That quote was attributed to Jimmy Mac on the post game radio comments regarding Kevin O'Neill and his impact on the MU hoops program. I attended MU from 1984-1988 and watched the program go to hell in 4 short years. I remember sitting in a bar in Phoenix watching MU upset Kentucky under O'Neill to get to the sweet 16 and raising a glass to an accomplishment that was not even remotely real during the time I was at Marquette and thinking what a heroic and difficult task O'Neill had coming as a top assistant at U of A to build up MU's program. After that, his road map is very interesting to say the least, but, I will say this....I appreciate him for what he did to reverse the Dukiet years and bring in legitimate D-1 talent to MU and get us back on the map for college hoops. It is truly a fine line between growing the program to where we are today and ending up like Loyola or even a Bradley (both were decent programs in my day)....or hell...even a DePaul.
For all the negativity, we are in such a better place than we have been in as a basketball program and with a top 10 recruiting class arriving next fall I think we are in great shape from a basketball perspective. I only hope this conference realignment and recruitment business does not squash us from a national TV and power conference perspective.
Anyway, I, for one, give kudos to Kevin O'Neill tomorrow and will hoist one in his honor as we trample his trojans....hopefully he can take some pride in knowing he had a hand in where MU Hoops is today.
Absolute great post. The post Hank R era was really dark, and O'Neill pulled us out and made the program viable again. He was a pivotal man in MU b-ball history.
Truth.
Jimmy Mac had another great quote. "KO was a guy you swore at for 4 years and then swore by the rest of your life." KO's success was certainly a factor in Fr. Wild fully understanding the importance of MU hoops. And while Mike Deane was a bit of a placeholder, we've had decent to outstanding success ever since.
I was fortunate enough to attend that Sweet 16 weekend in Knoxville courtesy of Mark Anglavar, then an assistant coach. Great seats for MU, Big Dog, Grant Hill, followed by a night of drinking with Jimmy Mac's dad who knew his ship was about to come in.
Well said. K.O.'s first (or second?) recruiting class set the stage with Mac, Key, Logtermann, and getting Ron Curry as a transfer.
KO added a lot of color. In game his language would make a harlot blush. Afterwards, his antics were renowned for their ingenuity and ferocity
Kevin and Roberta O'Neill in Drunken Altercation with Arizona Fans & Booster
http://www.pointguardu.com/content/kevin-o-neill-drunken-altercation-arizona-fans-659/
Roberta O'Neill is a saucy Canadian temptress, 20 years Kevin's junior. Well done, KO!
http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/03/19/80105-gimino-wife-is-o-neill-s-best-defender/
Many did not like KO while at MU for what they thought boorish behavior. Despite his obvious recruiting and coaching talent his acerbic personality and fondness for drink made him the target of increasing criticism by many MU faithful. As Ners points, however, he is singularly responsible for salvaging Marquette's sinking program.
KO saved the program and forever appreciated by this fan.
I never thought I would say this given how he left, but I really hope that the MU fans give him a nice ovation during introductions. I also hope there would be some way for them to acknowledge Tony Miller, one of my all-time favorites sitting on his bench.
Quote from: Goose on November 21, 2012, 05:41:20 AM
KO saved the program and forever appreciated by this fan.
+1. KO's contributions to the program were huge at a critical time. His contributions to the annals of dickeshness were huge as well. But, hey, no one is perfect.
And for the record, Tennessee was never a step up from Marquette.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on November 21, 2012, 07:36:53 AM
+1. KO's contributions to the program were huge at a critical time. His contributions to the annals of dickeshness were huge as well. But, hey, no one is perfect.
And for the record, Tennessee was never a step up from Marquette.
No argument on Tennessee. Marquette athlètes can read and write.
On KO, if he'd stayed, we probably would have at least one additional Final Four and maybe......
He is a great coach and AMEN to the folks who recognized what KO did to revitalize MU basketball.
Hopefully KO and Buzz have a nice discussion about grass and where it may or may not be greener.
Quote from: PTM on November 21, 2012, 07:44:20 AM
Hopefully KO and Buzz have a nice discussion about grass and where it may or may not be greener.
