MUScoop

Same question for Jae.

I said late second round, but I think right around the middle of round 2.  He's a PF stuck in a SG body frame.  Intangibles and motor are off the charts, so I think he has a chance to stick.  I think he's a better pro prospect than I thought Hayward was, and Hayward went in the first round, though I still do not understand why.

Quote from: CTWarrior on June 22, 2012, 11:57:57 AM
I said late second round, but I think right around the middle of round 2.  He's a PF stuck in a SG body frame.  Intangibles and motor are off the charts, so I think he has a chance to stick.  I think he's a better pro prospect than I thought Hayward was, and Hayward went in the first round, though I still do not understand why.

Lazar owes Wes a Christmas card every year for that one.  I think Jae goes in the early second.

Quote from: awilhelmscream on June 22, 2012, 11:59:39 AM
Lazar owes Wes a Christmas card every year for that one.  I think Jae goes in the early second.

Still surprised Jerel never got his shot after what he did in the D-League.

tweeeeeener.  Undrafted, but lands somewhere and sticks around.

Late 2nd round.  His intangibles will get hgim drafted.

I said late second, but undrafted wouldn't surprise me. The relative success of Wes and JFB (decent bench contributor) likely help his odds, but while Jae's an immensely hard worker, I'm not sold that NBA types will see that as enough. He'll likely get a shot, but may need to work his way up through the D-League.

Late 2nd. Much like DJO, he'll go later than he probably should because of "projects" and Euros. Could be a steal for the Spurs at 59 - they know how to use talent.

Where is the option for signs with an NFL team as a strong safety/Linebacker?

Quote from: Ari Gold on June 22, 2012, 04:47:26 PM
Where is the option for signs with an NFL team as a strong safety/Linebacker?

More likely a Tight End.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 22, 2012, 04:58:46 PM
More likely a Tight End.

+1

If Jae doesn't catch on with a NBA team, this option wouldn't surprise me at all.

Cleveland at No. 33.

Quote from: strotty on June 22, 2012, 10:03:29 PM
Cleveland at No. 33.

You have picked the most likely spot, but do they look at teams who might pick him a few spots ahead of them and grab him with the earlier pick.  I go first round, BUT it's all whose left at every pick. There are teams who believe they'd take him first round, but if their number 15 guy has slipped to their chance to pick a 25, then he slips, etc

Late second to undrafted.

And for the record, I don't see Jae even considering the NFL for one second, even if the NBA doesn't work out right away.

Quote from: strotty on June 23, 2012, 01:15:04 AM
And for the record, I don't see Jae even considering the NFL for one second, even if the NBA doesn't work out right away.

What's the 225 bench rep equivalent of 17-20 at 185?  He would have to be a receiving TE only. If memory serves he played QB,  so it's a total question mark if he has the hands to be a specialty receiving TE.....let alone the top end speed you typically see from those guys.  No way a NFL team gives him any thought.

As for the NBA,  I like his chances.  Could he sneak into the very end of the first like Lazar and Jimmy?  Or will he go undrafted?  That's his range IMO...and it's a BIG range.  All it takes is one team to fall in love.  Being BEPOY doesn't hurt the PR department either.

Did you guys miss the announcement from the Commissioner's office last week?  David Stern recently added the "Marquette Clause" to all future NBA Drafts. 

The Marquette Class mandates all teams drafting last in the First Round, by law, have to draft a Marquette player with the 30th pick.

Now the better question is: Who goes at the 30th pick?  DJO or Jae?

Quote from: TheBuzzsaw on June 23, 2012, 03:48:54 AM
What's the 225 bench rep equivalent of 17-20 at 185?  He would have to be a receiving TE only. If memory serves he played QB,  so it's a total question mark if he has the hands to be a specialty receiving TE.....let alone the top end speed you typically see from those guys.  No way a NFL team gives him any thought.

Crowder's been focused on being/staying in basketball shape. He could pretty easily add strength if needed. Jae to the NFL is definitely a long shot, but I don't think it's impossible.

What about todd being taken at 30?

