It is sad what has happened to Monty Ball but rumors are swirling that Montee beat up that group of guys friends at a an off campus party (If you ask me I dont think that he beat them up and this is all a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors). The funny part is that the MKE media and talk radio keeps talking about how this must be some sort of a mistake, Monty would never hit anyone, Brett Bielema would have kicked him off the team if this actually happened.... ETC ETC ETC. How come the media was so quick to side with Monty Ball and on the flip side so quick to bash DJO (Bill Michaels actually said on his radio program after the report happened that DJO hit some guy over the head with a bottle putting him into a coma).
If you ask me, it is time for us to embrace are role as the bad guy if that is what the media is creating for us
Guys don't get beat nearly to death without a reason.
He got what he deserved.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on August 04, 2012, 11:03:57 AM
If you ask me, it is time for us to embrace are role as the bad guy if that is what the media is creating for us
do you type your posts or dictate them via Siri, Vlingo, Dragon, etc.?
Mr. Curious
The rumors are there was a "fight" at a football players house.
Quote from: PTM on August 04, 2012, 11:43:14 AM
He got what he deserved.
And that's pretty classless.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 04, 2012, 11:49:49 AM
The rumors are there was a "fight" at a football players house.
And that's pretty classless.
Having a bunch of athletes attack an individual for you over a girl? That's classless.
I'm glad the individual got his retribution against Ball and hopefully drags UW through a mud a bit.
Quote from: PTM on August 04, 2012, 11:59:46 AM
Having a bunch of athletes attack an individual for you over a girl? That's classless.
I'm glad the individual got his retribution against Ball and hopefully drags UW through a mud a bit.
Until you know the whole story, saying someone deserved to get beaten is classless. Period.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 04, 2012, 12:15:31 PM
Until you know the whole story, saying someone deserved to get beaten is classless. Period.
The story is well-known already in Madison.
This isn't the first time Montee has had a problem, just the first time someone decided to retaliate against the football machine in Madison. We'll see how much actually becomes uncovered, MPD will try to keep a cap on it.
Quote from: PTM on August 04, 2012, 12:23:41 PM
The story is well-known already in Madison.
This isn't the first time Montee has had a problem, just the first time someone decided to retaliate against the football machine in Madison. We'll see how much actually becomes uncovered, MPD will try to keep a cap on it.
Regardless, if the rumors are true, he didn't deserve to get beaten.
And if you think this is going to somehow expose the football team, all such retaliation does is turn them into victims.
Quote from: PTM on August 04, 2012, 12:23:41 PM
The story is well-known already in Madison.
This isn't the first time Montee has had a problem, just the first time someone decided to retaliate against the football machine in Madison. We'll see how much actually becomes uncovered, MPD will try to keep a cap on it.
I've witnessed past MU bball players fight students as well. Does that mean they deserve to get jumped as well ::)
(A) Let's stop being petty. Nobody 'deserves' to get jumped by 5 guys. (B) kenosha isn't by definition wrong. If the version that PTM has heard is accurate, then a whole load of buckyworld needs to either condemn Ball or apologize to MU. I am sure there will be an outbreak of zephyrs as they try to spin this and find a way to make MU seems dirtier.
So, what happened...allegedly? Haven't heard the story yet.
I would also enjoy more details in pm form if necessary.
Quote from: awilhelmscream on August 04, 2012, 01:38:05 PM
I've witnessed past MU bball players fight students as well. Does that mean they deserve to get jumped as well ::)
I sure wouldn't feel bad about them getting a taste of their own medicine.
http://www.tmz.com/2012/08/03/montee-ball-cops-interview-house-party-fight-university-of-wisconsin/?adid=hero1
No predictions on where this ends up.
Quote from: tower912 on August 04, 2012, 02:38:34 PM
http://www.tmz.com/2012/08/03/montee-ball-cops-interview-house-party-fight-university-of-wisconsin/?adid=hero1
No predictions on where this ends up.
Damn, TMZ is covering Madison now?
I guess saying he deserved to be jumped may be a little much, but I do not feel bad for a guy that points goons around to beat up other people when the same thing happens to him.
I enjoy everytime UW gets beaten, but I do not enjoy their players getting beaten up.
This is (mostly) truly pathetic. :'(
Very much like most of your posts............
Quote from: butchbadger on August 04, 2012, 08:48:53 PM
This is (mostly) truly pathetic. :'(
It seems Milwaukee news outlets have given equal attention to this story and "Six MU players walk into a bar". Though the national media has the sense to realize the stories aren't equal and is all over this incident and the MU story rightfully didn't even make their radar.
So what's worse... Not calling the police or having the police bury the story?
http://www.tmz.com/person/montee-ball/
The Madison Police Department straight up LIED to the media about its investigation into the Montee Ball attack ... and tried to throw TMZ under the bus ... but their plan has backfired ... big time.
TMZ broke the story ... the Madison Police Department HAD launched in an investigation into tips that Ball and several of his UW football teammates beat up a man at a party on July 27 ... several days before Ball was attacked on campus. Cops told the media that the TMZ report was not true.
They lied.
After cops made their false statement, TMZ broke another story -- cops had interviewed the person who claimed he was brutally injured by Ball and others on July 27... and wanted to know if the alleged victim had ordered a retaliatory strike on Ball.
Today, cops released a NEW statement .... finally admitting what we had already told you -- that investigators were indeed looking into the July 27 event.
Cops have now said ... "Through information developed by detectives, [The Madison PD has] determined that there was a fight that occurred Friday night which involved UW students, members of the UW football team, and other individuals that were not affiliated with the University of Wisconsin's Athletics Department."
The statement continues, "We have also determined that Montee Ball was present at the location of that fight, but we have no information that leads us to believe that he had any involvement in that particular event."
We called the MPD for comment -- for some reason, they don't want to talk to us.
