Over the years we have had some great Juco and transfers and was curious on who is the best of all. I think the '77 team had four guys that did not start their careers at MU and all played big roles in helping us win. Really think that again shows how far ahead of the curve Al was in all aspects of the game.
While he was not our best transfer ever but I really, really like David Boone. For a guy way undersized he was a joy to watch rebound. As to Juco's Artie Green, again not the best, was my favorite. Honestly I would be hard pressed to say who best transfer of all time is because list is impressive.
Toss up between Dan Fitzgerald and Mike Kinsella.
Transfer: Roney Eford
JUCO: Lloyd Walton
Juco: tie Bob Lackey and Jerome Whitehead
Transfer: Jim Boylan
Gotta put J in there too.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 22, 2012, 07:10:02 PM
Transfer: Roney Eford
JUCO: Lloyd Walton
Eford came from a prep school. Does that make him a transfer?
4ever
Wasn't Eford a four year guy? Lucky Lloyd was special. Was Whitehead transfer or Juco?
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 07:13:38 PM
4ever
Wasn't Eford a four year guy? Lucky Lloyd was special. Was Whitehead transfer or Juco?
JUCO
Robert Jackson?
Worthen was pretty good get and badly needed at when he arrived.
Sam Worthen was a JUCO I believe
Eford came from U of A and Al stashed J at Saddleback to play for his pal Bill Mulligan
Quote from: romey on April 22, 2012, 07:15:19 PM
Sam Worthen was a JUCO I believe
He was scary good.
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 07:15:02 PM
Worthen was pretty good get and badly needed at when he arrived.
Goose you beat me by 17 seconds
Quote from: real chili 83 on April 22, 2012, 07:16:05 PM
He was scary good.
"Scary" is a good way to put it. Kinda "Sam Cassell-ish"
Mulligan was a nice friend to the program over the years. He loved Al and we made out like bandits from the friendship. I think Eford was prep school and four years here but 4ever sounds confident.
Quote from: romey on April 22, 2012, 07:15:19 PM
Sam Worthen was a JUCO I believe
Sam the Sham attended McLennan
Quote from: ODMU238 on April 22, 2012, 07:14:54 PM
Robert Jackson?
Yeah, isn't this the answer......easily?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 22, 2012, 07:15:57 PM
Eford came from U of A and Al stashed J at Saddleback to play for his pal Bill Mulligan
You're thinking Ron Curry I believe...
Hate to say it but 4ever does have the best knowledge of the program over past 45 years. Not saying others do not know their crap but 4ever really knows it.
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 07:18:30 PM
Mulligan was a nice friend to the program over the years. He loved Al and we made out like bandits from the friendship. I think Eford was prep school and four years here but 4ever sounds confident.
You are right. Have Eford confused with the dude from Bloomfield Illinois who came with Kevin
Quote from: JWags85 on April 22, 2012, 07:23:47 PM
You're thinking Ron Curry I believe...
That's him. I f*cked up, major.
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 07:25:21 PM
Hate to say it but 4ever does have the best knowledge of the program over past 45 years. Not saying others do not know their crap but 4ever really knows it.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 22, 2012, 07:26:37 PM
That's him. I f*cked up, major.
4ever should start writing a book before all that knowledge starts dissipating.
Bob Jackson. As far as JUCOS, I'll defer to 4ever, but for chrissakes, DJO and Jae are in the team picture.
Thanks for blowing Eford post 4ever. I just jerked you off saying the best on here and then you blow it. Only feel badly because you blew my high level of credibility on here that took me months to achieve. LabWarrior was starting to think I was not a troll, Benny B and Madtown just starting to think I was not here to stir the pot and then you blow it for me.
Keith Stewart
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 07:35:24 PM
Thanks for blowing Eford post 4ever. I just jerked you off saying the best on here and then you blow it. Only feel badly because you blew my high level of credibility on here that took me months to achieve. LabWarrior was starting to think I was not a troll, Benny B and Madtown just starting to think I was not here to stir the pot and then you blow it for me.
Sorry man, I owe you.
Make it to me by telling some really good '70's cheerleader stories.
If not Keith Stewart, what about Mike Davis?
