So, if Louisville goes to the ACC, so be it.
Now, if you are the 7 bball only schools. Dont vote to disband. Instead start adding you choice bball only schools.
Go for schools like:
xavier
gonzaga
Make the remaining football schools want to bolt and have to pay the exit fee. Keep the big east name. Get the exit fees and also get to the bball only goal.
The problem is football and the football schools drive the bus.
That wont happen because the basketball schools now have the leverage to vote to dissolve given the departure of Louisville. If they dont exercise it, the bball schools will be forced to stay (the football schools have no incentive to leave).
So here is what will happen:
In lieu of dissolving the conference, the BBall schools will receive the Name, Basketball Records, and MSG Rights for the tourney.
Quote from: Knight Commission on November 28, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
That wont happen because the basketball schools now have the leverage to vote to dissolve given the departure of Louisville. If they dont exercise it, the bball schools will be forced to stay (the football schools have no incentive to leave).
So here is what will happen:
In lieu of dissolving the conference, the BBall schools will receive the Name, Basketball Records, and MSG Rights for the tourney.
Can the bball only schools vote to get rid of the recent football additions?( rescind the invitations to UCF, SMU, Boise St, San Diego St, Houston, and Tulane) Why then would the other football schools want to stay? They already want to leave for greener pastures? Uconn, cincy etc want out bad. I dont see that changing because Lousiville left...
Quote from: Knight Commission on November 28, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
So here is what will happen:
In lieu of dissolving the conference, the BBall schools will receive the Name, Basketball Records, and MSG Rights for the tourney.
Actually that is a big deal.
Then the bball only schools can turn to other bball schools and say join us because no matter what the FB schools do, we will always be the BE with all the trappings that go with it ... including the TV contract!
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 28, 2012, 08:35:36 AM
Actually that is a big deal.
Then the bball only schools can turn to other bball schools and say join us because no matter what the FB schools do, we will always be the BE with all the trappings that go with it ... including the TV contract!
I agree but the bball only schools need to go further.
Rescind the invitations to UCF, SMU, Boise St, San Diego St, Houston, and Tulane ASAP
Get the best possible BBall only schools together that you can after that.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 28, 2012, 08:24:29 AM
The problem is football and the football schools drive the bus.
The Big East Conference was structured so that the basketball schools are not entirely at the mercy of the football schools. I don't know if that means that the basketball schools have veto power or perhaps 51% of the voting power, collectively, but if the football schools did drive the bus, they would have excused the basketball schools 2-3 years ago. Perhaps that's the reason that football schools are so willing to leave the BE at the drop of a hat... because they want to go to a conference where football drives the bus. Or maybe - regardless of football - they're so upset that the smallest institution in the conference (who happens to be a basketball school) has conveniently wielded the most power since day 1.
A national basketball conference might be inevitable. It may take on a different name, but organizationally, it will still be the Big East Conference.
Quote from: Knight Commission on November 28, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
That wont happen because the basketball schools now have the leverage to vote to dissolve given the departure of Louisville. If they dont exercise it, the bball schools will be forced to stay (the football schools have no incentive to leave).
So here is what will happen:
In lieu of dissolving the conference, the BBall schools will receive the Name, Basketball Records, and MSG Rights for the tourney.
This is what I want. Kick out the new additions as well!
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 28, 2012, 08:35:36 AM
Actually that is a big deal.
Then the bball only schools can turn to other bball schools and say join us because no matter what the FB schools do, we will always be the BE with all the trappings that go with it ... including the TV contract!
Yep. I blind man can see it. Assuming the BBall schools determine that BCS football money isn't available, the very next rung on the ladder (and better in many ways), is to be the absolute DESTINATION for basketball-only universities. With MSG, the BEast name and the history, the world beats a path to our door. And it's May 31, 1979 all over again.
Quote from: jsglow on November 28, 2012, 09:34:02 AM
Yep. I blind man can see it. Assuming the BBall schools determine that BCS football money isn't available, the very next rung on the ladder (and better in many ways), is to be the absolute DESTINATION for basketball-only universities. With MSG, the BEast name and the history, the world beats a path to our door. And it's May 31, 1979 all over again.