It's going to be hilarious to see either Illinois, Indiana or Purdue in the B1G championship game this year.
Quote from: butchbadger on August 04, 2012, 08:48:53 PM
This is (mostly) truly pathetic. :'(
Perhaps. But it is mouse nuts compare to the vitriol that came from the red-wearing MU haters when a bunch of MU ballplayers were cited for being in a bar but not drinking. Go back and read some of the stuff on the badger boards. Whose invective is/was worse?
seeing as how we don't have a football team, i don't mind rooting for bucky pigskin, but that's usually where it ends. i do think bo ryan is a b-ball genius-yes he's a whiner, but i respect his abilities. that being said, the incident in question-there's a big elephant in the room. this kind of schmit goes on all over the place. badger football pride got in the way of common sense. of course any whiff of common sense goes out the window when akahall and other illicit ingredients come into the mix. then add a female(i hope) and the testosterone begins to fly. now you've got the tribal attitude going and i'm really surprised someone didn't get capped or stuck. so it is refreshing to see the disagreement was handled without lawyers guns and money...so far
So, the Madison media and cops hide an incident involving UW Athletics and the only reason it comes to light is TMZ? Pathetic. TMZ is the most reliable and only source for info on this? Wow!
Some traditional media types and the cops should be ashamed! But they won't be, business as usual.
Does Ball get charged with obstruction and lying to the cops. Of course not. In Madison I guess ya gotta take things Into your own hand vigilante style, if it involves UW Athletics. I guess Ball will be kicked off the team, now, of course. Not. Maybe suspended from participating in practice for a week while he is recovering, retroactive once discipline is imposed in February!
Yeah, we're the dirty school that accepts JUCOs and Wisky is clean as a whistle. That's the Urinal Sentinel theory.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on August 04, 2012, 11:36:38 AM
Guys don't get beat nearly to death without a reason.
The moment this story hit the wires, you knew there was crap behind it.
No football player at Wisconsin, especially the star running back, is going to be attacked in an unprovoked and random assault. The deification on campus, and the state as a whole, would make that nearly impossible.
The strange thing is this is all in the wake of the Penn St. announcement. I know the acts are not nearly as horrific, but the attempt of the athletic department and police departments to try to cover up the first fight and lie about it to the media is equally as bad.
I would think that Emmert would be in the right to throw down a punishment (minor) but a punishment nonetheless.
Quote from: forgetful on August 05, 2012, 07:31:41 PM
The strange thing is this is all in the wake of the Penn St. announcement. I know the acts are not nearly as horrific, but the attempt of the athletic department and police departments to try to cover up the first fight and lie about it to the media is equally as bad.
I would think that Emmert would be in the right to throw down a punishment (minor) but a punishment nonetheless.
Where is the cover up? The guy that supposedly got beat up by Ball did not file a police report. Ball also stated he did not know why he was attacked.
Quote from: bilsu on August 05, 2012, 07:48:19 PM
Where is the cover up? The guy that supposedly got beat up by Ball did not file a police report. Ball also stated he did not know why he was attacked.
Madison Police, Bielemma and Ball said there was no fight and if there was that he wasn't there, this was after the TMZ report. The police continued to run with the 'random attack" idea even after TMZ reported their was a previous fight.
TMZ reported that the guy injured in the previous attack had been contacted by police. It was after this that the police were finally 'required' to come out and say that their was indeed a fight that they were investigating.
Bielemma, Ball and the Police knew about the incident but lied about it, only after TMZ later reported that the guy injured in the previous fight had talked to police did everyone come clean on the issue. I call that a cover up.
Quote from: forgetful on August 05, 2012, 07:53:09 PM
Madison Police, Bielemma and Ball said there was no fight and if there was that he wasn't there, this was after the TMZ report. The police continued to run with the 'random attack" idea even after TMZ reported their was a previous fight.
TMZ reported that the guy injured in the previous attack had been contacted by police. It was after this that the police were finally 'required' to come out and say that their was indeed a fight that they were investigating.
Bielemma, Ball and the Police knew about the incident but lied about it, only after TMZ later reported that the guy injured in the previous fight had talked to police did everyone come clean on the issue. I call that a cover up.
Don't forget that Mad PD's first response to the TMZ report was to call the TMZ report false.
Quote from: GOO on August 05, 2012, 08:53:18 AM
So, the Madison media and cops hide an incident involving UW Athletics and the only reason it comes to light is TMZ? Pathetic. TMZ is the most reliable and only source for info on this?
It's really not that surprising. Remember, the National Enquirer broke legitimate stories like Gary Hart, John Edwards, Rush Limbaugh's painkiller addiction, and Michael Jackson's health problems. The thing with those types of "newspapers" is that they aren't afraid to get their hands dirty while digging, and they'll throw their stories up as soon as they have something to run. Sometimes it backfires, but sometimes they get it right.
Quote from: forgetful on August 05, 2012, 07:53:09 PM
Madison Police, Bielemma and Ball said there was no fight and if there was that he wasn't there, this was after the TMZ report. The police continued to run with the 'random attack" idea even after TMZ reported their was a previous fight.
TMZ reported that the guy injured in the previous attack had been contacted by police. It was after this that the police were finally 'required' to come out and say that their was indeed a fight that they were investigating.
Bielemma, Ball and the Police knew about the incident but lied about it, only after TMZ later reported that the guy injured in the previous fight had talked to police did everyone come clean on the issue. I call that a cover up.
Ball said HE was not involved in a fight. A story that appears to be true. He did not say there was NO fight. As for the Madison Police, don't ya think that just maybe they did not want this story out yet? During the investigation? That is not uncommon in an investigation.
As for Bielema, I am not aware of any comments he made regarding "the fight". How did he lie or cover anything up?