Perhaps KO could tell him, "That Texas team is awful. Stay far, far away from Austin when Barnes is fired in a few months."
Quote from: Avenue Commons on November 21, 2012, 07:36:53 AM
+1. KO's contributions to the program were huge at a critical time. His contributions to the annals of dickeshness were huge as well. But, hey, no one is perfect.
And for the record, Tennessee was never a step up from Marquette.
And the Tennessee fans never warmed to him. He certainly didn't fit the "good ole boy" type they like in their FB and BB coaches, especially back then. And that Irish skin tone certainly didn't look good with the orange sport coat.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on November 21, 2012, 07:48:26 AM
Perhaps KO could tell him, "That Texas team is awful. Stay far, far away from Austin when Barnes is fired in a few months."
This is just silly...
Everyone knows that KO would say this: "That Texas team is f*ckin' awful. Stay far, far away from that sh*thole Austin when Barnes is fired in a few months."
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 21, 2012, 08:14:43 AM
This is just silly...
Everyone knows that KO would say this: "That Texas team is f*ckin' awful. Stay far, far away from that sh*thole Austin when Barnes is fired in a few months."
Well done.
I agree with what's said about KO's contributions.
Spose it might not be important, but I am curious about why he left. I know that he had the ability to swear like a sailor at games...loudly. However, it sounds like he rubbed some people for reasons beyond his swearing, and then left MU in a manner that didn't sit well with some.
Would someone mind elaborating?
Again, his contribution to MU resurgance is huge.
I think people were willing to put up with him. He simply thought MU hit its ceiling and that Tennessee was a better program....the problem is that he had no problem saying that to everyone including the local media.
KO revived MU basketball. More importantly, he enlivened the annual coach's lunch in Chicago. The JMac comment on being sworn at for 4 years rings true, as he would RIP his players in colorful language, including calling one player (using hysterical examples), I think Anglavar, the dumbest human being he had ever met--with the player sitting right there.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 21, 2012, 08:30:10 AM
I think people were willing to put up with him. He simply thought MU hit its ceiling and that Tennessee was a better program....the problem is that he had no problem saying that to everyone including the local media.
It was all about the scheckles. KO said you could wipe your nose with his MU contract.
4ever
Correct you are. KO was about the green and made no bones about it. He delivered the goods at MU and chased the money. Long term maybe not right decision, but sure KO has done very well for himself. He is an original.
I guess we do have to worry about history repeating itself. It is my understanding that a big reason for O'Neil leaving is that he wore himself thin with the administration. Especially, because you could hear shout profanities during games.
bilsu
KO obviously rubbed some folks the wrong way and that probably kept his contract where it was. Ultimately he chased the money and I think the #1 reason why he left.
I can remember going to the Meadowlands and watching us just get hammered by a crummy Iona team in January of 1988 and thinking that we were done as a basketball school. I had tickets to watch them play Fordham in NY (where my sister was attending) two weeks later and actually ate the tickets rather then watch us get hammered again by another crummy school (which is exactly what happened). At the time, Calhoun was just starting to get UConn going after years of being a non-entity and I thought I'd have to latch onto them.
So I will forever be grateful to KO for reviving the program.
It is fitting we are playing KO team day before Thanksgiving. Think all of us older guys are very thankful he made a stop at MU along the way.
Quote from: Goose on November 21, 2012, 08:53:03 AM
bilsu
KO obviously rubbed some folks the wrong way and that probably kept his contract where it was. Ultimately he chased the money and I think the #1 reason why he left.
If scoop were around then, then this last summer would have been Hiroshima, part deaux.
Real
Only addition would have been KO posting his gripes on Scoop. He never shied away from voicing his thoughts. Could see his posts now, calling everyone a frickin idiot and how next job offer he is gone.
I appreciate what KO did but I am pretty sure Tony Barone, Bob Huggins, Molinari, etc would have as well had they been chosen over KO. The Great Midwest conference affiliation helped recruiting.
Let us also not forget we'll also be playing against a former NBA head coach in KO (Raptors).
The dude has a good gig if he can catch the breaks at SC.
Injuries to Fontan and lack of big name recruits don't fly well when most of Hollywood's producers, directors, et al help bankroll the SC athletic department.
