The Maryland fallout. Where does MU fit? ACC?
Lahaina, Hawaii - With Maryland reportedly on the verge of jumping the ACC for the Big Ten, it is possible that Rutgers could bolt the Big East to follow the Terps.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/179819291.html
This is getting serious. MU should buy UW-Whitewater and all its assets and make the jump to
1-AA FBS level with eyes of expanding to D1 in 2 yrs.
Just enjoy the vacation Mike. I don't believe he has any legitimate sources that say MU is a good fit for the B1G.
The ACC makes the big splash to lure Notre Dame, Syracuse and Pitt, only to watch Maryland go to the Big Ten? Don't get it. And Rutgers brings absolutely nothing to the Big 10 table.
Rutgers brings nothing but he largest Television market in the US
Quote from: muhoops1 on November 17, 2012, 06:35:48 PM
Rutgers brings nothing but he largest Television market in the US
That doesn't care about Rutgers, nor do they turn on their TV for them. All this grabbing markets doesn't do anything if no eyeballs are on the TV.
Quote from: forgetful on November 17, 2012, 06:48:46 PM
That doesn't care about Rutgers, nor do they turn on their TV for them. All this grabbing markets doesn't do anything if no eyeballs are on the TV.
But they might start to care if they can get good. Even if they don't, half the battle it about recruiting and there are some excellent basketball and football players from New Jersey. If you open up those markets to your membership, you can gain access to recruits you may not normally get.
Rutgers also fits their academic mold as one of the 62 members of the AAU which all Big Ten universities except Nebraska is a member. Maryland is also a member of the AAU.
It would be a nice academic boost for Rutgers for sure. For Maryland, some great universities in the ACC and some not so great in terms of academics.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 17, 2012, 07:00:03 PM
But they might start to care if they can get good. Even if they don't, half the battle it about recruiting and there are some excellent basketball and football players from New Jersey. If you open up those markets to your membership, you can gain access to recruits you may not normally get.
Rutgers also fits their academic mold as one of the 62 members of the AAU which all Big Ten universities except Nebraska is a member. Maryland is also a member of the AAU.
It would be a nice academic boost for Rutgers for sure. For Maryland, some great universities in the ACC and some not so great in terms of academics.
When it comes to academics the last thing that anyone is looking at is conference affiliation. Unless you are in the Ivy league. Also, I know the big wigs care about the AAU, but no one else does.
Quote from: muhoops1 on November 17, 2012, 06:35:48 PM
Rutgers brings nothing but he largest Television market in the US
The New York television market couldn't find Rutgers on a map.
Quote from: forgetful on November 17, 2012, 07:09:52 PM
When it comes to academics the last thing that anyone is looking at is conference affiliation. Unless you are in the Ivy league. Also, I know the big wigs care about the AAU, but no one else does.
That is absolutely incorrect when it comes to the Big Ten, especially with the presidents of these schools. It has been a critical part of their makeup since day one. Nebraska was part of the AAU when it joined the Big Ten but recently lost that designation. Faculty at a number of Big Ten schools were not happy. For many schools and conferences, I would agree with you, but not the Big Ten. Note what the chancellor of Nebraska said about their ability to make the Big Ten.
"All the Big Ten schools are AAU members. I doubt that our application would've been accepted had we not been a member of the organization.", Nancy Perlman
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-06-13/sports/ct-spt-0614-aau-big-ten-expansion--20100613_1_aau-nebraska-chancellor-harvey-perlman-big-ten-members
Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany, speaking at last year's spring meetings as expansion was heating up, had this to say about the Big Ten and its AAU ties:
"AAU membership is a part of who we are. It's an important part of who we are." http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/26078/nebraska-loses-aau-status
It's a big deal for the Big Ten. The only school they have ever publicly acknowledged willing to let in that wasn't AAU was Notre Dame and ND is consistently one of the top undergraduate programs in the nation, they just aren't the big research university that the AAU tends to give membership to.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 17, 2012, 07:27:23 PM
That is absolutely incorrect when it comes to the Big Ten, especially with the presidents of these schools. It has been a critical part of their makeup since day one. Nebraska was part of the AAU when it joined the Big Ten but recently lost that designation. Faculty at a number of Big Ten schools were not happy. For many schools and conferences, I would agree with you, but not the Big Ten. Note what the chancellor of Nebraska said about their ability to make the Big Ten.
