Anyone know what Dameon Mason, James Matthews, Karon Bradley, etc. are up to? I know that D-Mas went to LSU, Matthew to U of Detroit and Bradley to Wichita State (I think), but I haven't heard what they are doing now. It's been a couple of years. Anyone fill me in?
Bradley was starting and playing well for Wichita State, IIRC. Matthews hasn't done anything, and Mason hasn't been a factor for LSU, either.
You forgot to mention the wonderfully talented, NBA prospect Carlton Christian, who left his second school and faded into obscurity.
You can make the case that Crean blew it when he recruited some of these guys, but except for Blankson and Bradley, none of the MU transfers have done anything of note at their new schools. And, you certainly can't make the case that Crean "ran off" either one of those guys.
James Matthews is going to be a senior at Eastern Michigan this year. Last year he saw action in 23 games, starting five. He averaged 4.6 points and 3 rebounds per game.
Dameon Mason had a very interesting year at LSU. He began the season as a starter, but played poorly and by mid-season was coming off the bench. Overall he averaged 19 minutes per game, scoring 5.4 ppg. The grass isn't always greener.
Carlton Christian, I believe, transferred to Central Florida but never made it on campus. I have no idea what he's up to these days.
Brandon Bell started most of last year at Detroit, averaging aboiut 23 minutes and 6.3 points per game. He's going to be a senior there, I believe.
Quote from: ozmetal71 on July 06, 2007, 09:43:05 AM
You forgot to mention the wonderfully talented, NBA prospect Carlton Christian, who left his second school and faded into obscurity.
It wasn't so much that he left as it is he was asked not to come back. He some how managed to get kicked off the team before he played a game for UCF, then left school for good after that.
That is absolutely false. MU fully expected him to come back and he decided not to. If you would like to look it up in the archives, Crean was quoted a number of times in the JS saying he expected him back. Christian was finally tracked down in Florida whereby he said something along the lines of...They keep calling me but I have told them I am not coming back.
I have no idea about his attitidude etc. But I think he could have become a fine player. Part of the reason for Mu's struggles previous to the Big 3 was Crean signed a numer of kids he never should have. Christian, Amo, Mason, ODB do not fall in this category. menard, niv, kinsella, bradley, lott and many others do.
Quote from: Harrison on July 06, 2007, 10:51:00 AM
That is absolutely false. MU fully expected him to come back and he decided not to. If you would like to look it up in the archives, Crean was quoted a number of times in the JS saying he expected him back. Christian was finally tracked down in Florida whereby he said something along the lines of...They keep calling me but I have told them I am not coming back.
I have no idea about his attitidude etc. But I think he could have become a fine player. Part of the reason for Mu's struggles previous to the Big 3 was Crean signed a numer of kids he never should have. Christian, Amo, Mason, ODB do not fall in this category. menard, niv, kinsella, bradley, lott and many others do.
I believe you're mistaking which situation bma was addressing. Unless I'm entirely misreading it, he's saying that Christian was kicked out of UCF, not Marquette.
As for Christian's ability, the facts speak for themselves. And the facts are that after leaving Marquette, his best option was a smallish D-I program in Central Florida. After getting the boot from UCF, he has for all intents dropped off the face of the basketball world. Clearly his talent wasn't anything special, and certainly not as special as he believed.
Quote from: Harrison on July 06, 2007, 10:51:00 AM
That is absolutely false. MU fully expected him to come back and he decided not to. If you would like to look it up in the archives, Crean was quoted a number of times in the JS saying he expected him back. Christian was finally tracked down in Florida whereby he said something along the lines of...They keep calling me but I have told them I am not coming back.
I meant asked not to come back by UCF, not MU. The UCF coach didn't want him hanging out with his players because he thought his attitude was terrible.
Got ya....I beleive his talnet was actually something special. recall he had a huge series of games for the Flordia all stars and won the Florida HS triple jump championship. It was clear on the court his freshman year that he had a tremendous amount of ability and potential. But that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.
If would appear he had neither the disciplene, toughness or attitude to compete at the D1 levle...too bad for him. have been thousands of kids over the years with all the talent just not the marbles
Crean may have made some mistakes by signing guys but Bradley was definitely not one of them. By all accounts he was tearing it leading into his frosh season and then hurt his knee pretty badly - and he still wound up contributing towards the end of the season on a bum knee. Bradley was more of a case of bad luck than anything else as he didn't seem to be the freak athletically he was before the injury
Carlton Christian was a freak of nature...or so we were led to believe. His claim to fame: blocking Dwight Howard in an AAU game. I honestly think the kid had talent but never meshed in MU's system - or any "system" for that matter looking at his problems.
