MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on October 16, 2012, 07:59:42 AM
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Some may have noticed while taking a break from debating everything else, that our first game, against Ohio State, on a carrier, is coming up in 3 weeks. So, what do we know about Ohio St? Sullinger is gone, Craft is back. Craft is a very good on-ball defender and all around disruptive defensive force. Will Junior be able to handle the pressure? Last year, Thad did not go deep on his bench. This year, all of the guys he had no confidence in last year are going to have to play. Will our perceived, theoretical depth make a difference this early in the year?
Assuming health, our top 7 are set. Does Buzz go to freshmen (or Jake) in the first game of the year on that large a stage? In other words, who are the 8th and 9th guys going to be to start the year? Will Buzz treat this as huge deal or a glorified scrimmage?
I think Juan, DWilson, and Jake fight for the 8th/9th spots early. I am not counting on seeing the frosh on the carrier. I think that publicly, Buzz is going to downplay the importance of the game while privately telling the team this is a chance to send a clear message across the land. I think our rotation is going to be more sorted than tOSU's. I think Buzz is going to let Mayo/Blue/Lockett initiate the offense for parts of the game to try to neutralize Craft on Junior. I think that by the start of the BEast, we will see CO starting with DG playing more minutes, but for this game, while CO continues to recover, DG starts and plays 25+ minutes. I think we win. And if things fall just right, I think we roll.
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an important question you forgot: anyone on the team afraid of boats/water or get seasick easily?
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Funny. Visiting the tOSU scout page, they are thrilled with their returning length and defensive abilities, but worried about where the scoring is going to come from. They are anticipating playing pressure defense and getting out and running.
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I cannot see how Jake is going to get playing time ahead of Steve Taylor. From all reports Taylor has performed very well defensively, and with CO coming back from injury and OSU's length, I think he gets at least 10 minutes.
I think there is a chance that this game looks very ugly...not "blowout ugly"...but just kind of a bad offense kind of ugly. Two teams replacing a bunch of scoring playing their first game of the year.
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Sultan, I get where you are coming from about it being an 'ugly' game. Two teams playing aggressive defense and both trying to replace a lot of points that walked out the door. One difference I see is that MU has 6 players with experience starting at the D1 level. tOSU has 3. If Taylor is ready to play, so much the better. I think you are getting at, and I agree, that Otule is not going to be ready to go 20 MPG for a while.
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Craft and Lenzelle Smith form a great backcourt, and Deshaun Thomas will be one of the elite players in the entire country. They don't have our experience, but they have plenty of raw talent. I am glad to be catching them this early, because this is the type of team that shapes up to be really good later in the season but might have a few hiccups early on with new starters and an inexperienced bench.
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If it really is ugly, who gets the ball if it goes overboard? Do the walkons wear wetsuits to the game??
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And this is one of those games I get real nervous about MU going out and forcing pace. I think you make a young team like OSU go out and work for their baskets. I think pressure only will give a team like that a chance at a bunch of easy baskets.
OTOH, maybe that's how Buzz thinks he can create offense....
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I agree with Sultan that Taylor gets in the mix a bit. Let's remember that Chris will still be limited (at least as to his conditioning and minutes) so I'll bet Steve gets 10 minutes and looks good.
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They lost 32 ppg and 14 rpg with the departures of Sullinger and Buford, which is somewhat comparable to the loss of our DJO and Crowder. Our entire starting 5 and a bench player or 2 will be bringing D1 starting experience, while they will have what 3? It is important for us to contain Craft and Thomas and get after their younger guys right off the bat. Force them into stupid mistakes and keep the pressure on.
I have confidence Junior will perform well versus Craft. He's a senior now and has to run this team. I'm not sure who will guard Thomas but I'm thinking Lockett might be a good matchup? They seem pretty similar in size. Very excited for this game. That's my outlook.
