A tweet from Ohio State freshman quarterback Cardale Jones:
"Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are pointless."
Buckeyes must be proud.
Quote from: ecompt on October 05, 2012, 03:29:16 PM
A tweet from Ohio State freshman quarterback Cardale Jones:
"Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are pointless."
Buckeyes must be proud.
Well at least he's going to class..
Correct that to 47.1%
Shameful. How long until his he puts up a retraction/apology or the coaches take his account down?
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on October 05, 2012, 05:17:08 PM
Shameful. How long until his he puts up a retraction/apology or the coaches take his account down?
His account is already deleted.
I guess if we're talking about suppressing free speech, does anyone remember this incident at MU?
http://thefire.org/article/8130.html (http://thefire.org/article/8130.html)
Dave Berry responded in 09
http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU (http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU)
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 05, 2012, 05:33:08 PM
I guess if we're talking about suppressing free speech, does anyone remember this incident at MU?
http://thefire.org/article/8130.html (http://thefire.org/article/8130.html)
Dave Berry responded in 09
http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU (http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU)
If true, a much bigger issue than LW v bw. ;D
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 05, 2012, 05:33:08 PM
I guess if we're talking about suppressing free speech, does anyone remember this incident at MU?
http://thefire.org/article/8130.html (http://thefire.org/article/8130.html)
Dave Berry responded in 09
http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU (http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU)
Jeez...really? I remember 20+ years ago when member of the Political Science faculty had pictures of aborted fetuses all over his door.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 05, 2012, 05:33:08 PM
I guess if we're talking about suppressing free speech, does anyone remember this incident at MU?
http://thefire.org/article/8130.html (http://thefire.org/article/8130.html)
Dave Berry responded in 09
http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU (http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU)
IMO, it would have been perfectly correct for James South to be fired by Marquette for bullying behavior.
I trust the users of scoop to exercise some degree of skepticism when reading that link. Lots of context missing in that piece of "journalism".
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 05, 2012, 05:33:08 PM
I guess if we're talking about suppressing free speech, does anyone remember this incident at MU?
http://thefire.org/article/8130.html (http://thefire.org/article/8130.html)
Dave Berry responded in 09
http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU (http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU)
This isn't an issue of suppressing speech, it's an issue of an entitled OSU athlete.
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on October 05, 2012, 03:31:08 PM
Well at least he's going to class..
This does not need to be in teal. I also take Jones tweet to mean that he is actually going to class and would prefer not too.
That probably puts him way ahead of must tOSU "Student Athletes."
Quote from: Benny B on October 05, 2012, 09:55:48 PM
This isn't an issue of suppressing speech, it's an issue of an entitled OSU athlete.
Or maybe just an honest one. It makes the NCAA quite nervous to be confronted with the hypocrisy that is created by the NFL and NBA using them for their minor league systems.
Quote from: LittleMurs on October 06, 2012, 05:23:27 PM
Or maybe just an honest one. It makes the NCAA quite nervous to be confronted with the hypocrisy that is created by the NFL and NBA using them for their minor league systems.
Meh... It takes two to tango. If the athletes don't like it, either go overseas or join an arena team for a couple years; otherwise you can pay your dues like everyone else did. Except LeBron, but of course, he's just all kinds of awesome.
Quote from: Benny B on October 07, 2012, 12:57:36 AM
Meh... It takes two to tango. If the athletes don't like it, either go overseas or join an arena team for a couple years; otherwise you can pay your dues like everyone else did. Except LeBron, but of course, he's just all kinds of awesome.
Why should someone be forced to leave their country to work when work is available in their country? Yes, it worked for Brandon Jennings, but it hardly makes sense to force 18-year-old kids to go overseas to play when the NBA and NBADL are right here.
Second, Lebron was afforded that opportunity not because he was awesome, but because at the time everyone had that option. See also: Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, and Kwame Brown.
I love college basketball, but to say the system isn't hypocritical, especially considering how baseball works, is simply foolish. And the one-and-done system has only made it worse. In the past, a Lebron could be honest about things and go straight to the NBA, but by forcing these players to college, you are forcing guys that aren't interested in academics an won't need them for their chosen careers to attend class and by allowing such mercurial talents are encouraging schools like UCLA and Kentucky to find ways to play highest bidder.
It's ludicrous to say that this current system is for the good of the kids or the good of the game.
Oh I think it is good for the NBA game. Instead of scouting a bunch of high schoolers, they get to see them go up against a higher level of competition and simply wait an additional year. It's not good for college basketball, but they don't really have a lot of good options.