As with the MU situation, the enemy camps always jump to the worst conclussions. Let this one play out, just as many of us said the same when it came to the MU reports.
Back to the OP comments, I do find it sad that many "reporters" jumped on the MU story with venom and vigor. Yet, no gnashing of the teeth on this one. I would have thougth the big tunic would have been all over this one with his rumor mongers assisting. To be fair, maybe he has but none of his 3 listeners are on this board.
Since I pretty much stopped listening to 1250 since the whole MU thing went down (and Josh Vernier left), have they been spending any time talking about this? Wonder if the Big Tool will discuss it today. Who knows if Homer will. But I'm sure if they do, his choadball co-host will make a bunch of DECLARATIVE STATEMENTS as Homer talks about this.
No 1250 just mentioned that Monty was beaten up and that he is most likely innocent.
I am waiting for Bill Michaels to say that Monte Ball hit the guy in the head with a bottle and put him in a coma like he did for DJO
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on August 06, 2012, 12:27:15 PM
No 1250 just mentioned that Monty was beaten up and that he is most likely innocent.
I am waiting for Bill Michaels to say that Monte Ball hit the guy in the head with a bottle and put him in a coma like he did for DJO
You'll be waiting for awhile. The Big Eunuch and the JS/TMJ will never take on the UW football machine.
I should expect this by now, but I can't get over how ridiculous the media is here. There was a witch hunt with the MU story. Some guy said DJO beat him up, and they led the 10 PM news with him. A guy claims Ball beat him, and only TMZ reports on it. The double standard is staggering.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on August 06, 2012, 12:18:46 PM
Since I pretty much stopped listening to 1250 since the whole MU thing went down (and Josh Vernier left), have they been spending any time talking about this? Wonder if the Big Tool will discuss it today. Who knows if Homer will. But I'm sure if they do, his choadball co-host will make a bunch of DECLARATIVE STATEMENTS as Homer talks about this.
As much as we like to believe that the 'SSP guys are strictly anti-Marquette, they're really all-purpose trolls. I heard a part of a segment last week when Wickett and Freimund were taking calls about what *really* happened to Montee, and it was as half-cocked as anything they said about Apt. 720. Hell, somebody even suggested that Montee might have been borrowing money from "some unsavory characters" and got jumped because he hadn't been making his payments.
I'm waiting patiently for Jeff Potrykus to get on the case, I remember this email conversation he had with hoops12.
Quote
* I'm not sure why you're telling me about how long it normally takes to get MU stories into the paper.
I was told about the transfer via a phone call. An editor forwarded the release to me. I made several calls. I wrote the story. That is what I do all the time.
Are you suggesting I should have held off on writing the story for a day or two? To balance some imaginary scales? I'm not sure I understand the logic at work here. (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=33033.msg402159#msg402159)
We'll get the REAL story very soon, all Jeff needs to do is "make a call" and jump to a bunch of conclusions.
Quote from: lurch91 on August 06, 2012, 01:21:10 PM
I'm waiting patiently for Jeff Potrykus to get on the case, I remember this email conversation he had with hoops12.
We'll get the REAL story very soon, all Jeff needs to do is "make a call" and jump to a bunch of conclusions.
Just head over to the Badger boards and ask him.
1250 Program Meeting:
"Ok, I'll take 1 side of this issue and say something mildly controversial. You take the other side and say something out of left field, and then we'll take calls for the rest of the hour."
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
This format sort of works if the 2 hosts are well versed and educated on the topic, but when you try to cover every topic in sports, and you aren't too bright, you end up sounding like 1250.
It's like asking Joe 6-pack for his opinion on sports. It's going to be biased, uneducated, and often wrong.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on August 06, 2012, 01:40:34 PM
This format sort of works if the 2 hosts are well versed and educated on the topic, but when you try to cover every topic in sports, and you aren't too bright, you end up sounding like 1250.
It's like asking Joe 6-pack for his opinion on sports. It's going to be biased, uneducated, and often wrong.
Right. That's what made it laughable when the Apt 720, "I heard DJO stabbed a guy with a trident" stuff was going on: Michaels was trying to portray himself as a journalist, claiming he had to hold back on the details of what he'd been told because he was trying to get confirmation, etc, when it was clear that the station's legal department grabbed him by the collar said: "If you slander this kid based on what the ****ing bar owner told you happened, you can start looking for a new job and your own attorney, in that order."
Quote from: PTM on August 04, 2012, 11:59:46 AM
Having a bunch of athletes attack an individual for you over a girl? That's classless.
I'm glad the individual got his retribution against Ball and hopefully drags UW through a mud a bit.
you must have anger issues. as much as we know, no one deserves to get beaten like ball did. save the hate for their basketball team as needed. their football program brings this state a lot of positive pub. you need some couch-time
Quote from: MUfan12 on August 06, 2012, 12:32:40 PM
The Big Eunuch
I can now die a happy man. Thank you for this.
Quote from: wyzgy on August 06, 2012, 02:51:48 PM
you must have anger issues. as much as we know, no one deserves to get beaten like ball did. save the hate for their basketball team as needed. their football program brings this state a lot of positive pub. you need some couch-time
And that is?
UW-Madison always seems to be more entitled then they actually deserve credit. If going to the Rose Bowl and losing the past two years, and never wining a national championship = success, well to each their own then.
Wasn't there something within the last year about a UW-Madison coach who was a pedophile and preyed on innocent kids?? Not sure that's positive Pub.
Quote from: JDuquaine on August 06, 2012, 03:03:01 PM
And that is?
UW-Madison always seems to be more entitled then they actually deserve credit. If going to the Rose Bowl and losing the past two years, and never wining a national championship = success, well to each their own then.
Wasn't there something within the last year about a UW-Madison coach who was a pedophile and preyed on innocent kids?? Not sure that's positive Pub.
