ODB?
Mbakwe?
Tim Maymon's boy?
Amo?
Krunti Hester?
(We'll say that the transfer has to have played in at least one regular season game, so a guy like Tyshawn Taylor doesn't count)
Tyshawn Taylor
Dameon Mason. Left a void.
We lost some much needed toughness when ODB left. Mbwake was the most talented, but somewhat of a lunkhead.
Odb - his staying could have translated into a National Championship in 2003...
With Blanskton on the Wing maybe we get a national Title. Huge upgrade over Townsend and would have let us play a little smaller VS Kansas. With Merritt and Jackson both on the floor we got run right off the court.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on April 30, 2012, 09:58:52 AM
With Blanskton on the Wing maybe we get a national Title. Huge upgrade over Townsend and would have let us play a little smaller VS Kansas. With Merritt and Jackson both on the floor we got run right off the court.
+1
Blankson and Karon Bradley come to mind. Bradley lead Wichita State to the NCAA's a few years after transferring.
Also, if Karon Bradley had stayed, Marcus Jackson never has to be a point forward, and that embarrassing loss Western Michigan at home in the NIT doesn't happen either.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on April 30, 2012, 09:58:52 AM
With Blanskton on the Wing maybe we get a national Title. Huge upgrade over Townsend and would have let us play a little smaller VS Kansas. With Merritt and Jackson both on the floor we got run right off the court.
I agree. In hindsight, with what we ended up doing that year, his leaving hurt us the most. With ODB, yeah...we possibly got a shot for the title. But...would him being around have limited some of Wade's flow that year? I don't know. Either way, I'd have liked to have had him and taken my chances.
I think there is some legend building with these early responses.
Hard to claim a guy leaving hurt the most when 10 months later the team he left achieved the best accomplishment for the program in over two decades.
Quote from: lurch91 on April 30, 2012, 10:25:52 AM
Blankson and Karon Bradley come to mind. Bradley lead Wichita State to the NCAA's a few years after transferring.
Also, if Karon Bradley had stayed, Marcus Jackson never has to be a point forward, and that embarrassing loss Western Michigan at home in the NIT doesn't happen either.
Your honor, I believe the said Marquette vs. Western Michigan University game in reference has been stricken from the Marquette record and this was done almost instantaneously after it occurred.
Judge - Sustained! That game has been stricken from the record. It never happened in the eyes of this courtroom.
ODB definitely hurt. I think his transfer cost us real chance at the title.
If we had lost by 2 or 5 or even 8 to Kansas, I could see making the argument that ODB's presence might have made a difference, but thinking he could have caused a 35 point swing is wishful thinking.
Lenny
I was thinking more the whole season and not just Kansas game. Agreed he was not the missing link in that mess. Possibly with him different seed and different matchup. We have been pretty lucky and have not had many real big losses. Our gets way outweigh the one's we lost.
Its ODB, no question.
Worst suggestion is Mason. He would have only hurt the development of the Amigos and Marquette's graduation rate.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 30, 2012, 10:51:07 AM
If we had lost by 2 or 5 or even 8 to Kansas, I could see making the argument that ODB's presence might have made a difference, but thinking he could have caused a 35 point swing is wishful thinking.
Not only that, but does Novak get off the bench if ODB is here? Steve hit some big shots in the second half of the season, and they probably don't beat Missouri without him.
i agree on ODB too. While he would have made us slightly better and deeper in 2003, his impact may have been it's greatest in 2004 when we could have really used him.
Would have helped avoid Creans embarrassing teams that he fielded in 2004 and 2005, when in his 5th and 6th years his rosters looked like the reclamation project of a first year hire.
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 30, 2012, 10:58:51 AM
Not only that, but does Novak get off the bench if ODB is here? Steve hit some big shots in the second half of the season, and they probably don't beat Missouri without him.
We can take "probably" out of that sentence.
Sitting in the RCA dome watching Novak's performance as a Freshman in that overtime period was very, very impressive.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on April 30, 2012, 09:58:52 AM
With Blanskton on the Wing maybe we get a national Title. Huge upgrade over Townsend and would have let us play a little smaller VS Kansas. With Merritt and Jackson both on the floor we got run right off the court.
Fact.
