Interesting speech for a High School Graduation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lfxYhtf8o4
The only thing interesting about the speech is how society can't accept this truth without candy-coating it in humor.
I see it all the time.... some hot-shot, smarty-pants, Summa Cum Laude from Nebraska moves to Chicago and realizes he/she isn't the smartest person in the room anymore - not by a long shot - and struggles to accept the reality where B- and C-students with a chip on their shoulder are running circles around them in the real world.
There's nothing with telling a child that he or she is special, so long as you caveat it with "but there's always going to be someone who's better than you, so you're just going to have to work twice as hard to beat them."
Come to think of it, this thread probably doesn't belong in the Superbar....
I thought it was an excellent speech. My generation of parents (those with kids graduating high school in the last 5-10 years or later) have done a miserable job raising their children. We are churning out entitled, spoiled little stinkers who have had their lives micro-managed and every little thing handled for them, rendering them incapable of dealing with failure. It is not their fault. Our generation for some strange reason has decided that our precious little angels are perfect and have to be protected from unfairness (perceived or otherwise) from those who don't completely comprehend their wonderfulness. Kids don't learn life lessons like getting bad grades means you have to work harder, or being cut or benched means you have to work harder, or wanting something means you need to work for it. They expect everything to be given to them and that's because basically everything is.
How is this for a theory? The fact that women work really screws things up. Once women started working, the work force looking for jobs probably grew by 1/3 or something. So there are less jobs to go around. Unfortunately, except for jobs requiring heavy physical labor (or math related stuff or anything requiring logic or reason) women are just as good as men and are willing to work for less (if they are married and only harassed by the attractive men), which in turn creates the current scarcity of jobs. Plus even the hard physical labor jobs they can get because they can sue and say it's discriminatory to have jobs they can't do. (We also have too many lawyers, but that's another discussion) So now kids are unsupervised or raised by caregivers who just want to make the kid happy, and parents with two incomes, who feel guilty about not spending enough time with them, buy them stuff to compensate because they have some money but not much time, which turns the kids into entitled little jerks who learn to expect something for nothing.
Not only that, but I sometimes have to wait over an hour after I get home for dinner or sometimes I have to take them out or get take out. What's up with that?
Why can't the dad stay at home? ^^^
Quote from: CTWarrior on June 11, 2012, 10:13:04 AM
I thought it was an excellent speech. My generation of parents (those with kids graduating high school in the last 5-10 years or later) have done a miserable job raising their children. We are churning out entitled, spoiled little stinkers who have had their lives micro-managed and every little thing handled for them, rendering them incapable of dealing with failure. It is not their fault. Our generation for some strange reason has decided that our precious little angels are perfect and have to be protected from unfairness (perceived or otherwise) from those who don't completely comprehend their wonderfulness. Kids don't learn life lessons like getting bad grades means you have to work harder, or being cut or benched means you have to work harder, or wanting something means you need to work for it. They expect everything to be given to them and that's because basically everything is.
How is this for a theory? The fact that women work really screws things up. Once women started working, the work force looking for jobs probably grew by 1/3 or something. So there are less jobs to go around. Unfortunately, except for jobs requiring heavy physical labor (or math related stuff or anything requiring logic or reason) women are just as good as men and are willing to work for less (if they are married and only harassed by the attractive men), which in turn creates the current scarcity of jobs. Plus even the hard physical labor jobs they can get because they can sue and say it's discriminatory to have jobs they can't do. (We also have too many lawyers, but that's another discussion) Plus now kids are unsupervised or raised by caregivers who just want to make the kid happy, and parents with two incomes who feel guilty about not spending enough time with them buy them stuff to compensate because they have some money but not much time, which turns the kids into entitled little jerks who learn to expect something for nothing.
Not only that, but I sometimes have to wait over an hour after I get home for dinner or sometimes I have to take them out or get take out. What's up with that?
Perfect mix of truths and humor. Well done, Warrior.
The best part of the speech was when he said that too many young people confuse accolades with accomplishment. As someone who has recently been interviewing recent grads for entry-level positions, I have to say, that couldn't be more true.