"All the Big Ten schools are AAU members. I doubt that our application would've been accepted had we not been a member of the organization.", Nancy Perlman
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-06-13/sports/ct-spt-0614-aau-big-ten-expansion--20100613_1_aau-nebraska-chancellor-harvey-perlman-big-ten-members
Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany, speaking at last year's spring meetings as expansion was heating up, had this to say about the Big Ten and its AAU ties: "AAU membership is a part of who we are. It's an important part of who we are."
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/26078/nebraska-loses-aau-status
It's a big deal for the Big Ten. The only school they have ever publicly acknowledged willing to let in that wasn't AAU was Notre Dame and ND is consistently one of the top undergraduate programs in the nation, they just aren't the big research university that the AAU tends to give membership to.
Reading comprehension is fundamental. That is why I said the big wigs care about it, but no one else does.
Quote from: forgetful on November 17, 2012, 07:57:09 PM
Reading comprehension is fundamental. That is why I said the big wigs care about it, but no one else does.
Yes, and the big wigs make the decisions, therefore it is absolutely critical. When you said "When it comes to academics the last thing that anyone is looking at is conference affiliation" I took that to mean exactly that...that no one cares except for the big wigs you cite later. My reading comprehension is fine. ;) It's not just the presidents, but the academics that drive it. Alumni, etc. The Big Ten is a unique conference that is very good in athletics and very good at academics top to bottom. Some conferences are fantastic at athletics (Pac 12, SEC, ACC), but have a mish mash of schools that do it right in the academic realm and those that really don't.
The Big Ten was the only conference in the country, including the Ivy League, that had every institution as a member of the AAU until Nebraska was dropped last year. Ironically, Nebraska lost its membership as a result of two Big Ten schools not voting for them...UW-Madison and Michigan.
A pretty good article about the Big East, Big Ten expansion and the AAU.
http://dailymail.com/Sports/WVUSports/201105301093
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 17, 2012, 08:05:29 PM
Yes, and the big wigs make the decisions, therefore it is absolutely critical. When you said "When it comes to academics the last thing that anyone is looking at is conference affiliation" I took that to mean exactly that...that no one cares except for the big wigs you cite later. My reading comprehension is fine. ;) It's not just the presidents, but the academics that drive it. Alumni, etc. The Big Ten is a unique conference that is very good in athletics and very good at academics top to bottom. Some conferences are fantastic at athletics (Pac 12, SEC, ACC), but have a mish mash of schools that do it right in the academic realm and those that really don't.
The Big Ten was the only conference in the country, including the Ivy League, that had every institution as a member of the AAU until Nebraska was dropped last year. Ironically, Nebraska lost its membership as a result of two Big Ten schools not voting for them...UW-Madison and Michigan.
A pretty good article about the Big East, Big Ten expansion and the AAU.
http://dailymail.com/Sports/WVUSports/201105301093
This proves my point. There isn't a person in this country that thinks the Big Ten has better academics than the Ivies. AAU, means they bring in more a lot of research dollars. They should they have like 50,000 students each and because of that a lot of faculty. Quality over quantity. I would send my kids to a lot of other schools before the Big Ten, especially for an undergrad education.
The Big Ten is actually not that high of quality for undergrads, grads yes, but not at the undergraduate level. If you really believe any of these moves has anything to do with academics, then I have a bridge to sell you. This is about one thing and one thing only, money and athletic image.
The big donors these 'presidents' are targeting only care about the football team, they could care less if they shuttered up every department in the process. The academic argument is just to pacify the rest of their donors that actually believe a University should be a location of education.
Just curious. Is Marquette a AAU member or even close?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on November 18, 2012, 01:09:22 AM
Just curious. Is Marquette a AAU member or even close?
After reading their Wiki, its not even close. It reads more pretentious than a Notre Dame campus tour in the fall.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on November 18, 2012, 01:09:22 AM
Just curious. Is Marquette a AAU member or even close?