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 07:44:04 PM
Make it to me by telling some really good '70's cheerleader stories.
Did I ever tell you 'bout the time Luke was in MJG's hotel room in Dayton?
Trent Locket.
Roney Eford's prep school was New Hampton (N.H.) Prep
4ever
What happens in Dayton stays in Dayton. I have a feeling no matter where Luke was he was in control of the situation. Would have to think Llloyd and BT had their moments. Remember BT during warmups and he spent more time setting up getting laid after game then he did warming up.
Quote from: THEultimateWARRIOR on April 22, 2012, 07:51:45 PM
Trent Locket.
Regarding transfer outs....we should have Bo'd John Ellenson, we he left to go to Wisky. Althought that 6-8, 230 plodding frame was better suited for that program.
Best transfer ever.........Rod Grosse to points unknown
Gary the Goose Brell from UWM.
Best transfer in was.........not Walter Downing, but let's get him in the team picture.
Quote from: mutrainer71 on April 22, 2012, 07:58:01 PM
Gary the Goose Brell from UWM.
UP from Ohio U. Don't overlook Ed Daniels either
Good call on Sir Walter and better call on the real Goose. Had very high hopes for Walter and still pulled for him until the end of his run.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 22, 2012, 08:00:36 PM
UP from Ohio U. Don't overlook Ed Daniels either
For those of you who graduated after 1980, Ulice Payne.
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 08:00:48 PM
Good call on Sir Walter and better call on the real Goose. Had very high hopes for Walter and still pulled for him until the end of his run.
Ranked top five coming out of HS, I believe.
Murray, you're old
Might surprise some of you but Sir Walter, Mandy and DJ took95% of our classes together. Walter was big time in HS and should have been here to star this career.
Walter was a huge name, but he never really panned out, IMO. RJackson had a bigger impact than Downing. Another example of how close those teams were under Majerus in 84-85 and 85-86. Downing, Copa, Trotter, Mandy Johnson, Benny Moore, David Boone, Kevin Johnson, Benny Moore.......man. Never seemed to get over the hump and get the big win. Came so close against UNC, but when that one got away, the death spiral ensued.
Jim Boylan. Was the missing piece. PG on the National Championship team. Discussion over.
My 'starting 5':
Whitehead
Crowder
Eford
Worthen
Walton
I'd go to battle with that group any day and twice on Sunday.
Quote from: jsglow on April 22, 2012, 08:19:08 PM
My 'starting 5':
Whitehead
Crowder
Eford
Worthen
Walton
I'd go to battle with that group any day and twice on Sunday.
With DJO as the 6th man. Bring it on.
To delve into this is to acknowledge that MU has always had transfers, roster transition, accepted JUCO's. Maybe we had better back down a little before anyone starts feeling squirmy.
Quote from: real chili 83 on April 22, 2012, 08:20:45 PM
With DJO as the 6th man. Bring it on.
And Mr. Jackson coming in as the 'big'.
Quote from: tower912 on April 22, 2012, 08:23:33 PM
To delve into this is to acknowledge that MU has always had transfers, roster transition, accepted JUCO's. Maybe we had better back down a little before anyone starts feeling squirmy.
Maybe Fr. P and Larry need to read scoop.
Transfer - Jim Dudley (at least for one game ;))
I will agree that if they are serious in what they are rumored to believe, then they have seriously misjudged just how integral basketball is to MU's identity.
Al was trendsetter across the board. He was the first or the leader in almost everything that is college basketball . Part of the reason I started this thread was to point out how rich our history is in taking transfers and Juco's. Anyone with a problem with this does not know our history.
here we go AGAIN - really?
Quote from: tower912 on April 22, 2012, 08:28:48 PM
I will agree that if they are serious in what they are rumored to believe, then they have seriously misjudged just how integral basketball is to MU's identity.
I'll give you an 'amen', brother goose.
Hey guys
Madtown is here....let's talk later.
Jamil.... 8-)
gee - why can't I be a part of the "trust me, my sources say Larry Williams and Fr Pilarz are trying to return MU to SLU level circle jerk"
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 08:36:59 PM
Hey guys
Madtown is here....let's talk later.