ODB transfer hurt the most by far as we would have one the national title. The upgrade over Townsend who was the weak link of that team factors in huge.
from a pure talent and dominant standpoint at a position we always need help, it has to be Mbakwe but considering the fact that hed be long gone by now had he stayed at MU there is no saying what player hed actually be.
ODB would have helped immensely on that '03 team, but I agree that Novak may not have played as much, therefore not hit his gigantic OT treys against Missouri... double edged sword, I guess.
It's hard to distinguish between Bradley, Amo, and Mason-- Bradley would have provided at least a SHRED of depth at PG, not to mention the kid could hit some big shots.
Amo is still one of those intriguing "could have been" types, was big enough to bang in the post, but could hit outside shots, too--that Alaska Shootout game vs. South Carolina has to be one of the more impressive performances by an MU player.
And Mason could have turned into a real solid player. I think he would have complimented the Amigos and provided depth, not so much taken away from that group.
Guess the theme of this thread is that depth matters. A LOT.
I don't know if going pro counts as a transfer in this sense but I think that the biggest loss of a player was Lucas, in my opinion. Might have been the best MU team ever.
Quote from: radome on April 30, 2012, 12:52:23 PM
I don't know if going pro counts as a transfer in this sense but I think that the biggest loss of a player was Lucas, in my opinion. Might have been the best MU team ever.
Under this criteria, yeah, Lucas...that was a big loss. DWade, also quite large.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on April 30, 2012, 12:15:16 PM
from a pure talent and dominant standpoint at a position we always need help, it has to be Mbakwe but considering the fact that hed be long gone by now had he stayed at MU there is no saying what player hed actually be.
Wouldn't that be true for Bradley, Mason, Amo or just about any other name in this thead? :D
While we don't know what type of player he'd actually be, I have to think his performance at Miami Dade and Minnesota would represent the floor--I have to think he would have been better off with the attention of the MU coaching staff and our facilities.
If the question is limited to those transfers with eligibiity remaining, I think Maymon or Newbill are the only two worth considering.
If we include all players regardless of eligiblity left, there is no doubt that Mbakwe is the biggest loss. Think of what a dominating inside player would have meant in 2009 (playing ahead of Burke when the Amigos were seniors), 2010 (when we had Hayward playing out of position) and 2011 (when injuries to both Otule and Gardner hampered their effectiveness).
Quote from: radome on April 30, 2012, 12:52:23 PM
I don't know if going pro counts as a transfer in this sense but I think that the biggest loss of a player was Lucas, in my opinion. Might have been the best MU team ever.
Wouldn't Chones be the one under this criteria?
If you are assuming that any transfer who left would have been happy to accept a roll that best fit the team had they stayed than Blankson would be a logical choice. But in reality we went to the Final Four without him so I don't think he is the right answer. I think it is likely, through no fault of his own, that he would have been more disruptive than helpful by taking minutes away from Novak and shots/touches away from Wade/Deiner/Jackson. With all the scorers on that team, a guy who didn't need to score to be happy like Townsend was fine.
I think Karon Bradley is the right answer, as he would have filled a deperate need after Deiner went down and would not have held back other promising players too much, as he would have only by around for on season of James/McNeal/Matthews.
Of the other guys, assuming good health and desire to compete for us, Mbakwe would have been really helpful Buzz's first few years.
Have to go with Mbakwe. Trevor would have helped immensely for MU teams that were vertically challenged on the interior. But, coulda / shoulda as his people wanted him not to play the 5, which is most likely where he would have played at MU had he stayed.
Obviously its Ryan Amoroso, TC wouldn't have the Great Alaska banner without him
Did Chicos invited Amo over for a beer we he went out West?
Quote from: WarriorInDC on April 30, 2012, 01:29:27 PM
Obviously its Ryan Amoroso, TC wouldn't have the Great Alaska banner without him
We also lost Super Mario when Amo left.
A healthy Mbakwe there for the senior year of the Amigos would have been huge. So he is my first choice. Bradley might have been enough to get us into the NCAA tourney when Diener went down, let alone get rolled by Western Michigan. So he is my second choice. ODB hurt, and even though his presence as an athletic 6'7 3-4 certainly would have helped against the Jayhawks, it would not have helped 35 points.