No and no.
No one in New York will ever care about Rutgers football, or any other college football for that matter. It is strictly a pro football town, as are Boston and Philly.
As for the AAU, if Minnesota's student athletes are representative of the group, enough said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities
I will point out that lack of AAU membership didn't prevent Notre Dame from getting a B10 invite. So I am not so sure that is an absolute...
Maybe Chicos can help me out on this one, but does it even matter if people in New York start watching BTN due to Rutgers? I've read that as the Big Ten gets schools from more states, it allows for wider distribution for the network at their subscriber fee (I think $.80 per subscriber). So whether the team was watched or not, they'd be able to add BTN to a lot of households, thus getting a lot of money.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 18, 2012, 08:58:19 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities
I will point out that lack of AAU membership didn't prevent Notre Dame from getting a B10 invite. So I am not so sure that is an absolute...
Academically, though, I believe ND is close to qualifying for membership. Had they joined the B1G, I'm pretty sure they would have been voted into the AAU shortly after.
FOX is eyeing an investment in the YES Network. Fox has investments in BTN. There may be something there. The Big Ten would add Wagner if it meant basic cable clearance for BTN.
Any conference that admits Nebraska can't say they are really concerned about their academic reputation with a straight face.
Quote from: jmayer1 on November 18, 2012, 10:27:57 AM
Any conference that admits Nebraska can't say they are really concerned about their academic reputation with a straight face.
Nebraska was an AAU member up until 2 years ago. The only reason they were voted out is because they don't have a medical college on campus. Academically, they offer exactly what the B1G is looking for (though losing AAU status didn't win them any friends in the league).
Whu would the B10 take MU as a member? They already have the Milwaukee TV market with Bucky. The ACC or B12 taking them as a non-football school to expand their reach would make more sense.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 18, 2012, 11:09:06 AM
Whu would the B10 take MU as a member? They already have the Milwaukee TV market with Bucky. The ACC or B12 taking them as a non-football school to expand their reach would make more sense.
The B1G would be all over Marquette because we are an AAU member, have a viable football program, a large and wide-reaching alumni base, and open them up to a new top-10 market they don't already have.
Hmm?
What's that?
Oh, we have none of those things?
Well, I guess they wouldn't be interested in us then. Well noted, Another :)
As several posters said, the whole thing is about television and ratings. Maryland, if they jump, gives the Big 10 access to the Baltimore Washington market. Rutgers is the only legitimate football playing school even remotely affiliated with the New York market that's left. It's probably like using Carroll College to gain access to the Milwaukee market, but at least it is an opening.
The bigger question is, "what about us?" We're lumped in with Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Providence and Depaul. My guess is that as long as Cincinnati and Louisville stay with the Big East, we should too. With the aforementioned teams, plus UConn, we still have a very good conference. Memphis will make it better. Beyond that group, who really cares? We could jump to the ACC and follow Notre Dame in all sports but football, but would they have us and the teams in that conference just don't fit with our natural rivalries.
It's sad but the reality is times are changing and what we do at MU with basketball is the tail on the dog of college sports
No, the big thing is not ratings. the big ten does not give a rats ass if anyone in new york turns the channel on, Just that the 30 million people now have big ten network on their cable packages, getting a nice hefty sum of cash from cable companies.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 18, 2012, 10:57:49 AM
Nebraska was an AAU member up until 2 years ago. The only reason they were voted out is because they don't have a medical college on campus. Academically, they offer exactly what the B1G is looking for (though losing AAU status didn't win them any friends in the league).
In other words, it's the consolation prize that the Ivy schools made up to give non-Ivy schools a name to use to feel good about themselves, even though they still aren't Ivy.
Kind of like being a dash school.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on November 18, 2012, 11:09:06 AM
Whu would the B10 take MU as a member? They already have the Milwaukee TV market with Bucky. The ACC or B12 taking them as a non-football school to expand their reach would make more sense.
It would be a defensive move to solidify the Milwaukee and Chicago markets and prevent the ACC, Big 12 or SEC networks from ever getting a foothold in those markets.