If you think schools are going to "beat a path to your door" for the privilege of insecurity, instability, no TV contract, no conference tournament, and the chance many of those same schools in a newfangled conference bolt once again as soon as they see something better, I want the same liquor you are drinking.
You wont be raiding the A10, but the A10 might raid you -- if you're that fortunate. The A10 is stability in a sea of chaos. They have no reason or urgency to leave. More money wont put them over the top because theyve been stretching a dollar all their lives. That's their normal. They are used to making the Big Dance on a shoestring budget -- and have done quite well for themselves.
If you believe all the BE basketball schools have to do is yell "jump", and the A10 schools will respond with "How high?", you are seriously over-estimating your negotiating position in this giant mess. The A10 schools have the high ground. They dont NEED you. They might want you, but NEEDING and WANTING are two entirely different things. You NEED the A10 schools however if you cut bait with football. Big difference.
While you guys were sitting around counting the checks the last 6-7 years, the A10 was busy trying to position themselves as the best basketball-only conference. They never tried to be something they were not. They didn't sit still. They added Butler and VCU and St. Louis. They never twiddled thumbs waiting on conference collapses to snag a Georgetown.
Five years ago, some of the A10 schools might have listened to your plea to form a new hoops only league. But you were too busy counting benjamins. That ship has sailed, my friend. There may or may not be a collective empowerment between the Big East and A10, but if there is, it will be on the A10's terms.
The A10 has the luxury of doing nothing and remaining relevant, secure, stable, and collectively united among all of its member institutions in a common goal. Unfortunately, you don't have that option. Your re-invention requires a lifeboat someone else must provide. And when someone else provides it, its not your position to demand hot towels and a wine list.
The Big East name means nothing now. The value was not in the name, but the value of the institutions within it. That's gone now. With Barclays Arena committed to the A10, MSG is no longer the carrot it once was. And history? History is for historians. That and a cup of coffee won't get you far, and it certainly won't get you into the BIG12 or ACC as a basketball-only member -- as some delusional fans on here are trying to talk themselves into.
Many of you are right in this sense: you are second class citizens in the Big East and have been for years. You cashed the paychecks, but were otherwise red-headed stepchildren. Your say never counted at the board meetings and you were to be seen and not heard. Football drove the bus and basketball was back-burner. But you should have seen this coming a long time ago. You waited far too long. Instead of being proactive and guaranteeing your own autonomy, nothing mattered as long as the checks didnt bounce. From the very beginning you never had a hand on the wheel -- and no conference should ever be run without all hands steering together in the same direction.
The A10 has always had that luxury. And member institutions are not in any hurry to jump ship in 50-foot seas when the boat ain't leaking. It might not be the fastest or prettiest ship on the high seas, but she's not foundering, and that's quite impressive given the current climate.
If you truly believe you hold the cards, why the panic? Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.
Quote from: UDPride on November 28, 2012, 12:08:54 PM
If you think schools are going to "beat a path to your door" for the privilege of insecurity, instability, no TV contract, no conference tournament, and the chance many of those same schools in a newfangled conference bolt once again as soon as they see something better, I want the same liquor you are drinking.
You wont be raiding the A10, but the A10 might raid you -- if you're that fortunate. The A10 is stability in a sea of chaos. They have no reason or urgency to leave. More money wont put them over the top because theyve been stretching a dollar all their lives. That's their normal. They are used to making the Big Dance on a shoestring budget -- and have done quite well for themselves.
If you believe all the BE basketball schools have to do is yell "jump", and the A10 schools will respond with "How high?", you are seriously over-estimating your negotiating position in this giant mess. The A10 schools have the high ground. They dont NEED you. They might want you, but NEEDING and WANTING are two entirely different things. You NEED the A10 schools however if you cut bait with football. Big difference.
While you guys were sitting around counting the checks the last 6-7 years, the A10 was busy trying to position themselves as the best basketball-only conference. They never tried to be something they were not. They didn't sit still. They added Butler and VCU and St. Louis. They never twiddled thumbs waiting on conference collapses to snag a Georgetown.
