The premise here is that if a reformulated Big East consisting of Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, Dayton, Xavier, Butler, DePaul, Marquette, Saint Louis, Creighton were to ever lose the Garden for its conference tournament, there is no better alternative than Indianapolis.
The other contenders: Chicago, DC, Philly, Brooklyn
Pros:
Location - Indianapolis and Chicago are closer in proximity to seven schools... DC, Philly, Brooklyn to five. Within driving distance (under 10 hours) for every school. Omaha to DC, Philly and Brooklyn is 17, 18 and 20 hours, respectively.
Economics - Indy is just flat out more affordable than the other cities on just about everything.
Venues - Banker's Life is one of the better NBA arenas in the country and has served as a model for other NBA arenas around the country. And if that wasn't enough, you also have one of the largest convention centers in the Midwest at your disposal.
Practice Facilities - Hinkle, IUPUI, Broadripple HS, Brebeuf, Bishop Chatard, etc.
Hotels - Over 5,600 hotel rooms downtown... everything from a two-star Days Inn to the 5-star Conrad. And unlike the other cities, you don't feel dirty or unsafe staying in a room that's under $100/night.
Parking - $2.00 for 3 hours. $4.00 for 4 hours. All day for $20.00. Try finding game parking in any of the other cities for less than $20.00.
"Walk-up" Attendance - Seriously... is there any place better than Indiana for attracting unaffiliated locals to a basketball game?
Shopping - Circle Center mall... quite literally in the heart of downtown.
Infrastructure - Downtown Indy is designed to host major sporting events. Final Fours, NCAA Regionals/Second Rounds, Big Ten Tourney (and Championship), NBA and NFL games every week, the Super Bowl... all of them pulled off without a hitch and to rave reviews every time. I don't think there's another city that has hosted more major sporting events. The airport is a ten-minute drive away. And the coup de gras...
All of the hotels, venues, restaurants, the mall, etc. are within walking distance of each other.
Cons:
Dining - It is well known that people in Indiana don't patronize restaurants with fewer than 10 locations. That said, you still have high-end places like St. Elmo's, Palomino, Capital Grille, etc., but not a lot of "culture" when it comes to foodie options that can be found in Chicago, Philly, DC and Brooklyn.
Accessibility - Chicago, DC and NYC have direct flights to every school's city. Omaha, Providence, Dayton and Milwaukee would have to connect to get to Indy (although Dayton is a two hour drive, Milwaukee four).
Nightlife - You don't have the underground discotheques and clubs with naked ladies dancing in cages, but you do have your choice of various establishments downtown, on Mass Ave, and in Broadripple that would probably be more suited to the crowd that would attend a conference tournament.
If the new conference picks Indy, it will be a mid-major in three years.
It HAS TO BE in a major media center. MSG is the best option (Barclay's in Brooklyn has the A-10) followed by DC and Philly. Fourth would be Chicago but the B10 already uses the UC.
Indy is a great town for hosting events, it doesn't hold the same cache as NYC, but it is definitely above average.
Fountain Square, Mass Ave and a few other areas help with the foodies. But over all, a solid summary of the city.
Agree with Another.
Indy is good venue, but it doesn't have any punch that makes the media interested. Go back and read the reviews of the Indy Superbowl. Almost universally the media said, I thought it was going to suck, turns out they did a good job, getting around was easy, but there was no real pop. If the media isn't excited you aren't going to get fans excited.
Plus B1G is there every other year and we couldn't go up against them.
I ran in the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon last month and was pleasantly surprised with downtown Indy - affordable, clean, good food and you could walk to everything. Not the energy/excitement of a New York, but I came away impressed.
With the number of players from the Chicaago area in any future configuation of the BE that might be a good pick. Easy air and ground connections and strong media hub. Perhaps a two phase tournament with games in NYC and Chicago, with the title game alternate years in the two cities.
As others have eluded to, you're missing the biggest Cons of all in that there's nothing special about Indy for the players i.e. there's no buzz around the city itself. Sure, it's cheap, it's manageable, the people are friendly and whatever else, but are HS kids out there thinking that they really want to play in the Big East so that they can play on the big stage of Banker's Life Arena? There's no history there. Indy has gotten great reviews from the usually fickle sports media on hosting the Super Bowl, Final Four, etc but I don't see a lot of people headed to Indy on vacation or saying that they'd really like to take in a game at Banker's Life Arena before they die.
To borrow a term from my mother-in-law, there's no pizazz.
To put it in business terms.
Indy is the finance person picking the venue, NYC is the sales guy picking the venue. If we don't really care about the cost, why would we go with the finance person's choice? Who's more likely to attract the big customers and opportunities?
If you have any hope of staying at least somewhat competitive with The Big 5 conf, It has to be MSG which is the most Iconic BBALL venue in US, In by far the biggest city and Media market in the US.