In other words, it would be done not to increase ratings but to prevent future erosion of those ratings.
Quote from: PTM on November 18, 2012, 02:20:50 AM
After reading their Wiki, its not even close. It reads more pretentious than a Notre Dame campus tour in the fall.
I don't know if pretentious is the right word, but academics should matter at a university. The list of schools for the 62 that have made it have made tremendous contributions to society in research (medical, science, economics, etc). MU doesn't fit the mold and that's fine. We've made plenty of great contributions in other ways, we aren't a research institution and never will be.
Two schools, Syracuse and Nebraska are out as of 2011. The remaining 62 are damn good. Incidentally, the Ivy League does not have all their schools in the AAU. Only the Big Ten had EVERY school in the AAU until Nebraska was pushed out.
As far as the comments about judging a school of conference based on their athletes, I'm not sure any school in the nation outside maybe 10 to 15 could survive that.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 18, 2012, 11:59:21 AM
I don't know if pretentious is the right word, but academics should matter at a university. The list of schools for the 62 that have made it have made tremendous contributions to society in research (medical, science, economics, etc). MU doesn't fit the mold and that's fine. We've made plenty of great contributions in other ways, we aren't a research institution and never will be.
Two schools, Syracuse and Nebraska are out as of 2011. The remaining 62 are damn good. Incidentally, the Ivy League does not have all their schools in the AAU. Only the Big Ten had EVERY school in the AAU until Nebraska was pushed out.
As far as the comments about judging a school of conference based on their athletes, I'm not sure any school in the nation outside maybe 10 to 15 could survive that.
Academics should matter, but I loathe that 'research' needs to be a major factor at judging a school.
Quote from: cheebs09 on November 18, 2012, 09:00:56 AM
Maybe Chicos can help me out on this one, but does it even matter if people in New York start watching BTN due to Rutgers? I've read that as the Big Ten gets schools from more states, it allows for wider distribution for the network at their subscriber fee (I think $.80 per subscriber). So whether the team was watched or not, they'd be able to add BTN to a lot of households, thus getting a lot of money.
Hard to explain without some visuals but I'll do my best. Territories are carved out by television distributors and content providers (Big Ten Network) to determine rates. These are based primarily on zip codes, DMAs, states. The "core" territories are those that will yield the highest rate for the content provider and the highest cost for the distributor. In the case of the Big Ten, think of the states in which the Big Ten has a member school. You are correct that by grabbing New Jersey, and thus the NY DMA, it expands their "core" territory and will mean more $$$ the next round of contract negotiations. Of course, there are many of us on the distributor side that are putting our foot down as well because the costs are so out of control....see Pac 12 distribution as on example. With the SEC coming online soon, it only gets worse.
So yes, going into that area does mean higher subscription fees because it will expand the core territory. Without that state, a DMA like New York is relegated to a different tier which will yield a payment far lower than that. The question that all distributors are dealing with right now is how much is too much. We are all sports fans that are passionate about their sports and willing to pay for them, but we forget that far more people don't give a crap about sports than those that do. Because all these networks demand wide distribution (i.e. EYEBALLS for advertisers), they will not allow these networks to be sold only to people that actually want them. So what happens is that if adding Rutgers to the Big Ten means a huge cost expenditure for Fios, ATT, Directv, Dish, Comcast, etc, etc that has to be passed on to all their customers, including grandma Jones on a fixed income who doesn't even know Rutgers exists let alone what the game of football is, that becomes problematic because the rate increases are getting so out of control.
It's a different world. Dish has already basically pulled out of major DMAs like New York with their sports options. The recent Lakers deal here in L.A. was a war between our company and them...DISH took a pass, some cable companies like Comcast still haven't reached a deal either. So it will be a calculated move by the Big Ten to know they may pick up the largest DMA and the associated spoils that go along with it, but they may also lose distributorship as well. Of course, the distributor will also lose subscribers over it, but if they feel those losses are less than the expenditures of signing on those channels, they will do it in a heartbeat.
I would add, as I had previously, opening up to New York is more than just television and $$$, it is also access to a huge population and recruiting base.