Quote from: Knight Commission on November 21, 2012, 09:42:38 AM
I appreciate what KO did but I am pretty sure Tony Barone, Bob Huggins etc would have as well had they been chosen over KO. The Great Midwest conference affiliation helped recruiting.
KO's best class was McIlvaine-Key-Brakes-Logtermann (and Curry and Stewart as transfers), which he landed before the formation of the Great Midwest.
What in Tony Barone's tenure at Texas A&M convinces you he would have done as well as KO?
KO not only recruited Mac, Damon and Logtermann but also recruited well enough that MU made the NIT finals and 2 more NCAAs after those guys left, without much help from Deane's recruits (save for early Lovette).
And KO didn't leave because of this or that, he left because he's KO. Look at his career. It's who he is.
We owe him a huge debt of gratitude. Huge.
Best part of that recruiting class was none of the kids had any interest in MU prior to KO arrival. I would say that was one of the single best recruiting efforts I have ever seen. Other classes might have been better but those three kids turned things around quickly. From opening thrashing from Duke at Duke to S16 those kids and KO lived a ton of life.
Quote from: Knight Commission on November 21, 2012, 09:42:38 AM
I appreciate what KO did but I am pretty sure Tony Barone, Bob Huggins, Molinari, etc would have as well had they been chosen over KO. The Great Midwest conference affiliation helped recruiting.
My God, could you imagine the Huggy Bear at Marquette?????!!!!!!
You mean, I would have to
LIKE Huggy?????
Quote from: Goose on November 21, 2012, 10:17:32 AM
Best part of that recruiting class was none of the kids had any interest in MU prior to KO arrival. I would say that was one of the single best recruiting efforts I have ever seen. Other classes might have been better but those three kids turned things around quickly. From opening thrashing from Duke at Duke to S16 those kids and KO lived a ton of life.
Speaking of his recruiting, I recall from Hoop Dreams how KO would use a Bob Bach voice over with the recruit's name inserted into the recording....the recording being a play by play done by Bach where the recruit would make the last second shot to beat ND. Priceless.
Was that KO's idea, or was that in play before KO's time?
Real
Not sure if used before but that definitely was some trick. He knew all the right buttons to push. I loved he named first kid Sean after Sean Elliot who he was recruiting for AZ.
Bubblegum in the recruit's envelope="stick with me"
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 21, 2012, 08:30:10 AM
I think people were willing to put up with him. He simply thought MU hit its ceiling and that Tennessee was a better program....the problem is that he had no problem saying that to everyone including the local media.
Agree. KO kept us relevant in a time where we weren't. That's a plus. It was also time for him to move on before he could damage the good that he brought. Thought the way he left and trashed the program was not in good taste. Others have left the program in ways that were not well done, but I don't recall anyone trashing us upon departure.
Glad he came to MU, I enjoyed interning in the department with him at the helm, thankful for his accomplishments. He has admitted himself on many occasions how out of control he was off the court and that could have turned very ugly for MU.
Can't wait to see our guys kick his team's ass today. ;D
Quote from: unforgiven on November 21, 2012, 02:33:07 AM
KO added a lot of color. In game his language would make a harlot blush. Afterwards, his antics were renowned for their ingenuity and ferocity
Many did not like KO while at MU for what they thought boorish behavior. Despite his obvious recruiting and coaching talent his acerbic personality and fondness for drink made him the target of increasing criticism by many MU faithful. As Ners points, however, he is singularly responsible for salvaging Marquette's sinking program.
"Ron (Curry), take the ball to the hole you f*cking kitten".
KO, against Memphis State w/ Penny Hardaway
PS, KO did NOT say kitten, but you already knew that.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 21, 2012, 11:47:51 AM
Agree. KO kept us relevant in a time where we weren't. That's a plus. It was also time for him to move on before he could damage the good that he brought. Thought the way he left and trashed the program was not in good taste. Others have left the program in ways that were not well done, but I don't recall anyone trashing us upon departure.
Glad he came to MU, I enjoyed interning in the department with him at the helm, thankful for his accomplishments. He has admitted himself on many occasions how out of control he was off the court and that could have turned very ugly for MU.