Quote from: Benny B on October 05, 2012, 09:55:48 PM
This isn't an issue of suppressing speech, it's an issue of an entitled OSU athlete.
Sure it is. The idea that college athletes should be paid seems to be so radical that Jones shut down his twitter account.
Unfortunate situations like this are reasons why a school is on thefire.org's red light list. Yes, Marquette is on that list.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 07, 2012, 12:17:55 PM
Sure it is. The idea that college athletes should be paid seems to be so radical that Jones shut down his twitter account.
Unfortunate situations like this are reasons why a school is on thefire.org's red light list. Yes, Marquette is on that list.
what's thefire.org? a site with neked ginger chicks?
Ohio State suspended him just for saying classes are pointless. Ridiculous.
https://twitter.com/brdispatch/statuses/254723381696528384 (https://twitter.com/brdispatch/statuses/254723381696528384)
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 07, 2012, 10:12:12 PM
Ohio State suspended him just for saying classes are pointless. Ridiculous.
https://twitter.com/brdispatch/statuses/254723381696528384 (https://twitter.com/brdispatch/statuses/254723381696528384)
Suspending your third string freshman quarterback for a game that he had zero chance of playing in doesn't really mean all that much. It does make it look like they're taking the matter seriously though. Win win.
Quote from: Bocephys on October 07, 2012, 10:52:11 PM
Suspending your third string freshman quarterback for a game that he had zero chance of playing in doesn't really mean all that much. It does make it look like they're taking the matter seriously though. Win win.
It doesn't matter what string he is and it doesn't matter if you agree with his stance. The only thing that matters is that a student was suspended/punished for saying they don't like class. Be wary of such an abuse of power and an administration that will take action against individuals exercising their 1st amendment rights.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 05, 2012, 05:33:08 PM
I guess if we're talking about suppressing free speech, does anyone remember this incident at MU?
http://thefire.org/article/8130.html (http://thefire.org/article/8130.html)
Dave Berry responded in 09
http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU (http://youtu.be/tE3REvTJjXU)
Somehow i missed the Dave Berry incident. How embarrassing.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 09:27:57 AM
It doesn't matter what string he is and it doesn't matter if you agree with his stance. The only thing that matters is that a student was suspended/punished for saying they don't like class. Be wary of such an abuse of power and an administration that will take action against individuals exercising their 1st amendment rights.
This isn't a first amendment issue.
I don't think the government stopped him from saying anything.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on October 08, 2012, 09:37:54 AM
This isn't a first amendment issue.
I don't think the government stopped him from saying anything.
+1 MU is not the Federal Government so the 1st amendment does not apply.
It is amazing now many people forget this little but incredibly important detail.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 07, 2012, 07:17:25 AM
Oh I think it is good for the NBA game. Instead of scouting a bunch of high schoolers, they get to see them go up against a higher level of competition and simply wait an additional year. It's not good for college basketball, but they don't really have a lot of good options.
Exactly. There's nothing technical I learned from 4 years of college that I couldn't have learned in one year of work. What college did get me was the opportunity to network, prove commitment, and learn to cooperate, among other character-building activities.
That's what my employer is paying for over a high school grad with the same technical experience.
For the professional leagues, forcing kids to wait a year or two is good business. It thins the weeds and provides them with talent that has proven they can work in a team-based system.
For college, it sucks...but the NCAA doesn't really hold any cards, here. They can't force four-year maximums. And they can't force the NBA to take one-and-dones.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 09:27:57 AM
It doesn't matter what string he is and it doesn't matter if you agree with his stance. The only thing that matters is that a student was suspended/punished for saying they don't like class. Be wary of such an abuse of power and an administration that will take action against individuals exercising their 1st amendment rights.
He gave up his first amendment rights the second he accepted the scholarship. Now he's a representative of the university and is expected to act as such.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on October 07, 2012, 08:59:47 PM
what's thefire.org? a site with neked ginger chicks?
It's a webiste for people that like to get their panties in a bunch about nothing.
Kind of like this place, actually...
Quote from: Bocephys on October 08, 2012, 11:18:56 AM
He gave up his first amendment rights the second he accepted the scholarship. Now he's a representative of the university and is expected to act as such.
So now you are saying that Ohio State does not allow it's students to practice their rights? It's a public University and as such the Supreme court has overwhelmingly ruled on multiple occasions that students are allowed their right of free speech. Again, this has nothing to do with the stance of Jones statement. Does Ohio State not allow students to express their views about any other topics?