Quote from: boyonthedock on November 18, 2012, 11:28:01 AM
No, the big thing is not ratings. the big ten does not give a rats ass if anyone in new york turns the channel on, Just that the 30 million people now have big ten network on their cable packages, getting a nice hefty sum of cash from cable companies.
Ding ding. The BTN charges a cable box whether a viewer watches or not. But, what the BTN leaves on the table though, is ad revenue from ratings. If Hunt is throwing it out there about MU, don't think Uncle Lar isn't working on a back up plan and feeding the beast? What would be a better ratings draw during sweeps week in February: Northwestern vs. Iowa wrestling or MU basketball reruns? There has been talks that the BTN is looking to buy content under the new BE TV deal...as part of a Fox or DTV deal.
Maybe Larry is working a couple angles here. A BE/B1G tv deal or adjunct memberships? In LAX the B1G teams are few and join an adjunct conference themselves. Other Olympic sports have limited memberships due to football scholarships. MU can offer lower travel costs and strong Olympic sports. After all, MU would only need $3 million or so in tv revenue to come out ahead. And our hoops team will easily earn that back in future NCAA hoops appearance revenue and also ratings eyeballs. Who knows? Larry has been spotted in the West Loop recently, say in the area of the Montgomery Wards Building...just rumors I know but a BET deal is not out of the equation considering...
Some of the schools, (University of Iowa, Arizona, Oregon, Kansas) are almost always affiliated as an athletic-school as opposed to an academic university. At least that is always what I thought. just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
Quote from: Benny B on November 18, 2012, 11:40:58 AM
In other words, it's the consolation prize that the Ivy schools made up to give non-Ivy schools a name to use to feel good about themselves, even though they still aren't Ivy.
Kind of like being a dash school.
Not exactly, not all Ivy League schools are even part of the AAU today. Also, the founding members of the AAU were mostly Ivy and Big Ten schools. Of the 14 original members, 9 were Ivy or Big Ten.
Michigan
Wisconsin
Penn
Princeton
Chicago (Big Ten at the time)
Harvard
Cornell
Columbia
YaleCal
Johns Hopkins
Stanford
Clark (on longer a member)
Catholic U. (no longer a member)
The Big Ten has the largest membership 10 of 11.
Ivy League 7 of 8
Pac 12 has 8 of 12
ACC has 6 of 14
Big 12 has 4 of 9
SEC 3 of 13
Big East has 1 (Rutgers)
Quote from: PTM on November 18, 2012, 12:02:22 PM
Academics should matter, but I loathe that 'research' needs to be a major factor at judging a school.
Fair point. That's where the dollars go and I suspect that is why it is given so much credence.
The Big 10 cares about academics, right after they care about making millions of dollars in revenue.
If there is a school that they can add that will make them millions of dollars, they will look into it.
Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow... but the BTN is a hungry beast they they need to keep feeding it.
Conferences are going to keep evolving until they have squeezed out every bit of revenue.
Quote from: setyoursightsnorth on November 18, 2012, 12:12:38 PM
Some of the schools, (University of Iowa, Arizona, Oregon, Kansas) are almost always affiliated as an athletic-school as opposed to an academic university. At least that is always what I thought. just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
All depends on where you are coming from. KU is one of my alma maters, other than basketball we were hardly known as an athletic school over the decades. In fact, we've been pretty piss poor with minor periods of decent success here and there. Oregon was a laughing stock out here for decades in football and basketball (Oregon State was actually the basketball school up there for many years). The thing is, they are universities first and even though the UA basketball team gives the school tremendous exposure, the school is doing things at a research and academic level that also garners it notoriety outside of folks like us that are hooked into sports so much.
We are viewing it through the lens of a sports fan.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 18, 2012, 12:24:10 PM
The Big 10 cares about academics, right after they care about making millions of dollars in revenue.
They care about both and their history supports that. If they didn't, they would have expanded for expansion sake and brought in schools that don't cut it academically...which they haven't. I don't see any of that changing. The Big Ten is so big, so powerful, they don't need to cut corners on who they admit next. It almost certainly will continue to be AAU member schools.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 18, 2012, 12:32:02 PM
They care about both and their history supports that. If they didn't, they would have expanded for expansion sake and brought in schools that don't cut it academically...which they haven't. I don't see any of that changing. The Big Ten is so big, so powerful, they don't need to cut corners on who they admit next. It almost certainly will continue to be AAU member schools.
