I may be way off base on this, but did it strike anyone else as strange that Marquette hired an outside investigator to deal with such a minor infraction committed by an assistant coach?
Again, maybe I'm naive, but here's how this could have been handled: MU learns of the violation and LW brings Buzz and Monarch into his office. Says, "Look guys, I know this is a minor violation, but the only way it stays that way is if you're absolutely truthful about it. As it stands, Scott, if the allegation is true you're looking at a reprimand and a short suspension. If false, we'll back you 100%, but the one thing we won't tolerate is you lying. Do that and you're gone."
I just can't imagine Monarch lying under those circumstances.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on August 26, 2012, 12:59:22 PM
I may be way off base on this, but did it strike anyone else as strange that Marquette hired an outside investigator to deal with such a minor infraction committed by an assistant coach?
Again, maybe I'm naive, but here's how this could have been handled: MU learns of the violation and LW brings Buzz and Monarch into his office. Says, "Look guys, I know this is a minor violation, but the only way it stays that way is if you're absolutely truthful about it. As it stands, Scott, if the allegation is true you're looking at a reprimand and a short suspension. If false, will back you 100%, but the one thing we won't tolerate is you lying. Do that and you're gone."
I just can't imagine Monarch lying under those circumstances.
With how the NCAA is operating now this is going to become much more commonplace IMO.
I think the real issue here is if it really was a minor infraction. To me the punishment is extreme if it was minor. Possibly it was bigger thing and LW put out the fire. My bet is Larry put out the fire.
Quote from: Goose on August 26, 2012, 01:08:05 PM
I think the real issue here is if really was a minor infraction. To me the punishment is extremely extreme if it was minor. Possibly it was bigger thing and LW put out the fire. My bet is Larry put out the fire.
The issue was the lying. The NCAA has said it treats lying way more harshly than the actual offense. Pretty much lying will get you fired every time with NCAA infractions now. And head coaches are responsible for their assistant coaches whether or not they know what the assistants are doing and has said ignorance is not an acceptable excuse for lack of control.
They needed an airtight case to get rid of Monarch too. Employment law and all...
My guess is that the AD did not believe what Monarch was telling him. That is when the outside investigator was hired to get to the truth as much as possible. What I would find the most interesting is how the violations came to light. Did Buzz hear about a potential violation and tell Larry Williams or did Larry hear about it from someone else?
We should ask Don Walker, he may know.
Www.buckyville.com. Ask these guys, they handled the investigation.
The process made sense to me. Gives the appearance of complete objectivity. Common process at this level.
Lenny, your question is a good one.
It's not unusual.
Google tells me both Oregon and UNC currently have independent investigators looking at possible violations at their programs. Michigan has done so multiple times. Florida State, too. Even the mighty Chadron State.
The benefit of an independent investigation is that it a) has more credibility than an internal investigation and b) if taken at face value by the NCAA, it lessens the likelihood they'll send their own people sniffing around the program.
None of us knows the real story, but this much I do know: I am completely fed up with the MU soap opera. This crap goes on and on and on. Transfers...suspensions...assistants leaving...rumors of the head coach leaving. And spare me the nonsense that this happens at all major programs. It doesn't.
Quote from: Groin_pull on August 26, 2012, 09:14:38 PM
None of us knows the real story, but this much I do know: I am completely fed up with the MU soap opera. This crap goes on and on and on. Transfers...suspensions...assistants leaving...rumors of the head coach leaving. And spare me the nonsense that this happens at all major programs. It doesn't.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Gaithersburg_train_station_1.jpg)
Quote from: Chili on August 26, 2012, 01:27:24 PM
The issue was the lying. The NCAA has said it treats lying way more harshly than the actual offense. Pretty much lying will get you fired every time with NCAA infractions now. And head coaches are responsible for their assistant coaches whether or not they know what the assistants are doing and has said ignorance is not an acceptable excuse for lack of control.