Quote from: lab_warrior on April 30, 2012, 12:59:26 PM
Under this criteria, yeah, Lucas...that was a big loss. DWade, also quite large.
Jim Chones' departure was far more devastating...
Al transferring to Medalist
Quote from: The Equalizer on April 30, 2012, 01:04:05 PM
Wouldn't that be true for Bradley, Mason, Amo or just about any other name in this thead? :D
While we don't know what type of player he'd actually be, I have to think his performance at Miami Dade and Minnesota would represent the floor--I have to think he would have been better off with the attention of the MU coaching staff and our facilities.
If the question is limited to those transfers with eligibiity remaining, I think Maymon or Newbill are the only two worth considering.
If we include all players regardless of eligiblity left, there is no doubt that Mbakwe is the biggest loss. Think of what a dominating inside player would have meant in 2009 (playing ahead of Burke when the Amigos were seniors), 2010 (when we had Hayward playing out of position) and 2011 (when injuries to both Otule and Gardner hampered their effectiveness).
I mentioned Mbakwe because of the fact he is still playing college basketball right now, but had he been with us he wouldnt be here anymore. So it was merely a point that had he never transfered maybe he wouldnt be anywhere near the player he was this year for gophers before the injury.....and hopefully what he will be next year and thats a beast
The idea that either Mason or Bradley leaving hurt is laughable.
Warthog
+1
Jim Chones leaving was biggest departure of all time.
Quote from: Goose on April 30, 2012, 05:46:20 PM
Warthog
+1
Jim Chones leaving was biggest departure of all time.
Marquette was undefeated at 21-0 and ranked #2 in both polls at the time of Chones departure. It was just before the end of the regular season. The first game without Chones Marquette goes out and loses to Detroit....coached by Dick Vitale. How many times has that arsehole mentioned that game since?
Anyhow, we go from contending for a national title just before the tournament to sh1tting bricks. Tough to lose 21 points and almost 13 rebounds per. Huge opportunity lost.
To suggest that Blankston, Bradley, Mason, Amo, et al leaving was anything akin to losing Chones
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 30, 2012, 06:06:09 PM
Marquette was undefeated at 21-0 and ranked #2 in both polls at the time of Chones departure. It was just before the end of the regular season. The first game without Chones Marquette goes out and loses to Detroit....coached by Dick Vitale. How many times has that arsehole mentioned that game since?
Anyhow, we go from contending for a national title just before the tournament to sh1tting bricks. Tough to lose 21 points and almost 13 rebounds per. Huge opportunity lost.
To suggest that Blankston, Bradley, Mason, Amo, et al leaving was anything akin to losing Chones
Absolutely correct. And if I remember my history well enough, Jim's family financial situation was so dire that there wasn't food in the fridge prompting Coach Al to bless the decision to leave early back when it was called 'hardship'. Chones was one of the first nationally.
Quote from: jsglow on April 30, 2012, 07:32:06 PM
Absolutely correct. And if I remember my history well enough, Jim's family financial situation was so dire that there wasn't food in the fridge prompting Coach Al to bless the decision to leave early back when it was called 'hardship'. Chones was one of the first nationally.
Roger Operation Reefer Madness.
Word was that Al went over to JC's apt and asked, "How much they offering you, Jimmy?" After hearing $1.5 million Al asked JC if his mother was still cleaning bathrooms at a hospital. Al then opened JC's reefer and saw essentially nothing. He then told JC to take the money.
Very different than The Bronzed Beast talking DJ out of leaving after his frosh year. Cost Dom millions. Millions.
Quote from: siliconwarrior on April 30, 2012, 09:57:33 AM
Odb - his staying could have translated into a National Championship in 2003...
Nah, numb nuts was still the coach.
Quote from: lurch91 on April 30, 2012, 10:25:52 AM
Blankson and Karon Bradley come to mind. Bradley lead Wichita State to the NCAA's a few years after transferring.
Also, if Karon Bradley had stayed, Marcus Jackson never has to be a point forward, and that embarrassing loss Western Michigan at home in the NIT doesn't happen either.
Nah, numb nuts was still the coach.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 30, 2012, 07:43:57 PM
Nah, numb nuts was still the coach.
The humiliation of that Final Four spanking against KU still stings. On the biggest CBB stage, too.