I think that people are picking INDY becuase it would be easier for them to go, I live in Chicago and would be better for me if it was here. But If I was a recruit from chicago or Milwaukee and had the choice or playing a Midwest city for my Conf tournament why wouldn't I go Big 10? Playing in MSG is something every kid would think is Cool. And being able to recruit is all that matter's when it comes to these kinds of things. As soon as you cannot recruit top 100's, the quality of BBALL falls off, interest falls off and REV falls off.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 11, 2012, 09:40:14 AM
As others have eluded to, you're missing the biggest Cons of all in that there's nothing special about Indy for the players i.e. there's no buzz around the city itself. Sure, it's cheap, it's manageable, the people are friendly and whatever else, but are HS kids out there thinking that they really want to play in the Big East so that they can play on the big stage of Banker's Life Arena? There's no history there. Indy has gotten great reviews from the usually fickle sports media on hosting the Super Bowl, Final Four, etc but I don't see a lot of people headed to Indy on vacation or saying that they'd really like to take in a game at Banker's Life Arena before they die.
To borrow a term from my mother-in-law, there's no pizazz.
Seriously?
You really think recruits will be thinking, "Well, Marquette was my top choice, but their conference tournament is in such a boring city...."?
I think giving the players fewer opportunities to get into trouble is a plus.
By the way, aren't we getting a little ahead of ourselves here? We are talking about the tournament location of a non-existent conference in a town that has no schools in the current conversation.
Quote from: warriorchick on December 11, 2012, 10:00:42 AM
Seriously?
You really think recruits will be thinking, "Well, Marquette was my top choice, but their conference tournament is in such a boring city...."?
I think giving the players fewer opportunities to get into trouble is a plus.
By the way, aren't we getting a little ahead of ourselves here? We are talking about the tournament location of a non-existent conference in a town that has no schools in the current conversation.
This is correct. I don't think it directly effects recruiting.
However, in order to keep the perceived value of "new conference" high, they should look for a location with a high perceived value. Indy is the Honda Accord of tournament locations. Practical, respected, well liked.
But, it doesn't have the a high perceived value.
It will be a struggle for "new conference" to not be an afterthought, so getting a premium location is important.
I cannot believe this is even a debate. On one hand you have the most famous arena in sports in the biggest media market in the US vs. the biggest city in the worst state of the great lakes?
Seriously, are you all drunk, high or both who are advocating Indy?
Quote from: mu03eng on December 11, 2012, 09:29:42 AM
Agree with Another.
Indy is good venue, but it doesn't have any punch that makes the media interested. Go back and read the reviews of the Indy Superbowl. Almost universally the media said, I thought it was going to suck, turns out they did a good job, getting around was easy, but there was no real pop. If the media isn't excited you aren't going to get fans excited.
Plus B1G is there every other year and we couldn't go up against them.
It's a good thing that media types world-wide now know that Indy doesn't suck....
Going up against the Big ? every other year is something that only Indy could pull off - it's not something I've contemplated, but it could easily happen if the Wed/Thur games were split between Hinkle and Banker's Life... nevertheless, in the years where the Big ? insists on being in Indy by themselves, you can take the BE tournament to Philly, DC, Chicago, East St. Louis, or wherever.
Of course, let's keep in mind that this is all predicated on the idea that the BE loses the Garden, which isn't likely to happen anytime soon.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 11, 2012, 09:40:14 AM
As others have eluded to, you're missing the biggest Cons of all in that there's nothing special about Indy for the players i.e. there's no buzz around the city itself. Sure, it's cheap, it's manageable, the people are friendly and whatever else, but are HS kids out there thinking that they really want to play in the Big East so that they can play on the big stage of Banker's Life Arena? There's no history there. Indy has gotten great reviews from the usually fickle sports media on hosting the Super Bowl, Final Four, etc but I don't see a lot of people headed to Indy on vacation or saying that they'd really like to take in a game at Banker's Life Arena before they die.
To borrow a term from my mother-in-law, there's no pizazz.
Of course there would be no buzz
around the city, Buzz would already be
in the city.
At Banker's Life, no... there's no history. But where's the history at any other arena (again, MSG is not an option here). And if it's history you're after, the aforementioned Hinkle Fieldhouse probably has more history to it than just about every other NBA arena combined. If MSG is the Lambeau of basketball, then Hinkle is Soldiers Field.
And no... people don't normally decide vacation in Indianapolis. At least not any fewer that those who decide to vacation in Philly or Chicago. DC & NYC, different story. But you're not catering to people who want to take a vacation; you're catering to basketball fans who want to go see a conference tournament.
Screw the media... if you build it, they will come. Big ? gets adequate coverage in Indy, and just as much as they do when they're in Chicago, so the whole "not sexy enough for the media" argument doesn't hold water.
Quote from: mu03eng on December 11, 2012, 09:52:13 AM
To put it in business terms.
