1) If (and let's pray to God Vander won't be out for an extended period with his injury), but if Vander can continue to perform as he did in Maui...
AND:
2) If the Jamil Wilson of the Mississippi State and USC game shows up and plays like a hungry dog...
This MU team will be VERY good - Elite 8 good..perhaps even Final Four good.
We have 2 big men better than we've had since the days of Jimmy Mac and Damon Key, and more depth/talent up and down the roster than we've had for as long as I've been following the team closesly (1985). Throw in a 3rd "If," If Todd Mayo returns - this MU team will be supremely talented.
Any one else seeing it this way - or am I being too bullish?
I don't think they have enough outside shooting to be E8 or F4 good.
Quote from: Ners on November 23, 2012, 01:19:20 PM
This MU team will be VERY good - Elite 8 good..perhaps even Final Four good.
Any one else seeing it this way - or am I being too bullish?
Too bullish. Sweet Sixteen is more realistic. Getting into the next tier is problematic in any season.
Jamil is the key to being great vs. being just good.
1) Vander injury
2) Wilson's recent play
Both are important of course, but I agree with Mayo's return. That would be the missing link and give MU that 6th man/outside shooter/scorer. Sweet 16 would be great, past that would be matchups.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 23, 2012, 01:21:53 PM
I don't think they have enough outside shooting to be E8 or F4 good.
But we have Jake Thomas Sultan. ;D Nonetheless, I agree consistent* outside shooting would seem to be the weak link on the team.
MU is 9 deep, plus Jake Thomas. I really like Jake, has a pure shooting form and against Syracuse he might be a weapon. We will see on that. The x factor to this team is Todd Mayo.
If he can get his $hit together academically, he really gives you an awesome 10 deep team. He had moments last year that he has an offensive game and would assume he is a little
better this year. With him, there might not be the lapses on the O end as he did score about 10 a game. Vander does not have the game in my opinion can do it night in and night out.
Inside they will score, the wings are solid but need consistency, Junior and Derrick are OK, so Vander is a key but with Mayo, they might be special. They have not played a Top 20 team
yet so lets see in the next few weeks how they play against Wisco and Florida. I do see improvement all year long with this team, so what you see in November, hopefully will be different
in March. I think the following year might be special if Otule is back, you are strong with Wilson, McKay and Burton, throw in Johnson, Anderson, Wilson, Blue and your looking at a potenital
Final 4 appearance. Gardner is getting better every year. I see maybe a victory for sure but do not see 2 victories the first weekend. It is the luck of the draw.
Totally agree with the X factors listed above as far as offense goes.
But, that doesn't seem to be the thing that will limit us. So far, the only good team we've played is Butler. Down the stretch in that game we really struggled defensively, to the point where Butler scored on 12 of its final 13 possessions. That's 8:03 with only one stop. If we're going to beat good teams, we've gotta get better defensively.
In that game, we got torched by Khyle Marshall, a swing player matched up with our best defenders.
Hopefully, we get better on D because it'd be fun to see this team over-achieve its way to the Sweet 16.
Jamil was out of whack that whole game, defensively he was horrible as well plus Lockett has some bone issue on his face, I am sure he was not up to par as well. Also, with
Lockett, I am sure he never played this hard in his life, so I expect huge improvement the next 3 months.
What?? Final 4? That's absurd. This team has potential but to mention Final Four is kind of ridiculous. I'm all for rooting for MU, but that's just being a biased homer.
So Mayo is sticking around and going to classes? That's great,thought he may have cashed it in.Would be great to get back in Jan.
Quote from: MUWarrior11 on November 23, 2012, 04:06:45 PM
What?? Final 4? That's absurd. This team has potential but to mention Final Four is kind of ridiculous. I'm all for rooting for MU, but that's just being a biased homer.
Potenital and being there are 2 different situations, talent might be there to get there, but luck of draw is just as critical. Maybe they have a 1 in 20 chance of getting
there, this year about 1 in 50 chance.
At this point in the year though, and even coming into the season, was there anybody in the nation that you thought Marquette couldn't beat? I'm not saying that they're going to the final 4 but the chances of making another deep run this year could be good (especially if Mayo comes back).
The number 1 team in the nation right now is Indiana...I don't think there is any person on this board who would say Marquette couldn't beat them.
This team will go as far as Junior Cadougan and a mix of Vander/Jamil can take them.
I think reaching the tournament is a VERY attainable goal for this team...however, it would be a tough uphill climb to get past the first weekend.
Given the small sample size, our ceiling is definitely not as high this year as it has been in the past few.
Only 2 "ifs"? You are confident!
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 23, 2012, 01:21:53 PM
I don't think they have enough outside shooting to be E8 or F4 good.
Yup.
At least we haven't seen it.
I really like our team but I believe getting past the first weekend of the NCAA will be a real uphill battle this year. I'll peg us as a borderline Top 25 and anticipate not having to worry on selection Sunday.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 23, 2012, 01:32:36 PM
Jamil is the key to being great vs. being just good.
I agree with this. Also, if they get Mayo back they could be a tough out come March. A lot of guys made strides in Maui. I feel better about this team than I did a week ago.
