MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: teamdee on December 06, 2012, 09:11:45 AM

Title: toughness
Post by: teamdee on December 06, 2012, 09:11:45 AM
We need our guys to start playing with toughness like Derrick Wilson.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: JD on December 06, 2012, 09:19:42 AM
Derrick is that you?

I agree, but i think Vander has been our toughest player this year.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Benny B on December 06, 2012, 09:25:31 AM
Check the blotter... make sure Derrick didn't take someone down at Webb's last night.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 06, 2012, 09:37:36 AM
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 06, 2012, 09:19:42 AM
Derrick is that you?

I agree, but i think Vander has been our toughest player this year.

Agreed.  His mental game is on point, and it's showing in the box scores.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: KenoshaWarrior on December 06, 2012, 09:45:25 AM
Quote from: teamdee on December 06, 2012, 09:11:45 AM
We need our guys to start playing with toughness like Derrick Wilson.
I agree.  Great post!!
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Bocephys on December 06, 2012, 10:57:55 AM
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 06, 2012, 09:19:42 AM
Derrick is that you?

I agree, but i think Vander has been our toughest player this year.

Well sure, but we're not allowed to praise Vander on this board.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Dawson Rental on December 06, 2012, 11:03:20 AM
Quote from: Bocephys on December 06, 2012, 10:57:55 AM
Well sure, but we're not allowed to praise Vander on this board.

Not to mention that Derrick is touted by many as a prime transfer candidate once Duane Wilson comes on board.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Blue Horseshoe on December 06, 2012, 11:24:21 AM
Quote from: teamdee on December 06, 2012, 09:11:45 AM
We need our guys to start playing with toughness like Derrick Wilson.

Define toughness.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 06, 2012, 12:05:22 PM
Quote from: LittleMurs on December 06, 2012, 11:03:20 AM
Not to mention that Derrick is touted by many as a prime transfer candidate once Duane Wilson comes on board.

No idea why they'd think that.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: JD on December 06, 2012, 12:07:45 PM
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 06, 2012, 12:05:22 PM
No idea why they'd think that.

Agree, i expect Derrick to start ahead of Duane, i'm not sure why there's speculation he shouldn't.

Anybody?  I haven't seen much film on Duane, but i think Derrick is going to be very good and is showing signs already of HUGE improvment.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Dawson Rental on December 06, 2012, 12:14:15 PM
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 06, 2012, 12:05:22 PM
No idea why they'd think that.

Me neither, but such is the logic of the premature "How do we get to the roster limit next year" threads.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: DSEEagle on December 06, 2012, 01:11:17 PM
I think Derrick has carved his role as a backup point guard. I think he'll start at the beginning of next year but it will be too hard to keep such an offensive talent like Duane off the floor. As solid as he's played this year he is too limited offensively.

Agree with toughness though. This should be especially targeted at Jamil.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: mubb34 on December 06, 2012, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 06, 2012, 12:07:45 PM
Agree, i expect Derrick to start ahead of Duane, i'm not sure why there's speculation he shouldn't.

Anybody?  I haven't seen much film on Duane, but i think Derrick is going to be very good and is showing signs already of HUGE improvment.


Heres video on Duane from last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpEFm-z8rJY
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: DSEEagle on December 06, 2012, 01:32:06 PM
Quote from: mubb34 on December 06, 2012, 01:20:47 PM

Heres video on Duane from last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpEFm-z8rJY

You will not be able to keep that offense off the floor in place of Derrick. Especially after this year where we will have a TON of problems scoring.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on December 06, 2012, 01:35:07 PM
Duane looks really good. Nice touch on the jumper.

With this said, Derrick is improving nicely, so I still expect him to start next year. Duane will get as many minutes as his defense allows. That seems to be how Buzz works the frosh. Defense=playing time.

20min of Wilson. 20 min. of Wilson. Nice mix.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: GGGG on December 06, 2012, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 06, 2012, 12:05:22 PM
No idea why they'd think that.

1. They don't fully comprehend how players can develop in a couple years, and...

2. They are talking out of their ass.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: MU82 on December 06, 2012, 02:28:31 PM
If Duane Wilson is as good offensively as most think, his talent and size will demand that he plays significant minutes.