Indy is the finance person picking the venue, NYC is the sales guy picking the venue. If we don't really care about the cost, why would we go with the finance person's choice? Who's more likely to attract the big customers and opportunities?
Make no mistake, conference realignment is
all about the money. And who are these big customers? High school recruits who will only pick a school that plays its tournament on the East Coast? The Georgia Dome is a craphole and Greensboro Coliseum needs a good implosion more than another facelift, but you don't see the SEC or ACC having any recruiting worries. Heck, if any burger boys have the United Center, Wells Fargo or Verizon on their "must-play" list, it's as an NBA player, not college.
Quote from: Chili on December 11, 2012, 10:04:42 AM
I cannot believe this is even a debate. On one hand you have the most famous arena in sports in the biggest media market in the US vs. the biggest city in the worst state of the great lakes?
Seriously, are you all drunk, high or both who are advocating Indy?
Wrong debate, Chili... the whole point here pro-Indy presumes MSG isn't an option.
Quote from: warriorchick on December 11, 2012, 10:00:42 AM
By the way, aren't we getting a little ahead of ourselves here? We are talking about the tournament location of a non-existent conference in a town that has no schools in the current conversation.
Can you think of a better use of an internet message board?
[/quote]
Seriously?
You really think recruits will be thinking, "Well, Marquette was my top choice, but their conference tournament is in such a boring city...."?
I think giving the players fewer opportunities to get into trouble is a plus.
[/quote]
I absolutely think if you have the venue of MSG, the most iconic basketball venue in the most iconic basketball city as a selling point recruits will be in with that. Hell recruits have gone to a school for a lot less "relevant" reason. I don't think it would be the sole reason to land a recruit but it's definitely a plus.
Quote from: warriorchick on December 11, 2012, 10:00:42 AM
Seriously?
You really think recruits will be thinking, "Well, Marquette was my top choice, but their conference tournament is in such a boring city...."?
No but Kevon Looney and Diamond Stone are big time players that want to play at a big time school. Hundreds of reporters go to the Big East tourney
voluntarily because it is easy, it's a 10 minute subway ride from their office. They are not going to spend a week in Indy in March. Period.
So, the new tourney will get a fraction of the attention the BE gets now. It diminishes the schools cache and makes recruiting 5-star players harder.
Bad move. Holding it at the all-state arena is better than Indy.
From a selfish standpoint, this would be awesome for me. Agree with all of the advantages of the city presented, but also that it doesn't have the "wow" factor.
I think in the scheme of things moving the tournament to Indy would not matter much. The loss of marque teams as Syracuse, Pitt and Notre Dame, Louisville and West Virginia matters much more and keeping the garden will not offset that.
If Kemba Walker single-handily won five games in five days to win a Major conference tourney in Indy, it would not be nearly as big a deal.
If a team wins in 6 OTs in front of 8,000 Hoosiers in Indy, no one would care.
Performances on the MSG stage like Walker, can mean attention and a higher draft spot. It can mean millions to that player.
Yes, 5-star recruits understand this.
Indy is the Applebee's of tournament cities.
Yes, MSG is a hallowed venue. But to recruits now and in the future, is MSG that big a deal? I can imagine a scenario where a recruit could care less about MSG and its history and more about Jay-Z and the Barclay's Center. I'm not saying Banker's Life is the Barclay's... I'm just saying I don't think future recruits will care much about "old" MSG.
Quote from: warriorchick on December 11, 2012, 10:00:42 AM
Seriously?
You really think recruits will be thinking, "Well, Marquette was my top choice, but their conference tournament is in such a boring city...."?
I think giving the players fewer opportunities to get into trouble is a plus.
By the way, aren't we getting a little ahead of ourselves here? We are talking about the tournament location of a non-existent conference in a town that has no schools in the current conversation.
I think everything helps in terms of recruiting. If the brand of shoe or number of fans with signs for them at a madness event is important to recruits, then I'm guessing where the conference tournament is played will matter.
Also, there are no schools in Indianapolis, but St. John's is in NYC - I'm guessing they would prefer to keep MSG as the championship location.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 11, 2012, 10:15:32 AM
Yes, MSG is a hallowed venue. But to recruits now and in the future, is MSG that big a deal? I can imagine a scenario where a recruit could care less about MSG and its history and more about Jay-Z and the Barclay's Center. I'm not saying Banker's Life is the Barclay's... I'm just saying I don't think future recruits will care much about "old" MSG.
Wrong! This is for the 2-star recruit that will leave school without a degree and steal cars for a living. For those that are all Big East and draftable, they want to be in Manhattan because they want to play in front of hundreds of reporters and scouts that will mean money for them. Manhattan is easier than Brooklyn.