Jae is a "Moneyball" kind of player - his player efficiency rating last season was among the best in college basketball in the last 7 years.  My feeling is his efficiency, effectiveness, character, and intangibles get him drafted in late first round/early second.  Jae just makes a team better/winning plays.

Quote from: TheBuzzsaw on June 23, 2012, 03:48:54 AM
What's the 225 bench rep equivalent of 17-20 at 185?

Depends on the guy. Could be 10, 5, or even 0. Depends on what they max at. A guy with good endurance might max out at 200 but be able to put up 15 reps at 185. A 40-pound jump in bench press is immense. Of course, it's also a fairly useless real-life number. Other than offensive linemen in the NFL, who ever makes that motion with force in their day-to-day life? Any NBA player using legitimate bench press force would be whistled for a technical under almost any circumstance.

Quote from: brewcity77 on June 23, 2012, 10:43:07 AM
Depends on the guy. Could be 10, 5, or even 0. Depends on what they max at. A guy with good endurance might max out at 200 but be able to put up 15 reps at 185. A 40-pound jump in bench press is immense. Of course, it's also a fairly useless real-life number. Other than offensive linemen in the NFL, who ever makes that motion with force in their day-to-day life? Any NBA player using legitimate bench press force would be whistled for a technical under almost any circumstance.

Well I agree about the "strength" test not being an accurate measure of playing strength,  but the question was posed as rhetorical.  Jae is a basketball player.  If he doesn't make the NBA,  he is going to make his living overseas like his pops...

Quote from: brewcity77 on June 23, 2012, 10:43:07 AM
Depends on the guy. Could be 10, 5, or even 0. Depends on what they max at. A guy with good endurance might max out at 200 but be able to put up 15 reps at 185. A 40-pound jump in bench press is immense. Of course, it's also a fairly useless real-life number. Other than offensive linemen in the NFL, who ever makes that motion with force in their day-to-day life? Any NBA player using legitimate bench press force would be whistled for a technical under almost any circumstance.

The bench press is used as a subjective measure of strength, because to be good at it you have to have a well balanced muscle build.  One of the biggest limitations in being able to bench a lot is to be able to balance the weight properly.  These core muscles are exactly what is used to power yourself through the lane and create space.  The more strength capacity you have the less likely you are going to be fatigued when you have a guy leaning on you in the post for 40 minutes. 

When they are guarding a guy in the post, believe me they are using every bit of that legitimate bench press force (squat force also).

Quote from: forgetful on June 23, 2012, 11:46:29 AMWhen they are guarding a guy in the post, believe me they are using every bit of that legitimate bench press force (squat force also).

Maybe just personal preference, but I'm not at all a fan of most classic freeweight exercises. They simply aren't purposeful. They make you look big and strong, but most of them have minimal physical translation, and what they do give is just a byproduct. You gain a lot more with crosstraining (CrossFit specifically) that focuses on using natural and practical motions to build strength and endurance. It might not result in as chiseled a physique, but in terms of practical strength, I've found well-conditioned CrossFit athletes outperform guys that just throw around freeweights every single time.

I'm not saying weight training is useless, but most of the motions develop more glamor muscles than anything else. Using a bench press to determine how a guy is going to perform in the post is a stretch, at best. A stand-up sled push, for example, would be a far better measure of practical strength in the post.

Quote from: brewcity77 on June 23, 2012, 12:07:54 PM

I'm not saying weight training is useless, but most of the motions develop more glamor muscles than anything else. Using a bench press to determine how a guy is going to perform in the post is a stretch, at best. A stand-up sled push, for example, would be a far better measure of practical strength in the post.

I think breaking boards with your forearm and a standing squat with weights would be better measures in the post.

late first round sleeper or pga a ;D  the next calvin peete

rumor mill:  Cavs interested in Jae in the 2nd round

Would put him towards the top of the 2nd round if picked there.

Ouch - on NBA network both Seth Davis and chris dortch both listed crowder as one of the 5 fastest dropping in the draft.  It wasn't clear if they meant since the season ended (which would include height measurement in jersey) or more recent.

Seth started the show by saying sg was the strongest position and citing djo as one of several who will have an impact in the NBA.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 27, 2012, 07:15:36 PM
rumor mill:  Cavs interested in Jae in the 2nd round

Would put him towards the top of the 2nd round if picked there.