Buzz saw
Shame on us old guys. He might go down the best of them all.
Hey, I think it is balderdash. If it isn't....if they really want to de-emphasize hoops, they are in error.
Madtown
We are in the middle of a basketball conversation and do you mind waiting until finished. You can save your witty circle jerk lines until we have signed off for the night it would be appreciated.
Back on topic.... can we have a team of Downing, Jamil, JFB, DJO, and Kevin Johnson take them on. Would be a fun scrimmage.
whatever... I'll go back to waiting for Hiroshima...
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 08:46:18 PM
Madtown
We are in the middle of a basketball conversation and do you mind waiting until finished. You can save your witty circle jerk lines until we have signed off for the night it would be appreciated.
David Boone
Quote from: Goose on April 22, 2012, 08:43:43 PM
Buzz saw
Shame on us old guys. He might go down the best of them all.
Jamil is set up for a pretty nice career:
Sophomore: Key player in a sweet 16 season and #10 ranking.
Junior: Could potentially be one of the guys that annually steps up. Good chance of top 25 team.
Senior: Could potentially be a star player. Assertive and heady on both ends. Potential Final Four team or more.
I think that career is a real possibility. He and MU have a good chance at that IMO.
Quote from: Boone on April 22, 2012, 08:56:30 PM
David Boone
I had turned off the computer for the night and thought of this one and turned the damn thing back on just to find that someone else remembered him. He was a good one. Lazar and Jae before it was cool.
Quote from: TheBuzzsaw on April 22, 2012, 09:02:46 PM
Jamil is set up for a pretty nice career:
Sophomore: Key player in a sweet 16 season and #10 ranking.
Junior: Could potentially be one of the guys that annually steps up. Good chance of top 25 team.
Senior: Could potentially be a star player. Assertive and heady on both ends. Potential Final Four team or more.
I think that career is a real possibility. He and MU have a good chance at that IMO.
Marquette will never have a "good chance" at a Final Four and beyond. Even the best teams in an average year don't even have over a 50% chance of making a Final Four. To predict a good chance of a Final Four 2 years down the road next year is a bit risky. If Buzz leaves next year do Burton and Wilson show up? Mayo, Blue test the NBA? The Taylors transfer? We could miss the NCAA Tournament if Buzz leaves. I would put our chances of making a Final Four over the next 2 years at less than 8%. It takes a ridiculously talented team and a ton more luck to reach those heights.
Depends who's on the short list?
Quote from: KipsBayEagle on April 22, 2012, 07:23:34 PM
Yeah, isn't this the answer......easily?
Yes. Absolutely, yes.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 22, 2012, 09:33:29 PM
Marquette will never have a "good chance" at a Final Four and beyond. Even the best teams in an average year don't even have over a 50% chance of making a Final Four. To predict a good chance of a Final Four 2 years down the road next year is a bit risky. If Buzz leaves next year do Burton and Wilson show up? Mayo, Blue test the NBA? The Taylors transfer? We could miss the NCAA Tournament if Buzz leaves. I would put our chances of making a Final Four over the next 2 years at less than 8%. It takes a ridiculously talented team and a ton more luck to reach those heights.
Settle down. I never said MU has an over 50% chance of a Final Four. I said there is a good chance of
potentially being a Final Four team. BIG difference.
Quote from: TheBuzzsaw on April 22, 2012, 09:56:02 PM
Settle down. I never said MU has an over 50% chance of a Final Four. I said there is a good chance of potentially being a Final Four team. BIG difference.
Of course you said potentially being a Final Four team. You're talking about the 2014 season. This isn't the past, you can't possibly know we are a Final Four team in 2014 until after the season ends. I get that you were saying the team is potentially a Final Four team. Your entire post was all potentials. I am saying there is not a "good chance" of that potential being realized for Marquette, like you said in your post there was.
Our best transfer, a guy who helped a good team become a Final Four team, is an easy choice for me: Robert Jackson.