The Western Michigan debacle stands as a black day in the annals of our storied program. The shame of that drubbing, so soon after the Final Four, begs questions.
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 30, 2012, 07:37:12 PM
Very different than The Bronzed Beast talking DJ out of leaving after his frosh year. Cost Dom millions. Millions.
Amen to that. May we always try to remember that these young men are real human beings with real lives and NOT fantasy players. Hard to always be right but should always try have their long term interest in mind.
Quote from: jsglow on April 30, 2012, 07:49:12 PM
Amen to that. May we always try to remember that these young men are real human beings with real lives and NOT fantasy players. Hard to always be right but should always try have their long term interest in mind.
Crean should be ashamed for what he did to DJ. He was in the Top 15 on the draft boards. The Baked Behemoth talked that young man out of multi-generational financial security. Now, he fights for European table scraps while the Bloomington Blowhard leads post-game chants at Assembly Hall.
Maybe not a hurtful transfer, but DeMarcus Minor had a great career at Baylor after transferring from MU.
A Mike Deane guy?
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 30, 2012, 06:06:09 PM
Marquette was undefeated at 21-0 and ranked #2 in both polls at the time of Chones departure. It was just before the end of the regular season. The first game without Chones Marquette goes out and loses to Detroit....coached by Dick Vitale. How many times has that arsehole mentioned that game since?
Anyhow, we go from contending for a national title just before the tournament to sh1tting bricks. Tough to lose 21 points and almost 13 rebounds per. Huge opportunity lost.
To suggest that Blankston, Bradley, Mason, Amo, et al leaving was anything akin to losing Chones
Chones played 50 games for Marquette and we won 49 of them. The ABA team (can't remember which one) made Jim a take it or leave it offer. It speaks volumes about Al that a) Chones immediately went to him for advice and b) Al put the Jimmy and his family's needs ahead of his own quest for a national title. I'm sure most coaches would have told Chones "The money will still be there after the season". Al wasn't like most coaches.
The only early departure/transfer that can even compare to Chones is Maurice Lucas. The other guys mentioned weren't in their league.
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 30, 2012, 07:54:35 PM
Crean should be ashamed for what he did to DJ. He was in the Top 15 on the draft boards. The Baked Behemoth talked that young man out of multi-generational financial security. Now, he fights for European table scraps while the Bloomington Blowhard leads post-game chants at Assembly Hall.
This is both true and hilarious. First time a post has made me laugh out loud in weeks.
I actually think tyshawn was the one that hurt worst. Imagine having him backing up James in 08 when dj got hurt... We had a legit final four team, especially given our bracket that year.
Post 3 amigos he would have been great with zar, cubi and jimmy... I realize we had success regardless, but still think that set us back a few years...
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on April 30, 2012, 05:13:33 PM
I mentioned Mbakwe because of the fact he is still playing college basketball right now, but had he been with us he wouldnt be here anymore. So it was merely a point that had he never transfered maybe he wouldnt be anywhere near the player he was this year for gophers before the injury.....and hopefully what he will be next year and thats a beast
I'm not talking about 2011-12, so I'm not sure where the injury comes into play.
2007-08: Freshman: Mbakwe is at MU, Injury year
2008-09: Would have been a Soph at MU, instead plays the season at Miami Dade
2009-10: Junior at MU, instead Sits out the season.
2010-11: Senior at MU, instead a junior at Minny--Not injured, Plays all 31 games, averages 31 mpg, 13.9 ppg, 10.5 rpg
If I understand you correctly, you question whether Mbakwe would have developed anywhere near what he reached in 10-11 had he stayed at MU. (One year of Miami Dade + one year sitting out + one year of Tubby) is better for development than three solid years under Buzz? Sorry, but I don't buy it.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on April 30, 2012, 11:48:40 AM
Fact.
ODB transfer hurt the most by far as we would have one the national title. The upgrade over Townsend who was the weak link of that team factors in huge.
Opinion.
There is no way of knowing with ODB if other players develop or even play. Players that were key to our success in 2003, including Novak. ODB was a selfish player that left because he wanted to play at a certain position. We do not know if he stayed if the selfishness and the desire to be the man would have cratered the team.
Scott Christopherson. It would have been nice to have had his perimeter scoring and 3 point shooting this season, especially when we went on those pitiful scoring droughts.