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The thing that makes me nervous is that we usually have 2 or 3 cupcakes to work out the kinks before we play a big time opponent.
Ohio State is in the same boat though. (See what I did there?)
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serious question... would it help at all to have the team practicing on an outdoor court a few days before the game? if i'm remembering last year correctly, UNC/MSU had trouble adjusting to the wind and simply shooting on an outdoor hoop.
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tOSU = Big Ten champs this year. Tough game, but with the wind tough to call what will happen. Get in the paint.
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The basketball magazine I purchased had two Ohio St players on preseason Big 10 first team and one on second team. There were no MU players on Big East preseason teams. Has anyone else wondered what the weather is going to be like? The game is outside.
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I think a combo of Wilson, Devante, and Otule will keep DeShaun Thomas in check. One would think Buzz would like to try and isolate DeDe offensively on the block against Thomas, in the hopes of the OSU horse getting whistled for a couple early fouls.
What concerns me the most is Craft (love that dude) defensively. Yes, Junior is a senior, experience-laden point guard - but we all know that JC is prone to headscratching turnovers. With one of our biggest weaknesses being a defined backup point guard, I'm nervous as to how we'll respond to the on the ball defense.
Can Blue/Lockett/Mayo show us that ball control will not be a liability for MU? Defensively I like D-Wilson, but can we truly rely on him to handle the pressure of bringing the ball up and running this team (should JC get in foul trouble)?
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serious question... would it help at all to have the team practicing on an outdoor court a few days before the game? if i'm remembering last year correctly, UNC/MSU had trouble adjusting to the wind and simply shooting on an outdoor hoop.
Boeheim agrees with you: “I think we’re going to … if it’s not snowing,” Boeheim said in London. “I don’t know if that’s overthinking it or not. But if you’re going to play somewhere and they use different basketballs, we’ll use those basketballs in practice. So if we’re going to play outdoors, we should at least shoot outdoors and run some drills outdoors.
“I don’t know if it will make a big difference, but it might.”
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jul/31/boeheim-well-practice-outside-carrier-game-vs-sdsu/ (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jul/31/boeheim-well-practice-outside-carrier-game-vs-sdsu/)
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They lost 32 ppg and 14 rpg with the departures of Sullinger and Buford, which is somewhat comparable to the loss of our DJO and Crowder. Our entire starting 5 and a bench player or 2 will be bringing D1 starting experience, while they will have what 3? It is important for us to contain Craft and Thomas and get after their younger guys right off the bat. Force them into stupid mistakes and keep the pressure on.
I have confidence Junior will perform well versus Craft. He's a senior now and has to run this team. I'm not sure who will guard Thomas but I'm thinking Lockett might be a good matchup? They seem pretty similar in size. Very excited for this game. That's my outlook.
Thomas is much bigger than Lockett. MU may have to rotate players on Thoma big and small, with Jamil, Juan, Lockett and Taylor possibly spending time on him and Buzz may even put Vander or Mayo on him at times. Make him work.
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What's the plan for this game if it rains?... Seriously.
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The thing that makes me nervous is that we usually have 2 or 3 cupcakes to work out the kinks before we play a big time opponent.
Ohio State is in the same boat though. (See what I did there?)
Nicely done.
In the same boat and on the same boat.
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What typically happens when MU plays a big state school from a major conference in a big game is that they crap themselves.
Washington, Florida, LSU, NC-State, UNC, Kansas, Alabama etc.....
I expect nothing less than a a 20 point blowout loss.
If the school is decent at football or plays in a big conference we lose.
I would rather Marquette play an undefeated Creighton team than play a 15 loss LSU team.
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What typically happens when MU plays a big state school from a major conference in a big game is that they crap themselves.
Washington, Florida, LSU, NC-State, UNC, Kansas, Alabama etc.....
I expect nothing less than a a 20 point blowout loss.
If the school is decent at football or plays in a big conference we lose.
I would rather Marquette play an undefeated Creighton team than play a 15 loss LSU team.