Can't wait to see our guys kick his team's ass today. ;D
The KO era was a little before my time. Could you give me a little history lesson and elaborate on the "trashing us upon departure" remark?
Thanks
Quote from: ringout on November 21, 2012, 11:58:31 AM
"Ron (Curry), take the ball to the hole you f*cking kitten".
KO, against Memphis State w/ Penny Hardaway
"You give my team an 'F'? I give your f*cking paper a f*cking 'Z'."
KO, to MU Tribune sports reporters when team given a game grade of 'F' after blowing 20-point lead in loss to Notre Dame.
Quote from: Zar Zar Binks on November 21, 2012, 12:02:40 PM
The KO era was a little before my time. Could you give me a little history lesson and elaborate on the "trashing us upon departure" remark?
Thanks
Trashing is a bit harsh.
Essentially, O'Neill said that under circumstances as they were at MU when he departed (i.e. mid-major conference, crappy facilities, lacking financial investment by university) that getting to an occasional Sweet Sixteen was the best the school could hope for and alums who expected a return to the glory days of Al McGuire were out of their f*cking gourd.
Remember, these comments were made at a time when O'Neill was upset (justifiably, one could argue) MU wouldn't give him a significant raise given the near miracle he performed with the program, nor would they commit to over improvements for the program.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 21, 2012, 12:07:01 PM
Trashing is a bit harsh.
Essentially, O'Neill said that under circumstances as they were at MU when he departed (i.e. mid-major conference, crappy facilities, lacking financial investment by university) that getting to an occasional Sweet Sixteen was the best the school could hopeful and alums who expected a return to the glory days of Al McGuire were out of their f*cking gourd.
Remember, these comments were made at a time when O'Neill was upset (justifiably, one could argue) MU wouldn't give him a significant raise given the near miracle he performed with the program, nor would they commit to over improvements for the program.
Was Dick Strong involved at that time? I'm pretty sure that did not support Deane, but was he tired of KO's antics, also?
Good recruiting ? He signed a center that may of not even started for his high school team and averaged only 4 points. Imagine Buzz doing that. Of couse Amal turned out to be pretty good and even made the pros. He also signed Crawford who turned out to be a pro.
Does this mean in 15 years, Scoop will finally appreciate everything Tom Crean did for Marquette even though he was a giant a$$hole?
Can you imagine if Scoop was around when and directly after KO left?
100% true. Those who are old enough, think back to what a mess MU hoops was when KO showed up. It was a joke. A fading, dusty relic. KO came in and turned the entire program around. Yes, he was arrogant and could be very crude, but he had endless energy...which MU badly needed.
Frankly, how he got any top recruits to consider MU is beyond me. Let's be honest...he didn't have a whole lot to sell.
It did help that there was a blip in in-state recruits and UW was an absolute mess at the time. And O'Neill at the time had the reputation as a fantastic recruiter when he was Lute's assistant at Arizona.
Quote from: Groin_pull on November 21, 2012, 01:17:55 PM
100% true. Those who are old enough, think back to what a mess MU hoops was when KO showed up. It was a joke. A fading, dusty relic. KO came in and turned the entire program around. Yes, he was arrogant and could be very crude, but he had endless energy...which MU badly needed.
Frankly, how he got any top recruits to consider MU is beyond me. Let's be honest...he didn't have a whole lot to sell.
Amen brother. We were so demoralized after Dukiet.
Remember the 1st ND game. We beat the NotreHomos in KO's first try, after 8? straight losses. I wanted to name a building O'Neill Hall after that.
Quote from: ringout on November 21, 2012, 01:42:29 PM
Amen brother. We were so demoralized after Dukiet.
Remember the 1st ND game. We beat the NotreHomos in KO's first try, after 8? straight losses. I wanted to name a building O'Neill Hall after that.
That was my senior year at Marquette. I can honestly say that I have never gotten more drunk, and partied later into the night, than after that game. (And that was the Saturday before final exams.)
Of course, I came real close the next Saturday, when finals were over, when we played a real good game against a top-10 Michigan team.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on November 21, 2012, 01:17:42 PM
Does this mean in 15 years, Scoop will finally appreciate everything Tom Crean did for Marquette even though he was a giant a$$hole?