In their defense, I'm pretty sure he wasn't a coach, just someone on staff, and I'm pretty sure everyone was over the age of 18. Sexual predator, yes. Pedophile coach, not quite.
UW football most certainly does bring a lot of publicity to the University and to the state. And it isn't just about championships. Since the BCS started, UW has been to four BCS bowls. Only 8 schools have been to more. (4 others have been to the same number.)
So in the last 15 years, it could legitimately be argued that UW has one of the top 13 programs in college football. And they are the only one of those 13 that is the only D1 football program in their state.
You really can't say that about Marquette basketball during that time frame can you?
And Chadima was never accused of pedophilia.
You sound completely unreasonable...
Quote from: MUMac on August 06, 2012, 08:00:36 AM
Ball said HE was not involved in a fight. A story that appears to be true. He did not say there was NO fight. As for the Madison Police, don't ya think that just maybe they did not want this story out yet? During the investigation? That is not uncommon in an investigation.
When a news organization uncovers an investigation that you've been attempting to keep secret, what's the most appropriate (paraphrased) response:
1) "We're looking into whether an investigation has been launched."
2) "We cannot comment on open investigations."
3) "I cannot speak to whether anyone is being questioned with respect to any incidents the night of Jul 27."
4) "That news organization is full of $#!*"
IMO - Anything but #4 would be an appropriate response so as to acknowledge that your earlier report may not have been entirely true but also to not have to drag your nuts through the wringer twice. Unfortunately, Madison PD chose #4.
Although I don't find any of this surprising... they've got to be one of very few major police departments in the country who actively and preferentially recruit college graduates with degrees in anything but the criminal justice field. It may not necessarily be the wrong approach, but it certainly is ass-backwards.
So you're just going off the last 15 years of the program and not their whole body of work? I guess you can do that...
But if you want to compare MU football to Madison, it's quite easy, Championships, MU=0 UW-M=0
That's the number that matters to me, but if you base your season on getting embarrassed by TCU, and really not having a chance against Oregon, well than sure, they're successful.
I will never cheer for the badgers in any aspect, shape or form. Getting to the Rose Bowl is one thing, winning is another. Last year was probably there only chance of smelling a national championship and what do you know, they couldn't get there, so people try to settle on getting to the Rose Bowl...
So what word would you describe Chadima? Sick, deranged, disgusting,....anything but a pedophile....
Quote from: JDuquaine on August 06, 2012, 04:24:29 PM
So you're just going off the last 15 years of the program and not their whole body of work? I guess you can do that...
But if you want to compare MU football to Madison, it's quite easy, Championships, MU=0 UW-M=0
That's the number that matters to me, but if you base your season on getting embarrassed by TCU, and really not having a chance against Oregon, well than sure, they're successful.
I will never cheer for the badgers in any aspect, shape or form. Getting to the Rose Bowl is one thing, winning is another. Last year was probably there only chance of smelling a national championship and what do you know, they couldn't get there, so people try to settle on getting to the Rose Bowl...
So what word would you describe Chadima? Sick, deranged, disgusting,....anything but a pedophile....
TCU didn't "embarrass" UW...and having the ball late in the fourth quarter while down by less than a score is "not having a chance?"
I don't care if you won't cheer for the Badgers, but your bias is taking all of the logic out of your argument. UW football is by far the highest profile collegiate athletic event that occurs in Wisconsin. And second isn't really all that close.
And one more thing...
It really disturbs me that people on this board are using this as an opportunity to be gleeful with regards to UW athletics. A guy was beaten on the streets. A felonious act.
Very sad commentary about what fandom can do to people.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 06, 2012, 04:28:22 PM
TCU didn't "embarrass" UW...and having the ball late in the fourth quarter while down by less than a score is "not having a chance?"
I don't care if you won't cheer for the Badgers, but your bias is taking all of the logic out of your argument. UW football is by far the highest profile collegiate athletic event that occurs in Wisconsin. And second isn't really all that close.
If Madison football is this powerhouse people claim it to be, they shouldn't have lost to TCU. And the Oregon game was due to horrible clock management and stupidity.
You're really not going out on a limb by saying Madison is the highest profile collegiate event in Wisconsin, not sure i see your point. I would hope it is, as football is Americas most popular sport. I don't think my arguments are invalid because I'm not a fan, the Badgers show countless times they can never finish when it comes to bowl games. I think Brent is a complete douche as well, complaining how Meyer steals his recruits, etc. He was handed keys to a program he didn't deserve in my opinion.
Also, you could argue UW-Whitewater has had more success then Madison...
Brent*
Quote from: JDuquaine on August 06, 2012, 04:43:49 PM
If Madison football is this powerhouse people claim it to be, they shouldn't have lost to TCU. And the Oregon game was due to horrible clock management and stupidity.
You're really not going out on a limb by saying Madison is the highest profile collegiate event in Wisconsin, not sure i see your point. I would hope it is, as football is Americas most popular sport. I don't think my arguments are invalid because I'm not a fan, the Badgers show countless times they can never finish when it comes to bowl games. I think Brent is a complete douche as well, complaining how Meyer steals his recruits, etc. He was handed keys to a program he didn't deserve in my opinion.
Also, you could argue UW-Whitewater has had more success then Madison...
1. Their history of "never finishing" bowl games is really recent. They have lost 4 out of 5, but prior to that they won 10 of 12.
2. I completely agree with you regarding Bielema.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 06, 2012, 04:28:22 PM
TCU didn't "embarrass" UW...and having the ball late in the fourth quarter while down by less than a score is "not having a chance?"
I don't care if you won't cheer for the Badgers, but your bias is taking all of the logic out of your argument. UW football is by far the highest profile collegiate athletic event that occurs in Wisconsin. And second isn't really all that close.