Quote from: flash on April 30, 2012, 11:06:02 PM
Scott Christopherson. It would have been nice to have had his perimeter scoring and 3 point shooting this season, especially when we went on those pitiful scoring droughts.
He wouldn't have been here this season - had he stayed at MU his eligibility would have been used up in 2010-11.
Roman Mueller
Two words: Alton. Mason.
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 30, 2012, 06:06:09 PM
To suggest that Blankston, Bradley, Mason, Amo, et al leaving was anything akin to losing Chones
I don't think anyone does equate those guys with Chones. Chones didn't transfer to another school, so I think most people didn't consider him relevant to the discussion.
Earlier I said Bradley was the one I thought hurt the most. I stand by that because watching us try to play basketball without a PG was excruciating.
The truth is, I don't think any of the guys that transferred out hurt us all that much. Mbakwe would have had to stay healthy, Maymon was never gonna reach his potential here for non-basketball reasons, and some of the other guys that left were solid but not necessarily a good fit for us and were better off leaving. Also, nothing occurs in a vacuum. Every departure opened a door for another player. For example, if Maymon stays, maybe Crowder doesn't come. So we lost a good player and were able to replace him with a better one. I feel better about about Buzz replacing transfers with quality than I did with Crean.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on April 30, 2012, 12:15:16 PM
from a pure talent and dominant standpoint at a position we always need help, it has to be Mbakwe but considering the fact that hed be long gone by now had he stayed at MU there is no saying what player hed actually be.
A real inside presence to play with the three amigos their last year? Definitely Mbakwe. Done.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 30, 2012, 10:51:07 AM
If we had lost by 2 or 5 or even 8 to Kansas, I could see making the argument that ODB's presence might have made a difference, but thinking he could have caused a 35 point swing is wishful thinking.
+10000000000000000000000000
After the Pitt and Kentucky games in Minneapolis in 2003, be began believing our own press clippings. The edge that we had in Minneapolis gave way to an overconfidence against Kansas that was exploited to the hilt. We looked like my grade school team playing the Los Angeles Lakers or something.
If there was ever a moment where I thought TV Tommy was badly out-coached, it was in the Final Four against Kansas. Our guys just weren't ready for the challenge before them. They somehow forgot that videotape had found its way to Kansas and that, gee, they saw what DWade did to Kentucky.
ODB might of helped, but he was not by himself going to get us to the promised land.
NO
Chones left for the ABA. He didn't transfer.
Incidentally, I would argue that if you are going the Chones route, then you also ought to be thinking Maurice Lucas leaving for the ABA in 1974. We were coming off the NCAA Championship in 1973-1974 and had all the pieces back, plus Butch Lee. We were primed for another run to the Final Four when Lucas cut the heart out of that team.
There was some waivering and Marquette was ready to go to court to enjoin the NCAA from prohibiting Lucas from playing -- and then it all fell apart.
Quote from: Shooter Flatch on May 01, 2012, 12:02:34 AM
Roman Mueller
He transferred? On bad days, I wonder if he's still there.
Biggest sleeper since Rip Van Winkle.
Quote from: CTWarrior on May 01, 2012, 09:31:28 AM
I don't think anyone does equate those guys with Chones. Chones didn't transfer to another school, so I think most people didn't consider him relevant to the discussion.
I think Lenny and I opened up the definition to player departing for whatever reason. Both Chones and Lucas left early and their departures crippled strong teams that were poised to win it all.
Another early departure was Larry McNeill. Al often said The Hawk was his greatest player ever. It is ridiculous the amount of talent Al brought in to MU. The goddam ABA derailed what could have been a much more significant run.
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 30, 2012, 07:54:35 PM
Crean should be ashamed for what he did to DJ. He was in the Top 15 on the draft boards. The Baked Behemoth talked that young man out of multi-generational financial security. Now, he fights for European table scraps while the Bloomington Blowhard leads post-game chants at Assembly Hall.
You're assuming an awful lot in this post.
I think it's tough to say, but here are my thoughts on the five biggest losses of the past decade or so.