Besides Barclay's has the A-10 so that is taken.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 11, 2012, 10:25:02 AM
Wrong! This is for the 2-star recruit that will leave school without a degree and steal cars for a living.
wow. forget the teal?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 11, 2012, 10:12:17 AM
If Kemba Walker single-handily won five games in five days to win a Major conference tourney in Indy, it would not be nearly as big a deal.
If a team wins in 6 OTs in front of 8,000 Hoosiers in Indy, no one would care.
Performances on the MSG stage like Walker, can mean attention and a higher draft spot. It can mean millions to that player.
Yes, 5-star recruits understand this.
Without using the internet:
What city was Magic vs Larry in the NCAA?
What city did Jordan win the NCAA?
Where did Bryce Drew hit his miracle shot?
Where did Adam Morrison lose and cry on the court?
Where did (insert famous NCAA moment here) happen?
Location IS important... but you are really overstating it. Great moments and great games are remembered for what happened, not because of where it was played.
Dial it back a little bit.
MSG is important. Yes. But, it's not THAT important.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 11, 2012, 10:30:18 AM
Without using the internet:
What city was Magic vs Larry in the NCAA?
What city did Jordan win the NCAA?
Where did Bryce Drew hit his miracle shot?
Where did Adam Morrison lose and cry on the court?
Where did (insert famous NCAA moment here) happen?
Location IS important... but you are really overstating it. Great moments and great games are remembered for what happened, not because of where it was played.
Dial it back a little bit.
MSG is important. Yes. But, it's not THAT important.
NCAA is the big show, they could hold that in Gary Indiana and it will be the biggest show in College BBall.
This is about a conference tourney. Indy is a mistake, period.
Sweet, Indy' had the opportunity to host a bunch of Final Fours and Super Bowls because of their awful football stadium. So, yeah, I hope they're good at them, but that shouldnt be an accomplishment when you've had so many opportunities/practice.
If Indy's a possibility, then why not St. Louis, Cincinnati, Providence, Newark, hell Dayton hosts the NCAA play-in games everywhere - I bet they're good at it.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 11, 2012, 10:32:35 AM
NCAA is the big show, they could hold that in Gary Indiana and it will be the biggest show in College BBall.
This is about a conference tourney. Indy is a mistake, period.
I agree that Indy would be a mistake, but you're acting like it would be the end of the world, and then extrapolating a lot of stuff to support that.
People watch and remember good games, regardless of venue. MU tried to play on a FUCKING AIRCRAFT CARRIER!
NYC is very important to the Big East's reputation, but you are WAY overstating it.
What city does the ACC play their games in? Last I checked I don't think any city in North Carolina is a big market and the ACC seems to be ok with it...
Quote from: PTM on December 11, 2012, 10:13:54 AM
Indy is the Applebee's of tournament cities.
I'd say it's the Golden Corral in the smorgasboard of cities. Sure, it might be a sweet idea at first, but then you try it, and you pay for the decision for shortly after.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 11, 2012, 10:30:18 AM
Without using the internet:
What city was Magic vs Larry in the NCAA?
What city did Jordan win the NCAA?
Where did Bryce Drew hit his miracle shot?
Where did Adam Morrison lose and cry on the court?
Where did (insert famous NCAA moment here) happen?
Location IS important... but you are really overstating it. Great moments and great games are remembered for what happened, not because of where it was played.
Dial it back a little bit.
MSG is important. Yes. But, it's not THAT important.
Those are all great examples....of the NCAA TOURNAMENT. NOT a conference tournament. The only conference tourney w/any cache is the Big East. Period.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on December 11, 2012, 10:42:53 AM
I'd say it's the Golden Corral in the smorgasboard of cities. Sure, it might be a sweet idea at first, but then you try it, and you pay for the decision for shortly after.
Well done.
I saw this the other day and it describes Indy well. "No Zip". I think it would be a mistake to play our conference tournament there.
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/67472/b1g-cant-ignore-convenience-of-chicago
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 11, 2012, 10:25:02 AM
Wrong! This is for the 2-star recruit that will leave school without a degree and steal cars for a living. For those that are all Big East and draftable, they want to be in Manhattan because they want to play in front of hundreds of reporters and scouts that will mean money for them. Manhattan is easier than Brooklyn.
Besides Barclay's has the A-10 so that is taken.
I recently spent 6 months on a project working directly across the street from the Barclay's Center.
Barclay's is actually super easy to get to. It sits right above one of the biggest NY subway hubs and is easily accessible from almost anywhere in the NYC metro area. The stadium itself is absolutely gorgeous inside and you can definitely tell Jay Z has had his influence on it. Not many basketball arenas do this, but this one wowed me.
I really think if MSG is an option, take a shot at the Barclay's if possible. Especially if we are grabbing a few A-10 schools, who knows what might happen to their current contract.
Been there, didn't forget anything, no reason to go back.
1. Indy is a weak option. Nothing against the city, but it has zero tourist appeal and is the center of the B1G, which also creates a scheduling issue in March.