Here's are some updates:
Ryan Amoroso (http://goaztecs.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/amoroso_ryan00.html)
He'll be playing with former UL forward, Lorenzo Wade, this year.
Karon Bradley End of Year Stats (Final Wichita State Year) (http://admin.xosn.com/fls/7500/stats/mbasketball/2006/TEAMCUME.HTM?ATCLID=654066&SPSID=61182&SPID=2851&DB_OEM_ID=7500)
(http://www.wichita.edu/thisis/images/secondary/banners/athletics_hoarse.jpg)
who cares?
I cant wait to see Hayward play this year!
Quote from: Harrison on July 06, 2007, 12:53:50 PM
Got ya....I beleive his talnet was actually something special. recall he had a huge series of games for the Flordia all stars and won the Florida HS triple jump championship. It was clear on the court his freshman year that he had a tremendous amount of ability and potential. But that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.
If would appear he had neither the disciplene, toughness or attitude to compete at the D1 levle...too bad for him. have been thousands of kids over the years with all the talent just not the marbles
I agree about his talent. He really came on at the end of his first year and thought that would lead to some strong momentum for his future. I do remember he wanted so badly to be a 'Wade' type player for MU and seeing as though he was spot duty most of the year that may have clouded his thinking. He would've been a very nice bench/role player on those subsequent teams because they lacked the toughness and the defensive get-up that he had.
Also, I thought his claim to fame was not a block of Dwight Howard but a dunk over Amare Stoudemire?
Harrison....easy on Niv, o.k.? I'm doing quite well...in Israel.
Quote from: Harrison on July 06, 2007, 10:51:00 AM
Part of the reason for Mu's struggles previous to the Big 3 was Crean signed a numer of kids he never should have. Christian, Amo, Mason, ODB do not fall in this category. menard, niv, kinsella, bradley, lott and many others do.
Kinsella absolutely should have been signed. It's not like the kid planned on being hurt so much. As far as I can tell he has a good attitude, is a team player, and does what's asked for him. Put that in a 7' package and that's a recruit that MU should sign each and every time. Sometimes injuries just happen.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on July 07, 2007, 09:38:06 AM
Carlton Christian was a freak of nature...or so we were led to believe. His claim to fame: blocking Dwight Howard in an AAU game. I honestly think the kid had talent but never meshed in MU's system - or any "system" for that matter looking at his problems.
Here's are some updates:
Ryan Amoroso (http://goaztecs.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/amoroso_ryan00.html)
He'll be playing with former UL forward, Lorenzo Wade, this year.
Karon Bradley End of Year Stats (Final Wichita State Year) (http://admin.xosn.com/fls/7500/stats/mbasketball/2006/TEAMCUME.HTM?ATCLID=654066&SPSID=61182&SPID=2851&DB_OEM_ID=7500)
(http://www.wichita.edu/thisis/images/secondary/banners/athletics_hoarse.jpg)
I actually thought Christian's 'claim to fame' was that he dunked on Amare Stoudamire. Comical nonetheless.
actually, both Josh Howard and Amare Stoutamire dunked on him. :P
The issue that I had with Bradley was the fact that he was a 5'9" 2G guard. Crean felt he could become a combo over time and knee or not he was a poor ball handler. It became clear over time that he would never become a PG, thus we were left with a impish 2G. A terrible mistake by Crean? No, but clearly became a player that would never contribute in any material sense.
Kinsella was 7 feet tall no doubt. However he signed with Rice out of HS for a reason. I recall reading a few scouting services that were very suprised when MU offered and if I recall Mu was the only BCS school to ever offer. Now could he have proven me and the services wrong with a a good career? Perhaps, but it never happened for whatever reason, I beleive ability had as much of a factor as the injuries.
Now pertaining to Niv... give me a break. I have never and i say never which includes hundreds of college basketball games over 20+ years seen a player as over matched and out of his league as NIv. Opposing PG's had to be besides themselves when he checked in. The poor young man could not even get the ball over half court against modest pressure. Absolutely brutal looked like a HS JV player out there, as overwhelmed and as overmatched as anything I have ever witnessed. I am sure he was a great kid as bradley and Kinsella and Lott appereared to be, but they should have never been given the opportunity to play at the high D1 level, and Niv was DIII or NAIA at best. Simply not good enough.
Frankly, I thought Bradley was equally as over-matched as Niv. He was painful to watch as well.