Just last year they beat Wisconsin, Washington, and Ole Miss. But hey, don't let facts get in the way.
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What's the plan for this game if it rains?... Seriously.
For last year's game btw MSU and UNC, they said they would be able to move the court below deck into the hangar if the weather didn't cooperate. Not sure if that is the same for this game or if there is a backup location... But i would assume it is the same.
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What typically happens when MU plays a big state school from a major conference in a big game is that they crap themselves.
Washington, Florida, LSU, NC-State, UNC, Kansas, Alabama etc.....
I expect nothing less than a a 20 point blowout loss.
If the school is decent at football or plays in a big conference we lose.
I would rather Marquette play an undefeated Creighton team than play a 15 loss LSU team.
You're not very bright.
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I vaguely recall they said the day before the game that after checking that closer, moving below decks would not have been an option afterall
For last year's game btw MSU and UNC, they said they would be able to move the court below deck into the hanger if the weather didn't cooperate. Not sure if that is the same for this game or if there is a backup location... But i would assume it is the same.
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Wow... To be honest, I'd rather it rain and see how that would work.
"For last year's game btw MSU and UNC, they said they would be able to move the court below deck into the hanger if the weather didn't cooperate. Not sure if that is the same for this game or if there is a backup location... But i would assume it is the same."
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Just last year they beat Wisconsin, Washington, and Ole Miss. But hey, don't let facts get in the way.
And I'll add, West Virginia, UCONN, Louisville and Cincinnati.
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And I'll add, West Virginia, UCONN, Louisville and Cincinnati.
Rutgers is the state school of New Jersey also
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I vaguely recall they said the day before the game that after checking that closer, moving below decks would not have been an option afterall
You may be right on that, I don't remembering hearing that...
Wikipedia mentions that there was a duplicate court setup in the hangar bay... then again, its Wikipedia, so anybody could have written it:
"A duplicate setup was built in the hangar bay in case of inclement weather, but was not needed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Classic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Classic)
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From all I think there is a chance that this game looks very ugly...not "blowout ugly"...but just kind of a bad offense kind of ugly. Two teams replacing a bunch of scoring playing their first game of the year.
Completely agree. I understand from a marketing/program perspective the pluses of this game, but from a basketball point of view, I think this game stinks. Beyond both teams replacing scorers, the fact this is the first game of year for both teams, in a weird environment, with the possibility of significant outside influences (the weather), I wonder what either team will really be able to take away from this match-up.
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I vaguely recall they said the day before the game that after checking that closer, moving below decks would not have been an option afterall
Looks like you are right, they didn't want to do it because of small quarters, less spectators, etc.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/38495/rain-wont-force-carrier-classic-below-deck (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/38495/rain-wont-force-carrier-classic-below-deck)
Maybe they will just do rain delays for bad weather like baseball... What's crazy to me is last year's Carrier Classic was in San Diego, where it seems to be 80 and sunny year round... Doing a quick search, San Diego weather averages for November are HI of 70/Low of 54 with 1.1 in. of rain... Charleston is HI of 69/ LOW of 47 with 2.5 in. of rain... I'm no meteorologist, so I don't know how significant that is, but over twice as much rain would seem to indicate a little more of a risk in Charleston than San Diego...
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Wow... To be honest, I'd rather it rain and see how that would work.
"For last year's game btw MSU and UNC, they said they would be able to move the court below deck into the hanger if the weather didn't cooperate. Not sure if that is the same for this game or if there is a backup location... But i would assume it is the same."
I believe the York Town is a World War II carrier and therefore is smaller than the modern carrier that the game in San Diego was on.
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I vaguely recall they said the day before the game that after checking that closer, moving below decks would not have been an option afterall
Forget about rain... I want it to be cold. As in 35-40 degree cold. Buzz may turn into a popsicle, but MU's "cold-weather" lineup of Cadougan (Ontario), Blue (Wisconsin), Lockett (Minnesota), Wilson (Wisconsin) would have their way with any lineup that OSU can assemble of softies from Georgia, Mississippi, Florida, Southern Ohio, etc.
