As many of you are aware, a Marquette student accidentally fell from a 3rd floor balcony to the pavement below early Friday morning when the railing he was leaning on failed. In what has to be described as an absolute miracle, I have received positive reports about his condition within the last hour from very reliable sources. The continuing prayers of the MU community are appreciated. He is not out of the woods yet.
Where at?
15th & Kilbourn
Quote from: jsglow on May 05, 2012, 04:24:44 PM
15th & Kilbourn
Are those the Balcony Apartments? I saw that e-mail, glad to hear there is some positive news.
Yes, I believe so.
Yes, it was the balcony apartments. They were voted as the worst place to live on campus this year. It's really too bad, but I would be lying if I said I didn't see something like this coming. The ceiling fell in at my buddy's apartment on the 4th floor there earlier this year. I hope the building is condemned.
Quote from: RideMyBuycks on May 07, 2012, 01:33:39 AM
Yes, it was the balcony apartments. They were voted as the worst place to live on campus this year. It's really too bad, but I would be lying if I said I didn't see something like this coming. The ceiling fell in at my buddy's apartment on the 4th floor there earlier this year. I hope the building is condemned.
The ceiling in my bathroom of my last apartment on campus fell in. It would be quasi understandable if the building were 100 years old (i.e. Ardmore, etc.) but it was built in the 70's. Thank God none of us were in it when it happened.
Senior university administrators are plenty upset. Let's hope serious pressure is brought to bear on the mayor's office to fully enforce building codes. JSOnline indicated that representatives of the ownership group claimed that 'minor violations' had been noted (and reportedly corrected) earlier. Sorry, not nearly well enough.
I hope some top notch Marquette PI attorney puts the 'fear of God' into every apartment owner who rents to our kids. We understand that they'll always be college apartments . . . just make sure they are SAFE college apartments.
In 1998 there was a violent coup to overthrow Pres Suharto of Indonesia. The expat community was evacuated and Jakarta Intl School closed early for the year. Most folks pitched up in Singapore or Bangkok. I was with the folks in Singapore. They held a graduation ceremony for the JIS seniors in Singapore. That night, one of the grads fell to his death, more than 20 stories. There was debate as to whether it was an accident or a suicide. The irony is that the kid's name was Leaper.
I know you're not suggesting that the MU student did anything foolish Warthog. The facts of the case are that a completely innocent kid suffered a serious injury when a railing failed. We all pray for his well-being.
Curiosity question, was he sober?
In the early 1980s a student fell to his death from a balcony of the Reeves Apartment on 14th and Kilbourn. The year before a student committed suicide by jumping from an 8th floor window of McCormick.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 07, 2012, 10:02:50 PM
Curiosity question, was he sober?
Sitting on a balcony railing early Friday morning? Doubtful. Gotta be smarter than that.
I'll be praying for the young man, his friends and family.
Any updates on his condition?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 08, 2012, 08:49:30 AM
Sitting on a balcony railing early Friday morning?
The report is that he was leaning against it, not sitting. I agree that since it was 2:30 on a Friday morning, he probably wasn't sober, but I think the distinction here has merit.
If the railing actually broke, then it doesn't matter if the kid was sober or not.
I think there is a reasonable expectation for people to lean against railings.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 08, 2012, 11:04:23 AM
If the railing actually broke, then it doesn't matter if the kid was sober or not.
I think there is a reasonable expectation for people to lean against railings.
I heard directly from a school official that the dumpster for the apartment building was right under his balcony, and the railing gave way as he was leaning over it trying to toss a bag of garbage into the dumpster.
This kid has a very high GPA in a tough major, and it was the Friday before finals week. Given all the facts, it's doubtful he was drunk.
Quote from: warriorchick on May 08, 2012, 11:14:36 AM
This kid has a very high GPA in a tough major, and it was the Friday before finals week. Given all the facts, it's doubtful he was drunk.
Given this statement, if true, sounds like he was more likely drunk.
Quote from: PTM on May 08, 2012, 01:13:19 PM
Given this statement, if true, sounds like he was more likely drunk.
That makes no sense whatsoever. I suppose you are saying he didn't need to study, so he got drunk instead. Most of the serious students I know take finals very seriously and wouldn't be partying on the weekend before finals.