Quote from: Harrison on July 10, 2007, 09:09:51 AM
Now pertaining to Niv... give me a break. I have never and i say never which includes hundreds of college basketball games over 20+ years seen a player as over matched and out of his league as NIv. Opposing PG's had to be besides themselves when he checked in. The poor young man could not even get the ball over half court against modest pressure. Absolutely brutal looked like a HS JV player out there, as overwhelmed and as overmatched as anything I have ever witnessed. I am sure he was a great kid as bradley and Kinsella and Lott appereared to be, but they should have never been given the opportunity to play at the high D1 level, and Niv was DIII or NAIA at best. Simply not good enough.
Let's also keep in mind the circumstances on Niv.
He was recruited in September--after the school year began and a gaping hole for a backup point guard.
So for all you who keep hapring on this "mistake," what would you do under the following circumstances:
--You have no backup PG
--You have an open scholarship
--You learn of an availble PG with decent pedigree (NBA-player dad, decent #s in euro leauges)
--You learn that a confernce rival (DePaul) is ready to sign him if you don't
--You know of no other capable PGs available to sign
On this board we have the worlds best Monday Morning Quarterbacks. "Oh, Niv was a huge mistake--Crean never should have recruited him."
And what would you all be saying today if Crean actually
had taken a pass and let DePaul sign him? We'd no doubt be be hearing the complants about Crean letting a backup PG slip through his fingers--a backup that would have saved us when Diener was injured.
Anyone who says taking Niv was a mistake go back and put yourself in the situation that Crean was in
at the time he signed Niv. Then tell me you wouldn't have done
EXACTLY the same thing.
Of course, Bradley had a very nice two years at Witchita State. He was not overmatched. I had no problem with him off the bench. Now, Brandon Bell was a deer in the headlights. Saw him in the MU-UDM game last December and he really was not much better (though injuries have taken a toll here after he left MU). Niv really really was not that bad. His problem is that he was totally out of synch coming in at mid-season to a foreign land and a brand od BB he was unfamiliar with (and a style that did not truly fit MU). I really think that he would have made some solid contributions if he had come in during the summer and had a year of practice under his belt. He did have some nice moments. Just an unfortunate situation.
I seem to recall Bradley playing quite well as a freshman, and hitting some big shots. Didn't he hit a three against Pitt in the Sweet Sixteen?
Bradley was more suited to play the 2G, and he felt that he could get more playing time on a smaller stage, and he played well for some good Wichita State teams.
Quote from: ozmetal71 on July 10, 2007, 10:05:05 AM
I seem to recall Bradley playing quite well as a freshman, and hitting some big shots. Didn't he hit a three against Pitt in the Sweet Sixteen?
Bradley was more suited to play the 2G, and he felt that he could get more playing time on a smaller stage, and he played well for some good Wichita State teams.
Bradley also hit a big 3 in the first half against Kentucky.
Bradley, Chapman, and Novak all played really well in the NCAA run in '03, with Novak of course going nuts against Missouri in OT.
Our bench that year was most freshman, and they stepped up. I remember concerns that year about depth.
That Novak shooting display is still one of my all-time favorite MU basketball memories, and I got to see it in person.
To say Bradley was not overmatched becuase he had 2 "good"?, i would agree to decent, years at Witchita state. Exactly proves my point. he was overmatched playing in C-USA and it would have been even worse in the BE. However, at Witchita State be had a decent career. Bradley, illinois state, etc, etc of the world's is where he belonged, not in the BE or playing against memphis etc. Dont forget he had an extra year as atransfer to improve his game as awell
Now in followup to the the Niv posts...I beleive we all remember the the situation. But that in no way changes the fact that whether it be Strohm or Crean, we made a huge mistake in believing he had the game to help. i also think it is a bit niave on your part to say he was the "only" available PG. I recall we were evaluating a couple of others. And the whole deal on "he was new", "midseason", "from other parts", etc. What a bunch of baloney...did you ever play sports past grade shool? Throw young men on a court, field, pitch, or whatever and you can either play or you cannot. He was grossly out skilled and had no where near the strength or athleticism to play D1 basketball.
Niv was a recruiting error made out of desperation because we lost Bell.
Quote from: Harrison on July 10, 2007, 10:40:35 AM
Throw young men on a court, field, pitch, or whatever and you can either play or you cannot. He was grossly out skilled and had no where near the strength or athleticism to play D1 basketball.
Fine. Berkowitz was thrown on the court at the U18 European championships.