Blankson: That Final Four team was our best of the past 34 years, and would have been better with Blankson. We can debate all day about how other guys would have developed, but Wade coexisted with him for a year and would have again. I liked Townsend, but he was no ODB. I don't know if we would have won the NC, but we certainly would have fared better against Kansas with him in the lineup (though as mentioned, 35 points is a big swing). I imagine he would have helped us get back to the NCAAs as another option for the 2003-04 team.
Christopherson: I think it's important to take the context of when he'd have been here. First, he'd barely have sniffed the court in 2008-09 as a sophomore behind the Amigos. He would have got time in 09-10, but that team didn't need another three-point shooter. Would he have helped? Yeah, but he wouldn't have radically changed that team. Where he would have helped most is in 10-11, when we could have used another shooter and someone who could take some of the PG role that Junior wasn't quite ready for and Buycks wasn't quite suited for. But does he make that team Elite Eight? I don't think so. Sad to see him go, but I really do think this worked out best for both parties.
Mbakwe: If you're talking strictly talents, this might be the biggest loss. We lost three years of a guy at a position that was highly needed. He would have likely started as an undersized center for two years, but been better than Burke in 2008-09 and bigger (and better suited for the position) than Lazar in 2009-10. He also would have given us some length and athleticism inside that was missing against UNC in 2011. Still think we lose that game, though.
Mason: Surprised he hasn't been mentioned more, I think his move worked out badly for both sides. Mason never reached the potential he was starting to scratch (11.9/5.6 as a soph) after getting to LSU and Marquette could have used another experienced scorer with Novak. Of course, the Amigos stepped in admirably from day one, but the pressure would have been less with Mason still around, and Crean might have made it out of the first weekend one of those two years with Mason in the lineup.
Bradley: Of the five guys I'm going to mention, I think this is the biggest loss. Diener's injury in 04-05 was backbreaking and having Bradley around would have certainly made that more manageable, and I think we'd have made the tournament. We went 14-4 before his injury and 5-8 after it. He played in 5 of those 13 games and nearly got us a bid back (going 3-2), but that team was woeful without him. Bradley would have been a big difference maker. I also think he would have helped the Amigos, especially James, who despite being excellent from day one, might have had a better development curve if he had been able to learn behind Bradley for a year.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 01, 2012, 10:21:56 AM
I think it's tough to say, but here are my thoughts on the five biggest losses of the past decade or so.
Blankson: That Final Four team was our best of the past 34 years, and would have been better with Blankson. We can debate all day about how other guys would have developed, but Wade coexisted with him for a year and would have again. I liked Townsend, but he was no ODB. I don't know if we would have won the NC, but we certainly would have fared better against Kansas with him in the lineup (though as mentioned, 35 points is a big swing). I imagine he would have helped us get back to the NCAAs as another option for the 2003-04 team.
Christopherson: I think it's important to take the context of when he'd have been here. First, he'd barely have sniffed the court in 2008-09 as a sophomore behind the Amigos. He would have got time in 09-10, but that team didn't need another three-point shooter. Would he have helped? Yeah, but he wouldn't have radically changed that team. Where he would have helped most is in 10-11, when we could have used another shooter and someone who could take some of the PG role that Junior wasn't quite ready for and Buycks wasn't quite suited for. But does he make that team Elite Eight? I don't think so. Sad to see him go, but I really do think this worked out best for both parties.
Mbakwe: If you're talking strictly talents, this might be the biggest loss. We lost three years of a guy at a position that was highly needed. He would have likely started as an undersized center for two years, but been better than Burke in 2008-09 and bigger (and better suited for the position) than Lazar in 2009-10. He also would have given us some length and athleticism inside that was missing against UNC in 2011. Still think we lose that game, though.
Mason: Surprised he hasn't been mentioned more, I think his move worked out badly for both sides. Mason never reached the potential he was starting to scratch (11.9/5.6 as a soph) after getting to LSU and Marquette could have used another experienced scorer with Novak. Of course, the Amigos stepped in admirably from day one, but the pressure would have been less with Mason still around, and Crean might have made it out of the first weekend one of those two years with Mason in the lineup.
Bradley: Of the five guys I'm going to mention, I think this is the biggest loss. Diener's injury in 04-05 was backbreaking and having Bradley around would have certainly made that more manageable, and I think we'd have made the tournament. We went 14-4 before his injury and 5-8 after it. He played in 5 of those 13 games and nearly got us a bid back (going 3-2), but that team was woeful without him. Bradley would have been a big difference maker. I also think he would have helped the Amigos, especially James, who despite being excellent from day one, might have had a better development curve if he had been able to learn behind Bradley for a year.