Not to threadcrap, but is this one of those things where every older generation says the same things about the younger generation?
WWII and Korea vets. probably hated the Vietnam Protesters and thought they were lazy.
Vietnam protesters probably thought kids in the 80's didn't know how to stand up for what they believed in because they were too busy playing Donkey Kong.
Parents in the early 90's hated "grunge" or "slackers" (remember the whole gen. x controversy?)
Etc. etc.
Certainly there is a grain of truth that the newest generation of youth might not be prepared for certain aspects of life, but I smell a common theme here.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 11, 2012, 12:19:31 PM
Not to threadcrap, but is this one of those things where every older generation says the same things about the younger generation?
WWII and Korea vets. probably hated the Vietnam Protesters and thought they were lazy.
Vietnam protesters probably thought kids in the 80's didn't know how to stand up for what they believed in because they were too busy playing Donkey Kong.
Parents in the early 90's hated "grunge" or "slackers" (remember the whole gen. x controversy?)
Etc. etc.
Certainly there is a grain of truth that the newest generation of youth might not be prepared for certain aspects of life, but I smell a common theme here.
You're probably right, but I really think my generation has done a great disservice to the next generation by being way too supportive, involved and controlling in their lives. Its OK if your kid gets screwed for no good reason once in a while. It will make him stronger and better prepared for life. You don't have to argue with teachers over every bad grade, or with coaches for not playing your kid, etc.
Quote from: CTWarrior on June 11, 2012, 12:43:37 PM
You're probably right, but I really think my generation has done a great disservice to the next generation by being way too supportive, involved and controlling in their lives. Its OK if your kid gets screwed for no good reason once in a while. It will make him stronger and better prepared for life. You don't have to argue with teachers over every bad grade, or with coaches for not playing your kid, etc.
Actually, this is a great point. I have several friends who are teachers who are fielding calls from parents several nights per week asking about grades or a situation at school.
My parents NEVER took my side, even if the teacher was wrong, the teacher was right, and I needed to learn that.
It seems like parents now automatically take their kids side and teachers are put on the defensive and have to cover their ass all of the time.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 11, 2012, 01:05:42 PM
Actually, this is a great point. I have several friends who are teachers who are fielding calls from parents several nights per week asking about grades or a situation at school.
My parents NEVER took my side, even if the teacher was wrong, the teacher was right, and I needed to learn that.
It seems like parents now automatically take their kids side and teachers are put on the defensive and have to cover their ass all of the time.
(http://us5.memecdn.com/Explain-These-Bad-Grades_c_113977.jpg)
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 11, 2012, 01:05:42 PM
Actually, this is a great point. I have several friends who are teachers who are fielding calls from parents several nights per week asking about grades or a situation at school.
My parents NEVER took my side, even if the teacher was wrong, the teacher was right, and I needed to learn that.
It seems like parents now automatically take their kids side and teachers are put on the defensive and have to cover their ass all of the time.
I couldn't agree with you and the other posters any more!
I was born in 88' so needless to say I'm apart of this generation, however my parents NEVER took my side. If my grades were slipping (which was easy to see via internet) they didn't call the teachers and scold them, they made me study more, didn't allow me to participate in sports if necessary, would make ME ask my teachers what could i do more to bring my grades up.
I've dated a few girls who do have kids, and it's extremely difficult for me to keep quiet at times because of all of the coddling I see. It's disgusting to me. Hopefully I can meet in the middle at some point though because i "push to hard, and have to be realistic with expectations since they're kids" Time will tell.
Well put though..
Let's not forget the role that higher education plays in all of this too... for the same reason we're witnessing conference realignment, we're also seeing a reduction of academic discipline. I'm sure it's not uncommon for universities to be loathe to dismiss someone for academic reasons when they have a zero balance on their tuition statement. It also reflects poorly - right or wrong - on a professor when students fail their class.