Buzz hasn't given most freshmen serious playing time, but that's because he hasn't had many 4- and 5-star freshmen. Vander played a good amount as a frosh and I'm guessing Duane Wilson, Burton and Johnson will get plenty of PT. There will be need and opportunity.

Derrick Wilson is a tough kid and a nice defensive player. As much as Junior frustrates us sometimes, he has it all offensively over Derrick. By all accounts, Duane will be better than both; some might argue he is already.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: JD on December 06, 2012, 02:33:08 PM
If some scoopers think Duane will start next year due to his offensive talent, what's the reason Buzz doesn't start Derrick instead of Junior then?  So far, after watching all of the games, i feel Derrick has been better than Junior.

I can't see Buzz starting Duane next year, i just don't see it happening. Buzz has shown us that loyalty, seniority maybe above skill (Derrick v Junior)  Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Bocephys on December 06, 2012, 02:38:28 PM
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 06, 2012, 02:33:08 PM
If some scoopers think Duane will start next year due to his offensive talent, what's the reason Buzz doesn't start Derrick instead of Junior then?  So far, after watching all of the games, i feel Derrick has been better than Junior.

I can't see Buzz starting Duane next year, i just don't see it happening. Buzz has shown us that loyalty, seniority maybe above skill (Derrick v Junior)  Just my thoughts.

Let's also not forget that Derrick averaged plenty of points in high school and could be just deferring to other options at this point.  This is directly from ESPN's scouting report on him:
QuoteHe has an aggressive scorer's mindset, constantly looking to attack the defense, and able to put points on the board both by overpowering defenders en route to the rim or also from the perimeter with a much improved skill set.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: DSEEagle on December 06, 2012, 03:20:22 PM
I averaged plenty of points in high school.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: mileskishnish72 on December 06, 2012, 03:21:25 PM
Freshmen have to be pretty special to get minutes from Buzz.
Duane will have to play defense. I think Derrick will continue to improve on the offensive end. Could see the offense/defense substitutions with Otule and Derrick alternating with Duane and Ox.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on December 06, 2012, 03:23:51 PM
Quote from: DSEEagle on December 06, 2012, 01:32:06 PM
You will not be able to keep that offense off the floor in place of Derrick. Especially after this year where we will have a TON of problems scoring.

Oh, and just to double back to this comment, why would MU have more trouble scoring next year vs this year?

They lose Lockett, Junior and potentially Otule. None of them have been a strong scorer so far this season.

You figure with the improvement of Juan, Vander, Jamil, Gardner, Taylor, and Derrick Wilson, they will already be a better scoring team next year.

Add in a couple of Frosh. role players and I love that roster.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2012, 03:47:40 PM
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 06, 2012, 03:23:51 PM
Oh, and just to double back to this comment, why would MU have more trouble scoring next year vs this year?




I don't think he's saying we'll have more trouble scoring next year, rather that after all the trouble we'll have this year Buzz will be open to new blood helping next year.

I see his point, but it's also true that Buzz has shown a reluctance to give freshmen big minutes. Maybe, though, Duane (or JJJ, Dawson or Burton) will be good enough to change his mind.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Bocephys on December 06, 2012, 03:52:13 PM
Quote from: DSEEagle on December 06, 2012, 03:20:22 PM
I averaged plenty of points in high school.

Yea, but going down to the Y and forcefully subbing yourself in to 5th grade games to pad your stats isn't exactly the same as playing AAU ball.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: DSEEagle on December 06, 2012, 04:07:41 PM
Quote from: Bocephys on December 06, 2012, 03:52:13 PM
Yea, but going down to the Y and forcefully subbing yourself in to 5th grade games to pad your stats isn't exactly the same as playing AAU ball.

I'm just saying I think we should pay a little more attention to his first 40 games at MU than whatever he did on the AAU circuit.

QuoteI don't think he's saying we'll have more trouble scoring next year, rather that after all the trouble we'll have this year Buzz will be open to new blood helping next year.