Can you imagine if Scoop was around when and directly after KO left?
Big difference. Crean had everything that KO did not...facilities, upper management support, fan adolation, BIG $$ 10 year f*cking contract, etc.
I still love KO, I still hold a grudge against TC (because he signed a 10 yr contract and left after 2).
Quote from: Zar Zar Binks on November 21, 2012, 12:02:40 PM
The KO era was a little before my time. Could you give me a little history lesson and elaborate on the "trashing us upon departure" remark?
Thanks
I find it so ironic that I consider KO to be 'after my time' and that my kids ask why they are supposed to boo Crean during the highlight film prior to gametime. Getting old just sucks.
TallTitan
If Scoop was around when KO left many would have been thankful and supportive of him. He took a program off life support and did it with style...some good and some bad. Anyone who loved the program understood his role in our history early on in his time here.
As for TC, I am not an anti TC guy at all, but he pales in comparison to KO's work IMO. TC did well and I appreciate his efforts but it took a complete nut to do what KO did. To this day I still do not know why he took the job in the first place. It was beyond bad and not looking very promising. Fortunately KO was arrogant enough and talented enough to turn things around.
It a twisted way it would not break my heart if USC won today and aside from Dukiet era I never wanted us to lose one game.
If you called KO an @sshole, he'd agree with you.
If you called TC an @sshole, he would try and have your season tickets taken away.
Quote from: The Lens on November 21, 2012, 02:09:54 PM
If you called KO an @sshole, he'd agree with you.
If you called TC an @sshole, he would try and have your season tickets taken away.
Yeah, this pretty much nails it.
Kevin is a great defensive coach. Not so good offensively, but that is how he recruited. Kevin reversed the slide which was a heavy task but he couldn't and didn't want to build the program like TC did. TC did not like recruiting and is just a good game tactician. He likes the challenges of program building more than anything. Each had huge contributions. Buzz is the combo of both which is rarer.
Quote from: Zar Zar Binks on November 21, 2012, 12:02:40 PM
The KO era was a little before my time. Could you give me a little history lesson and elaborate on the "trashing us upon departure" remark?
Thanks
Some of the comments were internal so I got to hear them within the confines of the office, that's ok and happens all the time whether it is an athletics department, fortune 100 company, mom and pop shop, etc. Unfortunately some of that then spilled out beyond the walls in venues that the press wasn't there, but plenty of alumni. Not good, in my opinion.
Then there were the comments and actions that actually did make the press. The things like his contract you could wipe your nose with. You just don't say that publicly and show up your bosses and employer like that (for the record, his contract wasn't that great but he was also a first time head coach and MU gave him that chance, keep that stuff out of the public). The stuff with Tennessee and wearing a UT sweatshirt on a Marquette bus while still employed by MU...again, just not needed. There are others. Glad he was here, thankful for his accomplishments, his personality would not have allowed him to stay long which has been proven over and over again at every stop he's been at.
The Lens has it right, it's just KO being KO. His act is great for some, but he's burned his welcome out just about everywhere. He escaped getting the axe at USC a few years ago but Haden was damn pissed at this actions in a bar during the Pac 10 tournament at the time. He remains one of the funniest guys I have ever heard at a practice and also one of the most caustic. There's a line with him that blurs where you don't know if he's kidding or just being an a-hole. The entire Arizona debacle is still something that amazes me how that one was blown.
As a coach, still one of the best defensive coaches I've ever seen. He is excellent at taking the level of his talent and making them competitive with teams with better talent.
Chico's
Agreed completely on how he messed up AZ gig. That was beyond stupid.
Dr. Blackheart
I am not sure I agree on KO being defensive coach. He backed everything up to make teams take bad shots, but I like Buzz's D better. KO was recruiter and not great coach IMO.
Could someone help me? How exactly did KO blow the Arizona gig? I'd like to hear from those who know. Thanks.
How did he mess up in Arizona? My impression was that Lute Olson's illness caused some erratic behavior, and that was his ultimate downfall.