I had these discussions - or a derivative of them - with several MU faculty members during my two-year stint as a GA. I never got the impression that anyone was ever given a directive or an order from above, but for whatever reason, most of the professors that I was close to personally struggled to fail anyone at the end of a semester even if it was rightfully deserved.
Helicopter Parents + Everyone Gets A Trophy + a Focus on Money, not Education + Grade Inflation for the Sake of USN&WR Rankings = A bunch of today's thirty- and forty-somethings whose careers will likely never be threatened by someone younger than them.
Quote from: Benny B on June 11, 2012, 02:52:51 PM
Helicopter Parents + Everyone Gets A Trophy + a Focus on Money, not Education + Grade Inflation for the Sake of USN&WR Rankings = A bunch of today's thirty- and forty-somethings whose careers will likely never be threatened by someone younger than them.
Just for the sake of argument/discussion, it will be interesting to see what effect the "everybody gets a trophy" thing really has.
We all love to rip on that approach, as we feel it doesn't teach kids anything. However, the long term ramifications of such an approach may be nothing of note.
Also, if I had a choice of my kid playing in an "everybody gets a trophy league" vs a "Coach is an a**hole league", I'm taking the former. I think more damage is done by poor coaching/sportsmanship than by calling everybody a "winner" and giving out participation awards. Two ends of the spectrum I guess.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 11, 2012, 07:23:16 PM
Also, if I had a choice of my kid playing in an "everybody gets a trophy league" vs a "Coach is an a**hole league", I'm taking the former.
Trust me, they're not mutually exclusive (and I'm not saying that you said that they are).
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 11, 2012, 07:23:16 PM
Just for the sake of argument/discussion, it will be interesting to see what effect the "everybody gets a trophy" thing really has.
We all love to rip on that approach, as we feel it doesn't teach kids anything. However, the long term ramifications of such an approach may be nothing of note.
In all honesty, the "everybody gets a trophy" generation does learn life lessons - they just learn them later in life. I work in a large department for a large company and take part in quite a few interviews for entry-level positions. It's very common for HR to send me resumes of new grads who have applied for a mid-level position requiring 4-6 years of experience and paying ~$70k. When I call them to discuss an entry-level position (paying ~$40k), roughly 20% tell me that they're really not interested in that, often citing their 1-2 years/summers of internships and/or their GPA. There's a major disconnect there. IMO, it's not a matter of being unprepared to do a job or a matter of not wanting to put in the work required for some professions, it's a matter of maturity and of obliviousness. Age 22 is the new age 16, so to speak.
We've had new hires with great credentials who interviewed very well but once they got on the job, we found that they were very immature, personally and socially, despite being very bright and qualified. One guy couldn't get his direct deposit set up because he didn't have his own bank account. Another asked for 2 consecutive days off within his first month because he was going to a Brewers game on a weekday afternoon and then out to celebrate his friend's birthday afterwards (i.e. he needed the next day to recover). Not only is that a pretty ridiculous request but that's exactly how he requested it! Both of those guys have turned into very good employees (who hopefully don't read MUScoop) but it took a year or two before they really "got it." There have even been times where we've interviewed young, slightly underqualified candidates for internal promotions just to pass over them and let them face some rejection.
From my experiences, I feel like many new grads are very qualified for their chosen careers, but they're not qualified to live life as a working adult.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on June 12, 2012, 09:01:26 AM
In all honesty, the "everybody gets a trophy" generation does learn life lessons - they just learn them later in life. I work in a large department for a large company and take part in quite a few interviews for entry-level positions. It's very common for HR to send me resumes of new grads who have applied for a mid-level position requiring 4-6 years of experience and paying ~$70k. When I call them to discuss an entry-level position (paying ~$40k), roughly 20% tell me that they're really not interested in that, often citing their 1-2 years/summers of internships and/or their GPA. There's a major disconnect there. IMO, it's not a matter of being unprepared to do a job or a matter of not wanting to put in the work required for some professions, it's a matter of maturity and of obliviousness. Age 22 is the new age 16, so to speak.
