http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/41229/claiborne-with-low-wonderlic-score
There's nothing like a little pre-draft drama.
Former LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne is the top corner heading into this year's NFL draft, but according to sources, he didn't do so well on his Wonderlic Test.
Pro Football Weekly first reported that Claiborne, who won the Jim Thorpe Award, as the nation's best defensive back in 2011, scored a 4 out of 50 on the Wonderlic. It was the lowest known result since Iowa State running back Darren Davis reportedly received a 4 in 2000.
Claiborne's agent, Bus Cook, said he hadn't heard about Claiborne's low score, which makes sense because the scores are given to NFL teams, but aren't supposed to be released to the public.
"I haven't talked to anybody about it. All I know is that (Claiborne) was from a complicated defensive system and he flourished in it. I've never seen any sort of deficiency in him," Cook told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. "I'm sitting here in shock at what you're telling me. And if it is true, how does that get out? I thought the commissioner was going to put safeguards on this information and there would be severe discipline if it ever did get out. I don't know if he scored a 4 or a 40. All I know is he's a great kid, he's smart, and I've been thoroughly impressed with everything about him."
If Claiborne's score really was that low, it might cause NFL teams and general managers to pause, but expect that pause to be extremely short-lived. They'll get in contact with the school and take things from there. The Wonderlic might be a cognitive aptitude test (one featuring 50 questions that have to be answered in 12 minutes), but its results haven't really had much influence on drafting.
Basically, Claiborne is entering the draft as a top-10 pick and he'll probably leave it that way. ESPN draft guru Mel Kiper still has him going fifth to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
"This should not have an impact. Not to minimize his position, but this isn't a quarterback, this isn't a middle linebacker, this isn't a guy that needs to memorize a dozen reads. He needs to react. Assuming he was fine in interviews -- and all I've heard is he's a good kid -- it shouldn't change the way teams view him. I will have him as the No. 5 pick to the (Tampa Bay) Bucs. These things pop up now and then and teams do a quick check, and they do their own evaluations, and they move on. Besides, not all teams trust everything they hear anyway."
That score wasn't great, but these scores mean little in the grand scheme of things. Vince Young scored a 6 and was the No. 3 draft pick in 2006. Dan Marino scored a 16 and was a Hall of Famer.
Are these scores a bigger deal for quarterbacks, linemen or linebackers? Probably, but at a position like cornerback, the past tells us that these scores have very little impact on how these players perform on the field.
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Sample Questions
http://www.wonderlic.com/sites/default/files/WPT-R%20Sample%20Questions.pdf
I remember reading once that scoring a 10 qualifies a person as "literate."
Initially I found this news to be disappointing because it's main purpose seems to be embarassing a 21-year-old. Then I realized that said 21-year-old is about to sign a $20MM contract. Hopefully he has some good people around him providing financial advice ;)
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on April 04, 2012, 09:55:55 AM
I remember reading once that scoring a 10 qualifies a person as "literate."
Hopefully he has some good people around him providing financial advice ;)
Who needs advice to buy Bentleys and throw money around at a titty bar?
The questions are a joke. There tongue twister type questions. The sample wonderlic questions I have seen are basic math.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on April 04, 2012, 09:55:55 AM
I remember reading once that scoring a 10 qualifies a person as "literate."
Initially I found this news to be disappointing because it's main purpose seems to be embarassing a 21-year-old. Then I realized that said 21-year-old is about to sign a $20MM contract. Hopefully he has some good people around him providing financial advice ;)
Perhaps Mr. Claiborne wants to open a bar, start a rap label, or get in the ground floor on a hot new fashion line. These are FOOL PROOF!
I have no doubts this kid couldn't graduate from high school and certainly couldn't have taken his SAT/ACT himself. Can we stop with the whole "student-athlete" charade now? 4s on the Wonderlic and FSU players found to have literacy level of grade schoolers. what a joke....
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 04, 2012, 09:45:40 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/41229/claiborne-with-low-wonderlic-score
Claiborne's agent, Bus Cook...
That score wasn't great, but these scores mean little in the grand scheme of things. Vince Young scored a 6 and was the No. 3 draft pick in 2006. Dan Marino scored a 16 and was a Hall of Famer.
Um.. The scores did appear to mean a lot actually with "Dream Team" QB Vince Young (who I believe is also represented by Bus Cook). He has struggled to learn anythiing and progress as an NFL QB and, according to my sources within the Titans organization, is a moron.