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isn't still late hurricane season in early November as well?
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isn't still late hurricane season in early November as well?
Now that would affect shooting. wouldn't it? I can picture Juan doing the 'Gilligan' hanging onto a flagpole.
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I have been on the Yorktown, that thing doesnt move at all, it is literally stuck in Cooper River Mud
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All weather jokes aside, the game is outside and the carrier does still move. Keeping our outside shooting to a minimum is key. If we jack up 20+ threes that doesn't bode well.
Davante, Otule, JWill, and guards driving to the hoop should be the order of the day.
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Wow... To be honest, I'd rather it rain and see how that would work.
"For last year's game btw MSU and UNC, they said they would be able to move the court below deck into the hanger if the weather didn't cooperate. Not sure if that is the same for this game or if there is a backup location... But i would assume it is the same."
Thank you for being honest--it's the best policy after all.
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Forget about rain... I want it to be cold. As in 35-40 degree cold. Buzz may turn into a popsicle, but MU's "cold-weather" lineup of Cadougan (Ontario), Blue (Wisconsin), Lockett (Minnesota), Wilson (Wisconsin) would have their way with any lineup that OSU can assemble of softies from Georgia, Mississippi, Florida, Southern Ohio, etc.
I thought about that. As a kid I use to play outside all the time. However, i wonder how much Blue or Wilson have played outside. They have always had access to gyms and I suspect they are not use to playing outside.
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Would be great to have the great Pat Smith around to toss a ball off the deck.
Maybe someone can do it in his memory. Maybe a little motivation for Vander?
# In February of 1968, McGuire took Pat Smith down to the Milwaukee lakefront and had him toss a beach ball into Lake Michigan to refute De Paul coach Ray Meyer’s grumpy assertion that the undersized center “couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean from the beach.”
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Would be great to have the great Pat Smith around to toss a ball off the deck.
Maybe someone can do it in his memory. Maybe a little motivation for Vander?
# In February of 1968, McGuire took Pat Smith down to the Milwaukee lakefront and had him toss a beach ball into Lake Michigan to refute De Paul coach Ray Meyer’s grumpy assertion that the undersized center “couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean from the beach.”
Technically, he threw it into the lake, which I suppose is more difficult.
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Completely agree. I understand from a marketing/program perspective the pluses of this game, but from a basketball point of view, I think this game stinks. Beyond both teams replacing scorers, the fact this is the first game of year for both teams, in a weird environment, with the possibility of significant outside influences (the weather), I wonder what either team will really be able to take away from this match-up.
The winner will likely be able to take away a "quality win"...but I understand what you are saying.
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My advanced weather app says it will be partly sunny with a high of 70 on November 9. A low of 48, won't it be a little cool for an evening game?
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My advanced weather app says it will be partly sunny with a high of 70 on November 9. A low of 48, won't it be a little cool for an evening game?
Not in my living room. :D
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OSU ranked #4 in USA Today poll
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OSU ranked #4 in USA Today poll
Last year's preseason #4 was UConn. Teams that make a deep NCAA Tournament run tend to be highly ranked to start the next season even if they lose an All-American. IOW, preseason rankings don't mean much.
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Regardless, we'll be playing the #4 team in the country for our first game. That's awesome whether or not it's on a boat.
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Just saw nbcsports channel pimpin the MU v OSU game as the beginning of the college ball season during an episode of dangerous game.
They are hunting African elephants on Dangerous Game. Kinda ironic.....
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an important question you forgot: anyone on the team afraid of boats/water or get seasick easily?
The beauty is that you can be on a carrier and have no clue that you are on a "boat". ;)
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isn't still late hurricane season in early November as well?