+1. Just look at Bruce Pearl for how the lying game turns a minor violation into an exposé into the coach and his program that gets him and his staff suspended, fined, and then NCAA blacklisted.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on August 26, 2012, 12:59:22 PM
I may be way off base on this, but did it strike anyone else as strange that Marquette hired an outside investigator to deal with such a minor infraction committed by an assistant coach?
Again, maybe I'm naive, but here's how this could have been handled: MU learns of the violation and LW brings Buzz and Monarch into his office. Says, "Look guys, I know this is a minor violation, but the only way it stays that way is if you're absolutely truthful about it. As it stands, Scott, if the allegation is true you're looking at a reprimand and a short suspension. If false, we'll back you 100%, but the one thing we won't tolerate is you lying. Do that and you're gone."
I just can't imagine Monarch lying under those circumstances.
Maybe LW couldn't imagine it either, and that's why he fired Monarch when he established that in fact it happened.
Thank God, MU
did hire an outside investigator who was able to uncover the truth, so MU could self report it, rather than the University getting hit by the NCAA for a violation that the NCAA itself discovered.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on August 26, 2012, 09:17:52 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Gaithersburg_train_station_1.jpg)
Why did you post a picture of your crib?
Quote from: Groin_pull on August 26, 2012, 09:14:38 PM
None of us knows the real story, but this much I do know: I am completely fed up with the MU soap opera. This crap goes on and on and on. Transfers...suspensions...assistants leaving...rumors of the head coach leaving. And spare me the nonsense that this happens at all major programs. It doesn't.
Would you care to name some big time schools where this stuff hasn't happened.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 26, 2012, 01:56:37 PM
They needed an airtight case to get rid of Monarch too. Employment law and all...
I guess we'll see if the lawsuit comes.
I'm pretty sure that there has been a settlement already negotiated.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 27, 2012, 08:21:21 AM
I'm pretty sure that there has been a settlement already negotiated.
Probably not. He would have resigned if that were the case.
Quote from: ATWizJr on August 27, 2012, 08:39:16 AM
Probably not. He would have resigned if that were the case.
And not have a chance to draw unemployment benefits? It's not like Monarch has a bunch of options out there. I would have elected to be terminated involuntarily (i.e. fired) too if I was Monarch.
Quote from: Benny B on August 27, 2012, 08:45:30 AM
And not have a chance to draw unemployment benefits? It's not like Monarch has a bunch of options out there. I would have elected to be terminated involuntarily (i.e. fired) too if I was Monarch.
which reinforces the point, that there was probably not a settlement.
Why would an organization do a settlement if someone was untruthful? It's not a good business practice to be making settlements when some one is let go "for cause".
In this case, a settlement would have been more appropriate had Monarch been up front to begin with, and the university wanted to move in a different direction.
Quote from: Benny B on August 27, 2012, 08:45:30 AM
And not have a chance to draw unemployment benefits? It's not like Monarch has a bunch of options out there. I would have elected to be terminated involuntarily (i.e. fired) too if I was Monarch.
People fired for cause, like Monarch, typically aren't eligible for unemployment benefits.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on August 26, 2012, 12:59:22 PM
I may be way off base on this, but did it strike anyone else as strange that Marquette hired an outside investigator to deal with such a minor infraction committed by an assistant coach?
They want indpendent verification to prove this is an isolated case and not tip of the iceberg.
Internal investigations are inherently biased. An outside 3rd party (as long as they are trusted by the NCAA) helps MU go to the NCAA and credibly claim that they've made every possible effort to find everything there is to find.
And if anything else ever is found, part of the defense will be that whomever violated the rules was good enough to not only conceal it from MU own staff, but also the professional outside investigators brought in.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on August 27, 2012, 06:17:39 AM
Would you care to name some big time schools where this stuff hasn't happened.
You're right, every college hoops program in the country deals with this same drama. Silly me. ::)