ND thanks to Jack Swarbrick's bad move joining the ACC too soon.
He allowed the ACC to bend him over in a really bad deal with a conference that is on the verge of blowing up and turning themselves into the Big East. (Adding Pitt, Cuse and possibly Louisville and UConn).
He spurred the Big 10, and joined the ACC. He agreed to play 5 games FB against ACC schools.
Funny thing is Big East Football was beneath ND. Watch when the "ACC schools" they play in FB are Cuse, Louisville, Pitt and UConn (when Uconn replaces Fla State that jumps to the SEC).
In the end, Swabrick wound up agreeing to have ND join Big East Football.
Once the glow of this year's football team fades, and the trustees realize how bad Swabrick screwed ND, and it will cost them $50 million to ditch the ACC for the B10 (where they should be all along) will they fire him and hire Larry Williams?
Larry can secure that job if he successfully guides MU through this minefield.
So Larry, make a great deal for MU and move on to ND and be the guy to clean up Swabrick's mess. Well be fine after you get us through this period of instability.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 28, 2012, 08:57:52 AM
ND thanks to Jack Swarbrick's bad move joining the ACC too soon.
He allowed the ACC to bend him over in a really bad deal with a conference that is on the verge of blowing up and turning themselves into the Big East. (Adding Pitt, Cuse and possibly Louisville and UConn).
He spurred the Big 10, and joined the ACC. He agreed to play 5 games FB against ACC schools.
Funny thing is Big East Football was beneath ND. Watch when the "ACC schools" they play in FB are Cuse, Louisville, Pitt and UConn (when Uconn replaces Fla State that jumps to the SEC).
In the end, Swabrick wound up agreeing to have ND join Big East Football.
Once the glow of this year's football team fades, and the trustees realize how bad Swabrick screwed ND, and it will cost them $50 million to ditch the ACC for the B10 (where they should be all along) will they fire him and hire Larry Williams?
Larry can secure that job if he successfully guides MU through this minefield.
So Larry, make a great deal for MU and move on to ND and be the guy to clean up Swabrick's mess. Well be fine after you get us through this period of instability.
From the NYC Circles event, I learned that Larry first worked for Swarbick in the law firm in Indianapolis.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 28, 2012, 08:57:52 AM
ND thanks to Jack Swarbrick's bad move joining the ACC too soon.
He allowed the ACC to bend him over in a really bad deal with a conference that is on the verge of blowing up and turning themselves into the Big East. (Adding Pitt, Cuse and possibly Louisville and UConn).
He spurred the Big 10, and joined the ACC. He agreed to play 5 games FB against ACC schools.
Funny thing is Big East Football was beneath ND. Watch when the "ACC schools" they play in FB are Cuse, Louisville, Pitt and UConn (when Uconn replaces Fla State that jumps to the SEC).
In the end, Swabrick wound up agreeing to have ND join Big East Football.
Once the glow of this year's football team fades, and the trustees realize how bad Swabrick screwed ND, and it will cost them $50 million to ditch the ACC for the B10 (where they should be all along) will they fire him and hire Larry Williams?
Larry can secure that job if he successfully guides MU through this minefield.
So Larry, make a great deal for MU and move on to ND and be the guy to clean up Swabrick's mess. Well be fine after you get us through this period of instability.
Hate to break it to you, but Swabrick aint going anywhere any time soon. He is pretty much beloved at ND right now. They have a huge alumni base on the East Coast that loves that they joined the ACC. They get to stay independent in football, and join the ACC for their other sports. Men's and women's soccer, their lacrosse teams, baseball, softball and volleyball all just upgraded their conference from the Big East to the ACC. Oh, and they will be in the best basketball conference in America too.
Quote from: Norm on November 28, 2012, 09:11:13 AM
They have a huge alumni base on the East Coast that loves that they joined the ACC. They get to stay independent in football, and join the ACC for their other sports. Men's and women's soccer, their lacrosse teams, baseball, softball and volleyball all just upgraded their conference from the Big East to the ACC. Oh, and they will be in the best basketball conference in America too.
Yeah, but other than that...