2. Not having as many options for players to get into trouble? Huh? So let's do it in Iowa. I need ways to get me into trouble if I'm going to go.
3. Assuming we can't keep it at MSG (which is a dump by the way), Barclay's would be an excellent option in my book and I'd put Chicago a distant second, followed by DC or Philly.
4. Having said all that, where they play the conference tournament is not as big a deal as people make it out to be.
Quote from: robmufan on December 11, 2012, 10:37:47 AM
What city does the ACC play their games in? Last I checked I don't think any city in North Carolina is a big market and the ACC seems to be ok with it...
North Carolina has three large markets, but they rarely get the recognition because they are combined areas. Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point has around 1.6 million, Charlotte Metro has around 2.5 million people, and Raleigh-Durham has 2.7 million. They are surprisingly major markets despite not being perceived in that way.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 01:43:44 PM
North Carolina has three large markets, but they rarely get the recognition because they are combined areas. Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point has around 1.6 million, Charlotte Metro has around 2.5 million people, and Raleigh-Durham has 2.7 million. They are surprisingly major markets despite not being perceived in that way.
In other words, all three are bigger than Indy.
And again the B10 plays their tourney in Indy. They could pile in 25,000 Hooiser fans alone. What would we get?
Why would anyone think a second major conference tourney in Indy is a good idea? When and where would they play it? It would have t be the same weekend, unless the we want to go first and play a week earlier with all the mid-majors.
No, I'm not overstating it, Indy is a disastrous idea. Purge this idea from your thoughts.
Gotta go outside the box, forget those cities. Send the tourney to Atlantis.
Each school is close enough. It's spring break, play to that. It may not matter that much to overall recruiting, but each team would get to play there. If you're a team in this new conference and you go to Maui and Atlantis in a season, squeeze in a trip to Europe over the summer once in a while, that's something to play to.
It's different and outside the box. I'd go in a heartbeat.
Quote from: MUDish on December 11, 2012, 04:01:29 PM
Gotta go outside the box, forget those cities. Send the tourney to Atlantis.
Each school is close enough. It's spring break, play to that. It may not matter that much to overall recruiting, but each team would get to play there. If your a team in this new conference and you go to Maui and Atlantis in a season, squeeze in a trip to Europe over the summer once in a while, that's something to play to.
It's different and outside the box. I'd go in a heartbeat.
I like that idea and I think it would help recruiting. I think your idea of the whole conference recruiting for one school is kind of silly though. But you are right, do things differently and outside the box to draw attention to the new conference.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 11, 2012, 03:57:50 PMIn other words, all three are bigger than Indy.
Indy's metro area is about 1.7 million, so about the same size as Greensboro/Winston-Salem.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 11, 2012, 03:57:50 PMAnd again the B10 plays their tourney in Indy. They could pile in 25,000 Hooiser fans alone. What would we get?
Why would anyone think a second major conference tourney in Indy is a good idea? When and where would they play it? It would have t be the same weekend, unless the we want to go first and play a week earlier with all the mid-majors.
They don't have it there exclusively, the B1G alternates between Indy and Chicago. But I'm sure they have some kind of contract and wouldn't want to give it up to an upstart conference.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 11, 2012, 03:57:50 PMNo, I'm not overstating it, Indy is a disastrous idea. Purge this idea from your thoughts.
MSG is a much better idea. Or Barclay's. Or Verizon in DC. But I really like MUDish's idea of Atlantis or some other tropical destination. Outside the box and a legitimate attraction point for recruits.
Quote from: PTM on December 11, 2012, 10:13:54 AM
Indy is the Applebee's of tournament cities.
this X1000
This is such a terrible thread. Indy has the facilities and has accommodated the Big Ten just fine for years. It will continue to accommodate the Big Ten and host other large events. Including, but not limited to, Final Fours and Super Bowls. If Indy is a future host city (or rotating host city) it seems like a fine choice by me.
Also, geography of a game doesn't make it less of a "big deal". It won't cost a player draft position nor millions of dollars. NBA scouts DO NOT CARE. NBA execs DO NOT CARE. Unlike college basketball "atmosphere", the NBA is about production. Simply put, be good at basketball.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on December 11, 2012, 05:03:28 PMAlso, geography of a game doesn't make it less of a "big deal". It won't cost a player draft position nor millions of dollars. NBA scouts DO NOT CARE. NBA execs DO NOT CARE. Unlike college basketball "atmosphere", the NBA is about production. Simply put, be good at basketball.
You lost me here completely. Are you saying where we play doesn't matter to NBA scouts? Probably not, but who cares what they think? How is that relevant? If we play at MSG, that could motivate an impressionable teenager who would rather be guaranteed playing annually in the World's Most Famous Arena instead of in Indy or Milwaukee or Dayton. Though spending the time around Spring Break at Atlantis every year might be an even bigger motivator.