He proved he could shoot 50% and score 15 ppg at that level.
Please tell me how you can be
so certain of the differences between the euro leagues and US high schools that a 15 ppg/50% FG% a Euro league player is so lacking in skills, strenght and athleticism that you'd rather have an open hole in your roster than take a chance on him.
If you're saying now that you would have made a different decision than Tom Crean, then I don't believe you're being honest. I think you're likely using information that wasn't available
at the time[/i].
Where did I ever said I would prefer an open spot on the roster to Niv? Never said that, in fact, what I did say was we were evaluating other PG's as well. And as it was clear from the moment he stepped on the court he was over matched. We made a mistake...relax...I am sure Crean waould admit as well. Dont think you can ask him to bat 1.000 in a case like that, but with that said Niv was clearly a miss.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 10, 2007, 09:28:59 AM
Frankly, I thought Bradley was equally as over-matched as Niv. He was painful to watch as well.
This was my bad. I meant Bell.
I thought Karon Bradley was a solid player for us and not at all painful to watch.
Quote from: ozmetal71 on July 10, 2007, 11:06:01 AM
Niv was a recruiting error made out of desperation because we lost Bell.
Bell was a loss when we had him- he simply never panned out. The strength of his brother's play got him to MU, IMHO.
True, but without him we were looking at playing Marcus Jackson at point center......oh wait, that actually happened later in 04-05.....that season was the low point for Crean, because regardless of Diener's injury, Crean's recruiting failures killed us that year.
Quote from: ozmetal71 on July 10, 2007, 02:00:59 PM
True, but without him we were looking at playing Marcus Jackson at point center......oh wait, that actually happened later in 04-05.....that season was the low point for Crean, because regardless of Diener's injury, Crean's recruiting failures killed us that year.
He's had a couple classes of complete whiffs.
I have hope for last year's freshman class. I think it is overshadowed by the hype from James, McNeal and Matthews, but it could turn out to be as good...if not better. I really like Cubillan and I have a feeling Hayward was only scratching the surface last year. I think both of those guys are more enjoyable to watch than the other three -- except maybe McNeal, who's fun to watch.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 10, 2007, 02:12:39 PM
Quote from: ozmetal71 on July 10, 2007, 02:00:59 PM
True, but without him we were looking at playing Marcus Jackson at point center......oh wait, that actually happened later in 04-05.....that season was the low point for Crean, because regardless of Diener's injury, Crean's recruiting failures killed us that year.
He's had a couple classes of complete whiffs.
I have hope for last year's freshman class. I think it is overshadowed by the hype from James, McNeal and Matthews, but it could turn out to be as good...if not better. I really like Cubillan and I have a feeling Hayward was only scratching the surface last year. I think both of those guys are more enjoyable to watch than the other three -- except maybe McNeal, who's fun to watch.
I like Cooby's fire and grit... but man, his stats are kind of brutal. Look at his 2pt FG% and his FT%. I think he is a decent/good 3pt threat, a good ball handler and a decent defender (puts out a lot of effort).
BUT, I don't think he is the scorer or distributor some people think he is. I don't remember him ever creating for himself or for others using the dribble.
With that said, I think he has some nice upside as an energy guy off of the bench. He can ignite the team by hitting 3pters and playing some gritty D. I just don't expect him to be the guy that some people think he will be.
Oh, and I like Lazar a lot as well. He has the best hands since Blankson. He's not the rebounder or defender that blankson was, but he has nice hands and a good feel around the hoop for getting his shot off.
correct about cooby...love his fire and grit as well. but he never pentrated or created off the dibble. His value to Mu last year was giving the big 3 a breather hitting some threes and playing solid defense. he will impove butremains a 2G in a PG's body for now.
I knew i wasn't crazy so I went back to try and find some evidence of Bradley doing well before injuring himself in 2002. And here it is: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20021113/ai_n10842594
Also here's a video of him pre-injury at midnight madness 2002 where the 5'9'' off guard nearly hits his head on the rim
EDIT*:
apparently the embedding didn't work so here's the direct link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY_zpRirq3I
Quote from: augoman on July 10, 2007, 01:45:15 PM
Quote from: ozmetal71 on July 10, 2007, 11:06:01 AM
Niv was a recruiting error made out of desperation because we lost Bell.
Bell was a loss when we had him- he simply never panned out. The strength of his brother's play got him to MU, IMHO.
Bell was also offered by Arizona among others. Sometimes guys just don't pan out, but Bell was looked at fairly highly by some name schools.