I think there are a few more "ifs" to make it to E8 or F4. I do see the potential of this team making it to E8 though. Obviously people need to stay healthy, but that goes without saying for any team. What I've been worrying about early in this season is the foul trouble. We can't be having 4 guys on our team with 4 fouls with still 12 minutes left to play -- and that's consistently been a problem for us for the past few years. Outside shooting is another concern, but we will have our days and when we're off we just have to figure another way to play. Our defense is great and if we take our transistion game to where it was last year, we will be great. Lockett is only going to get more comfortable and more of a force on offense and defense.
I'm going to stand by my previous statement which was that we are good enough for a round of 32 exit, or a sweet 16 if we catch a good bracket.
Quote from: Ners on November 23, 2012, 01:19:20 PM
1) If (and let's pray to God Vander won't be out for an extended period with his injury), but if Vander can continue to perform as he did in Maui...
AND:
2) If the Jamil Wilson of the Mississippi State and USC game shows up and plays like a hungry dog...
This MU team will be VERY good - Elite 8 good..perhaps even Final Four good.
We have 2 big men better than we've had since the days of Jimmy Mac and Damon Key, and more depth/talent up and down the roster than we've had for as long as I've been following the team closesly (1985). Throw in a 3rd "If," If Todd Mayo returns - this MU team will be supremely talented.
Any one else seeing it this way - or am I being too bullish?
Dude, what was in your cranberry sauce?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 23, 2012, 01:21:53 PM
I don't think they have enough outside shooting to be E8 or F4 good.
Always can get better (seems we always start slow shooting-wise), and we can always get hot and lucky - but yeah, our key is outside shooting, then outside shooting, and last...outside shooting.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 24, 2012, 09:38:22 AM
Dude, what was in your cranberry sauce?
Just a good shot of optimism! Seeing Vander and Jamil perform to their potential was tantalizing...
This team has more size/length and depth than any of Buzz's previous teams. Historically, Buzz's teams have played their best basketball in the last half of the season. DJO and Jae huge losses of course, but we've never had this many returning players under Buzz - think about it: Otule, Gardner, Blue, Wilson, Cadougan, Derrick Wilson, Jake Thomas....and if Mayo gets back in the mix? That's 8 guys who are in their 5th, 3rd ,3rd ,3rd ,4th ,2nd ,2nd, years in the program respectively. There is some real value in that, that we've yet to see on a Buzz team.
I think we are NCAA team but will have plenty of ups and downs. Buzz teams are always fun to watch and this year should be the same. Definitely not buy F4 tickets anytime soon.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 24, 2012, 09:38:22 AM
Dude, what was in your cranberry sauce?
Probably whatever was in mine*, because I agree with Ners' OP. I'd just add that it's not about the "IF"s, it's about the "AND"s. To get far in the tournament, all of those three items needs to happen simultaneously. If we only get 1 or 2 of those three, we might do okay, round of 32/16, perhaps, but not F4.
*FYI,
IF you aren't putting a shot or two of Triple Sec, and plenty of lime and orange zest into the cranberries, you're doing it wrong.
Just updated his post with my two cents:
Quote from: Ners on November 23, 2012, 01:19:20 PM
1) If (and let's pray to God Vander won't be out for an extended period with his injury), but if Vander can continue to perform as he did in Maui...
AND:
2) If the Jamil Wilson of the Mississippi State and USC game shows up and plays like a hungry dog...
AND:
3) If our 2 big men (who are better than we've had since the days of Jimmy Mac and Damon Key), score, defend/block shots, rebound, and control the paint like Mac and Key did
Any one else seeing it this way - or am I being too bullish?
To address Sultan's valid point, re: outside shooting, I'd just say that if Vander and Jamil are playing well, then they are hitting outside shots, or getting really nice open shots for others, whether Jake Thomas is playing bigger minutes or whether Todd Mayo is back.
I would also add that I don't think they need to be great outside shooters, but good enough to be a consistent threat.
However, one issue that I also think they have, is that they simply don't have a an A-list college player on this team. They don't have a guy who they can rely on consistently like they did last year with Jae. Buzz teams play hard and will compete, but they always seem to be undone by a team of simply better basketball players. Jamil and Vander are more like second or third options behind someone else...neither can be your A player.
At least not yet.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 24, 2012, 04:32:10 PM
I would also add that I don't think they need to be great outside shooters, but good enough to be a consistent threat.
However, one issue that I also think they have, is that they simply don't have a an A-list college player on this team. They don't have a guy who they can rely on consistently like they did last year with Jae. Buzz teams play hard and will compete, but they always seem to be undone by a team of simply better basketball players. Jamil and Vander are more like second or third options behind someone else...neither can be your A player.
At least not yet.
Someone in this core group should, even if it's next year. My hope is Juan can become that...but he's probably not ready to be that till next year. Hopefully he can be a top 4 scorer this year, maybe even top Jamil every other game or so. Seems he's gaining confidence and knows where to be at the right time.
I'll say this though, Vander is showing signs of hitting shots at some key moments. Positive signs, but it would be nice if he was #2 at best (still not ready to trust). First time in a while we don't have a Sr. leader who scores (Cadougan may lead, but he isn't that A lister we need to go far).