Best JUCO ... several to choose, each with a strong claim. Bob Lackey was an intimidating stud. Jae Crowder followed up a season as a valuable contributor on a Sweet 16 team to being one of the best players in the entire nation and leading another Sweet 16 run. Darius Johnson-Odom was a consistent scorer and really tough dude for three years. Jerome Whitehead played center on our one and only national championship team, hitting the winning bucket to get us to the title game; he went on to have the second-best FG pct in school history. Jimmy Butler was an outstanding defender, clutch scorer who used hard work to turn himself into a first-round draft pick. Lloyd Walton and Sam Worthen were two of the best point guards in school history.
For individual accomplishment, I'd go with Jae. For impact on a special team, Whitehead.
Best transfers: Jim Boylan and Jerome Whitehead. They were part of and lead MU to the National Championship.
All other transfers should be "which was the most talented". To answer that, I go with Lloyd Walton and Sam Worthen.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 22, 2012, 08:18:22 PM
Jim Boylan. Was the missing piece. PG on the National Championship team. Discussion over.
Agree. Might have led us to two in a row if the imfamous Peter Pavia had not called a flagrant on Whitehead followed by tech's on Whitehead and Hank to steat the Miami (Ohio) game.
Jim was from tiny Assumption College and wanted to transfer to N Carolina. Dean Smith didn't take transfers (unless your name was Bob McAdoo) so he recommended Jim to Al. All Boylan does is beat Dean in the national championship game. Sweet.
Quote from: jsglow on April 22, 2012, 08:19:08 PM
My 'starting 5':
Whitehead
Crowder
Eford
Worthen
Walton
I'd go to battle with that group any day and twice on Sunday.
Sorry, Eford does not qualify since he was neither a JUCO or a transfer, forever's Alzheimer's nothwithstanding.
Quote from: tower912 on April 22, 2012, 08:28:48 PM
I will agree that if they are serious in what they are rumored to believe, then they have seriously misjudged just how integral basketball is to MU's identity.
BOT, time to step in here, people.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on April 22, 2012, 08:42:53 PM
gee - why can't I be a part of the "trust me, my sources say Larry Williams and Fr Pilarz are trying to return MU to SLU level circle jerk"
Don't feel bad Madtown, It ain't the meat, its the motion.
Got to be Gary Brell, the real deal Goose. He played ball at the University of North Dakota under legendary coach Bill Fitch and with Phil Jackson.
Ric Majerus brought the home boy back to play for the Warriors--he did have a cup o' coffee at UWM but did not play.
After sitting out the year he joined MU and helped fill the hole in the lineup when Brute Force graduated.
Bama has penciled in the numbers; in the two years Goose played, the Warrriors racked up winning percentages among the highest in Marquette history.
Quite the team with Dean the Dream.
Goose also had etiquette, pulling out the switchblade in the Garden to cut the nets after pounding the Johnies for the NIT crown.
Played for Fitch and played for Al, for my money the best transfer of all.
Quote from: Boone on April 22, 2012, 08:56:30 PM
David Boone
Quote from: tower912 on April 22, 2012, 09:05:06 PM
I had turned off the computer for the night and thought of this one and turned the damn thing back on just to find that someone else remembered him. He was a good one. Lazar and Jae before it was cool.
Actually, if you go back to the start, Boone was the first name mentioned in the first post by Goose.
From St. Mary's in California.
great thread, scary how knowledgeble 4ever seems..., or is he looking em up? I thought his alzheimers was at about the same progression as mine.
interesting how we never thought of them as transfers, only aware of the jucos when the urinal made comment on them. Bob Lackey (black swan) was one of my faves, especially after the fight with NMich. which I have it on pretty good info was started by Izzo after an elbow. Actually told the coach in a timeout huddle that he was going to slug someone if he got another elbow.
Quote from: LittleMurs on April 22, 2012, 07:54:22 PM
Roney Eford's prep school was New Hampton (N.H.) Prep
Eford prepped at Maine Central Institue in Pittsfield, Maine.
Quote from: augoman on April 23, 2012, 12:36:51 AM
great thread, scary how knowledgeble 4ever seems..., or is he looking em up? I thought his alzheimers was at about the same progression as mine.
interesting how we never thought of them as transfers, only aware of the jucos when the urinal made comment on them. Bob Lackey (black swan) was one of my faves, especially after the fight with NMich. which I have it on pretty good info was started by Izzo after an elbow. Actually told the coach in a timeout huddle that he was going to slug someone if he got another elbow.