I can't say any more than that without violating HIPPAA and FERPA laws. But for God's sake, the kid, to my knowledge, is still in the hospital. Would it kill you to give him the benefit of the doubt?
Quote from: warriorchick on May 08, 2012, 01:20:54 PM
That makes no sense whatsoever. I suppose you are saying he didn't need to study, so he got drunk instead. Most of the serious students I know take finals very seriously and wouldn't be partying on the weekend before finals.
I can't say any more than that without violating HIPPAA and FERPA laws. But for God's sake, the kid, to my knowledge, is still in the hospital. Would it kill you to give him the benefit of the doubt?
It was early Friday morning (i.e. Thursday night) the weekend before finals. When I was a student, I likely would have been drunk at that time. That doesn't mean I wasn't a "serious student" who didn't take finals "very seriously."
Based on past incidences around the country, when is the last time a student was involved in a similar type of accident at a similar time of day but wasn't drinking? Doesn't mean he's a bad kid or a bad student. I don't think anyone is saying that. We're just saying that if history is any indication, it's fair to assume he was not sober.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 08, 2012, 01:44:50 PM
It was early Friday morning (i.e. Thursday night) the weekend before finals. When I was a student, I likely would have been drunk at that time. That doesn't mean I wasn't a "serious student" who didn't take finals "very seriously."
Based on past incidences around the country, when is the last time a student was involved in a similar type of accident at a similar time of day but wasn't drinking? Doesn't mean he's a bad kid or a bad student. I don't think anyone is saying that. We're just saying that if history is any indication, it's fair to assume he was not sober.
Thank you.
warriorchick, ever think about changing you moniker to Helen Lovejoy?
Quote from: warriorchick on May 08, 2012, 11:14:36 AM
I heard directly from a school official that the dumpster for the apartment building was right under his balcony, and the railing gave way as he was leaning over it trying to toss a bag of garbage into the dumpster.
This kid has a very high GPA in a tough major, and it was the Friday before finals week. Given all the facts, it's doubtful he was drunk.
Again, doesn't matter to me if he was drinking, or throwing garbage out.
A railing should be able to hold people on the balcony. That's the point. People don't get heavier when they drink, therefore, the railing should hold sober people and drunk people the same.
Quote from: warriorchick on May 08, 2012, 01:20:54 PMI can't say any more than that without violating HIPPAA and FERPA laws. But for God's sake, the kid, to my knowledge, is still in the hospital. Would it kill you to give him the benefit of the doubt?
Another curiosity question...are you a health-care provider for the student or employee for Marquette, his health care insurance agency, Milwaukee County EMS, or Froedtert? If not, you aren't subject to HIPAA.
And there's nothing wrong with being drunk. College kids drink, I didn't mean the question as any sort of condemnation, I was just asking if anyone knew. It was simply curiosity, because the outsider perspective always changes when alcohol's involved, though often-times it isn't a fair change in perspective.
Quote from: PTM on May 08, 2012, 01:53:08 PM
Thank you.
warriorchick, ever think about changing you moniker to Helen Lovejoy?
(http://othersideofscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/think_of_the_children-362x300.jpg)
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 08, 2012, 02:20:19 PM
Another curiosity question...are you a health-care provider for the student or employee for Marquette, his health care insurance agency, Milwaukee County EMS, or Froedtert? If not, you aren't subject to HIPAA.
This is a very unfortunate incident and I am assuming the son/daughter of jsglow/warriorchick must know the student. As they have mentioned before a child at MU IIRC. I am sure they are just trying to defend the student from the automatic assumption that he was drunk. Something I would probably do myself if I knew him. Can't we all just get along?
Praying for a speedy recovery.
Yes, he was sober. He was simply throwing his garbage out as the open dumpster was directly below his balcony. Might have been a little lean just so he could see his target. Railing failed and he fell. No more to the story than that.
I continue to hear positive news but my last report was about 24 hours ago.
Is this the building on the northwest corner?
Quote from: warriorchick on May 08, 2012, 01:20:54 PM
I can't say any more than that without violating HIPPAA and FERPA laws.
Not sure what "HIPPAA" is, but I'm confident you could type more.