I'm in "this generation", only a few years out and have seen the same thing in many of my interviews for kids out of school to come into my group. There are three who think they're going to be running the company tomorrow for every one who is willing to, and can comprehend the work required to get there. Definitely the biggest thing I look for when talking to them - I've passed up 4.0s for 3.5s and even a kid with two years of internship experience in my industry (very rare) for someone who had never had a job before; that person turned out to be the hardest working one in the group.
Merritts is the best post I have read on this topic and that is pretty often my experience as well. I have one employee that is very smart and very capable, but completely lacks perspective about what it really takes to do "hard work" in the workplace. She will be fine eventually.
Part of it is, the last few years not withstanding, this generation largely grew up with some affluence. They didn't necessarily *have* to work and learn some of these lessons early on. I have a college aged son, and some of his friends to this day have rarely worked - even those who have dropped out of college are hardly working but passing the day being 20 year old oafs on their parents couch - and the parents are OK with this.
That is probably the only piece of parenting advice that I can give that is worth a damn. Make your kids get a job in high school. I don't care if you sh*t golden turds, make your kids earn his or her spending money by flipping burgers, mowing lawns, etc. No matter if your kids goes to college or not, working hard will get them to succeed somehow.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on June 12, 2012, 09:01:26 AM
In all honesty, the "everybody gets a trophy" generation does learn life lessons - they just learn them later in life. I work in a large department for a large company and take part in quite a few interviews for entry-level positions. It's very common for HR to send me resumes of new grads who have applied for a mid-level position requiring 4-6 years of experience and paying ~$70k. When I call them to discuss an entry-level position (paying ~$40k), roughly 20% tell me that they're really not interested in that, often citing their 1-2 years/summers of internships and/or their GPA. There's a major disconnect there. IMO, it's not a matter of being unprepared to do a job or a matter of not wanting to put in the work required for some professions, it's a matter of maturity and of obliviousness. Age 22 is the new age 16, so to speak.
We've had new hires with great credentials who interviewed very well but once they got on the job, we found that they were very immature, personally and socially, despite being very bright and qualified. One guy couldn't get his direct deposit set up because he didn't have his own bank account. Another asked for 2 consecutive days off within his first month because he was going to a Brewers game on a weekday afternoon and then out to celebrate his friend's birthday afterwards (i.e. he needed the next day to recover). Not only is that a pretty ridiculous request but that's exactly how he requested it! Both of those guys have turned into very good employees (who hopefully don't read MUScoop) but it took a year or two before they really "got it." There have even been times where we've interviewed young, slightly underqualified candidates for internal promotions just to pass over them and let them face some rejection.
From my experiences, I feel like many new grads are very qualified for their chosen careers, but they're not qualified to live life as a working adult.
If I'm being honest, it took me some time to "get it" professionally as well. 15 credits a semester and a part time job doesn't really prepare you for 45+ hours per week and grinding in a cubicle.
What you are seeing might be a "me generation" thing, it might just be immaturity, but your point is valid, those kids need to wake up.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what the long-term ramifications of "everybody gets a trophy". We do a lot of hand-ringing, but it might turn out to be much ado about nothing.
1970: "Those damn hippies!"
/shakes fist
2012: "Those kids always getting trophies!"
/shakes fist
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 12, 2012, 06:05:04 AM
Trust me, they're not mutually exclusive (and I'm not saying that you said that they are).
That's a bad scene.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 12, 2012, 10:52:12 AM
If I'm being honest, it took me some time to "get it" professionally as well. 15 credits a semester and a part time job doesn't really prepare you for 45+ hours per week and grinding in a cubicle.
What you are seeing might be a "me generation" thing, it might just be immaturity, but your point is valid, those kids need to wake up.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what the long-term ramifications of "everybody gets a trophy". We do a lot of hand-ringing, but it might turn out to be much ado about nothing.
1970: "Those damn hippies!"
/shakes fist
2012: "Those kids always getting trophies!"