Lackey and Izzo never played against each other as Izzo's career at NMU was 1973-1977 and Lackey graduated following the 1971-1972 season.
A list of significant transfers needs to include Jerry Holman. Sat-out the 1972-1973 season as a transfer from U of Detroit.
Jerry bailed us out in the 1974 Mideast Regional Final victory against Michigan(w/ Campy Russell and C.J. Kupec) when Maurice Lucas fouled out.
The following season(1974-1975) he stepped in as our 5 when Lucas went hardship to the A.B.A.
SweetAlaska
Said like someone that knows his stuff. Would have to say the real Goose was quite the player and character. You are correct on the winning percentage being among the all time best, but the switchblade might have been cooler than all the wins combine.
Quote from: SweetAlaska on April 22, 2012, 10:49:36 PM
Got to be Gary Brell, the real deal Goose. He played ball at the University of North Dakota under legendary coach Bill Fitch and with Phil Jackson.
Ric Majerus brought the home boy back to play for the Warriors--he did have a cup o' coffee at UWM but did not play.
After sitting out the year he joined MU and helped fill the hole in the lineup when Brute Force graduated.
Bama has penciled in the numbers; in the two years Goose played, the Warrriors racked up winning percentages among the highest in Marquette history.
Quite the team with Dean the Dream.
Goose also had etiquette, pulling out the switchblade in the Garden to cut the nets after pounding the Johnies for the NIT crown.
Played for Fitch and played for Al, for my money the best transfer of all.
Didn't he play his HS ball at Pius XI?
Goose was a Pope and followed By Gre "The Pope" Johnson to MU a few years later.
Rob Jackson
Quote from: Goose on April 23, 2012, 07:51:37 AM
Goose was a Pope and followed By Gre "The Pope" Johnson to MU a few years later.
Let's not forget " Don" Gary Grzeszk and the all time Kojis from ND. In fact, the Catholic Conference schools produced quite a few MU players. St. Kate's Rocke Calvelli and Chones immediately come to mind. And how about Allie McGuire, and Rosenberger from MUHS! More? There are.
One of my all time favorites was Jerry Homan. Loved when Al said "a year ago I had no idea how we would win with him and now I do not know how we will win without him". Can also add Rick's recruit of Pat Foley from MUHS.
John Mueller is from MUHS, as well.
Was Damon Key from MUHS?
Damon was a 'topper.
MUHS was the Hilltoppers, Pius XI the Popes, what was Notre Dame?
ATWiz
Too young to remember ND. What was their handle?
David Boone. Everyone else is lining up for 2nd place.
Best JUCO...got to go with Jae.
Quote from: Goose on April 23, 2012, 10:14:21 AM
ATWiz
Too young to remember ND. What was their handle?
Cannot remember. If it comes to me I'll let you know. I do remember their colors were red and white. Anybody else out there help?
Quote from: PJDunn on April 23, 2012, 10:21:23 AM
David Boone. Everyone else is lining up for 2nd place.
Hmmm. I'll go with Robert Jackson, who was instrumental in MU lining up for fourth place in the entire nation.
Quote from: MU82 on April 23, 2012, 11:45:22 AM
Hmmm. I'll go with Robert Jackson, who was instrumental in MU lining up for fourth place in the entire nation.
Boylan. Instrumental in MU lining up for first place in the entire nation.
I like how Boylan and Jackson proponents use the NCAA Title and Final Four, respectively, to bolster their arguments.
The fact that Brell and Boone gets love makes me want to see some old tape!
So where are the older games for viewing?!
Boone was a stud and a great guy to boot. If he does not have a nagging groin injury towards the end of the '85/'86 campaign we go to the tourney.
RJax was a nice role player. His success was partly a function of his supporting cast.
Just my biased opinion. Fun discussion.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 23, 2012, 11:55:21 AM
Boylan. Instrumental in MU lining up for first place in the entire nation.
Big fan of Boylan. And Boone, for that matter.