Well... this wasn't much of a debate. What I've learned here is that if given the choice of any place that isn't MSG, most people will still choose MSG.
Mea culpa... I should have known damn well you can't reason with a group of people who has proven that they will still vote "Warriors" even after they're told not to vote "Warriors."
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 05:08:06 PM
You lost me here completely. Are you saying where we play doesn't matter to NBA scouts? Probably not, but who cares what they think? How is that relevant? If we play at MSG, that could motivate an impressionable teenager who would rather be guaranteed playing annually in the World's Most Famous Arena instead of in Indy or Milwaukee or Dayton. Though spending the time around Spring Break at Atlantis every year might be an even bigger motivator.
I care what NBA scouts think because it is their job to evaluate talent.
I'm talking about when AnotherMU84 stated,
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 11, 2012, 10:12:17 AM
If Kemba Walker single-handily won five games in five days to win a Major conference tourney in Indy, it would not be nearly as big a deal.
If a team wins in 6 OTs in front of 8,000 Hoosiers in Indy, no one would care.
Performances on the MSG stage like Walker, can mean attention and a higher draft spot. It can mean millions to that player.
Yes, 5-star recruits understand this.
This is completely false and ridiculous. How do you even define "no one would care"? Totally left out of this thread was the fact that UConn went on to win the National Championship. That is the goal every season. To build on that and my original point, the real end goal is to make it to the NBA. That road knows no geographical boundaries.
To me, using a host city of a conference championship is a weak recruiting talking point.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on December 11, 2012, 05:31:50 PM
To me, using a host city of a conference championship is a weak recruiting talking point.
Buzz Williams, Larry Williams, Trent Lockett and Junior Cadougan all spoke at various points about NYC and MSG. That's four mentions from four Marquette people all in one media day. You can go back in history and I have a good feeling there is always NYC/MSG comments from Marquette players at Big East Media Day.
Come on now.
Quote from: PTM on December 11, 2012, 05:44:45 PM
Buzz Williams, Larry Williams, Trent Lockett and Junior Cadougan all spoke at various points about NYC and MSG. That's four mentions from four Marquette people all in one media day. You can go back in history and I have a good feeling there is always NYC/MSG comments from Marquette players at Big East Media Day.
Come on now.
Pointed questions get pointed results. Notice that Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Terrence Jones, Marquis Teague didn't have a problem playing their conference championship in New Orleans.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on December 11, 2012, 05:52:15 PM
Pointed questions get pointed results. Notice that Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Terrence Jones, Marquis Teague didn't have a problem playing their conference championship in New Orleans.
Neither would I, NOLA is awesome.
Quote from: Benny B on December 11, 2012, 09:19:50 AM
Cons:
Dining - It is well known that people in Indiana don't patronize restaurants with fewer than 10 locations. That said, you still have high-end places like St. Elmo's, Palomino, Capital Grille, etc., but not a lot of "culture" when it comes to foodie options that can be found in Chicago, Philly, DC and Brooklyn.
Accessibility - Chicago, DC and NYC have direct flights to every school's city. Omaha, Providence, Dayton and Milwaukee would have to connect to get to Indy (although Dayton is a two hour drive, Milwaukee four).
Nightlife - You don't have the underground discotheques and clubs with naked ladies dancing in cages, but you do have your choice of various establishments downtown, on Mass Ave, and in Broadripple that would probably be more suited to the crowd that would attend a conference tournament.
I am a huge Indy fan having gone to grad school down the road. It's a wonderful city and does sporting events proper. BUT, I would still say no. Let's add to your cons list
1) Big Ten tournament already there on alternating years....do you really want to compete against the Big Ten with two large Indiana schools just outside Indy and other schools within a 7 hour drive for a number others (Ohio State, Michigan, MSU, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Illinois)
2) No teams in this proposed new conference from Indiana and the two closest to Indianapolis are small, private schools that travel so-so.
3) More than half of the C7 are from the East Coast corridor where NYC or Philly is easy to get to for five of those schools and their alumni, which dominate in those areas
4) Local support. Why would a non-alum from Indianapolis attend this event moreso than the Big Ten tournament?
5) Getting to Indianapolis from outside the midwest is a pain in the rear. It is much easier to get into Philly, NYC, or D.C. in terms of flights. Granted, hotel rooms are not going to be as cheap, but air travel is a no brainer for those coming from further out (California, Colorado, Texas, Florida) to get to Indianapolis. More direct flights.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on December 11, 2012, 05:31:50 PMTo me, using a host city of a conference championship is a weak recruiting talking point.
I think many conferences see their tournament venue as a statement about the conference itself. The Pac-12 identifies with LA, the undisputed capitol of the West Coast (though they are moving to Vegas, maybe for a bit of flair). Chicago, a regular B1G venue, is the Midwest capitol. NYC is the capitol of the East Coast, which is why the Big East (and A-10) want to be there, and why the ACC expressed interest after landing Syracuse. All of which are notably bigger locations than typical mid-major venues like St. Louis (MVC's Arch Madness), Cleveland (MAC), or Paradise, NV (MWC) are clearly a step down in prestige.