They didn't get "embarrassed" on the scoreboard, but the loss was certainly embarrassing and Brett Bielema and his staff surely embarrassed themselves. They continually call outside runs when the only thing TCU had on UW was speed. The outside runs continually got stuffed at the line. When he FINALLY runs it up the middle late in the fourth quarter down by 8 points they got nothing less than a first down every single time. And then what does he do when he needs just 2 yards to tie the game? Right after his running backs average about 13 yards per carry on the last drive? With an O Line that's smallest guy is about 75 pounds bigger and 6" taller than the biggest TCU lineman? He THROWS?! WHAT?!
And then on defense all TCU did was run quick slants and how does UW's defense respond? By continuing to play their corners 12 yards off of the line of scrimmage? Hmm. Andy Dalton should be sending that staff Christmas cards every year for increasing his draft stock exponentially. TCU had nowhere near the talent or size that UW had. UW should've won that game by 14+, and would have if they ran the ball up the middle before the last drive.
As far as the Oregon game is concerned, they had a chance sure, but the amount of time it took for Oregon to respond to a UW score was comical. Unless UW scored to take the lead inside 25 seconds left in the game, Oregon was going to score if they had to to win the game. And as was stated, every single piece of the puzzle fell into place for UW to make a run to the National Chsmpionship game. They finally had a playmaking QB, every team that needed to lose would lose, they played in an incredibly weak/overrated Big Ten. And they choked on a fatty. Is losing in the Rose Bowl embarrassing? No. But there's no reason they weren't playing for something bigger.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 06, 2012, 04:31:58 PM
And one more thing...
It really disturbs me that people on this board are using this as an opportunity to be gleeful with regards to UW athletics. A guy was beaten on the streets. A felonious act.
Very sad commentary about what fandom can do to people.
One man's glee is another man's poetic justice.
Quote from: Benny B on August 06, 2012, 09:11:29 PM
One man's glee is another man's poetic justice.
Well said.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 06, 2012, 04:31:58 PM
And one more thing...
It really disturbs me that people on this board are using this as an opportunity to be gleeful with regards to UW athletics. A guy was beaten on the streets. A felonious act.
Very sad commentary about what fandom can do to people.
You really do like to ride your high horse sometimes don't you. For one, I haven't seen anyone being gleeful about anything, just trying to provide commentary about a serious situation and make sure that all sides of the story get out instead of burying half of it.
Maybe you should remember that in addition to a guy getting beaten on the streets, another man was put in the hospital by a bunch of football players all because of a girl. Multiple witnesses say the Ball was there and was involved in the first fight.
I was wrong that Bielema commented on the situation, which is a good thing. They need to stay out of this as much as possible.
Quote from: forgetful on August 06, 2012, 10:34:27 PM
You really do like to ride your high horse sometimes don't you. For one, I haven't seen anyone being gleeful about anything, just trying to provide commentary about a serious situation and make sure that all sides of the story get out instead of burying half of it.
Maybe you should remember that in addition to a guy getting beaten on the streets, another man was put in the hospital by a bunch of football players all because of a girl. Multiple witnesses say the Ball was there and was involved in the first fight.
No one is disputing any of this. And, despite some suggestions otherwise, no one is hiding anything or lying....especially the Madison Police Department.
The collective Scoop gets all indignant when the UW message boards comment without knowing anything about fights in bars, sexual assault allegations and transfers....but that doesn't stop us from doing the same when the shoe is on the other foot.
And if you get tired of me getting on my high horse, you can always place me on ignore.
Sultan, there has been a little, but not much, speculating beyond what has actually been reported in media outlets. And there has been even fewer blanket accusations of calling all the football players thugs, calling their coach a cheater or a hypocrite, or insinuating the entire program is dirty. These are hallmarks of the typical buckyworld reactions to events at MU. Remember what happened when some of our guys got cited for not drinking in a bar? C'mon. Sorry, but this board has actually been a model of restraint and taking the high road in comparison to the vitriol that comes from the other direction.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 07, 2012, 07:37:40 AM
No one is disputing any of this. And, despite some suggestions otherwise, no one is hiding anything or lying....especially the Madison Police Department.
The TMZ reports continue to say Ball was one of the players who beat up the other victim, while Ball and the Journal Sentinel continue to say he wasn't involved.
http://www.tmz.com/person/montee-ball/
Quote from: Litehouse on August 07, 2012, 08:04:07 AM
The TMZ reports continue to say Ball was one of the players who beat up the other victim, while Ball and the Journal Sentinel continue to say he wasn't involved.
http://www.tmz.com/person/montee-ball/
Well, that simply means that either Ball or the victim are lying....and that's about it.
God I'm a sucker...
On way into work, I turned on 1250 this a.m. at 7 and wow...wouldn't you know it. They led off by talking about the Badgers. It lasted 10 minutes and they didn't take calls on it. They seemed to dismiss the report because it was TMZ, as if that somehow discredits the report. And then they did what any media station today does...they went looking for a way to "balance" the story.
This is done regarding politics all the time. If you report one thing about the GOP being full of it, then news organizations today now feel obligated to spew something about the Dems being full of it (or vice versa) just in the sake of "balance".
So...1250 then goes on to compare UW with the apt 720 stuff and the stairwell events that happened at MU and how the school was tight lipped on things. THAT's what kills me.
In the grand scheme of things, all this Ball incident does is show that both MU AND UW have had issues. Hell, just about every school does in some way. It really does nobody good saying who is better/worse than who. The part of me (and most everyone on this board) is that we are human and can't stand seeing UW get treated w/kid-gloves locally, while MU gets slammed.
1250 went on and on about how MU has thugs on its team and this was all based on the Big Eunich's Zapruder-film, rumor and innuendo. While here, we have a news source legitimately call out the local police force and everyone still gives good ol' UW the benefit of the doubt.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on August 07, 2012, 08:31:32 AM
God I'm a sucker...