AnotherMU, I know a bunch of ND alums that would disagree. I kinda do too. ACC is still part of the four mega conference plan (Big10, SEC, ACC, and PAC12). ND still keeps TV contracts and stays independant for football while joining a stronger basketball conference. ACC is still primarily east coast. Since ND will always be a recruiting power for football in the midwest, it strengthens its reach into the east and southeast. As far as the agreement to play 5 ACC games, that doesn't mean much since they already played 4 this year (Miami, Pitt, Wake, and Boston College). Just not sure how you are seeing that the egg is now in ND's face. I think they did a smart move for themselves.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on November 28, 2012, 09:16:39 AM
AnotherMU, I know a bunch of ND alums that would disagree. I kinda do too. ACC is still part of the four mega conference plan (Big10, SEC, ACC, and PAC12). ND still keeps TV contracts and stays independant for football while joining a stronger basketball conference. ACC is still primarily east coast. Since ND will always be a recruiting power for football in the midwest, it strengthens its reach into the east and southeast. As far as the agreement to play 5 ACC games, that doesn't mean much since they already played 4 this year (Miami, Pitt, Wake, and Boston College). Just not sure how you are seeing that the egg is now in ND's face. I think they did a smart move for themselves.
I agree. I know a decent number of ND alums outside of the Marquette connection and they all love the move and never wanted to be in the Big Ten.
It remains to be seen, but if it's a four conference plan, I still think the Big 12 is far better positioned than the ACC. They have legitimate NC contenders in football. As long as football is the main player, the ACC will always be second tier, especially if FSU and Clemson are looking at moving on.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 28, 2012, 09:29:59 AM
It remains to be seen, but if it's a four conference plan, I still think the Big 12 is far better positioned than the ACC. They have legitimate NC contenders in football. As long as football is the main player, the ACC will always be second tier, especially if FSU and Clemson are looking at moving on.
Dude... Not sure what you have been watching. ACC has FAR more football power than the Big12. All they have left is OK and TX. Those are big players (and really it is mostly TX) but ACC has MUCH more money than the Big12. Once Texas leaves (and it will), the Big12 is over.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on November 28, 2012, 09:16:39 AM
AnotherMU, I know a bunch of ND alums that would disagree. I kinda do too. ACC is still part of the four mega conference plan (Big10, SEC, ACC, and PAC12). ND still keeps TV contracts and stays independant for football while joining a stronger basketball conference. ACC is still primarily east coast. Since ND will always be a recruiting power for football in the midwest, it strengthens its reach into the east and southeast. As far as the agreement to play 5 ACC games, that doesn't mean much since they already played 4 this year (Miami, Pitt, Wake, and Boston College). Just not sure how you are seeing that the egg is now in ND's face. I think they did a smart move for themselves.
And the Big 12?
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 28, 2012, 09:29:59 AM
It remains to be seen, but if it's a four conference plan, I still think the Big 12 is far better positioned than the ACC. They have legitimate NC contenders in football. As long as football is the main player, the ACC will always be second tier, especially if FSU and Clemson are looking at moving on.
This. OU & Texas > Florida St and Clemson (or Miami, whatever f*** you), and it's not even close
I think we need to see where the chips fall in terms of which teams are left standing in the ACC once the realignments are done before we can decide if ND made the right decision or not. I think Swarbrick putting his team up to chance here may end up getting him burned...IF the ACC loses FSU and Clemson I think ND regrets their decision...
Quote from: ErickJD08 on November 28, 2012, 09:37:02 AM
Dude... Not sure what you have been watching. ACC has FAR more football power than the Big12. All they have left is OK and TX. Those are big players (and really it is mostly TX) but ACC has MUCH more money than the Big12. Once Texas leaves (and it will), the Big12 is over.
No, they don't. And you could say the same thing about the ACC and FSU (UT leaving). But even then, the ACC doesn't have an OU to stand on. I'm not saying the Big 12 will stay intact - believe me, the longer they don't add someone the more I'm getting nervous about the PAC - but these statements aren't true at all.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on November 28, 2012, 09:37:02 AM
Dude... Not sure what you have been watching. ACC has FAR more football power than the Big12. All they have left is OK and TX. Those are big players (and really it is mostly TX) but ACC has MUCH more money than the Big12. Once Texas leaves (and it will), the Big12 is over.