You da man hards!

Quote from: strotty on June 22, 2012, 10:03:29 PM
Cleveland at No. 33.

I was close. And apparently conceited for quoting myself.  :)

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 22, 2012, 04:58:46 PM
More likely a Tight End.

where do some get this nfl thing about jae from??  just b/c he's strong like bull, but did he play some pigskin in high school?  i could see djo at defensive back before jae in nfl.  we had a big white boy back in the early 80's by the name of tom copa who everyone was putting in the nfl and last time i checked, i don't think he even got to hand out towels

Quote from: wyzgy on June 30, 2012, 04:45:27 PMwhere do some get this nfl thing about jae from??

As I recall, Murray State coach Steve Prohm saw Jae and DJO and said "shouldn't those guys be at Spring Practice somewhere?" I also believe Buzz mentioned that there were NFL inquiries, but either they weren't too serious or it didn't go far. Don't have the time to research it now, but I'm pretty sure there was a basis to it.

Quote from: brewcity77 on June 30, 2012, 05:04:06 PM
As I recall, Murray State coach Steve Prohm saw Jae and DJO and said "shouldn't those guys be at Spring Practice somewhere?" I also believe Buzz mentioned that there were NFL inquiries, but either they weren't too serious or it didn't go far. Don't have the time to research it now, but I'm pretty sure there was a basis to it.

Jae played quarterback in high school.

how would you like to be a wide receiver or running back taking a hit from a 6'4" or 6'7" missile out of the def. backfield??  counting my teeth pulling them out of this mornings breakfast?  ouch!!

A couple of NFL scouts inquired about Jae as a tightend, but Jae had ZERO interest.

Copa was a legit football prospect, and in the end was choosing between being a tight end at Nebraska or center at Marquette.  Do remember that while some fans were disappointed Copa was not the next Jerome Whitehead, he did go onto dominate in Europe for a few years and then come back and make the NBA.

On Jae, the only question was whether OKC would take Jae in the first round or he would be grabbed up early in the second round by any one of several teams.  When Perry Jones was still available when OKC came up that settled it.

nbadraft.net and some like Ford whose mock drafts seemed to follow them were about the only people who thought Jae might not be drafted.  Someone with a team was probably telling draftnet he wouldn't go either as a way to feed misinformation - which is in a team's best interest when they are looking at a player and don't want other teams to take him first, or because they were talking to a team that focused more on height.

However, I am thrilled DJO made it, and hope his high wire act makes him stick in the big market.

Quote from: bamamarquettefan on July 01, 2012, 09:29:42 PM
A couple of NFL scouts inquired about Jae as a tightend, but Jae had ZERO interest.

Copa was a legit football prospect, and in the end was choosing between being a tight end at Nebraska or center at Marquette.  Do remember that while some fans were disappointed Copa was not the next Jerome Whitehead, he did go onto dominate in Europe for a few years and then come back and make the NBA.

On Jae, the only question was whether OKC would take Jae in the first round or he would be grabbed up early in the second round by any one of several teams.  When Perry Jones was still available when OKC came up that settled it.

nbadraft.net and some like Ford whose mock drafts seemed to follow them were about the only people who thought Jae might not be drafted.  Someone with a team was probably telling draftnet he wouldn't go either as a way to feed misinformation - which is in a team's best interest when they are looking at a player and don't want other teams to take him first, or because they were talking to a team that focused more on height.

However, I am thrilled DJO made it, and hope his high wire act makes him stick in the big market.

Thank you for yours always keen and accurate insights. It is indeed refreshing to see facts and/or supporting statistics -- as opposed to the baseless conjecture offered by those "nattering nabbobs of negativism."  :)

Reading Bama's recap of Copa's career got me thinking about Dean Marquardt.  Didn't he have a similar pro career.....lots of good years in Europe, then a cup of coffee in the NBA?  No pro details on Dean in the wiki.

Dave Stevoff, can you help us on this? And Dave, do you still have the strength of 1000 Yugoslavian sailors? ;D