On way into work, I turned on 1250 this a.m. at 7 and wow...wouldn't you know it. They led off by talking about the Badgers. It lasted 10 minutes and they didn't take calls on it. They seemed to dismiss the report because it was TMZ, as if that somehow discredits the report. And then they did what any media station today does...they went looking for a way to "balance" the story.
This is done regarding politics all the time. If you report one thing about the GOP being full of it, then news organizations today now feel obligated to spew something about the Dems being full of it (or vice versa) just in the sake of "balance".
So...1250 then goes on to compare UW with the apt 720 stuff and the stairwell events that happened at MU and how the school was tight lipped on things. THAT's what kills me.
In the grand scheme of things, all this Ball incident does is show that both MU AND UW have had issues. Hell, just about every school does in some way. It really does nobody good saying who is better/worse than who. The part of me (and most everyone on this board) is that we are human and can't stand seeing UW get treated w/kid-gloves locally, while MU gets slammed.
1250 went on and on about how MU has thugs on its team and this was all based on the Big Eunich's Zapruder-film, rumor and innuendo. While here, we have a news source legitimately call out the local police force and everyone still gives good ol' UW the benefit of the doubt.
Hmm. I heard the same segment, and aside from the unnecessary reference to the Apt 720 situation -- by the way, Wickett: if you're so bothered by the fact that that story "disappeared into thin air," you can do something about it; you've got a microphone and four hours of air time every day -- and I didn't get the "we need to balance this story" vibe from it at all. Wickett said that he thought the "unprovoked assault" story sounded fishy when he heard it last week, and that nothing that's happened in the last few days has changed his mind about that.
Quote from: Rubie Q on August 07, 2012, 08:39:27 AM
Hmm. I heard the same segment, and aside from the unnecessary reference to the Apt 720 situation -- by the way, Wickett: if you're so bothered by the fact that that story "disappeared into thin air," you can do something about it; you've got a microphone and four hours of air time every day -- and I didn't get the "we need to balance this story" vibe from it at all. Wickett said that he thought the "unprovoked assault" story sounded fishy when he heard it last week, and that nothing that's happened in the last few days has changed his mind about that.
Cut him some slack. I believe English is a second language for Niv.
תודה על תמיכתכם.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on August 07, 2012, 10:20:18 AM
תודה על תמיכתכם.
Something is wrong with my browser. It converted Niv's post to Wingdings.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 07, 2012, 08:21:25 AM
Well, that simply means that either Ball or the victim are lying....and that's about it.
Evidently, there's a girl in the middle of this who - if the claim is true - could likely shed a pretty bright light on the issue. If they haven't already, it's probably in everyone's best interests that Mad PD gets to her before TMZ does.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on August 07, 2012, 10:20:18 AM
תודה על תמיכתכם.
You're welcome. You write/speak English better than I speak Spanish.
Its pretty obvious what happened. Ball and his buddies(or Ball's buddies on his behalf. Take your pick) Beat up the wrong kid. IE a gang member. Hardly shocking if you have witnessed enough of the football players behaviors when out in Madison before. Maybe it will be a good thing. Maybe the BMOC complex will slowly disapate for these guys. Or maybe it will get worse and more football players will get the living **** beat out of them.
Believe it or not TMZ is a pretty reputable news organization They have broke some of the biggest stories in the past 10 years.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on August 07, 2012, 02:49:57 PM
Believe it or not TMZ is a pretty reputable news organization They have broke some of the biggest stories in the past 10 years.
I don't care how dirty the pig gets in the mud... as long as the bacon hits my table clean and crispy.
Why does anyone care what's in the Milwaukee media?
We get more and better information on Scoop than we ever will from the JS! I don't care if it is Enlund, Nickel or anyone we like. We're more in tuned with the program here than the JS ever will be. Let's face it, the laziest profession around anymore is daily journalism in one newspaper cities.
As to the Badger tilt, why does anyone in here think it matters? Do you think for one moment a recruit choosing between MU and UW will make a final decision based on press coverage in the JS? Or on WTMJ TV or any of the crapola outlets masquerading as TV news? A potential recruit is more likely to identify with the coach, the style of play, the coverage on ESPN, NBCSports etc., the academics (OK, that may be a stretch), the quality of the co-eds or what Mamma has to say. Coverage in the local media is right down there with brand of shoelace in the sneakers.
So do what more and more subscribers to the JS are doing every year. Cancel it and pretend it does not exist. Your gain will be their loss -- and they're so arrogant they will never know the difference.
[So do what more and more subscribers to the JS are doing every year. Cancel it and pretend it does not exist. Your gain will be their loss -- and they're so arrogant they will never know the difference.
[/quote]
Actually, they know exactly why I cancelled my subscription (after about 30 years)..., but you're right about their arrogance. They not only don't care, they argued with me on the phone about my reasons for cancelling. They have become a compilation of reprinted wire service stories and opinions. Reporting/Journalism is dead in the Milwaukee press.
Quote from: JDuquaine on August 06, 2012, 04:43:49 PM
If Madison football is this powerhouse people claim it to be, they shouldn't have lost to TCU. And the Oregon game was due to horrible clock management and stupidity.
You're really not going out on a limb by saying Madison is the highest profile collegiate event in Wisconsin, not sure i see your point. I would hope it is, as football is Americas most popular sport. I don't think my arguments are invalid because I'm not a fan, the Badgers show countless times they can never finish when it comes to bowl games. I think Brent is a complete douche as well, complaining how Meyer steals his recruits, etc. He was handed keys to a program he didn't deserve in my opinion.