Uhh...really? So that whole K-State being #1 this year thing didn't happen? And OSU wasn't 1 game away from playing in the title game last year? It's pretty much public knowledge that FSU is angling out of the ACC, and Clemson seems likely to follow. Who do they have that's a legit championship contender? And no, No Dick does not count.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on November 28, 2012, 09:37:02 AM
Dude... Not sure what you have been watching. ACC has FAR more football power than the Big12. All they have left is OK and TX. Those are big players (and really it is mostly TX) but ACC has MUCH more money than the Big12. Once Texas leaves (and it will), the Big12 is over.
Oh no. This isn't the case at all. Kansas State is better than any ACC team this year. Texas and Oklahoma are national powers that can only be matched by Florida State. Plus there is much less "bad football" in the Big 12 - Kansas and Iowa State are bad....but Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, Duke, etc. are just not good football programs.
But ND is still sitting pretty. They are better off in the ACC than the BE, and can always leave to go somewhere else if they had too. I think the reports of the ACC "blowing up" are exaggerated, and even if some schools do leave, if they end up adding UConn and others as replacements, they are still in a conference that is upgraded from the Big East.
Quote from: Aughnanure on November 28, 2012, 09:40:25 AM
This. OU & Texas > Florida St and Clemson (or Miami, whatever f*** you), and it's not even close
ACC has ND, FSU, The U, and Clemson. And Big12 has OU and TX, that's it. Its funny that you proving my point. FSU and Clemson haven't left the ACC and will not. Therefore, if the music stops now, it would be Big10, ACC, SEC, and PAC12. ACC is better positioned right now... sorry.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on November 28, 2012, 09:51:42 AM
ACC has ND, FSU, The U, and Clemson. And Big12 has OU and TX, that's it. Its funny that you proving my point. FSU and Clemson haven't left the ACC and will not. Therefore, if the music stops now, it would be Big10, ACC, SEC, and PAC12. ACC is better positioned right now... sorry.
Miami? Do you realize how poor that program has gotten? Not just in terms of money, but attendance, and any sort of interest?
And Clemson is not in the same world as Texas and Oklahoma. If you include Clemson, you have to give the Big 12 Oklahoma State, West Virginia (who creamed Clemson in the Orange Bowl), and TCU.
And you can't include Notre Dame because they don't play football in the conference. That would be like the Big East claiming Notre Dame this year.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on November 28, 2012, 09:51:42 AM
ACC has ND, FSU, The U, and Clemson. And Big12 has OU and TX, that's it. Its funny that you proving my point. FSU and Clemson haven't left the ACC and will not. Therefore, if the music stops now, it would be Big10, ACC, SEC, and PAC12. ACC is better positioned right now... sorry.
ACC does not have Notre Dame.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2012, 09:55:11 AM
Miami? Do you realize how poor that program has gotten? Not just in terms of money, but attendance, and any sort of interest?
And Clemson is not in the same world as Texas and Oklahoma. If you include Clemson, you have to give the Big 12 Oklahoma State, West Virginia (who creamed Clemson in the Orange Bowl), and TCU.
And you can't include Notre Dame because they don't play football in the conference. That would be like the Big East claiming Notre Dame this year.
And Kansas St... and since when is Clemson even in the conversation with Oklahoma?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2012, 09:51:14 AM
Oh no. This isn't the case at all. Kansas State is better than any ACC team this year. Texas and Oklahoma are national powers that can only be matched by Florida State. Plus there is much less "bad football" in the Big 12 - Kansas and Iowa State are bad....but Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, Duke, etc. are just not good football programs.
But ND is still sitting pretty. They are better off in the ACC than the BE, and can always leave to go somewhere else if they had too. I think the reports of the ACC "blowing up" are exaggerated, and even if some schools do leave, if they end up adding UConn and others as replacements, they are still in a conference that is upgraded from the Big East.
I agree with most here. But Kansas State is a flash in the pan. WV looks to take a dive after Geno leaves. Baylor has taken a dive after RGIII. Remember, Baylor was one of the worst teams in college football until RGIII came along.