I wouldn't say it matters to NBA scouts, but I do think it matters to recruits where they are able to showcase their skills. Playing in NYC, Chicago, or LA has a lot more name cache than playing in Cleveland.
Though I still vote for Atlantis :D
One additional Pro: St. Elmo's Steakhouse
Topless clubs are better in Tampa.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 11, 2012, 09:31:48 AM
Not the energy/excitement of a New York, but I came away impressed.
Indy doesn't have the "energy/excitement" of a New York? I did not know that. This is why we pay you the big bucks.
Anyone who has anything positive to say about Indianapolis, has never been to Indianapolis.
I have no interest in visiting Indianapolis.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 11, 2012, 06:59:40 PM
One additional Pro: St. Elmo's Steakhouse
Are you sure you don't mean Charles Mulligan's Steak House? The best damn steakhouse in the damn state.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 12, 2012, 07:56:00 AM
Are you sure you don't mean Charles Mulligan's Steak House? The best damn steakhouse in the damn state.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=w5z7r8LqJ74&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dw5z7r8LqJ74
and
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=vJcAoB3GBDI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvJcAoB3GBDI
Chico has gone soft. He's become Executive Director of Marketing for the Greater Indianapolis and Marion County Convention and Visitors Bureau.
C'mon Chico. Let's look at Indianapolis objectively. It's air service is about on par with Green Bay. It's gourmet dining has golden arches and non-basketball entertainment consists of Up With People or watching moss grow on the soldiers and sailors monument.
We won't even talk about railroad service. Their Amtrak service is a "hospital train" that carries cars to Beech Grove and arrives in the middle of the night.
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 12, 2012, 09:30:59 AM
Chico has gone soft. He's become Executive Director of Marketing for the Greater Indianapolis and Marion County Convention and Visitors Bureau.
C'mon Chico. Let's look at Indianapolis objectively. It's air service is about on par with Green Bay. It's gourmet dining has golden arches and non-basketball entertainment consists of Up With People or watching moss grow on the soldiers and sailors monument.
We won't even talk about railroad service. Their Amtrak service is a "hospital train" that carries cars to Beech Grove and arrives in the middle of the night.
Ooops. I blamed Chico when I meant Benny B. Ummm, easy habit to do on this Board. Sorry, Chico! Benny, this rap is for you!!!!
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 11, 2012, 10:15:32 AM
Yes, MSG is a hallowed venue. But to recruits now and in the future, is MSG that big a deal? I can imagine a scenario where a recruit could care less about MSG and its history and more about Jay-Z and the Barclay's Center. I'm not saying Banker's Life is the Barclay's... I'm just saying I don't think future recruits will care much about "old" MSG.
Was hearing the same thing about the Brendan Byrne Arena back in the day. How'd that work out? Brooklyn versus Manhattan? Who writes this stuff?
Quote from: Mutaman on December 11, 2012, 09:53:58 PM
Indy doesn't have the "energy/excitement" of a New York? I did not know that. This is why we pay you the big bucks.
Funny stuff. And in other breaking news, Des Moines is no Chicago. Guess a job as a travel editor for a major monthly is a bit beyond my scope.
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 12, 2012, 09:33:07 AM
Ooops. I blamed Chico when I meant Benny B. Ummm, easy habit to do on this Board. Sorry, Chico! Benny, this rap is for you!!!!
I will concede that
holiday basketball tournaments are about the destination, but conference and NCAA tournaments are about basketball. Indy is not a vacation destination; but, it is amongst the best locales for a
basketball tournament.
If you want to talk about Indy as a vacation destination... might I suggest TripAdvisor?
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 12, 2012, 09:33:07 AM
Ooops. I blamed Chico when I meant Benny B. Ummm, easy habit to do on this Board. Sorry, Chico! Benny, this rap is for you!!!!
LOL. I was wondering where you were going with that. To be fair, I like Indy a lot but I think it is a bad choice for a tournament for many reasons listed.
Quote from: Benny B on December 12, 2012, 10:52:34 AM
I will concede that holiday basketball tournaments are about the destination, but conference and NCAA tournaments are about basketball. Indy is not a vacation destination; but, it is amongst the best locales for a basketball tournament.
If you want to talk about Indy as a vacation destination... might I suggest TripAdvisor?
It might be a great location logistically and for the fan experience, however the "perceived value" of a conf. tournament in Indy isn't very high.
It's perfect of the B10, which has a very high profile rep.
For the (insert new conf. name), the location of the tournament is important to building/maintaining a brand image. Indy doesn't really help with that.
Indy is the Applebees/Honda/Holiday Inn of tournament locations. Nice. Dependable. Convenient.
