bet Duke falls into this category).
These bottom feeder programs like Wake Forest, Duke, Northwestern and Georgia Tech would love the money of moving to a new conference. But realistically, like everyone else that gets a raise in the real world, how soon does that just become part of the new budget and the same cycle of football loosing money gets repeated.
These institutions love the prestige of their football programs, but are drowning in red ink and under the enormous fundraising efforts they need to preform each year. Is this enough for them to cut football? Not sure, but it might be the tipping point.
Here's where I'm coming from...the football schools are going to seek out the best $$ opportunity for them which is eyeballs on the screen. We have no idea what revenue models are going to be out there in the future for a la carte sports viewing. However, I believe that Nick Saban--of all people--is right, the big football conferences are moving towards a 16 team model as opposed to the 12-14 team model. If that occurs, the big 4 conferences of quality 16 teams would be the Pac 12, SEC, Big 10, and Big 12 leaving the ACC out in the cold. The FCS might be a good option. Georgetown and Villanova both play there. But obviously this is all speculation.
However, I have two larger points. If the G7 goes through with the dissolution of the Big East and takes the tradition and name with them out the door, the remaining football schools need homes and if those schools could barely bring in $60 million total in TV revenue, I can't imagine they are that appealing to everyone else. The ACC could survive as a second rate football conference and attempt to get to 16 teams or stay pat and find themselves progressively muscled out of dollars and teams, that's always a possibility. My second point is the larger, more important point:
We need to stop acting like we're a mid-tier school because we don't have football. We need to stop aspiring to be Butler. We are Marquette. A brand with history. A brand with tradition. We have the same number of national titles as Georgetown and Villanova--yet they act big time. We should act big time because we are. We shouldn't be a stepping stone for coaches and a measuring stick for the mid-major team in our own market. We should be a destination and a team that others aspire to be. We need to go big or just consign ourselves to the mediocrity of the Horizon League. We need to be better. And grabbing a Wake or a Duke from a world that doesn't want them is something that needs an honest discussion.
Quote from: lurch91 on December 11, 2012, 11:39:41 AM
These bottom feeder programs like Wake Forest, Duke, Northwestern and Georgia Tech would love the money of moving to a new conference. But realistically, like everyone else that gets a raise in the real world, how soon does that just become part of the new budget and the same cycle of football loosing money gets repeated.
These institutions love the prestige of their football programs, but are drowning in red ink and under the enormous fundraising efforts they need to preform each year. Is this enough for them to cut football? Not sure, but it might be the tipping point.
Small point, but I don't think that you can consider Georgia Tech as a bottom-feeder, especially in the same sentence as WF, Duke, Northwestern. They have great football tradition (including being coached by Heisman himself), one national championship in the modern era (1990), several ACC conference/division championships and have produced a decent amount of All-Americans and NFL players (Megatron and Demarius Thomas being the two most notable recent grads). Sure, they aren't likely competing for a national title anytime soon, but I don't think they are quite a "bottom-feeder", and definitely don't see them dropping football.
Quote from: MUMountin on December 11, 2012, 11:54:34 AM
Small point, but I don't think that you can consider Georgia Tech as a bottom-feeder, especially in the same sentence as WF, Duke, Northwestern. They have great football tradition (including being coached by Heisman himself), one national championship in the modern era (1990), several ACC conference/division championships and have produced a decent amount of All-Americans and NFL players (Megatron and Demarius Thomas being the two most notable recent grads). Sure, they aren't likely competing for a national title anytime soon, but I don't think they are quite a "bottom-feeder", and definitely don't see them dropping football.
And for Tech, it's also about a league other than the SEC getting entry into the Atlanta TV market.
Quote from: MUMountin on December 11, 2012, 11:54:34 AM
Small point, but I don't think that you can consider Georgia Tech as a bottom-feeder, especially in the same sentence as WF, Duke, Northwestern. They have great football tradition (including being coached by Heisman himself), one national championship in the modern era (1990), several ACC conference/division championships and have produced a decent amount of All-Americans and NFL players (Megatron and Demarius Thomas being the two most notable recent grads). Sure, they aren't likely competing for a national title anytime soon, but I don't think they are quite a "bottom-feeder", and definitely don't see them dropping football.
Valid point, not being from the south I just have he overwhelming perception they struggle to be relevant. I'd be willing to bet several MAC teams have as many or more pro's in the NFL.
NU a football bottom feeder? Hardly, check again. Besides, 22 million annually from the Big Ten Network ain't chump change.