Five years ago, some of the A10 schools might have listened to your plea to form a new hoops only league. But you were too busy counting benjamins. That ship has sailed, my friend. There may or may not be a collective empowerment between the Big East and A10, but if there is, it will be on the A10's terms.
The A10 has the luxury of doing nothing and remaining relevant, secure, stable, and collectively united among all of its member institutions in a common goal. Unfortunately, you don't have that option. Your re-invention requires a lifeboat someone else must provide. And when someone else provides it, its not your position to demand hot towels and a wine list.
The Big East name means nothing now. The value was not in the name, but the value of the institutions within it. That's gone now. With Barclays Arena committed to the A10, MSG is no longer the carrot it once was. And history? History is for historians. That and a cup of coffee won't get you far, and it certainly won't get you into the BIG12 or ACC as a basketball-only member -- as some delusional fans on here are trying to talk themselves into.
Many of you are right in this sense: you are second class citizens in the Big East and have been for years. You cashed the paychecks, but were otherwise red-headed stepchildren. Your say never counted at the board meetings and you were to be seen and not heard. Football drove the bus and basketball was back-burner. But you should have seen this coming a long time ago. You waited far too long. Instead of being proactive and guaranteeing your own autonomy, nothing mattered as long as the checks didnt bounce. From the very beginning you never had a hand on the wheel -- and no conference should ever be run without all hands steering together in the same direction.
The A10 has always had that luxury. And member institutions are not in any hurry to jump ship in 50-foot seas when the boat ain't leaking. It might not be the fastest or prettiest ship on the high seas, but she's not foundering, and that's quite impressive given the current climate.
If you truly believe you hold the cards, why the panic? Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.
Its not time for the a10 to panic yet. They are too far down the pecking order. Their time will come.
Quote from: M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS on November 28, 2012, 12:10:23 PM
Its not time for the a10 to panic yet. They are too far down the pecking order.
Yep.
A lot of leagues aren't worried, because they're really not that relevant.
BEAST hoops schools need to merge with the A10 and form 2 divisions. host the tourney in Brooklyn or MSG, whichever. the inventory of games and monopoly on east coast hoops would make it profitable and could get a decent TV deal.
Quote from: UDPride on November 28, 2012, 12:08:54 PM
Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.
You're right. MU has way more at stake at this point, because it has been in a better situation than UD, or any A10 school for years. It's natural to worry.
Glad you're comfortable in your mediocrity. Thanks for stopping by.
Quote from: JTBMU7 on November 28, 2012, 12:16:01 PM
BEAST hoops schools need to merge with the A10 and form 2 divisions. host the tourney in Brooklyn or MSG, whichever. the inventory of games and monopoly on east coast hoops would make it profitable and could get a decent TV deal.
Interesting throw-in. To HS kids coming up, being able to play in Jay Z's Barclays Center is going to be a lot more impressive than playing in dingy, old MSG.
Quote from: UDPride on November 28, 2012, 12:08:54 PM
If you think schools are going to "beat a path to your door" for the privilege of insecurity, instability, no TV contract, no conference tournament, and the chance many of those same schools in a newfangled conference bolt once again as soon as they see something better, I want the same liquor you are drinking.
You wont be raiding the A10, but the A10 might raid you -- if you're that fortunate. The A10 is stability in a sea of chaos. They have no reason or urgency to leave. More money wont put them over the top because theyve been stretching a dollar all their lives. That's their normal. They are used to making the Big Dance on a shoestring budget -- and have done quite well for themselves.
If you believe all the BE basketball schools have to do is yell "jump", and the A10 schools will respond with "How high?", you are seriously over-estimating your negotiating position in this giant mess. The A10 schools have the high ground. They dont NEED you. They might want you, but NEEDING and WANTING are two entirely different things. You NEED the A10 schools however if you cut bait with football. Big difference.
While you guys were sitting around counting the checks the last 6-7 years, the A10 was busy trying to position themselves as the best basketball-only conference. They never tried to be something they were not. They didn't sit still. They added Butler and VCU and St. Louis. They never twiddled thumbs waiting on conference collapses to snag a Georgetown.