Historically, you are correct, but I just think the landscape has changed greatly.
Th BigTen is doing things now it didn't dream up 10 years ago. 10 years from now it will be doing things we probably can't imagine.
$ is the big driver right now. $. $. $.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 18, 2012, 12:32:02 PM
They care about both and their history supports that. If they didn't, they would have expanded for expansion sake and brought in schools that don't cut it academically...which they haven't. I don't see any of that changing. The Big Ten is so big, so powerful, they don't need to cut corners on who they admit next. It almost certainly will continue to be AAU member schools.
I guess the FB rosters of the Big 10 member schools are heavily populated with potential Rhodes scholars...! AAU membership...phooey. It's just all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Quote from: PTM on November 18, 2012, 12:02:22 PM
Academics should matter, but I loathe that 'research' needs to be a major factor at judging a school.
University research is a prime factor in American creativity and innovation. It is an essential ingredient in economic, social, and intellectual progress.
Quote from: unforgiven on November 18, 2012, 12:47:40 PM
University research is a prime factor in American creativity and innovation. It is an essential ingredient in economic, social, and intellectual progress.
But....has zip to do with athletics, particularly FB which is heavily populated with academic underachievers.
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 18, 2012, 12:52:48 PM
But....has zip to do with athletics, particularly FB which is heavily populated with academic underachievers.
I agree. Although, Gatorade was made by lab guys for the Florida football team
Quote from: unforgiven on November 18, 2012, 12:56:45 PM
I agree. Although, Gatorade was made by lab guys for the Florida football team
Another major advance for mankind... :P
Made a fortune off essentially sugared water.
Quote from: PTM on November 18, 2012, 12:02:22 PM
Academics should matter, but I loathe that 'research' needs to be a major factor at judging a school.
Schools serve different purposes. Major research universities are extremely important to American creativity, but that doesn't mean they are good for everyone from an undergraduate education perspective.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 18, 2012, 01:38:43 PM
Schools serve different purposes. Major research universities are extremely important to American creativity, but that doesn't mean they are good for everyone from an undergraduate education perspective.
Precisely what I said in saying that AAU membership has zip to do with athletics other than the appearance of eliteness by association......
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 18, 2012, 01:44:15 PM
Precisely what I said in saying that AAU membership has zip to do with athletics other than the appearance of eliteness by association......
I don't disagree with you one bit.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 18, 2012, 01:38:43 PM
Schools serve different purposes. Major research universities are extremely important to American creativity, but that doesn't mean they are good for everyone from an undergraduate education perspective.
I completely agree. I'm not saying they aren't important. To echo your point, a research university has very little do to with an undergrad education. I'm irritated when people use research money as one of the end-all factors when ranking universities.
The money part is one of the most irritating. There are professors in the MU Civil Engineering department that have helped the DOT make strides in materials and design of the modern freeway construction with minimal amount of monetary support.
I never, ever hear about a whole lot out of UW, but they're engineering research budgets are ridiculous.
Quote from: PTM on November 18, 2012, 02:05:46 PM
I completely agree. I'm not saying they aren't important. To echo your point, a research university has very little do to with an undergrad education. I'm irritated when people use research money as one of the end-all factors when ranking universities.
The money part is one of the most irritating. There are professors in the MU Civil Engineering department that have helped the DOT make strides in materials and design of the modern freeway construction with minimal amount of monetary support.
I never, ever hear about a whole lot out of UW, but they're engineering research budgets are ridiculous.
Well, I happen to believe that the whole idea of "ranking" universities is silly. Some students are going to do better, and have a more meaningful experience, at Wisconsin Lutheran than they would at UW-Madison. But we are going to devalue that experience between Wisconsin Lutheran is ranked lower than UW-Madison? That's dumb. Especially if they have been out of school a few years.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 18, 2012, 02:10:32 PM
Well, I happen to believe that the whole idea of "ranking" universities is silly. Some students are going to do better, and have a more meaningful experience, at Wisconsin Lutheran than they would at UW-Madison. But we are going to devalue that experience between Wisconsin Lutheran is ranked lower than UW-Madison? That's dumb. Especially if they have been out of school a few years.