Also, look at reach. A third of the schools are in Texas and about two thirds in three states. No body really watches Iowa State, TCU, or Texas Tech. If you didn't go to that specific Texas school, people are Texas fans. The truth is that if Texas leaves, the whole conference is over. That is why Texas basically commands all the power in the Big12 and that is a big reason why no big football school wants to go to the Big12. They don't want to become Texas's lil b&*^% because they can go to another conference and command more power.
Quote from: Aughnanure on November 28, 2012, 09:58:42 AM
ACC does not have Notre Dame.
Bottom line is this. This isn't about records, t-shirt sales, or Heismans. This is about TV deals. That is where all the money is at. ND football is still independant but it still plays 5 ACC games which potientially 3 will go on TV outside of NBC which means millions of dollars. ACC spans across the entire east coast which grabs NYC, Boston, and millions of other viewers. Miami sucks. They really do. But if they become good again millions will watch because they have a solid brand name. Same with Boston College. That is the bottomline. If FSU leaves, it would be a big blow to the ACC but until then, they have a solid conference to be that fourth conference in the super conference. BUT, even if FSU leaves, it would not be the death nell that is Texas leaving the Big12.
ND did not screw themselves at all. Jack is a brilliant man in this industry and they are setup very well. They don't have to join officially for a few years, they can switch at any time with no penalty right now. Any conference would love to have them. They are in wonderful shape and control their own destiny.
You all are judging the ACC based on its make-up today.
The ACC ND joined in September no longer has Maryland and now has Louisville.
Soon Miami and Fla State will join the SEC and they will be replaced by Cincy and Uconn
Then UNC or Virginia will jump to the B10.
When (not if) all this happens, still think ND will love the ACC. They will have joined the Big East with a different name.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 28, 2012, 10:52:54 AM
You all are judging the ACC based on its make-up today.
The ACC ND joined in September no longer has Maryland and now has Louisville.
Soon Miami and Fla State will join the SEC and they will be replaced by Cincy and Uconn
Then UNC or Virginia will jump to the B10.
When (not if) all this happens, still think ND will love the ACC. They will have joined the Big East with a different name.
Tons of ifs. I still don't think FSU and Miami will go to the SEC because quite frankly, I don't think SEC wants them. Specifically Florida. I think FL likes to be the SEC in town. As far as the Maryland/Louisville swap, isn't that a win for the ACC? Maryland has a garbage football team and average basketball team and Louisville has a bad football team and very good basketball team, right?
I don't think UNC and Virginia will jump either. You are right though, IF FSU, Miami, and UNC leave the ACC, it will be much weaker conference for football make up. Big IFs though.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on November 28, 2012, 11:10:56 AM
Tons of ifs. I still don't think FSU and Miami will go to the SEC because quite frankly, I don't think SEC wants them. Specifically Florida. I think FL likes to be the SEC in town. As far as the Maryland/Louisville swap, isn't that a win for the ACC? Maryland has a garbage football team and average basketball team and Louisville has a bad football team and very good basketball team, right?
I don't think UNC and Virginia will jump either. You are right though, IF FSU, Miami, and UNC leave the ACC, it will be much weaker conference for football make up. Big IFs though.
Remember that ND did not join as a football member. So the strength of the ACC in football is irrelevant. That said, the Maryland/Louisville swap is bad for ND.
They want to be part of a conference of highly thought of east coast universities, which the Big East was not. They like the academic reputation of the ACC and they want to extend their brand east, where they get a lot of students.
So swapping a well regarding Maryland for a semi-criminal organization in Louisville is not what Swabrick envisioned when he signed up just three months ago. Further diluting the "east coast" brand by losing UNC/Virginia/Miami/Fla State only makes the ACC more unattractive for ND.
I don't know what will happen next, as I'm guessing like everyone else. But this is not close to being over.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 28, 2012, 11:21:54 AM
Remember that ND did not join as a football member. So the strength of the ACC in football is irrelevant. That said, the Maryland/Louisville swap is bad for ND.
They want to be part of a conference of highly thought of east coast universities, which the Big East was not. They like the academic reputation of the ACC and they want to extend their brand east, where they get a lot of students.
So swapping a well regarding Maryland for a semi-criminal organization in Louisville is not what Swabrick envisioned when he signed up just three months ago. Further diluting the "east coast" brand by losing UNC/Virginia/Miami/Fla State only makes the ACC more unattractive for ND.