I don't think it can be overstated just how bad things were at the end of the Dukiet era. 10-18 record. Little talent. Undercurrent about dropping D1 athletics entirely. KO walked into a program that was on the precipice. If he had failed, MU would be lucky to be in the Horizon league right now.
I think people make way too much of the "O'Neill saved us from becoming Loyola".
There are three important moves that Marquette made before O'Neill stepped one foot on campus.
First, they hired an outstanding AD in Bill Cords.
Second, they committed to playing in the brand new Bradley Center.
Third, they fired Bob Dukiet.
Kevin O'Neill may have done some good things, but Marquette had already separated itself from Loyola before he got here.
Quote from: The Lens on November 21, 2012, 02:09:54 PM
If you called KO an @sshole, he'd agree with you.
If you called TC an @sshole, he would try and have your season tickets taken away.
Eloquent man, simply eloquent.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 21, 2012, 03:14:34 PM
I think people make way too much of the "O'Neill saved us from becoming Loyola".
There are three important moves that Marquette made before O'Neill stepped one foot on campus.
First, they hired an outstanding AD in Bill Cords.
Second, they committed to playing in the brand new Bradley Center.
Third, they fired Bob Dukiet.
Kevin O'Neill may have done some good things, but Marquette had already separated itself from Loyola before he got here.
Even for your frequent twisted logic, the above is pretty off the wall. Trying to decipher you are saying: So, MU, by hiring an athletic director, along with firing Bob Dukiet and playing in the Bradley Center, that alone saved us from being Loyola? So Bill Cords, firing Bob Dukiet, and playing in the Bradley Center had more to do with MU not becoming Loyola - and not Kevin O'Neill?? So if Kevin O'Neill were a crappy coach and couldn't recruit Mac, Damon Key, Logtermann, Curry etc...and the next hire after Dukiet led us to more 10-18 seasons...we wouldn't have run the risk of becoming a Loyola, Detroit, Bradley?
Still mind f*cked trying to figure out your theory that virtually every poster here are making way too much out of Kevin O'Neill saving us from becoming Loyola. Do you ever give any credit to any coach at MU other than Tom Crean?? Seriously. Though it was a joke, starting to really wonder if you are Joanie Crean or Tom?!
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 21, 2012, 03:14:34 PM
I think people make way too much of the "O'Neill saved us from becoming Loyola".
There are three important moves that Marquette made before O'Neill stepped one foot on campus.
First, they hired an outstanding AD in Bill Cords.
Second, they committed to playing in the brand new Bradley Center.
Third, they fired Bob Dukiet.
Kevin O'Neill may have done some good things, but Marquette had already separated itself from Loyola before he got here.
1. That's true.
2. Helped, but far from a guarantee of success. Lots of teams move to new arenas and remain bad and/or don't improve. Oregon hasn't exactly gotten better since moving to a state-of-the-art facility. USC hasn't exactly taken off since opening the Galen Center. South Carolina opened a new arena in 2002, and has been mostly bad ever since.
3. If firing a bad coach were key to success, DePaul would be a powerhouse.
Quote from: Ners on November 21, 2012, 03:27:31 PM
Even for your frequent twisted logic, the above is pretty off the wall. Trying to decipher you are saying: So, MU, by hiring an athletic director, along with firing Bob Dukiet and playing in the Bradley Center, that alone saved us from being Loyola? So Bill Cords, firing Bob Dukiet, and playing in the Bradley Center had more to do with MU not becoming Loyola - and not Kevin O'Neill?? So if Kevin O'Neill were a crappy coach and couldn't recruit Mac, Damon Key, Logtermann, Curry etc...and the next hire after Dukiet led us to more 10-18 seasons...we wouldn't have run the risk of becoming a Loyola, Detroit, Bradley?
Let me spell it out for you:
Does O'Neill come to MU without Cords here first? No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we had decided to play in the crappy Arena? No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we don't buy out Dukeit's contract and fire him? No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we dedided to de-emphasize athletics or drop to D2? No.
Does O'Neill go to Loyola in any conceivable scencario? Bradley? Detroit? No. No. and No.
In other words, MU had to commit to having a successful program FIRST, then hire a coach accordingly.