You have to be mentally challenged at that age to score that low if these are legit sample questions:
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 04, 2012, 10:27:30 AM
I have no doubts this kid couldn't graduate from high school and certainly couldn't have taken his SAT/ACT himself. Can we stop with the whole "student-athlete" charade now? 4s on the Wonderlic and FSU players found to have literacy level of grade schoolers. what a joke....
Aside from NCAA honchos and some university presidents, nobody takes this seriously. And even the honchos and presidents probably laugh inside when they say the term.
From Wikipedia (which means it has to be true!)
An average football player usually scores around 20 points, Wonderlic, Inc. claims a score of at least 10 points suggests a person is literate.[15] Furthermore, when the test was given to miscellaneous people of various occupations, it was observed that the average participant scored a 24. Examples of scores from everyday professions include:[citation needed]
Historian – 36
Chemist – 31
Physicist – 48
Programmer – 29
Journalist – 26
Sales – 24
Bank teller – 22
Clerical worker – 21
Security guard – 17
Warehouse worker – 15
Quote from: PTM on April 04, 2012, 09:59:43 AM
Who needs advice to buy Bentleys and throw money around at a titty bar?
Evidently me since I've never done either.
Quote from: MU82 on April 04, 2012, 10:37:08 AM
Aside from NCAA honchos and some university presidents, nobody takes this seriously. And even the honchos and presidents probably laugh inside when they say the term.
Don't forget bitter, middle-aged white sportswriters...I can hear Mitch Albom, Bob Ryan, and Mike Lupica clutching their pearls, tongue clucking, and firing up the Cliche-tron 5000 for use in their VERY SERIOUS columns this week.
Also, Wonderlic scores have pretty much no correlation with NFL success (Mr. Young not withstanding). It's as correlative as the combine BS of benching 225 lbs successively as much as possible, running in a straight line with no pads on for 40 yards, etc. See: Mike Mamula.
Recently read an article saying that the lower a defensive back scored on the Wonderlic, the better he performs in the NFL. This is also true for tight ends, apparently. Don't remember where I saw this, otherwise I'd link to it.
Quote from: damuts222 on April 04, 2012, 10:08:22 AM
The questions are a joke. There tongue twister type questions. The sample wonderlic questions I have seen are basic math.
I hope they aren't based on proper grammar usage.
This might get our Badger brethren upset, but the Giants were positively shocked when they saw how low Ron Dayne scored on his test.
Quote from: MU82 on April 04, 2012, 10:37:08 AM
Aside from NCAA honchos and some university presidents, nobody takes this seriously. And even the honchos and presidents probably laugh inside when they say the term.
Major flaws in this line of thinking.
There are more than 400,000 NCAA student athletes this year. You want to lump all of them into one kid from LSU football or one kid from Alabama or one kid from UCONN men's basketball?
90% of student athletes at the NCAA level are student athletes and participate in sports like golf, tennis, lacrosse, water polo, volleyball, track, so on and so forth. They are student athletes.
With the 10% that are tied up into football and basketball, even there most of those kids from DII, DIII and the majority of DI aren't going on to play pro ball and are working hard to be student athletes.
The exposure is never on these kids, it is on the corner cases of kids like this one. Does anyone think Alton Mason at MU would score well on this test? There have been others, but that doesn't mean the entire MU basketball team should be painted with that brush, and certainly not all student-athletes at MU like the women's soccer team or the men's tennis team.
these tests are a joke as are most standardized tests. it's very easy for me to believe that these kids can get through high school and college with a strong work ethic and a lot of academic support. i'm not saying that's always, or even typically the case, but you can do enough test prep for the SAT to get a kid into college...as an athlete. the number one reason for college failure is poor time management...that's indirectly (poorly) tested through the ACT/SAT, but i've never been a fan of perceivers, ACT/SAT, etc. like any business...your interview team and employee development plan are where the success come from in the form of evaluating someone's intelligence, morals/ethics, etc.
I'm pretty sure it came out that he has a learning disability.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on April 04, 2012, 01:35:12 PM
90% of student athletes at the NCAA level are student athletes and participate in sports like golf, tennis, lacrosse, water polo, volleyball, track, so on and so forth. They are student athletes.
And many of them go to work at Enterprise.....that's the one thing I learned from this year's tourney...
Quote from: Hoopaloop on April 04, 2012, 01:35:12 PM
Major flaws in this line of thinking.
There are more than 400,000 NCAA student athletes this year. You want to lump all of them into one kid from LSU football or one kid from Alabama or one kid from UCONN men's basketball?