/shakes fist
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zGnH6HWaAi0/TC00x3ZJ3sI/AAAAAAAAHKA/YLvL0_MAUSs/grampa.jpg)
Getting a trophy and having fun are OK, up to a certain age. (up to age 10,11?) Kids need to learn the game and have fun early on. If that happens, they will keep playing and develop skills.
After 10 or 11, you gotta wanna win. You need to learn that losing feels bad and winning feels better. Also need to treat losing as an experience to learn from, not something you dread too much.
For a great article on this subject, check out this story from July/August 2011 edition of The Atlantic.
How to Land Your Kid in Therapy
Why the obsession with our kids' happiness may be dooming them to unhappy adulthoods. A therapist and mother reports.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/how-to-land-your-kid-in-therapy/8555/
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on June 12, 2012, 09:12:31 AM
That is probably the only piece of parenting advice that I can give that is worth a damn. Make your kids get a job in high school. I don't care if you sh*t golden turds, make your kids earn his or her spending money by flipping burgers, mowing lawns, etc. No matter if your kids goes to college or not, working hard will get them to succeed somehow.
As a father, nothing will ever make me happier than to hear from my kids on their respective 15th birthdays, "Dad, will you take me to apply for a work permit?"
"Dad, we're going to elope" is a close second.
This speech is by David McCullough Jr. The son of the famed author/historian David McCullough
Quote from: mu-rara on June 12, 2012, 11:22:59 AM
Getting a trophy and having fun are OK, up to a certain age. (up to age 10,11?) Kids need to learn the game and have fun early on. If that happens, they will keep playing and develop skills.
After 10 or 11, you gotta wanna win. You need to learn that losing feels bad and winning feels better. Also need to treat losing as an experience to learn from, not something you dread too much.
For me, learning should be the primary goal until about 13-14, and maybe until the varsity HS level.
I don't know if it is really important to win before that. Learn the game. Learn to play hard. Learn to compete. Learn to get better. Have confidence that you can get better.
Winning and losing isn't that important, in my opinion. I know we all thought it was, but looking back, it wasn't.
I've been coached by some guys who were really into winning, and I learned the least from them. On the other hand, I've had some wonderful coaches who taught me the value to competition and working hard. They didn't talk much about standings.
Learning HOW to lose gracefully may be one the greatest lessons you can teach young people.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 13, 2012, 04:11:20 PM
For me, learning should be the primary goal until about 13-14, and maybe until the varsity HS level.
I don't know if it is really important to win before that. Learn the game. Learn to play hard. Learn to compete. Learn to get better. Have confidence that you can get better.
Winning and losing isn't that important, in my opinion. I know we all thought it was, but looking back, it wasn't.
I've been coached by some guys who were really into winning, and I learned the least from them. On the other hand, I've had some wonderful coaches who taught me the value to competition and working hard. They didn't talk much about standings.
I agree 02. 13-14 would be even better. In a world where you've got raving maniac parents screaming at their 2nd grade kids at YMCA basketball on Saturday morning and screaming even louder at the 15 year old referee, I am hoping for 10-11 years old.
Quote from: mu-rara on June 14, 2012, 09:44:42 AM
I agree 02. 13-14 would be even better. In worls where you've got raving maniac parents screaming at their 2nd grade kids at YMCA basketball on Saturday morning and screaming even louder at the 15 year old referee, I am hoping for 10-11 years old.
You're right. In a perfect world, you wouldn't really see "sports leagues", but rather more "sports clinics" or something similar.
More focus on teaching and technique rather than wins and losses.
At 12 years old, it's great to go undefeated, but if you didn't get better that season, it's really a waste.
The U5 soccer team I coached this year went undefeated.
Taste it, Sir Alex.
Quote from: CTWarrior on June 11, 2012, 10:13:04 AM
I thought it was an excellent speech. My generation of parents (those with kids graduating high school in the last 5-10 years or later) have done a miserable job raising their children. We are churning out entitled, spoiled little stinkers who have had their lives micro-managed and every little thing handled for them, rendering them incapable of dealing with failure. It is not their fault. Our generation for some strange reason has decided that our precious little angels are perfect and have to be protected from unfairness (perceived or otherwise) from those who don't completely comprehend their wonderfulness. Kids don't learn life lessons like getting bad grades means you have to work harder, or being cut or benched means you have to work harder, or wanting something means you need to work for it. They expect everything to be given to them and that's because basically everything is.