But, you wouldn't brag to your friends about it.
If a conference championship somehow ends up at the Barclays Center, be sure to read up on native Brooklynites. Similar to native residents of Milwaukee, they have their fair share of weird customs and traditions.
http://takimag.com/article/10_facts_about_brooklyn_natives_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz2EgyGZTXY (http://takimag.com/article/10_facts_about_brooklyn_natives_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz2EgyGZTXY)
Quote from: Aughnanure on December 11, 2012, 10:34:39 AM
Sweet, Indy' had the opportunity to host a bunch of Final Fours and Super Bowls because of their awful football stadium. So, yeah, I hope they're good at them, but that shouldnt be an accomplishment when you've had so many opportunities/practice.
If Indy's a possibility, then why not St. Louis, Cincinnati, Providence, Newark, hell Dayton hosts the NCAA play-in games everywhere - I bet they're good at it.
Hey Einstien, the NCAA doesn't keep giving you final fours unless you are really good at putting one on. That is an accomplishment to get one.
If you have ever been to an event in Indy...Final Four, SuperBowl, Big? Tourney...no other city does it better. Again, that being said, and others have said, unless the new conference includes Butler, there is no reason to even think about having it in Indy.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on December 12, 2012, 01:23:34 PM
Hey Einstien, the NCAA doesn't keep giving you final fours unless you are really good at putting one on. That is an accomplishment to get one.
If you have ever been to an event in Indy...Final Four, SuperBowl, Big? Tourney...no other city does it better. Again, that being said, and others have said, unless the new conference includes Butler, there is no reason to even think about having it in Indy.
Hey, Einstein, learn how to spell "Einstein" ;D
Quote from: warriorchick on December 12, 2012, 03:04:53 PM
Hey, Einstein, learn how to spell "Einstein" ;D
duly noted....just gets on my nerve when someone compares Indy hosting a tournament to Applebee's....I am a food snob. If you are there to watch basketball, there is no better forum. If you want tourney sponsored events (like bars officially designated to your school, all within a 5 minute walk from the arena), no other venue can compete. It's not a "safety" place, it's a world class event. If you want to do things not focused on the tournament itself....not so much.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on December 12, 2012, 03:24:05 PM
duly noted....just gets on my nerve when someone compares Indy hosting a tournament to Applebee's....I am a food snob. If you are there to watch basketball, there is no better forum. If you want tourney sponsored events (like bars officially designated to your school, all within a 5 minute walk from the arena), no other venue can compete. It's not a "safety" place, it's a world class event. If you want to do things not focused on the tournament itself....not so much.
Fine. Honda is a better example.
Well thought of. Dependable. World renowned.
Not sexy.
Indy is awesome. I get it. But, the "C7" is going to have to make a splash with almost every decision they make to stay relevant.
If you want to be remembered, drive a Aston Martin, not a Honda. The Aston will break down, parts are expensive, and who the hell knows how to fix them?
But, you will be remembered.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on December 12, 2012, 03:24:05 PM
duly noted....just gets on my nerve when someone compares Indy hosting a tournament to Applebee's....I am a food snob. If you are there to watch basketball, there is no better forum. If you want tourney sponsored events (like bars officially designated to your school, all within a 5 minute walk from the arena), no other venue can compete. It's not a "safety" place, it's a world class event. If you want to do things not focused on the tournament itself....not so much.
So a football stadium is the best place to watch basketball now? I can't strongly disagree enough.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 12, 2012, 11:08:12 AM
Indy is the Applebees/Honda/Holiday Inn of tournament locations. Nice. Dependable. Convenient.
My brother-in-law (MU grad) works for Honda. He's nice and he's dependable,all right, but he'd still be less than thrilled with the Applebees comparison :)
Quote from: Aughnanure on December 12, 2012, 03:29:50 PM
So a football stadium is the best place to watch basketball now? I can't strongly disagree enough.
Hey Copernicus ;D, the Big? is played at Banker's Life (Conseco) Fieldhouse. One of the finest arenas to watch a game.
Quote from: Aughnanure on December 12, 2012, 03:29:50 PM
So a football stadium is the best place to watch basketball now? I can't strongly disagree enough.
Why, have it at the Fieldhouse right down the road from the stadium. No need to have it at the stadium.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 12, 2012, 03:34:37 PM
My brother-in-law (MU grad) works for Honda. He's nice and he's dependable,all right, but he'd still be less than thrilled with the Applebees comparison :)
Never been to an Applebees so no comment. When I leave the fine Mexican joint next door there sure are a lot of Honda's in the parking lot of Applebees.
Quote from: SaintPaulWarrior on December 12, 2012, 07:35:30 PM
Never been to an Applebees so no comment. When I leave the fine Mexican joint next door there sure are a lot of Honda's in the parking lot of Applebees.
Civics, sure. Acuras, not so much.