As for Robert Jackson, I guess one could call him a role player ... in that everyone not named D-Wade was a role player on that team. At 15.4 points and 7.5 rebs per game, shooting 56 percent from the floor and giving MU its first true center in years (or even decades), that's the kind of role player I wish we'd get lots and lots and lots more of.
Quote from: RealChiliWarrior on April 23, 2012, 02:00:41 AM
Eford prepped at Maine Central Institue in Pittsfield, Maine.
Nope, he went to prep school at New Hampton (N.H.) Prep, as per the bio on his website.
http://www.roneyefordbasketball.com/bio.html (http://www.roneyefordbasketball.com/bio.html)
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 23, 2012, 08:05:12 AM
Let's not forget " Don" Gary Grzeszk and the all time Kojis from ND. In fact, the Catholic Conference schools produced quite a few MU players. St. Kate's Rocke Calvelli and Chones immediately come to mind. And how about Allie McGuire, and Rosenberger from MUHS! More? There are.
Uh, Bill Neary.
And that other Marquette U High walkon, Rick Majerus.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 22, 2012, 07:43:54 PM
Really? Cat fell asleep on the pines.
Keith Stewart should have been in teal.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 22, 2012, 10:37:44 PM
Jim was from tiny Assumption College and wanted to transfer to N Carolina. Dean Smith didn't take transfers (unless your name was Bob McAdoo) so he recommended Jim to Al. All Boylan does is beat Dean in the national championship game.
I'm with Lenny - Boylan took us to the promised land. Best transfer? Not sure. Most strategic? Absolutely.
Best JUCo would be Jerome Whitehead. Prototypical Aircraft Carrier - Al coined the term when referring to J. Pretty strong endorsement.
Whitehead was the coolest cat. Shortly after returning from Atlanta in '77 all the team members were sporting sealskin jackets. Rosenberger had a waist length, most had regular coat length, but Whitehead had ankle length seal skin. With that coat, his gradated shades, afro and imperturbable expression he was the nuts on the boulevard.
Warthog
They were all decked out in awfully cool jackets. Are you sure seal or sheepskin?
Quote from: Goose on April 23, 2012, 05:37:51 PM
Warthog
They were all decked out in awfully cool jackets. Are you sure seal or sheepskin?
Sealskin! 100% certain. This was in the very early days of seal clubbing outrage so they had no qualms about donning such exquisite finery. Personally, given the number of hooked salmon I have lost to seals over the years, I have no issue with seal skin clothing.
One has to wonder how the guys all got together and decided to walk down to Boston Store to pick out their seal skin jackets?
Not saying best ever BUT.......I think DJO belongs in the conversation.
NCAA bound all 3 years including back-to-back Sweet 16's. As a senior was First Team All Big East and was a fraction of a point from being the Big East scoring champ (only to lose the title to the best Big East Player of ALL TIME!)
As a Junior was Second Team All Big East.
Put up damn good stats all 3 years and was a BIG part in all of the success.
The 1976 & 1977 teams and the 2011 & 12 teams are the only two groups of teams who have won at least their two NCAA games to advance--back to back. Both teams were fueled by JUCO's and transfer-ins.
Careful with the squirmy sacrilege, Doc.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 24, 2012, 09:57:30 AM
The 1976 & 1977 teams and the 2011 & 12 teams are the only two groups of teams who have won at least their two NCAA games to advance--back to back. Both teams were fueled by JUCO's and transfer-ins.
As were many of John Wooden's UCLA National champion teams.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 24, 2012, 09:57:30 AM
The 1976 & 1977 teams and the 2011 & 12 teams are the only two groups of teams who have won at least their two NCAA games to advance--back to back. Both teams were fueled by JUCO's and transfer-ins.
This puts my thinking on recruiting in a new light. JUCOs and transfer are not the way to begin building a team, but they are the best way of finishing. Once you see the weaknesses from the base you recruited, you fill in with mature players.
Quote from: LittleMurs on April 24, 2012, 01:18:25 PM
This puts my thinking on recruiting in a new light. JUCOs and transfer are not the way to begin building a team, but they are the best way of finishing. Once you see the weaknesses from the base you recruited, you fill in with mature players.