I see his point, but it's also true that Buzz has shown a reluctance to give freshmen big minutes. Maybe, though, Duane (or JJJ, Dawson or Burton) will be good enough to change his mind.

And this is correct.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: MarsupialMadness on December 06, 2012, 04:21:39 PM
I'd be shocked if we started a freshman point guard next year.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on December 06, 2012, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2012, 03:47:40 PM
I don't think he's saying we'll have more trouble scoring next year, rather that after all the trouble we'll have this year Buzz will be open to new blood helping next year.

I see his point, but it's also true that Buzz has shown a reluctance to give freshmen big minutes. Maybe, though, Duane (or JJJ, Dawson or Burton) will be good enough to change his mind.

All true, I guess I'm counting on the development of the 6 players I mentioned to cure some offensive woes.

Nobody on the team is currently a natural scorer like DJO, but Jae wasn't a great scorer as a junior, but was very efficient as a senior. Guys do get better, so if all of the guys can be a little more efficient next year, I don't think there is a gaping need on the offensive end.

With this said, I wouldn't be shocked to see Wilson/Wilson share time. Like I said before, Buzz will play a frosh., but that frosh. better be ready to work on defense. All of the guys who have gotten min. as frosh. (Reggie Smith, Maymon, Vander, Taylor) have been able to hold their own on defense.

Plus, my own bias is to not count on Frosh. playing. Role players? Yes. Major minutes? Maybe. Major impact? Doubtful... but that's my own expectations, regardless of who the player is.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: MU82 on December 06, 2012, 10:13:59 PM
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 06, 2012, 03:21:25 PM
Freshmen have to be pretty special to get minutes from Buzz.
Duane will have to play defense. I think Derrick will continue to improve on the offensive end. Could see the offense/defense substitutions with Otule and Derrick alternating with Duane and Ox.

Was Vander "special" as a freshman? Averaged 19 minutes. Was Mayo "special"? Averaged 21 minutes.

Buzz will play the guys he believes will help him win. He is a coach. He wants to win. Is it that big a stretch to think that any of Duane, Deonte and JJJ will be at least as big impact freshman as Vander and Mayo?

And this is coming from a cynic who rarely believes the recruiting hype. I'm not sure I believe the hype about these guys, either, but there definitely will be a need next season. Buzz will play the most deserving players.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: The Equalizer on December 07, 2012, 09:13:17 AM
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 06, 2012, 12:07:45 PM
Agree, i expect Derrick to start ahead of Duane, i'm not sure why there's speculation he shouldn't.

Anybody? 


The speculation comes from the observation that great PGs at MU have either started as frosh (Tony Miller, Dominic James, Cordell Henry) or demonstrated skllls at that level but had to wait behind a great senior (Diener behind Henry, Hutchins behind Miller).

Derrick Wilson hasn't yet demonstrated the proficiency of Diener or Hutchins, reducing confidence he'll be able to step up.  

That leaves hope that Duane is next in line for the Miller/Henry/James list of 4-year starting PGs.

 
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on December 07, 2012, 09:20:40 AM
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 07, 2012, 09:13:17 AM
The speculation comes from the observation that great PGs at MU have either started as frosh (Tony Miller, Dominic James, Cordell Henry) or demonstrated skllls at that level but had to wait behind a great senior (Diener behind Henry, Hutchins behind Miller).

Derrick Wilson hasn't yet demonstrated the proficiency of Diener or Hutchins, reducing confidence he'll be able to step up.  

That leaves hope that Duane is next in line for the Miller/Henry/James list of 4-year starting PGs.

 


Not to nitpick, but Cordell Henry wasn't good as a frosh. Bart Miller was the starter initially, but he was worse.

Realistically, Cordell shouldn't have been starting. He developed into a nice player, but wasn't very good his first 2 seasons. He should have been a secondary player, not a starter and a primary ball handler.

The Wilson/Wilson combo should be very good for the next 2 seasons.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: RJax55 on December 07, 2012, 09:40:01 AM
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 07, 2012, 09:20:40 AM
Not to nitpick, but Cordell Henry wasn't good as a frosh. Bart Miller was the starter initially, but he was worse.