Well put. Getting tired of agreeing with you all the time lately.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 18, 2012, 02:10:32 PM
Well, I happen to believe that the whole idea of "ranking" universities is silly. Some students are going to do better, and have a more meaningful experience, at Wisconsin Lutheran than they would at UW-Madison. But we are going to devalue that experience between Wisconsin Lutheran is ranked lower than UW-Madison? That's dumb. Especially if they have been out of school a few years.
Agreed, and that opinion can apply to any school, any age/level, etc. There are so many variables that a ranking is impossible. Just trying to make sense of the data is difficult enough...because first generation college students have a higher success rate at small private liberal art schools than at state schools does it mean the schools are better or easier...
Ranking of schools is an enormous business that can obviously translate into mega dollars. Some of the best marketing a school can possibly dream of. It's here to stay.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 18, 2012, 02:10:32 PM
Well, I happen to believe that the whole idea of "ranking" universities is silly. Some students are going to do better, and have a more meaningful experience, at Wisconsin Lutheran than they would at UW-Madison. But we are going to devalue that experience between Wisconsin Lutheran is ranked lower than UW-Madison? That's dumb. Especially if they have been out of school a few years.
Honestly, would you feel the same way if you worked at a top university or your kid was a student at a top 20 school? Personally, I don't think it's the be all and end all. But, it is an obviously source of pride and accomplishment for those who do.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 18, 2012, 02:25:14 PM
Honestly, would you feel the same way if you worked at a top university or your kid was a student at a top 20 school? Personally, I don't think it's the be all and end all. But, it is an obviously source of pride and accomplishment for those who do.
Let me change my response here. It really does depend on the child. If I have a child that is gifted and talented, but wasted his gifts and talents and went to the local community college, I wouldn't be very happy. But for other kids I know, a two year degree is a big accomplishment. My pride in my kids isn't really about where they go to school, but how hard they push themselves given their natural talents.
60 Minutes is doing an investigative segment on college football and how it effects the institutions tonight.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 18, 2012, 02:54:05 PM
Let me change my response here. It really does depend on the child. If I have a child that is gifted and talented, but wasted his gifts and talents and went to the local community college, I wouldn't be very happy. But for other kids I know, a two year degree is a big accomplishment. My pride in my kids isn't really about where they go to school, but how hard they push themselves given their natural talents.
I think that's a very valid response. As I remarked, college rankings can be a huge money maker for the schools.
I just want to comment on the athletics vs research/academics quickly. The funny thing is even at the big Universities athletics is a net loss.
Research/Academics on the other hand brings in ridiculous profits. Big Universities can bring in $100 million dollars a year in research grants. Whereas much of this goes to fund the research about $.50 of every $1.50 total goes to whatever the University wants to spend it on. So for $50 million spent on research the University gets a free $25 million to spend on infrastructure/whatever.
In addition, much of this research is patentable, and those rights and the dollars along with it go to the University. Ask Florida St. what has brought in more money, their athletic program, or Taxol profits.
If the focus was on academics, they would invest more heavily in academics, instead of pissing money away to athletics.
60 Minutes is doing a piece on what college football means to the big universities tonight...should be interesting to see what they conclude..
Quote from: forgetful on November 18, 2012, 03:48:36 PM
In addition, much of this research is patentable, and those rights and the dollars along with it go to the University. Ask Florida St. what has brought in more money, their athletic program, or Taxol profits.
In direct costs no doubt. But what would fundamentally change the University more? Forgoing Taxol profits or forgoing athletics?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 18, 2012, 12:09:21 PM
Hard to explain without some visuals but I'll do my best. Territories are carved out by television distributors and content providers (Big Ten Network) to determine rates. These are based primarily on zip codes, DMAs, states. The "core" territories are those that will yield the highest rate for the content provider and the highest cost for the distributor. In the case of the Big Ten, think of the states in which the Big Ten has a member school. You are correct that by grabbing New Jersey, and thus the NY DMA, it expands their "core" territory and will mean more $$$ the next round of contract negotiations. Of course, there are many of us on the distributor side that are putting our foot down as well because the costs are so out of control....see Pac 12 distribution as on example. With the SEC coming online soon, it only gets worse.