From a legal standpoint, if I'm the bad guy I'd probably assert that people shouldn't be throwing trash from high off a balcony.. but, a horrible story and I hope dude recovers.
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 08, 2012, 08:28:10 PM
Not sure what "HIPPAA" is, but I'm confident you could type more.
From a legal standpoint, if I'm the bad guy I'd probably assert that people shouldn't be throwing trash from high off a balcony.. but, a horrible story and I hope dude recovers.
As I said earlier, I only hope that our neighborhood landlords take seriously their responsibility for building safety. Again, all that matters right now is that the young man gets healthy. When I know more and am in a position to share an update, I'll happily keep you guys in the loop. Prayers necessarily continue, please.
Quote from: jsglow on May 07, 2012, 07:19:18 PM
Senior university administrators are plenty upset. Let's hope serious pressure is brought to bear on the mayor's office to fully enforce building codes. JSOnline indicated that representatives of the ownership group claimed that 'minor violations' had been noted (and reportedly corrected) earlier. Sorry, not nearly well enough.
I hope some top notch Marquette PI attorney puts the 'fear of God' into every apartment owner who rents to our kids. We understand that they'll always be college apartments . . . just make sure they are SAFE college apartments.
Full disclosure --- in a previous job I investigated injuries and deaths at student housing facilities on behalf of insurance underwriters.
In my experience, the vast majority -- and I'm talking >90% of the time -- the injured or decedent was intoxicated (i.e. over 0.08 BAC), and alcohol was deemed to be the primary contributing factor.
Of accidents involving a building or code violation (known or not):
1) two-thirds would have likely occurred even if no violation had existed.
2) resident activity (or negligence) accounts for half of all building/code violations, e.g. misuse of electrical circuits, furniture placed in front of egress points, makeshift balconies (the last of which occurs more often than it should).
Very few accidents -- around 1% -- involve a
known building or code violation (i.e. something the landlord was aware of but failed to correct) that directly contributed to the injury or death.
In other words, "cracking down" on landlords for building and code violations will do very little to prevent future accidents. In my opinion, the best way to reduce the number of injuries and deaths in student housing are to ensure fire/smoke detectors are centrally monitored, remove or completely enclose any "open-air" access points over one story (e.g. balconies, exterior staircases, catwalks, etc.), and fill in swimming pools (not a problem in Wisconsin... huuuuuge liability down south). While such typically cannot be addressed by municipalities, eventually, insurance companies are just going to stop insuring student housing facilities that don't.
The best way to keep your own child safe in student housing: only lease from landlords who have deep pockets... it shouldn't be a surprise that those with the most to lose typically have the safest facilities.
I drove down 15th st friday morning. This is the building that is on the northwest corner of the intersection... immediately south of Kensington.
When i drove by, around 7:35am, there was a MPD squad car parked on the street and one of the City of Milwaukee yellow maintenance van/trucks with two workers taken plywood up that little alley behind the building.
Seemed weird to me that this city workers were there putting plywood up and not the building owners people, or does the city hire out their workforce for jobs like this?
Also seemed weird that a squad car was there and not DPS.
Just not sure how the city comes into it is all.
Quote from: jaybilaswho? on May 09, 2012, 01:26:21 PM
I drove down 15th st friday morning. This is the building that is on the northwest corner of the intersection... immediately south of Kensington.
When i drove by, around 7:35am, there was a MPD squad car parked on the street and one of the City of Milwaukee yellow maintenance van/trucks with two workers taken plywood up that little alley behind the building.
Seemed weird to me that this city workers were there putting plywood up and not the building owners people, or does the city hire out their workforce for jobs like this?
Also seemed weird that a squad car was there and not DPS.
Just not sure how the city comes into it is all.
Um, because the apartment is not on campus?
Quote from: warriorchick on May 09, 2012, 01:59:01 PM
Um, because the apartment is not on campus?
DPS patrols MU's campus and non-campus neighborhood far more than MPD.
Don't know about this specific situation, but they are around a lot more in general.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 09, 2012, 02:32:19 PM
DPS patrols MU's campus and non-campus neighborhood far more than MPD.
Don't know about this specific situation, but they are around a lot more in general.