Also, you could argue UW-Whitewater has had more success then Madison...
if you aren't a fan, either you don't pay attention, or your standards are set so high your bi-ass is getting in the way. one can tell by your views that you have some inner hate goin on with bucky football. yes the story is not being reported like mu basketball, but life ain't fair. the truth will dribble out eventually and only those involved will have to answer to it. but waiting for the urinalists to throw a beat-down on wisco-ball, well, don't get all constipated over it. everyone knows most urinalists have their collective heads so far up madisons arse, they bump their heads on the uvula looking out. i am a warrior through and through, but enjoy madison pigskin as the last time i checked, our football team is still struggling. when you have 100+ pumped up meatheads on a squad, some dumb things are going to happen. for the most part, badgers football has been pretty damn competitive and in the thick of the bcs ratings. oh yeah, compare whitewater to the big 10? not taking anthing away from ww, they have been outstanding, but we're talking big boys pants here dude
Michael Hunt has a column up today on the Ball situation
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/badgers/attack-on-ball-an-issue-ac6de0h-165379896.html
QuoteAnytime a student gets attacked on campus, that's a problem. It sets off all kind of alarm bells for parents everywhere.
But when the leading returning vote-getter in the 2011 Heisman Trophy balloting is jumped by five guys, that sets off a different kind of warning altogether.
It's major news. Besides that, it makes you wonder what's going on with the football program.
Montee Ball hasn't been cleared for practice because he has a concussion after being roughed up last week. Ball will be back, and he will play like the tailback who rushed for 39 touchdowns last season and will, in all likelihood, carry the Badgers to another Big Ten Championship Game.
But for now, that is not the concern.
For now, I buy what UW coach Bret Bielema said about Ball's innocence in the matter. Ball has always struck me as a straight-up, do-the-right-thing kind of young man.
But one question is why he was walking the streets with friends last Wednesday at 2:15 a.m. No one is ever guilty by the kind of hours they keep, but it's like your grandma always told you:
Almost nothing that happens after midnight is good. It's best to not place yourself in trouble's path in the first place, no matter how innocent the intent. Madison, while still a fairly benign setting, isn't the idyllic place it used to be, especially after midnight.
And there are questions about Ball's teammates that still must be resolved.
As it has been reported, several UW players were involved in a fight the week before Ball was attacked. Not only are those players at risk of criminal charges, their behavior may have caused one of the country's best players to become a target for retaliation.
That's not exactly what the defending Big Ten champion needs here at the start of camp. It brings into question such critical intangibles as locker-room chemistry and the overall attitude of the team. Are these the kind of guys you want representing Wisconsin?
Based on all my time around the program, Barry Alvarez didn't recruit problem kids. Neither has Bielema. There have been isolated bad acts and notable incidents, including the Brent Moss arrest and assorted bar fights and low crimes and misdemeanors over the years.
But that happens everywhere, and usually at a higher percentage rate within the general student body. That is no excuse whenever it happens at Wisconsin, but it has always seemed that the Badgers have had fewer off-the-field problems than your typical Enormous U. football program.
It's true that Bielema ran a looser ship than he should have with his players when he became head coach at the age of 36, but the resulting problems usually came on the field. An immature coach was reflected in the play of an immature team that committed silly penalties.
Bielema has grown up - maybe not to everyone's satisfaction when it comes to UW's play in big games - and has learned to keep a tighter rein on the players. Not that they were out of control, even when Bielema was giving them more latitude than a parent might with their teenager. Except Bielema has a hundred or so to watch over, basically an impossible job.
Eventually, the Badgers cut way down on penalties as they retained their status as a top-shelf program. And, generally speaking, the players have been the type of kids you'd be proud to call your own - respectful, courteous and smart. They've always been among the Big Ten leader in manners while kicking serious behind on the field.
Bielema has not been perfect in his own behavior as a coach, but he's being completely honest when he says:
"In my seven years as a head coach, we have not had many situations pop up. I don't expect to go through my entire coaching career without some of these things popping up. I know that I recruit kids of high quality and high character. If there's a situation where a couple of guys are involved in it, I told every one of them, 'Hey, if you did something to ring the bell, you're going to have to pay the price.'"
Let's see if Bielema is true to his word once the police are finished with this matter, because it's got to stop here. Even if it was an isolated event, he's got more than another potentially great season riding on player decorum.
Wisconsin's good name is never to be messed with.
I can appreciate Hunt's tone of .....lets see what comes out of the investigation before we smear Ball, Bielema, and Wisconsin.
It's too bad they don't apply that approach consistently with student athletes from other programs.
If I lived in Milwaukee, I would not be a customer of the JS for that reason.
Fortunately, where I live, when I dropped my subscription to the Red Star, I had the option of the Pioneer Press, and a little "garage logic".
Interesting article by Hunt....all in all decent. I will say, however, that in what I recall reading about the MU player incidents, the article didn't attempt to paint them as isolated, or end the article with Marquette's good name is never to be messed with. A nicer spin on this article I'd say, than those written on MU's bar incident this past winter..
That was a good article, but this line made me roll my eyes:
"But one question is why he was walking the streets with friends last Wednesday at 2:15 a.m."
Uh...because he's a college-age kids and they are regularly out at that time???
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on August 08, 2012, 09:46:35 AM
That was a good article, but this line made me roll my eyes:
"But one question is why he was walking the streets with friends last Wednesday at 2:15 a.m."
Uh...because he's a college-age kids and they are regularly out at that time???
I believe people tend to exaggerate this a bit. My friends and I definately werent prudes. And we werent "regularly" out at 2:15. Especially during the week. As in all groups/sects of people you have a certain % who do certain things. If all 40,000 students at the UW were out at 2:!5 on a regular basis that would be quite a scene.
There has to be some credit given in that Hunt didn't wait until the second-to-last paragraph to set up the inference to be taken that there's more to this story than what's coming from Bielema, Ball, etc. and that there are a number of questions that must be answered.
