FYI all of you Milwaukeans Frontier is offering to swap Frontier miles to Delta Skymiles through August due to their abandoning MKE.
On a side note I wonder what would have happened if people hadn't got their panties in a bundle when Airtran tried to buy Midwest. My guess is a lot more flights and destinations out of MKE
Quote from: PBRme on June 05, 2012, 03:14:23 PM
FYI all of you Milwaukeans Frontier is offering to swap Frontier miles to Delta Skymiles through August due to their abandoning MKE.
On a side note I wonder what would have happened if people hadn't got their panties in a bundle when Airtran tried to buy Midwest. My guess is a lot more flights and destinations out of MKE
Maybe not. Airtran got bought out by Southwest, who might have cut flights, anyway, seeing as they already have a presence in Milwaukee and would have had some redundancies.
Agreed, PBRme .. 20/20 hindsight .. seemed like Airtran was a bad deal years ago .. now, not so much.
Maybe an economic talking guy can explain this, but it makes no sense to me how Midwest Express/Frontier has exploded like this. Over the past many years, traveler counts have risen at Mitchell airport .. how did they destroy the airline, when they had more customers coming in the door every year?
Quote from: warriorchick on June 05, 2012, 03:26:18 PM
Maybe not. Airtran got bought out by Southwest, who might have cut flights, anyway, seeing as they already have a presence in Milwaukee and would have had some redundancies.
Airtran might not have been bought by Southwest if it had acquired Midwest, Airtron and MW were flying the same planes and had a lot of synergies that Frontier/MW did not.
So, we're swappin' the miles out before they're completely worthless?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 05, 2012, 06:46:38 PM
So, we're swappin' the miles out before they're completely worthless?
should be able to get a 5 year subscription to playboy with your miles, homz.
Quote from: PBRme on June 05, 2012, 03:14:23 PM
FYI all of you Milwaukeans Frontier is offering to swap Frontier miles to Delta Skymiles through August due to their abandoning MKE.
On a side note I wonder what would have happened if people hadn't got their panties in a bundle when Airtran tried to buy Midwest. My guess is a lot more flights and destinations out of MKE
All I can say on that is, "It's all about the points."
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 05, 2012, 03:27:49 PM
Agreed, PBRme .. 20/20 hindsight .. seemed like Airtran was a bad deal years ago .. now, not so much.
Maybe an economic talking guy can explain this, but it makes no sense to me how Midwest Express/Frontier has exploded like this. Over the past many years, traveler counts have risen at Mitchell airport .. how did they destroy the airline, when they had more customers coming in the door every year?
The reason so many more customers were coming in through the gates at MKE is because airfares were cheap. For a while there, Southwest, AirTran and Frontier/Midwest/Republic were in a fare war... as an example, I've heard anecdotes of people going to Vegas for $99 round trip during that time.
Regardless, Southwest, Frontier & AirTran cater mostly to "discretionary" travelers, i.e. those traveling for leisure, and cheap fares to Vegas, Orlando, Miami, Denver, etc. were enough to entice thousands of travelers to book a trip who otherwise wouldn't have if fares were "normal" prices. Moreover, you can't sell every fare at deep discounts and make money in the short-term. MKE was basically a loss-leader for these airlines; the probable strategy was that if they could solidify a base of leisure travelers, grab some business travelers in the process, and wait for the other discount airlines to fold/exit, they could recoup a couple years of losses over a decade of normalized fares with loyal customers.
In other words, the increased "demand" was artificial and unsustainable. It was basically an exercise in survival for the airlines that played the low fare game... and now, at the end of the day, the winners are likely going to be the airlines that didn't play.
and here I thought the passenger count was up because of Mitchell being used as a hub thus more connections via Mitchell = more passengers
Quote from: Red Stripe on June 06, 2012, 02:05:27 PM
and here I thought the passenger count was up because of Mitchell being used as a hub thus more connections via Mitchell = more passengers
I would fly through Mitchell all the time if I lived in the Northern Burbs of Chicago. O'Hare is such a pain in the ass to deal with. I fly through Midway almost exclusively, even though I live ten miles closer to O'Hare. Front door to airline gate, it's actually quicker, and the chance of my flight being delayed is much smaller...
Interesting take, Benny B.
Although the concept of an airport being a "loss-leader" doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally. A loss leader at the grocery store means you sell something at a loss, just so you get a customer *who buys other stuff* while they are there.
How could a flight be a loss-leader? Sell the flight at a loss so they can make profit on the sale of the overpriced on-board beverages?
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 07, 2012, 08:10:44 AM
Interesting take, Benny B.
Although the concept of an airport being a "loss-leader" doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally. A loss leader at the grocery store means you sell something at a loss, just so you get a customer *who buys other stuff* while they are there.
How could a flight be a loss-leader? Sell the flight at a loss so they can make profit on the sale of the overpriced on-board beverages?
Granted, "loss-leader" isn't the most accurate term in the sense that it's commonly used in retail for a specific period of time (one visit). The modern airline business model is built heavily around repeat business (when's the last time you saw an airline without a frequent flier program). I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but many travelers - both business and leisure - often overlook moderate differentials in price, itinerary, convenience, etc. in order to accumulate FF miles in their preferred program.
As an example, I'm a member of United's and American's FF program. 30 days ago, I had ~200,000 AAdvantage miles and maybe 20,000 or so United FF miles accumulated since 2004. AAdvantage is my preferred program, and there have been numerous instances over the last eight years where a better fare/itinerary was available on United (or another airline); yet I have typically chosen to fly American instead. My reward for spending more and/or inconveniencing myself on multiple occasions -- two free round-trip tickets to Maui this November (a cost of 90,000 miles each). If I had split my flights over the past eight years between American and United, my wife and I would be taking different planes to Hawaii this year or waiting for MU to play in Maui in 2020. Do I come out ahead in the end? Probably not, but I earned the award I wanted sooner, and American has had a loyal & profitable customer for nearly a decade and at least for the foreseeable future.
So one way to explain "loss-leader" in the sense of the airline model is that instead of getting someone into a grocery store hoping they'll buy something else more profitable while they're still captive (i.e. before they exit the store), the airlines are hoping to get someone into their FF program with the hope that they'll pay more profitable fares for future flights while they're still captive (an active member of the FF program).
In other words, look at the period in which one is an active member of a frequent flyer as "one visit" to that airline. You might spend only 15 minutes at the grocery store; however, you might spend 15 years as a frequent flyer.
Good explanation, thanks.