A very well thought out post for the first 80%. I particularly agree with your assessment of "point blanken" Mbakwe. Then you have to go and say Bradley was the biggest loss! He was a very good, but short, two guard. He just did not have point skills. He was a sub six foot guard who really could fill the hoop in HS to the tune of 35 points or so a game. His failure to develop point skills is the reason he didn't get PT at MU and transferred. At Wichita State he was allowed to play his game, and was able to really contribute. MU would have been far worse off trying to have Karon bring the ball up the court instead of Jackson, IMO.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 01, 2012, 10:21:56 AM
I think it's tough to say, but here are my thoughts on the five biggest losses of the past decade or so.
Blankson: That Final Four team was our best of the past 34 years, and would have been better with Blankson. We can debate all day about how other guys would have developed, but Wade coexisted with him for a year and would have again. I liked Townsend, but he was no ODB. I don't know if we would have won the NC, but we certainly would have fared better against Kansas with him in the lineup (though as mentioned, 35 points is a big swing). I imagine he would have helped us get back to the NCAAs as another option for the 2003-04 team.
I just don't get how this ludicrous idea is parroted so often in this thread.
Do people willfully ignore that the performance by Kansas that night was one of the greatest Roy Williams has ever coached? Do they willfully ignore a career game from Langford? Do they willfully ignore an unstoppable secondary break from perhaps the best coach ever to teach the secondary break? Do they willfully ignore that Kansas' NBA draft picks were experienced upperclassmen whereas our NBA draft picks were two Freshmen and a second year player?
MU hung with that squad for seven minutes and got embarrassed for 33 minutes. ODB wasn't going to help the cause against a "pinnacle" performance as mentioned by Roy Boy. Frankly, I'm not sure had Kentucky (who was clearly the best team in the land that season) beat MU that they'd be able to beat Kansas on the night.
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 30, 2012, 07:54:35 PM
Crean should be ashamed for what he did to DJ. He was in the Top 15 on the draft boards. The Baked Behemoth talked that young man out of multi-generational financial security. Now, he fights for European table scraps while the Bloomington Blowhard leads post-game chants at Assembly Hall.
Regardless where DJ would have been drafted, I think it's ironic that Tyshawn Taylor list one reason he didn't come to MU was that Crean told him (Taylor) that DJ was leaving school after his junior year and Taylor would have the starting PG position all to himself.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on May 01, 2012, 10:48:51 AMI just don't get how this ludicrous idea is parroted so often in this thread.
Do people willfully ignore that the performance by Kansas that night was one of the greatest Roy Williams has ever coached? Do they willfully ignore a career game from Langford? Do they willfully ignore an unstoppable secondary break from perhaps the best coach ever to teach the secondary break? Do they willfully ignore that Kansas' NBA draft picks were experienced upperclassmen whereas our NBA draft picks were two Freshmen and a second year player?
Well...to be fair I made sure to mention 35 points was a big swing. I think we'd have done better, but unlike others, I'm not at all convinced we'd have won. All I'm saying is we aren't 35 point losers, not that we're winners.
Quote from: LittleMurs on May 01, 2012, 10:45:58 AM
A very well thought out post for the first 80%. I particularly agree with your assessment of "point blanken" Mbakwe. Then you have to go and say Bradley was the biggest loss! He was a very good, but short, two guard. He just did not have point skills. He was a sub six foot guard who really could fill the hoop in HS to the tune of 35 points or so a game. His failure to develop point skills is the reason he didn't get PT at MU and transferred. At Wichita State he was allowed to play his game, and was able to really contribute. MU would have been far worse off trying to have Karon bring the ball up the court instead of Jackson, IMO.
He wouldn't have been a perfect PG, but he certainly improved in that regard at WSU, averaging a 1.6/1 A/T ratio. Not perfect, but an improvement. I think what we get out of Bradley staying is another NCAA berth. I suppose an argument could be made for any of them, but we were exposed without Diener. Marcus did fine considering, but that was not an ideal role for him, and the W/L record supported it.
ODB vs Jim Chones???