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 11:44:23 AM
So now you are saying that Ohio State does not allow it's students to practice their rights? It's a public University and as such the Supreme court has overwhelmingly ruled on multiple occasions that students are allowed their right of free speech. Again, this has nothing to do with the stance of Jones statement. Does Ohio State not allow students to express their views about any other topics?
I think you are interpreting free speech incorrectly. The dudes have the right to say whatever they want, but the school has the right to punish them for it. And when it comes to students, the court has ruled the have very limited rights while they are in school (Bethel v. Frasier, Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier, Bong Hits For Jesus, etc..)
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 11:44:23 AM
So now you are saying that Ohio State does not allow it's students to practice their rights? It's a public University and as such the Supreme court has overwhelmingly ruled on multiple occasions that students are allowed their right of free speech. Again, this has nothing to do with the stance of Jones statement. Does Ohio State not allow students to express their views about any other topics?
The First Amendment bars the government from imposing any law impeding free speech.
It says nothing about a football team suspending a player who's exercised his free speech rights.
Regardless, suggesting that one ill-advised tweet by one football player "says it all" about the thousands of kids who participate in D-I athletics might be just a tad hyperbolic.
Quote from: pux90mex on October 08, 2012, 11:52:30 AM
I think you are interpreting free speech incorrectly. The dudes have the right to say whatever they want, but the school has the right to punish them for it. And when it comes to students, the court has ruled the have very limited rights while they are in school (Bethel v. Frasier, Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier, Bong Hits For Jesus, etc..)
This.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 11:44:23 AM
Does Ohio State not allow students to express their views about any other topics?
#1 They didn't kick him out of school. He is on an athletic team that has certain rules of conduct. He is being held to those rules.
#2 If he weren't on scholarship, he likely could tweet whatever he wanted. However, even non-scholarship students have some conduct restrictions. Example: A student who is disruptive in class and asked to leave is not having his/her 1st amendment rights violated. There is a code of conduct that students agree to when they enroll.
First amendment rights don't guarantee you the right to say whatever you want whenever you want. C'mon.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on October 08, 2012, 12:12:53 PM
#1 They didn't kick him out of school. He is on an athletic team that has certain rules of conduct. He is being held to those rules.
#2 If he weren't on scholarship, he likely could tweet whatever he wanted. However, even non-scholarship students have some conduct restrictions. Example: A student who is disruptive in class and asked to leave is not having his/her 1st amendment rights violated. There is a code of conduct that students agree to when they enroll.
First amendment rights don't guarantee you the right to say whatever you want whenever you want. C'mon.
Right, but in this instance all Jones did was state that he doesn't like going to class. The earth stood still because no other college student has ever made such an outrageous claim. I don't think he did anything wrong and to punish him in such an extreme manner is wrong.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 12:16:08 PM
Right, but in this instance all Jones did was state that he doesn't like going to class. The earth stood still because no other college student has ever made such an outrageous claim. I don't think he did anything wrong and to punish him in such an extreme manner is wrong.
I think he said a little bit more than he doesn't like going to class, let's not dull his statement out here. He made it clear what he meant, football not education.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 12:16:08 PM
Right, but in this instance all Jones did was state that he doesn't like going to class. The earth stood still because no other college student has ever made such an outrageous claim. I don't think he did anything wrong and to punish him in such an extreme manner is wrong.
He's held to a higher standard by the nature of having a scholarship and being on the football team. Nobodies get away with more stuff than people in the public eye. If some kid starts tweeting about how he came to school to get drunk, not go to class and his parents saw it, wouldn't they do something since they're paying his tuition? Is that a free speech violation too? I'm pretty sure we're still allowed to hold people accountable for their actions and how they reflect upon the institution providing them a free education.
Quote from: Bocephys on October 08, 2012, 12:44:57 PM
He's held to a higher standard by the nature of having a scholarship and being on the football team. Nobodies get away with more stuff than people in the public eye. If some kid starts tweeting about how he came to school to get drunk, not go to class and his parents saw it, wouldn't they do something since they're paying his tuition? Is that a free speech violation too? I'm pretty sure we're still allowed to hold people accountable for their actions and how they reflect upon the institution providing them a free education.
1. What standard are you referring to? Does that standard discriminate against students that are not on scholarship of any kind?
2. What do parents paying a student's tuition have to do with free speech? (it doesn't). This also wrongfully assumes that all parents provide financial aid for their kids.
3. By "holding people accountable" you really mean using force against those that have a different point of view than you. "He should be suspended because he said, 'classes are pointless.'" What?