So yes, going into that area does mean higher subscription fees because it will expand the core territory. Without that state, a DMA like New York is relegated to a different tier which will yield a payment far lower than that. The question that all distributors are dealing with right now is how much is too much. We are all sports fans that are passionate about their sports and willing to pay for them, but we forget that far more people don't give a crap about sports than those that do. Because all these networks demand wide distribution (i.e. EYEBALLS for advertisers), they will not allow these networks to be sold only to people that actually want them. So what happens is that if adding Rutgers to the Big Ten means a huge cost expenditure for Fios, ATT, Directv, Dish, Comcast, etc, etc that has to be passed on to all their customers, including grandma Jones on a fixed income who doesn't even know Rutgers exists let alone what the game of football is, that becomes problematic because the rate increases are getting so out of control.
It's a different world. Dish has already basically pulled out of major DMAs like New York with their sports options. The recent Lakers deal here in L.A. was a war between our company and them...DISH took a pass, some cable companies like Comcast still haven't reached a deal either. So it will be a calculated move by the Big Ten to know they may pick up the largest DMA and the associated spoils that go along with it, but they may also lose distributorship as well. Of course, the distributor will also lose subscribers over it, but if they feel those losses are less than the expenditures of signing on those channels, they will do it in a heartbeat.
I would add, as I had previously, opening up to New York is more than just television and $$$, it is also access to a huge population and recruiting base.
Thanks. I appreciate the response.
So you can get AAU accreditation and still allow functional illiterates to "graduate" as long as they help you win the Rose Bowl?
Quote from: Ners on November 18, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
60 Minutes is doing a piece on what college football means to the big universities tonight...should be interesting to see what they conclude..
That Aaron Rodgers is a very emotional people hater
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 18, 2012, 03:57:01 PM
In direct costs no doubt. But what would fundamentally change the University more? Forgoing Taxol profits or forgoing athletics?
Direct costs refer only to the grants. The Taxol profits are from IP rights. The amount they made is several hundred million dollars.
I'll tell you right now, if Fla. St. was told they had to give up research (including Taxol money) or Football, they would give up Football in a heart beat.
Quote from: Ners on November 18, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
60 Minutes is doing a piece on what college football means to the big universities tonight...should be interesting to see what they conclude..
Not much that we didn't already know.
Quote from: Mutaman on November 17, 2012, 07:17:51 PM
The New York television market couldn't find Rutgers on a map.
I'd have to agree with you here. Notre Dame has a decent draw in New York, but as big as the market is I believe 6% of its viewers watched the BCS title game. Certainly it is still a plus for Rutgers to be in NY market, but it's not as much a slam dunk as it might appear at first.
Quote from: The Lens on November 18, 2012, 10:11:10 AM
FOX is eyeing an investment in the YES Network. Fox has investments in BTN. There may be something there. The Big Ten would add Wagner if it meant basic cable clearance for BTN.
Yes, well actually it is NewsCorp, the parent company of Fox. Likely buying 49% of YES. The Yankees stand to make about $250 to $300 million off the deal.
Quote from: muhoops1 on November 17, 2012, 05:49:24 PM
This is getting serious. MU should buy UW-Whitewater and all its assets and make the jump to
1-AA FBS level with eyes of expanding to D1 in 2 yrs.
Why people on this board continue to think having a crappy second level football helps is beyond me. If we did this, we would be far worse off.
Conference realignment is about football, and only football. If we had a 1-aa team, we would have to realign to an appropriate football conference, think the Patriot league. Then our basketball team would be forced into that conference and that would be the end of MU basketball as we know it.
At some point the major conferences will open up to non-football schools. Those schools will not share in football revenues, but will share basketball revenues. When that happens, we will be in a good place.
Be patient