Five years ago, some of the A10 schools might have listened to your plea to form a new hoops only league. But you were too busy counting benjamins. That ship has sailed, my friend. There may or may not be a collective empowerment between the Big East and A10, but if there is, it will be on the A10's terms.
The A10 has the luxury of doing nothing and remaining relevant, secure, stable, and collectively united among all of its member institutions in a common goal. Unfortunately, you don't have that option. Your re-invention requires a lifeboat someone else must provide. And when someone else provides it, its not your position to demand hot towels and a wine list.
The Big East name means nothing now. The value was not in the name, but the value of the institutions within it. That's gone now. With Barclays Arena committed to the A10, MSG is no longer the carrot it once was. And history? History is for historians. That and a cup of coffee won't get you far, and it certainly won't get you into the BIG12 or ACC as a basketball-only member -- as some delusional fans on here are trying to talk themselves into.
Many of you are right in this sense: you are second class citizens in the Big East and have been for years. You cashed the paychecks, but were otherwise red-headed stepchildren. Your say never counted at the board meetings and you were to be seen and not heard. Football drove the bus and basketball was back-burner. But you should have seen this coming a long time ago. You waited far too long. Instead of being proactive and guaranteeing your own autonomy, nothing mattered as long as the checks didnt bounce. From the very beginning you never had a hand on the wheel -- and no conference should ever be run without all hands steering together in the same direction.
The A10 has always had that luxury. And member institutions are not in any hurry to jump ship in 50-foot seas when the boat ain't leaking. It might not be the fastest or prettiest ship on the high seas, but she's not foundering, and that's quite impressive given the current climate.
If you truly believe you hold the cards, why the panic? Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.
So, you're saying MU should have turned down the money and the invite to the BE in 2005 and do what exactly? No way do I think MU made the wrong call on the Big East or that they should have settled for mediocrity at that time. It was a great move for the program. I'd take 7 years in the Big East over 70 years in the A-10.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on November 28, 2012, 12:24:03 PM
Interesting throw-in. To HS kids coming up, being able to play in Jay Z's Barclays Center is going to be a lot more impressive than playing in dingy, old MSG.
yep. that's where the A10 tournament is hosted/will be hosted for a while. So if we are saying MSG is a perk/draw of being in the BEAST, it's not a huge step down to play better teams across town in a newer arena.
to me, a merger between the two conferences could/would work..
Quote from: UDPride on November 28, 2012, 12:08:54 PM
If you truly believe you hold the cards, why the panic? Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.
We're panicking because we might have to join the A10.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2012, 01:08:20 PM
We're panicking because we might have to join the A10.
Hope this helps.
+1
Quote from: UDPride on November 28, 2012, 12:08:54 PM
If you think schools are going to "beat a path to your door" for the privilege of insecurity, instability, no TV contract, no conference tournament, and the chance many of those same schools in a newfangled conference bolt once again as soon as they see something better, I want the same liquor you are drinking.
You wont be raiding the A10, but the A10 might raid you -- if you're that fortunate. The A10 is stability in a sea of chaos. They have no reason or urgency to leave. More money wont put them over the top because theyve been stretching a dollar all their lives. That's their normal. They are used to making the Big Dance on a shoestring budget -- and have done quite well for themselves.
If you believe all the BE basketball schools have to do is yell "jump", and the A10 schools will respond with "How high?", you are seriously over-estimating your negotiating position in this giant mess. The A10 schools have the high ground. They dont NEED you. They might want you, but NEEDING and WANTING are two entirely different things. You NEED the A10 schools however if you cut bait with football. Big difference.
...
The A10 has the luxury of doing nothing and remaining relevant, secure, stable, and collectively united among all of its member institutions in a common goal. Unfortunately, you don't have that option. Your re-invention requires a lifeboat someone else must provide. And when someone else provides it, its not your position to demand hot towels and a wine list.
The Big East name means nothing now. The value was not in the name, but the value of the institutions within it. That's gone now. With Barclays Arena committed to the A10, MSG is no longer the carrot it once was. And history? History is for historians. That and a cup of coffee won't get you far, and it certainly won't get you into the BIG12 or ACC as a basketball-only member -- as some delusional fans on here are trying to talk themselves into.