True, but assuming that JayBilas Who was on his way to work, that was 4-6 hours after the incident. Even if DPS were first on the scene, they likely would have handed this type of matter over to the police by that point. I'd rather have DPS get back to patrolling rather than having them babysit some city workers putting up plywood.
Quote from: warriorchick on May 09, 2012, 03:10:26 PM
True, but assuming that JayBilas Who was on his way to work, that was 4-6 hours after the incident. Even if DPS were first on the scene, they likely would have handed this type of matter over to the police by that point. I'd rather have DPS get back to patrolling rather than having them babysit some city workers putting up plywood.
That's fine, my only point was that off campus housing is routinely patrolled by DPS, and its not uncommon to see them on the scene, even if MPD is there.
It has now been publicly reported that his condition has been upgraded from critical to satisfactory.
Great to hear. Hopefully everything continues to trend upwards.
Quote from: warriorchick on May 09, 2012, 03:10:26 PM
True, but assuming that JayBilas Who was on his way to work, that was 4-6 hours after the incident. Even if DPS were first on the scene, they likely would have handed this type of matter over to the police by that point. I'd rather have DPS get back to patrolling rather than having them babysit some city workers putting up plywood.
Even still, I am more curiuos about why city workers were doing this work. That is a building, presumably, owned by a private owner and not the city.
Quote from: jaybilaswho? on May 14, 2012, 09:37:38 AM
Even still, I am more curiuos about why city workers were doing this work. That is a building, presumably, owned by a private owner and not the city.
I'm assuming if there has been code violations and now a serious injury, the Building Inspectors deemed the situation action worthy as a public safety issue.. They'll backcharge any costs to the landlord, which will be ridiculously marked up.
Quote from: PTM on May 14, 2012, 09:46:41 AM
I'm assuming if there has been code violations and now a serious injury, the Building Inspectors deemed the situation action worthy as a public safety issue.. They'll backcharge any costs to the landlord, which will be ridiculously marked up.
+1
I doubt they are going to let the landlord with the alleged violation do his own repair work at this point.
City will do it and send him the bill.
Word I now have is that the student has (or will shortly) transfer to a rehab facility. While out of the woods, he has a long road of rehabilitation ahead of him. Not the way most young people want to spent their summer. But I'm sure he's happy given what might have happened.
Jsglow
Thanks for update. We need to keep him in our prayers.
Quote from: jsglow on May 14, 2012, 06:53:14 PM
Word I now have is that the student has (or will shortly) transfer to a rehab facility. While out of the woods, he has a long road of rehabilitation ahead of him. Not the way most young people want to spent their summer. But I'm sure he's happy given what might have happened.
Very glad to hear. Unfortunately, the outcome far too often never gets this far, hoping for the best for this kid.
i heard the landlord was on the up and up with regards to building inspections and codes and such. so the onus went to the city who gave the building passing grades for saftey. if the city was taking on the repairs, i am thinking it is they who f ##k'd up. so if there are lawsuits, i am sure the landlord will be forwarding them all to the city. it was probably just a very bad accident. wrong place/wrong time. glad to hear the student's condition is improving. could be planning a funeral instead.
Quote from: wyzgy on May 30, 2012, 04:47:11 AM
i heard the landlord was on the up and up with regards to building inspections and codes and such. so the onus went to the city who gave the building passing grades for saftey. if the city was taking on the repairs, i am thinking it is they who f ##k'd up. so if there are lawsuits, i am sure the landlord will be forwarding them all to the city. it was probably just a very bad accident. wrong place/wrong time. glad to hear the student's condition is improving. could be planning a funeral instead.
Unfortunately, I don't think a negligent/incompetent building inspector or city employee is an affirmative defense in Wisconsin (the MUesq.'s may be able to answer this). Nevertheless, as a landlord you have to maintain a safe and compliant building regardless of what any authority says or doesn't say... assuming the injured party has 0% culpability for his injuries, a passed inspection that should have failed may go a long ways towards minimizing potential punitive damages against the LL, but the LL isn't going to get off the hook completely.
there will probably be percentages of liability divided up throughout. where it falls(no pun intended) who knows, but is a win win for the lawyers. they will probably go after the deepest pockets/insurance companies cover your arse