We landed O'Neill because we were committed to success first. Loyola would NEVER have been able to land a coach like O'Neill becuase they weren't committed.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 21, 2012, 04:16:34 PM
2. Helped, but far from a guarantee of success. Lots of teams move to new arenas and remain bad and/or don't improve. Oregon hasn't exactly gotten better since moving to a state-of-the-art facility. USC hasn't exactly taken off since opening the Galen Center. South Carolina opened a new arena in 2002, and has been mostly bad ever since.
Not a guarantee--but it would have been a lot harder to land a coach like O'Neill if MU hadn't made that decision. The Bradley Center was a selling point--it came with a lot of added cost and risk which the school had to make before they could even think to land a hot coaching prospect.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 21, 2012, 04:16:34 PM
3. If firing a bad coach were key to success, DePaul would be a powerhouse.
Not the key--but you have to be willing to make the move.
How much sooner would Wisconsin have been good had the not given Steve Yoder 10 years of futility? Some scholls are just afraid to pull the trigger and fire a coach. Nowdays, programs give their coaches only 2 or 3 years--back then it was more unusual. BTW, Cords did the same when he thought things were heading south under Mike Deane.
Quote from: The Lens on November 21, 2012, 02:09:54 PM
If you called KO an @sshole, he'd agree with you.
If you called TC an @sshole, he would try and have your season tickets taken away.
I completely agree, but my point is to look past Crean being a d-bag and realize he helped MU as well. It's possible without Crean we don't have the Al and aren't in the Big East.
Both of you are right.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on November 21, 2012, 01:17:42 PM
Does this mean in 15 years, Scoop will finally appreciate everything Tom Crean did for Marquette even though he was a giant a$$hole?
Can you imagine if Scoop was around when and directly after KO left?
Thank God cell phones with cameras weren't around back then either. :D
Quote from: ringout on November 21, 2012, 01:49:22 PM
Big difference. Crean had everything that KO did not...facilities, upper management support, fan adolation, BIG $$ 10 year f*cking contract, etc.
I still love KO, I still hold a grudge against TC (because he signed a 10 yr contract and left after 2).
Fan adolation....certainly not here. :D
He left for a better gig, IU. I don't harbor any illusions of grief when a guy leaves for Duke, IU, UCLA, KU, UK, UNC and maybe 4 or 5 others. You gots to go as they say. Once in a lifetime opportunity. Tennessee....3rd fiddle behind football and the women's hoops program...not so much.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 21, 2012, 07:46:22 PM
Fan adolation....certainly not here. :D
He left for a better gig, IU. I don't harbor any illusions of grief when a guy leaves for Duke, IU, UCLA, KU, UK, UNC and maybe 4 or 5 others. You gots to go as they say. Once in a lifetime opportunity. Tennessee....3rd fiddle behind football and the women's hoops program...not so much.
True Chicos but KO has always been a vagabond. We all knew he was leaving after the season. Most folks are upset with HOW TC left a la the Baltimore Colts on the Mayflower moving vans.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 21, 2012, 04:17:41 PM
Let me spell it out for you:
Does O'Neill come to MU without Cords here first? No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we had decided to play in the crappy Arena? No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we don't buy out Dukeit's contract and fire him? No.
Does O'Neill come to MU if we dedided to de-emphasize athletics or drop to D2? No.
Does O'Neill go to Loyola in any conceivable scencario? Bradley? Detroit? No. No. and No.
In other words, MU had to commit to having a successful program FIRST, then hire a coach accordingly.
We landed O'Neill because we were committed to success first. Loyola would NEVER have been able to land a coach like O'Neill becuase they weren't committed.
Ugh....who says A.D. prior to Cords wouldn't have reached out to a guy who was considered the best recruiter in college basketball?
Ugh...did you talk to Kevin and did Kevin tell you he never would have come to MU if it were still playing in the MECCA - which just 5 years earlier was a pro arena.
Ugh...2 coaches can't coach at a school at the same time...so no sh$t Sherlock...O'Neill or any other coach wouldn't be at MU if Dukiet wasn't fired.