Realistically, Cordell shouldn't have been starting. He developed into a nice player, but wasn't very good his first 2 seasons. He should have been a secondary player, not a starter and a primary ball handler.

The Wilson/Wilson combo should be very good for the next 2 seasons.

Yeah, Cordell was playing mainly due to the lack of talent MU had at the time. It wasn't until his junior year that he started to turn the corner. He did have a great, and IMO extremely underrated senior season.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on December 07, 2012, 09:56:41 AM
Yea, he had a nice senior year, no doubt.

Good college player. Nice development from year to year.

But, the idea that he was a magical 4 year starter is a bit of a stretch. He was a below average player starting on a bad team for the first couple of years. Not his fault, but he shouldn't really get "credit" like James does.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2012, 10:05:37 AM
Maybe Duane won't be a four-year starter because he'll be really great and the NBA will come a'callin' sooner!
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: keefe on December 26, 2012, 03:00:55 AM
Quote from: DSEEagle on December 06, 2012, 03:20:22 PM
I averaged plenty of points in high school.

At what? The AV team?
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: keefe on December 26, 2012, 03:21:50 AM
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 07, 2012, 09:20:40 AM
Not to nitpick, but Cordell Henry wasn't good as a frosh. Bart Miller was the starter initially, but he was worse.

Realistically, Cordell shouldn't have been starting. He developed into a nice player, but wasn't very good his first 2 seasons. He should have been a secondary player, not a starter and a primary ball handler.

The Wilson/Wilson combo should be very good for the next 2 seasons.

Cordell was the starting PG on a great Whitney Young team that won AA State in 98. Q Richardson, Dennis Gates, Najeeb Echols and Henry. He was a solid PG and he had a great floater that was unstoppable. Huggins said he was the best PG in the Conference that year.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on December 26, 2012, 09:44:17 PM
I would not be shocked if Duane started next year.  He is really, really good!
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: avid1010 on December 26, 2012, 09:49:45 PM
i've been impressed with d. wilson's improvement this year...that said, while i get excited about his progress, i still believe his potential will max out very similar to junior's. 
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: AirPunches on December 26, 2012, 09:50:07 PM
It's hard to see if Wilson will start as a freshman next year. He is very good but Dominican is pretty crummy. It will be interesting to see how he plays with better players around him. He will make a lot of mistakes and have a lot of stupid turnovers but he is a lot of fun to watch, that's for sure.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: keefe on December 27, 2012, 03:15:54 AM
Two words - Terry Reason. Hyped as the all-time leading HS BB scorer in Cali history...no left hand and no hops. He did sport some incredible  Jheri Curls though.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: GGGG on December 27, 2012, 07:51:19 AM
Quote from: MARQ_13 on December 26, 2012, 09:50:07 PM
It's hard to see if Wilson will start as a freshman next year. He is very good but Dominican is pretty crummy. It will be interesting to see how he plays with better players around him. He will make a lot of mistakes and have a lot of stupid turnovers but he is a lot of fun to watch, that's for sure.


I think Derrick starts and Duane's minutes will be earned, positively or negatively, as the season wears on.  He could really be a great change of pace off the bench.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 27, 2012, 09:28:22 AM
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 07, 2012, 09:20:40 AM
Not to nitpick, but Cordell Henry wasn't good as a frosh. Bart Miller was the starter initially, but he was worse.

Realistically, Cordell shouldn't have been starting. He developed into a nice player, but wasn't very good his first 2 seasons. He should have been a secondary player, not a starter and a primary ball handler.

The Wilson/Wilson combo should be very good for the next 2 seasons.

Bart Miller? Intellect from Kentucky? I don't remember him playing the PG position. Must have been drunk.
Title: Re: toughness
Post by: keefe on December 27, 2012, 06:07:07 PM
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 27, 2012, 09:28:22 AM
Bart Miller? Intellect from Kentucky? I don't remember him playing the PG position. Must have been drunk.

Didn't Miller go to Harvard after MU? I know Marotta did. Diggs went to MIT.

Just remembered that Miller went to MIT after Marquette. Not bad.
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