As others noted, the only criticism I have about the article is the double-standard that is implied... UW athletes are written as though presumed innocent (and matters are isolated) whereas MU athletes are written as though presumed guilty (and matters are a trend). But again... the JS knows their audience, and in the name of profit they, like most businesses, would rather pander to the ignorance of the masses than dispense hurtful truths.
Why are MU fans so sensitive? The UW "rivalry" exists pretty much in one's own mind.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 08, 2012, 11:08:37 AM
Why are MU fans so sensitive? The UW "rivalry" exists pretty much in one's own mind.
Because in this day an age media perception is what reality becomes. If you take an unbiased look at a list of incidents by UW athletes and MU athletes over the last 10 years I would argue at worst the two programs are equal in depth, breath and frequency of issues. However, if you look at the perception of the two programs they are different, partly because the media portrays them differently.
I am certain that if a major media outlet like the JS pushed on this Ball story it would turn into a much bigger deal than it currently is perceived as with no changing of what is known. Call it the Apartment 720 effect.
At the end of the day, the sad reality is that newspapers like the JS are catering to an audience, and they need as large an audience as they can. So that means treating the college sports team with the largest fanbase in the state with kid gloves and also nailing the local university to the wall because they are disliked by same large fanbase and it'll generate eye balls.
Quote from: M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS on August 08, 2012, 10:01:35 AM
I believe people tend to exaggerate this a bit. My friends and I definately werent prudes. And we werent "regularly" out at 2:15. Especially during the week. As in all groups/sects of people you have a certain % who do certain things. If all 40,000 students at the UW were out at 2:!5 on a regular basis that would be quite a scene.
I shouldn't have said "regularly." I should have said "often." I really don't think it should be an indictment for a college kid to be out late. (And I have two of them that age.)
Quote from: mu03eng on August 08, 2012, 11:51:13 AM
At the end of the day, the sad reality is that newspapers like the JS are catering to an audience, and they need as large an audience as they can. So that means treating the college sports team with the largest fanbase in the state with kid gloves and also nailing the local university to the wall because they are disliked by same large fanbase and it'll generate eye balls.
Completely agree with you mu03eng; very eloquently stated as well. This is the biggest threat to the "objectivity" of the media landscape we live in today. People have options now. Whereas before you had to wait til your newspaper hit the front door to read the news (and only had one or two options), you now have an almost limitless source of news on the internet. In order to stay financially viable (barely at that), newspapers have to cater to their audience.
Think about it. Many posters, myself included, no longer rely on the JS for any MU news and rarely, if ever, read their stories. Yet I would hazard to guess we remain very well informed. The same could be said for most UW fans should they be in the same situation. The difference comes in the size. The JS can afford to alienate MU fans by skimping out on coverage because there simply aren't enough eyeballs to matter. Contrast that with those of UW fans, which we can safely assume is much much larger. I hate to quantify it because I have no idea what the real numbers are, but let's say there are 50,000 MU fans and 500,000 UW in the state. It doesn't take a math nerd to see who matters more.
The problem comes when it is time to report unfavorable news. When MU is in a shady situation, there are 500,000 fans who will gleefully enjoy a bit of schadenfreude at MU's expense. Hence day-to-day breaking news of Apartment 720, what normally would be a blurb at best. Turning the tables, the JS has no incentive to go digging into the Montee Ball situation because UW fans have no desire to read that. They risk alienating their base by kicking the hornet's nest.
It's not fair, it's just business for the Journal Sentinel.
Quote from: Benny B on August 07, 2012, 10:49:06 AM
Evidently, there's a girl in the middle of this who - if the claim is true - could likely shed a pretty bright light on the issue. If they haven't already, it's probably in everyone's best interests that Mad PD gets to her before TMZ does.
Of course there is. It took me about 2 seconds to come to what I'm sure is the accurate version of what happened. My immediate assumption was that he was hitting on some guy's girl, banging some guy's girl, or insulting some guy's girl, etc., fight ensues, doesn't end there, and he gets his ass kicked a couple days later. At no point did I ever believe this was just some random attack.
Do I care? No, these things happen. I can't say I have paid much attention to the media coverage, nor how it compared to the MU coverage. Just as with the above, I don't really have to. Been around long enough to know without having to witness it first hand.
In Hunt's defense - and I'm not a big fan of his - he did write an opinion piece of 720 if I recall that basically said if what's been reported as happening is what really happened...relax, it's college kids. What do you expect? They were in a bar and not drinking. But taking that along w/other stuff...it does paint MU in a bad light.
And as much as I hate to admit it, it does. Now, it's up to the individual to determine just HOW bad of a light it shines, or, should I say, how bad does it hurt MU's image. Every case is subjective. And that's the rub w/MU vs UW I think.
Here, you have a kid that got the shite kicked out of him, most likely due to an event that occurred previously...an event that included more people from your team...an event that the police and university appear to openly attempt to cover up. Yet, UW is getting the benefit of the doubt and people like Hunt opine "how dare anyone speak poortly or sully the mighty reputation of UW!!!" That's where the joke comes in and what upsets people like me.
First I'm not even remotely comparing the crimes, but this lack of "keeping them honest" kind of media reporting(one could even go as far as being complicit) is what leads to the environment that allows stuff like what happened at Baylor and Penn State to happen.
As an example, the media hammered Marquette on the sexual assault stuff, which whatever the true story was had the effect of appropriately rattling some cages at MU to make changes and make sure something like that doesn't happen. What if the media didn't shine a light on it, would that type of stuff still be going on?
The example of that is how two separate incidents at ND semi-slipped through the cracks(SMC girl's suicide and the kid dying on the scissors lift). While there was media attention, both happened, ND rode out the storm without an repercussions that I recall and now what is to stop them from doing the same with another incident or something worse?
As a news organization I think it is critical to investigate issues and report, if there is no problem found then so be it, but at least do the research. The JS in particular seems to not want to bother investigating in the first place.