I don't know what will happen next, as I'm guessing like everyone else. But this is not close to being over.
HA... I don't think Swabrick cares about criminal since he is joining the same conference as FSU, Miami, and UNC. And even though they are still "independent" ND still strengthens the ACC football conference (money-wise) because they guaranteed 5 ACC games every year AND if this crap really turns into a 4 super conference thing (which I hate the thought of), ND's logical landing spot is the ACC at this stage. Who knows though. All I know is MU is screwed.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 28, 2012, 10:52:54 AM
You all are judging the ACC based on its make-up today.
The ACC ND joined in September no longer has Maryland and now has Louisville.
Soon Miami and Fla State will join the SEC and they will be replaced by Cincy and Uconn
Then UNC or Virginia will jump to the B10.
When (not if) all this happens, still think ND will love the ACC. They will have joined the Big East with a different name.
They got off a sinking ship, the Big East. They went from a conference with ONE prestigious academic university to one with 7. ND likes that stuff. They get to keep football independent, ND likes that stuff. Where else was ND supposed to go where they could upgrade their academic partners, keep their football independence? The Big Ten won't allow for the independence. And, by the way, they move their brand even more east into markets they covet. If it doesn't work out, they will have options. They are Notre Dame.
They did not screw themselves by any stretch. That's Notre Dame hate talking and not reality. They control their destiny more than 99% of schools in this country and the fact that they are playing for a national title in football in a month only strengthens their hand. Swarbrick isn't stupid and neither is ND in general. Quite frankly, this is one situation where I am quite happy to have a ND guy as athletic director because those connections might be a lifeline we need.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 28, 2012, 11:39:20 AM
They got off a sinking ship, the Big East. They went from a conference with ONE prestigious academic university to one with 7. ND likes that stuff. They get to keep football independent, ND likes that stuff. Where else was ND supposed to go where they could upgrade their academic partners, keep their football independence? The Big Ten won't allow for the independence. And, by the way, they move their brand even more east into markets they covet. If it doesn't work out, they will have options. They are Notre Dame.
They did not screw themselves by any stretch. That's Notre Dame hate talking and not reality. They control their destiny more than 99% of schools in this country and the fact that they are playing for a national title in football in a month only strengthens their hand. Swarbrick isn't stupid and neither is ND in general. Quite frankly, this is one situation where I am quite happy to have a ND guy as athletic director because those connections might be a lifeline we need.
Never thought about this angle. As a big MU basketball fan, I will take all the help we can get to prevent us from being the last person standing in this conference re-alignment/musical chairs.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on November 28, 2012, 12:29:54 PM
Never thought about this angle. As a big MU basketball fan, I will take all the help we can get to prevent us from being the last person standing in this conference re-alignment/musical chairs.
If we do end up in a good spot and it's because of the ND connections, a lot of people will have to swallow some pride around here. Of course, for some I am sure anything short of being invited to play in the NBA for hoops and the MLS for our soccer programs will be because LW is an idiot and went to ND. In large part, we're going to be along for part of the ride here since we don't carry many cards, but at least we are in a better position than some others. I'm sure LW, FP, other influential types are being as proactive as they can, but they also need to be careful not just to jump at the first thing that comes down the pike. It may be that the best place is to stay where we are depending on what else happens and who can be added, merged, purged, etc.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 28, 2012, 12:35:21 PM
If we do end up in a good spot and it's because of the ND connections, a lot of people will have to swallow some pride around here. Of course, for some I am sure anything short of being invited to play in the NBA for hoops and the MLS for our soccer programs will be because LW is an idiot and went to ND. In large part, we're going to be along for part of the ride here since we don't carry many cards, but at least we are in a better position than some others. I'm sure LW, FP, other influential types are being as proactive as they can, but they also need to be careful not just to jump at the first thing that comes down the pike. It may be that the best place is to stay where we are depending on what else happens and who can be added, merged, purged, etc.
MLS? Pfft.
Premiere League, or LW is a total failure,
Quote from: Pakuni on November 28, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
MLS? Pfft.
Premiere League, or LW is a total failure,
Well played