I'm looking forward to Hurricane Vander or maybe Hurricane Trent.
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isn't still late hurricane season in early November as well?
Hurricane season runs through November 30, though the expectation is that there aren't any more storms coming off Africa with enough momentum to cross to our hemisphere. Sandy should be the last hurricane this year.
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I'm thinking our game plan will be to show full court pressure D and attack in transition. That is Buzz's style anyway and hopefully we can get some easy baskets and draw fouls by attacking the rim. I don't want to rely on outside shooting because it's our first game, big time spotlight and unique conditions. Hard to imagine us lighting it up from 3. OSU also likely has a rebounding advantage although if Otule is effective maybe not by much. I also think Craft could cause serious problems for Cadougan and others if we get into a slower half court game.
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I believe the York Town is a World War II carrier and therefore is smaller than the modern carrier that the game in San Diego was on.
The first WW2 Yorktown was sunk at the Battle of Midway, though its planes played a significant role in sinking FOUR enemy carriers. Even though it had sustained a great deal of damage from enemy planes and had been abandoned, the Yorktown refused to sink and had to be torpedoed by an American destroyer. Let's hope our team shows similar resilience.
This Yorktown was commissioned mid-WW2.
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The first WW2 Yorktown was sunk at the Battle of Midway, though its planes played a significant role in sinking FOUR enemy carriers. Even though it had sustained a great deal of damage from enemy planes and had been abandoned, the Yorktown refused to sink and had to be torpedoed by an American destroyer. Let's hope our team shows similar resilience.
This Yorktown was commissioned mid-WW2.
Actually the original Yorktown was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine. Just after the major fighting at Midway as it was being towed back to Hawaii when a lone Japanese sub made a surprise visit and caught the defenseless aircraft carrier.
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http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/41335/college-basketball-team-previews-ohio-state
grantland osu preview
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Watched the Ohio St. exhibition they had last night and here are a few of the takeaways I got from that:
- Kraft doesn't impress me as a shooter. He sort of "pushes" the ball like a lot of us critique Vander about. Leads to a lot of rushed looking shots. Defense, however, he is smothering.
- Jamil is going to have his hands full with Desean Thomas. Kid has a nice inside and out game.
- Gardner will have a field day inside, particularly if Ravenel is in.
- Marquette needs to run all day. Walsh ran in the transition and got a ton of points that way. Ohio St. looked slow on the run.
- Ohio State will look to run the full court press a lot.
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Ohio St is vastly overrated.
They're getting a huge benefit of the doubt that the sophomores who couldn't get off the bench last year as freshman will be able to replace Buford and Sullinger.
I think Marquette will win this game. Don't get me wrong Thomas and Craft are great players, but unless someone else steps up marquette is a better team.
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Ohio St is vastly overrated.
They're getting a huge benefit of the doubt that the sophomores who couldn't get off the bench last year as freshman will be able to replace Buford and Sullinger.
I think Marquette will win this game. Don't get me wrong Thomas and Craft are great players, but unless someone else steps up marquette is a better team.
+1 completely agree.
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On my DirecTV schedule game time is 7pm Eastern/6pm Central on the NBC Sports Channel. Quite a few other games on ESPN and ESPNU as well that evening.
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I heard that if the weather was a problem, that they would move the game indoors at The Citadel.
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I remember that last year Izzo was upset about the floor. It may have been logos on the floor similar to the logo Otule slipped on when he wreck his knee. Whether we win or not, I will be glad if no one gets injured.
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I remember that last year Izzo was upset about the floor. It may have been logos on the floor similar to the logo Otule slipped on when he wreck his knee. Whether we win or not, I will be glad if no one gets injured.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Otule slipped on a logo when he wrecked his knee.
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weather forecast for the 9th is mostly sunny, high of 70, low of 54. Game time temp likely in the low 60's and falling. Kind of cool be be playing ball outside in my opinion.