Bob Knight's last championship team (87?) was led by two jucos - may have been the only ones he ever had at I4.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 24, 2012, 01:30:30 PM
Bob Knight's last championship team (87?) was led by two jucos - may have been the only ones he ever had at I4.
You're right - Keith Smart and Dean Garrett were both JuCOs. Knight had no problem with JUCOs and said so on TV as an analyst. He commented that without Smart and Garrett there is no ring in 87.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 24, 2012, 01:30:30 PM
Bob Knight's last championship team (87?) was led by two jucos - may have been the only ones he ever had at I4.
Led by two jucos? Are you sure some guy named Steve Alford, 22 points per game (the two you mention avg'd 11) didn't lead Indiana? Those two juco players were good and key players, but some
traditional guy led them to the title.
Been reading this board for quite some time, several years. Do not recall anyone ever saying no JUCO players should be recruited or allowed at Marquette. Maybe someone can point to where that was the case made here as my memory is foggy. Some posters, fans and alumni had trepidations over the quantity of JUCOs and the types of JUCOs these kids were coming from. Weren't there concerns of diploma factories for Yous and other players?
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 24, 2012, 10:57:23 AM
As were many of John Wooden's UCLA National champion teams.
Who?
Sidney Wickes, Swen Nater (played less than 3 minutes per game) and John Vallely are the ones that come to mind. Maybe there are more, but that wouldn't constitute many over 10 national championship teams.
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 23, 2012, 05:34:30 PM
I'm with Lenny - Boylan took us to the promised land. Best transfer? Not sure. Most strategic? Absolutely.
Best JUCo would be Jerome Whitehead. Prototypical Aircraft Carrier - Al coined the term when referring to J. Pretty strong endorsement.
Whitehead was the coolest cat. Shortly after returning from Atlanta in '77 all the team members were sporting sealskin jackets. Rosenberger had a waist length, most had regular coat length, but Whitehead had ankle length seal skin. With that coat, his gradated shades, afro and imperturbable expression he was the nuts on the boulevard.
[/quote Who remembers the unlicensed tee shirt that surfaced after the national championship showing Al holding a Marquette Banner over his head and the team with the caption 1977 N.C.A.A. Champs? Still got mine!
Quote from: Hoopaloop on April 25, 2012, 10:28:05 PM
Who?
Sidney Wickes, Swen Nater (played less than 3 minutes per game) and John Vallely are the ones that come to mind. Maybe there are more, but that wouldn't constitute many over 10 national championship teams.
Without doing an exhaustive search, since Wicks and Vallely constituted 40% of the starting 5 for the 69 and 70 teams, I think that is pretty significant.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 26, 2012, 11:57:08 AM
Without doing an exhaustive search, since Wicks and Vallely constituted 40% of the starting 5 for the 69 and 70 teams, I think that is pretty significant.
Yes, important players on those two teams, but he had 10 championship teams and 80% of them had no JUCO players. That is where your many comment threw me off.
Quote from: MU82 on April 23, 2012, 01:29:11 PM
As for Robert Jackson, I guess one could call him a role player ... in that everyone not named D-Wade was a role player on that team. At 15.4 points and 7.5 rebs per game, shooting 56 percent from the floor and giving MU its first true center in years (or even decades), that's the kind of role player I wish we'd get lots and lots and lots more of.
+1Million. RJax was a beast. Great player for MU.
Seems obvious in retrospect, but that Final 4 team was loaded with talent. D Wade, Diener and Novak all went onto the NBA with Dwyane a lock for the Hall of Fame. Scott Merritt and RJax were also both really good college players who would start on just about any other Marquette team since.
Quote from: LittleMurs on April 24, 2012, 01:18:25 PM
This puts my thinking on recruiting in a new light. JUCOs and transfer are not the way to begin building a team, but they are the best way of finishing. Once you see the weaknesses from the base you recruited, you fill in with mature players.
Great point Murs. Kind of difficult to know exactly what a 16 y/o will bring to the table 3-4 years down the road but I think Buzz had a pretty good sense that Jae could start for him for two years 6 months before he got to campus.
Greatest non MU transfer of all time........
Larry Bird
Have we established "The Best Ever?" It would be interesting to see where people are at after this dialogue.