How is this for a theory? The fact that women work really screws things up. Once women started working, the work force looking for jobs probably grew by 1/3 or something. So there are less jobs to go around. Unfortunately, except for jobs requiring heavy physical labor (or math related stuff or anything requiring logic or reason) women are just as good as men and are willing to work for less (if they are married and only harassed by the attractive men), which in turn creates the current scarcity of jobs. Plus even the hard physical labor jobs they can get because they can sue and say it's discriminatory to have jobs they can't do. (We also have too many lawyers, but that's another discussion) So now kids are unsupervised or raised by caregivers who just want to make the kid happy, and parents with two incomes, who feel guilty about not spending enough time with them, buy them stuff to compensate because they have some money but not much time, which turns the kids into entitled little jerks who learn to expect something for nothing.
Not only that, but I sometimes have to wait over an hour after I get home for dinner or sometimes I have to take them out or get take out. What's up with that?
Sarcasm? Or are you really this much of a tool?
1) Generic "kids these days are terrible!". You don't think your parents said that about you, that their parents didn't say that about them?
2) the women who are joining the work place are better employees then average man (because a lower percentage of them are joining, they get better grades, are more likely to get degrees) so our country's economy bennifits.
3) I would love to be a stay at home dad. What is wrong with that?
Quote from: reinko on June 13, 2012, 07:22:39 PM
Learning HOW to lose gracefully may be one the greatest lessons you can teach young people.
That lesson would have been wasted on this guy!
Quote from: RawdogDX on June 14, 2012, 07:57:03 PM
Sarcasm? Or are you really this much of a tool?
1) Generic "kids these days are terrible!". You don't think your parents said that about you, that their parents didn't say that about them?
Not exactly true... while kids today may be terrible, we're not blaming the kids anymore. This is more of Gen X telling the immediate generation of parents before them that they're terrible parents.
EDIT: (When I say "immediate generation before", I mean late Gen X'ers telling earlier Gen X'ers, not Gen X telling the baby boomers... they'll get their talking-to when social security blows up.)
Quote from: RawdogDX on June 14, 2012, 07:57:03 PM
Sarcasm? Or are you really this much of a tool?
1) Generic "kids these days are terrible!". You don't think your parents said that about you, that their parents didn't say that about them?
2) the women who are joining the work place are better employees then average man (because a lower percentage of them are joining, they get better grades, are more likely to get degrees) so our country's economy bennifits.
3) I would love to be a stay at home dad. What is wrong with that?
1. Unlike past generations who complain about the following generation, I was making a point not about the next generation, but about the way MY generation is dropping the ball as parents. My wife is a speech therapist in the school system and I have been a year round youth coach (my son is off to college in the fall so I am involved with my last team this spring) in several sports for 25-30 years so I have experience in this area and to say that parents are WAY more involved in their kids lives than our parents were is an understatement, pretty much always to the kid's detriment.
2. I would have thought that the part about me having to wait an hour for dinner might have given the part about women working away as the joke it was meant to be.
3. Nothing, please do (I get the feeling I'd hate to have you around in my office) and by all means continue to share your humorless insights with us on message boards.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 13, 2012, 04:11:20 PM
For me, learning should be the primary goal until about 13-14, and maybe until the varsity HS level.
I don't know if it is really important to win before that. Learn the game. Learn to play hard. Learn to compete. Learn to get better. Have confidence that you can get better.
Winning and losing isn't that important, in my opinion. I know we all thought it was, but looking back, it wasn't.
I've been coached by some guys who were really into winning, and I learned the least from them. On the other hand, I've had some wonderful coaches who taught me the value to competition and working hard. They didn't talk much about standings.
And then to help the thread get us a little closer to home and heart, we can re-read these comments:
http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/content.php?275