It'll be fun when we grab Xavier and Butler and leave the rest of the scrapheap to you. Are we really supposed to be jealous of the A10 now?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2012, 01:08:20 PM
We're panicking because we might have to join the A10.
Hope this helps.
Actually, we're panicking because that's what Scoop does best. For further reading see: "Thread, Everlasting Craptastical," pgs. 4-79
If the Flyers are judging the state of the Big East based upon the temperature of MUScoop.com, then perhaps we don't want UD in the Super-Awesome Basketball Conference.
Dayton is in Ohio. 'Nuff said.
I love the great distraction UDPride caused. :)
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on November 28, 2012, 01:54:48 PM
I love the great distraction UDPride caused. :)
Does it make you long for the days of SMU18?
Quote from: UDPride on November 28, 2012, 12:08:54 PM
If you think schools are going to "beat a path to your door" for the privilege of insecurity, instability, no TV contract, no conference tournament, and the chance many of those same schools in a newfangled conference bolt once again as soon as they see something better, I want the same liquor you are drinking.
You wont be raiding the A10, but the A10 might raid you -- if you're that fortunate. The A10 is stability in a sea of chaos. They have no reason or urgency to leave. More money wont put them over the top because theyve been stretching a dollar all their lives. That's their normal. They are used to making the Big Dance on a shoestring budget -- and have done quite well for themselves.
If you believe all the BE basketball schools have to do is yell "jump", and the A10 schools will respond with "How high?", you are seriously over-estimating your negotiating position in this giant mess. The A10 schools have the high ground. They dont NEED you. They might want you, but NEEDING and WANTING are two entirely different things. You NEED the A10 schools however if you cut bait with football. Big difference.
While you guys were sitting around counting the checks the last 6-7 years, the A10 was busy trying to position themselves as the best basketball-only conference. They never tried to be something they were not. They didn't sit still. They added Butler and VCU and St. Louis. They never twiddled thumbs waiting on conference collapses to snag a Georgetown.
Five years ago, some of the A10 schools might have listened to your plea to form a new hoops only league. But you were too busy counting benjamins. That ship has sailed, my friend. There may or may not be a collective empowerment between the Big East and A10, but if there is, it will be on the A10's terms.
The A10 has the luxury of doing nothing and remaining relevant, secure, stable, and collectively united among all of its member institutions in a common goal. Unfortunately, you don't have that option. Your re-invention requires a lifeboat someone else must provide. And when someone else provides it, its not your position to demand hot towels and a wine list.
The Big East name means nothing now. The value was not in the name, but the value of the institutions within it. That's gone now. With Barclays Arena committed to the A10, MSG is no longer the carrot it once was. And history? History is for historians. That and a cup of coffee won't get you far, and it certainly won't get you into the BIG12 or ACC as a basketball-only member -- as some delusional fans on here are trying to talk themselves into.
Many of you are right in this sense: you are second class citizens in the Big East and have been for years. You cashed the paychecks, but were otherwise red-headed stepchildren. Your say never counted at the board meetings and you were to be seen and not heard. Football drove the bus and basketball was back-burner. But you should have seen this coming a long time ago. You waited far too long. Instead of being proactive and guaranteeing your own autonomy, nothing mattered as long as the checks didnt bounce. From the very beginning you never had a hand on the wheel -- and no conference should ever be run without all hands steering together in the same direction.
The A10 has always had that luxury. And member institutions are not in any hurry to jump ship in 50-foot seas when the boat ain't leaking. It might not be the fastest or prettiest ship on the high seas, but she's not foundering, and that's quite impressive given the current climate.
If you truly believe you hold the cards, why the panic? Nobody in the A10 is panicking. Your stress level tells me all I need to know about where the leverage really is.
Yikes...inferiority complex, anyone?
It's a bit harsh, but a lot of what he says is true. Everyone assumes Xavier and Butler would crawl across broken glass to join a hoops-only Big East. Maybe they would, but it's not a given. The A-10 is a nice, stable conference with it's tourney at Brooklyn's Barclays Center. That's not too bad.