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
1. What standard are you referring to? Does that standard discriminate against students that are not on scholarship of any kind?
2. What do parents paying a student's tuition have to do with free speech? (it doesn't). This also wrongfully assumes that all parents provide financial aid for their kids.
3. By "holding people accountable" you really mean using force against those that have a different point of view than you. "He should be suspended because he said, 'classes are pointless.'" What?
1. Most athletes have to sign into an athletic code of conduct. That is likely the standard he is referring to.
2. It doesn't. Sort of a non-sequitur.
3. Using terms like "using force" and the imagery of a police state university is just ridiculous. He signed a code of conduct to act in a certain manner or face possible action by a university. Basically, a contract. Moreover, the law supports the use of such "accountability procedures" in an academic situation.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on October 08, 2012, 02:31:19 PM
3. Using terms like "using force" and the imagery of a police state university is just ridiculous. He signed a code of conduct to act in a certain manner or face possible action by a university. Basically, a contract. Moreover, the law supports the use of such "accountability procedures" in an academic situation.
But at what point is it not ok to say something "is pointless"? Would he be suspended if he said "books are pointless"? "Seat belts are pointless"? "Tutors are pointless"? "Study hour is pointless"? "Combs are pointless"?
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 02:41:27 PM
But at what point is it not ok to say something "is pointless"? Would he be suspended if he said "books are pointless"? "Seat belts are pointless"? "Tutors are pointless"? "Study hour is pointless"? "Combs are pointless"?
This thread is pointless. I give up.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 02:41:27 PM
But at what point is it not ok to say something "is pointless"? Would he be suspended if he said "books are pointless"? "Seat belts are pointless"? "Tutors are pointless"? "Study hour is pointless"? "Combs are pointless"?
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on October 08, 2012, 11:36:06 AM
It's a webiste for people that like to get their panties in a bunch about nothing.
Kind of like this place, actually...
I ain't come to MUSCOOP to learn about no 1st amendment!
When the suits start mudding the water, common sense goes out the door.
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 12:16:08 PM
Right, but in this instance all Jones did was state that he doesn't like going to class. The earth stood still because no other college student has ever made such an outrageous claim. I don't think he did anything wrong and to punish him in such an extreme manner is wrong.
I didn't say punishing him was the correct thing to do, I just said that it's not a 1st amendment issue.
If the federal or state government suspended or expelled him, then that would be a 1st amendment issue.
As it stands, it's a team enforcing it's code of conduct. The University is funding by taxpayers, but that doesn't mean that it cannot create a set of conduct rules for it's students.
The first amendment provides you protection and freedom vs government and it's agencies... not freedom from your football coach (or teachers, parents, bosses, property managers, etc.)
Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on October 08, 2012, 02:41:27 PM
But at what point is it not ok to say something "is pointless"? Would he be suspended if he said "books are pointless"? "Seat belts are pointless"? "Tutors are pointless"? "Study hour is pointless"? "Combs are pointless"?
I know you are upset about this, but at this juncture the only thing I hear is "TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" when you talk in combination with the peanuts noise.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on October 08, 2012, 06:44:14 PM
I know you are upset about this, but at this juncture the only thing I hear is "TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" when you talk in combination with the peanuts noise.
http://youtu.be/zqiucizG4hk (http://youtu.be/zqiucizG4hk)
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 07, 2012, 07:12:33 AM
Why should someone be forced to leave their country to work when work is available in their country? Yes, it worked for Brandon Jennings, but it hardly makes sense to force 18-year-old kids to go overseas to play when the NBA and NBADL are right here.
Second, Lebron was afforded that opportunity not because he was awesome, but because at the time everyone had that option. See also: Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, and Kwame Brown.
I love college basketball, but to say the system isn't hypocritical, especially considering how baseball works, is simply foolish. And the one-and-done system has only made it worse. In the past, a Lebron could be honest about things and go straight to the NBA, but by forcing these players to college, you are forcing guys that aren't interested in academics an won't need them for their chosen careers to attend class and by allowing such mercurial talents are encouraging schools like UCLA and Kentucky to find ways to play highest bidder.
It's ludicrous to say that this current system is for the good of the kids or the good of the game.
Frankly, I'm all for free-market professional sports -- everyone's a free agent from day one, performance-based contracts are allowed, no drafts, no age minimums, no lockouts, etc. -- but face it, that's not going to happen. So if you want to be a professional athlete, you can follow the path your employer sets or you can find another employer; otherwise, find a different profession.