Quote from: hutchfor3 on December 11, 2012, 11:53:23 AM
Here's where I'm coming from...the football schools are going to seek out the best $$ opportunity for them which is eyeballs on the screen. We have no idea what revenue models are going to be out there in the future for a la carte sports viewing. However, I believe that Nick Saban--of all people--is right, the big football conferences are moving towards a 16 team model as opposed to the 12-14 team model. If that occurs, the big 4 conferences of quality 16 teams would be the Pac 12, SEC, Big 10, and Big 12 leaving the ACC out in the cold. The FCS might be a good option. Georgetown and Villanova both play there. But obviously this is all speculation.
However, I have two larger points. If the G7 goes through with the dissolution of the Big East and takes the tradition and name with them out the door, the remaining football schools need homes and if those schools could barely bring in $60 million total in TV revenue, I can't imagine they are that appealing to everyone else. The ACC could survive as a second rate football conference and attempt to get to 16 teams or stay pat and find themselves progressively muscled out of dollars and teams, that's always a possibility. My second point is the larger, more important point:
We need to stop acting like we're a mid-tier school because we don't have football. We need to stop aspiring to be Butler. We are Marquette. A brand with history. A brand with tradition. We have the same number of national titles as Georgetown and Villanova--yet they act big time. We should act big time because we are. We shouldn't be a stepping stone for coaches and a measuring stick for the mid-major team in our own market. We should be a destination and a team that others aspire to be. We need to go big or just consign ourselves to the mediocrity of the Horizon League. We need to be better. And grabbing a Wake or a Duke from a world that doesn't want them is something that needs an honest discussion.
+1. Maybe 15 years ago we were mid major. We are now big time, we need to act like it. I am loving the attitude shift on this board today. It is like we (this scooper included) all realized that our program, brand, and school are worth something.
Quote from: hutchfor3 on December 11, 2012, 11:22:00 AM
The ACC is going to be on life support soon. There are too many large state schools and high end research schools ripe for the taking from the Big 10, Big 12, and SEC. By my count Florida State, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and North Carolina State are ready to take the money and run in new markets for the big 3. North Carolina and Duke are tied at the hip right up until NC State pulls a Texas A&M on Carolina's Texas.
I'll believe the ACC is on "life support" when I see it. So far, it's not happening.
I dont see Northwestern as a bottom feeder football program at all. Sorry, just had to say it.
I think this post ignores reality. Duke is Duke. We don't go hunting them, they come hunting us. If the ACC starts falling apart and they think we're a good fit, maybe they'll contact us, and if they do, we'll gratefully invite them. But given their current situation and the freshness of the ACC deal that goes for years and years, it won't be until they have no other option that they look at the new Big East as a landing place.
We may as well pursue Indiana...they also have a crap football team and a solid basketball team ::)
Read this before making any other comments regarding Duke or any ACC team leaving for a non-Big 5 conference.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8736544/sec-big-ten-big-12-pac-12-acc-average-91-million-new-playoff-format-sources-say (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8736544/sec-big-ten-big-12-pac-12-acc-average-91-million-new-playoff-format-sources-say)
Those schools aren't going anywhere.
The first Big East hybrid died but a second version could thrive? With even more Catholic schools spread out even more that the old BE that didnt go further west than...Pitt (or ND in the mid-90's)? Perhaps some of you should google the parting shots that the president of BC said on his way to the ACC. No non-Catholic institution is willingly going to join a new conference loaded with Catholic schools. Besides, Wake is Baptist, isnt it? If you've ever spent any time in the south (mid-Atlantic), you would be familiar with the phrase, "Oh....your Catholic, huh?" But Im sure they would love to join a northern conference loaded with Catholics; it's right up their alley. ::)
I think the only way you see current ACC schools join the Catholic 7 is if an ACC school decides to drop football. Possible maybe, but not likely.
Quote from: esard2011 on December 11, 2012, 01:51:33 PM
I dont see Northwestern as a bottom feeder football program at all. Sorry, just had to say it.
But Wakre Forst is? Northwestern has aabout the same winning percentage as Wake Forest since 1956 (when Ara Parseghian was hired by Northwestern).
Northwestern = 0.352
Wake Forest = 0.363
Northwestern has B1G money at it's disposal, but it hasn't equaled wins. The perception of the B1G conference really helps it out. It might not help that Northwestern got beat up by Woody and Bo for years, but even Dennis Green had a 0.182 winning percentage in his term at Northwestern.
Look at the records post 1994. Northwestern football is no longer by any stretch a bottom feeder.
At this frenetic pace? Canada.
In a few years, maybe China.