There's no guarantee Marquette, Georgetown, etc. will keep the Big East name. And there's no guarantee the tourney will remain at MSG. (supposedly, an extension was agree to, but you have to believe there's an out-clause. As the Big East sinks, you just know the ACC is licking their chops to grab MSG. And right now, they are the much more attractive option).
We are supposed to believe that an A-10 school wouldn't want more money, more TV exposure and stop playing the likes of Fordham because they never had an opportunity to chase the benjamins.
uh huh
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 29, 2012, 05:30:06 PM
We are supposed to believe that an A-10 school wouldn't want more money, more TV exposure and stop playing the likes of Fordham because they never had an opportunity to chase the benjamins.
uh huh
Where exactly is all this mega TV money you're referencing? And what's with all this TV exposure you're talking about? At this point, the Big East is begging any network to broadcast its games...and not finding any takers. And as schools continue to flee, the sales job becomes more and more difficult.
All I'm saying is, let's not get too cocky. The A-10 could very well be MU's next home.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on November 28, 2012, 12:24:03 PM
Interesting throw-in. To HS kids coming up, being able to play in Jay Z's Barclays Center is going to be a lot more impressive than playing in dingy, old MSG.
Sorry but you don't have a clue about NYC. Brooklyn? Used to hear the same talk back in the 70's when they built that gym out in the Meadowlands. How'd that work out. Dingy old MSG is still #1 and its not even close.
Quote from: Groin_pull on November 29, 2012, 05:36:27 PM
Where exactly is all this mega TV money you're referencing? And what's with all this TV exposure you're talking about? At this point, the Big East is begging any network to broadcast its games...and not finding any takers. And as schools continue to flee, the sales job becomes more and more difficult.
All I'm saying is, let's not get too cocky. The A-10 could very well be MU's next home.
I get what this guy is trying to say. It's easy for someone in his position to sit behind a keyboard and act like a tough guy while trolling another fanbase on a messageboard. And as well worded as his diatribe is, his entire premise is so flawed it's laughable.
We're the "redheaded stepchildren" and are "second class citizens" in our own conference. This same guy wrote another article on his UD Pride website about how the Big East titanic has hit an iceberg and how all of the 7 non-football schools are completely and totally screwed.
That is exactly where his premise is flawed:
What is probably going to happen is the 7 non-football BE schools and some portion of the A-10 merge into an amalgamation of the two leagues. So we're so completely and utterly screwed that we're going to wind up...in a situation that would put Dayton in a better place than where they are in right now.
Quote from: MDMU04 on November 29, 2012, 06:35:18 PM
I get what this guy is trying to say. It's easy for someone in his position to sit behind a keyboard and act like a tough guy while trolling another fanbase on a messageboard. And as well worded as his diatribe is, his entire premise is so flawed it's laughable.
We're the "redheaded stepchildren" and are "second class citizens" in our own conference. This same guy wrote another article on his UD Pride website about how the Big East titanic has hit an iceberg and how all of the 7 non-football schools are completely and totally screwed.
That is exactly where his premise is flawed:
What is probably going to happen is the 7 non-football BE schools and some portion of the A-10 merge into an amalgamation of the two leagues. So we're so completely and utterly screwed that we're going to wind up...in a situation that would put Dayton in a better place than where they are in right now.
You might be right. Hopefully, a merger would happen under the Big East banner. MU, Georgetown, Villanova, DePaul, Seton Hall, St Johns, Providence, Xavier, Butler, Dayton, SLU, and Richmond or VCU may be our future.
I'll need a little time to get used to that.
Dayton is amazingly similar to Marquette, with a few advantages: on campus arena, larger endowment, and a football team (well, sort of).
And a few disadvantages: it's in Dayton, their admissions standards are weaker, and their basketball program, while decent, does not have the history, tradition, or fanfare of Marquette's.
But they do host the play in games every year. Oh, and Obama did attend a game there. Don't think he's been to a Marquette game. Yet.
http://colleges.findthebest.com/compare/3253-4608/University-of-Dayton-vs-Marquette-University
Hard to get to a Christmas game when your butt is planted in Hawaii for 3 weeks.