90% of student athletes at the NCAA level are student athletes and participate in sports like golf, tennis, lacrosse, water polo, volleyball, track, so on and so forth. They are student athletes.
With the 10% that are tied up into football and basketball, even there most of those kids from DII, DIII and the majority of DI aren't going on to play pro ball and are working hard to be student athletes.
The exposure is never on these kids, it is on the corner cases of kids like this one. Does anyone think Alton Mason at MU would score well on this test? There have been others, but that doesn't mean the entire MU basketball team should be painted with that brush, and certainly not all student-athletes at MU like the women's soccer team or the men's tennis team.
Good point. My own daughter, a pretty bright young lady, was a Division III athlete.
I guess I assumed we were talking primarily about Division I men's basketball and football athletes. Shame on me for assuming, I suppose, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. Nobody was either talking about or implying women's lacrosse or men's fencing athletes on this thread.
Quote from: MU B2002 on April 04, 2012, 10:30:48 AM
Um.. The scores did appear to mean a lot actually with "Dream Team" QB Vince Young (who I believe is also represented by Bus Cook). He has struggled to learn anythiing and progress as an NFL QB and, according to my sources within the Titans organization, is a moron.
It's actually sad that this has gotten so much attention and even though this information is supposed to confidential, other agents (and ESPN) are trying to smear this kid's reputation. I am a big LSU football fan and Claiborne is a good kid who is trying to do everything right but is obviously not a genius. He probably would have been better off smoking weed or sexually assaulting a woman.
And by the way, there is a big difference between trying to run an NFL offense in the case of Vince Young and a being cover corner. Deion Sanders was rumored to have barely opened a playbook his entire career. Patrick Peterson scored a 9 on the Wonderlic and was first-team all pro as a rookie.
Quote from: frozena pizza on April 04, 2012, 03:42:48 PM
And by the way, there is a big difference between trying to run an NFL offense in the case of Vince Young and a being cover corner.
I agree, which is why I thought it was odd they used Vince Young as an example of the test score not meaning much.
Quote from: MU82 on April 04, 2012, 03:12:38 PM
Good point. My own daughter, a pretty bright young lady, was a Division III athlete.
I guess I assumed we were talking primarily about Division I men's basketball and football athletes. Shame on me for assuming, I suppose, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. Nobody was either talking about or implying women's lacrosse or men's fencing athletes on this thread.
Good point. My response was to the overall term student athlete, which is very much a valid term. Even in DI there are nearly 350 men's basketball programs and most of them are small budgets, kids aren't going to play pro ball and they have to go to class and balance those aspects of student and athlete. No question there are some where the student portion is an absolute joke at some of these schools and we often hear about them. However, even the athletic powers have kids that go to class, go on in life to become lawyers, engineers, doctors, businessmen, etc.
Quote from: frozena pizza on April 04, 2012, 03:42:48 PM
It's actually sad that this has gotten so much attention and even though this information is supposed to confidential, other agents (and ESPN) are trying to smear this kid's reputation. I am a big LSU football fan and Claiborne is a good kid who is trying to do everything right but is obviously not a genius. He probably would have been better off smoking weed or sexually assaulting a woman.
And by the way, there is a big difference between trying to run an NFL offense in the case of Vince Young and a being cover corner. Deion Sanders was rumored to have barely opened a playbook his entire career. Patrick Peterson scored a 9 on the Wonderlic and was first-team all pro as a rookie.
ESPN had some commentary on this, they assumed that since the scores are sent to all 32 teams this was probably leaked by a team that hopes he slips farther down the draft board.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on April 04, 2012, 02:29:57 PM
And many of them go to work at Enterprise.....that's the one thing I learned from this year's tourney...
Still don't understand how the NCAA is ok with that commercial. A company that admits that it recruits from the very bottom of the class, is that really what the NCAA wants people to think of its student athletes?
Quote from: frozena pizza on April 04, 2012, 03:42:48 PM. I am a big LSU football fan and Claiborne is a good kid who is trying to do everything right but is obviously not a genius.
thek yu fer yer supurt uv me in tha Lsu foyt bal teem.
-Moris claiborn
Quote from: chapman on April 06, 2012, 07:44:28 AM
thek yu fer yer supurt uv me in tha Lsu foyt bal teem.
-Moris claiborn
I wish I hadn't laughed so hard at this.
Quote from: MU B2002 on April 04, 2012, 04:08:42 PM
I agree, which is why I thought it was odd they used Vince Young as an example of the test score not meaning much.
The position difference, oh and the fact that VY actually is awful