But hey...it was all firing Dukiet, hiring Bill Cords, and us moving to the Bradley Center that got us the recruits and wins/Sweet 16 Kevin O'Neill got us...cause you know a building, and good athletic director are all it takes to win ball games in college hoops.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on November 21, 2012, 04:55:23 PM
I completely agree, but my point is to look past Crean being a d-bag and realize he helped MU as well. It's possible without Crean we don't have the Al and aren't in the Big East.
And most importantly, we don't haveBuzz!
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 21, 2012, 08:44:34 AM
It was all about the scheckles. KO said you could wipe your nose with his MU contract.
If I remember correctly, KO was making about $200K at MU and Tennessee paid him $400K.
Has anyone mentioned that after KO got to TN, he asked if he could come back to MU?
I'm pretty sure KO has gone on the record that in retrospect he regrets leaving. Despite what he said at the time.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on November 22, 2012, 08:59:09 PM
Has anyone mentioned that after KO got to TN, he asked if he could come back to MU?
I'm pretty sure KO has gone on the record that in retrospect he regrets leaving. Despite what he said at the time.
Rocky Top take on KO
http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2009/12/17/1203664/tennessee-kevin-oneill-the-reunion
I thought KO didn't placate or nicely rub the alums at AZ (like Lute did), hence the axe.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on November 23, 2012, 12:49:31 AM
I thought KO didn't placate or nicely rub the alums at AZ (like Lute did), hence the axe.
Not sure KO ever kissed anyone's ass. I am sure that her must be rubbing his wife in some way. She is 20 years his junior and a saucy vixen to boot. I love how those two have torn up a few bars in their time together. God, what a great woman.
Quote from: Ners on November 21, 2012, 08:08:37 PM
Ugh....who says A.D. prior to Cords wouldn't have reached out to a guy who was considered the best recruiter in college basketball?
Maybe because the guy prior to Cords first gave the job to a not-ready-for-prime-time Rick Majerus, then was turned down by Arkansas - Little Rock's Mike Newell who turned us down because he thought that UALR was a better job, then reached out and hired Bob Dukiet.
And, yes I know he was a beloved former MU head coach. But his track record for hiring head coaches was terrible.
Quote from: Ners on November 21, 2012, 08:08:37 PM
Ugh...did you talk to Kevin and did Kevin tell you he never would have come to MU if it were still playing in the MECCA - which just 5 years earlier was a pro arena.
Yes, he did in a manner of speaking. He made a comment to that regard at one of the Chicago coaches events that the commitment that MU showed to winning basketball--including hiring Cords and playing at the then-new Bradley center was a big attraction to him taking the job.
Quote from: Ners on November 21, 2012, 08:08:37 PM
Ugh...2 coaches can't coach at a school at the same time...so no sh$t Sherlock...O'Neill or any other coach wouldn't be at MU if Dukiet wasn't fired.
So why are you debating me on this? Even you admit that O'neill wouldn't be here if Dukiet wasn't fired--so the decision to fire Dukeit is at least as much a factor in our success as anything O'Neill did once he got here.
If MU was content with being on the path they were on, they wouldn't have fired Dukiet. So someone had to decide first that they weren't satisfied with the decline.
Quote from: Ners on November 21, 2012, 08:08:37 PM
But hey...it was all firing Dukiet, hiring Bill Cords, and us moving to the Bradley Center that got us the recruits and wins/Sweet 16 Kevin O'Neill got us...cause you know a building, and good athletic director are all it takes to win ball games in college hoops.
All I can tell you is that without Cords and without the Bradley Center, coaches like Mike Newell were turning us down, and the best we could do was Bob Dukiet.
Now, if you find some other plausible explanation as to why O'Neill would even consider (no less wind up at) MU without bigger changes at MU happening first, and I'd be happy to consider your point of view.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 23, 2012, 01:56:10 PM
Maybe because the guy prior to Cords first gave the job to a not-ready-for-prime-time Rick Majerus, then was turned down by Arkansas - Little Rock's Mike Newell who turned us down because he thought that UALR was a better job, then reached out and hired Bob Dukiet.
From his recent photograph I think Newell feared giving up access to chicken fried steak, fried chicken, hush puppies, fried catfish, fried green tomatos, fried okra, beignets, fried pickles, bbq, sweet tea, and Lone Star beer more than UALR was a better gig than MU