Mike Irvin the head of the Mac Irvin Fire AAU team will be on the Score with Jason Goff and Terry Boers within the next hour.
Reggie Smith and Steve Taylor played for the Mac Irvin Fire.
I think their conversation will be more around this topic.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/highschool/ct-spt-0328-prep-bkb-public-league-illini-reax-20120327,0,5406825.story
Simeon head coach Robert Smith will also be on in 5 minutes (2:25).
Steve Taylor played his high-school ball at Simeon.
Sheesh.
I get that recruiting Chicago and the CPL is important for Illinois (though perhaps not as important as some think ... Self and Kruger won a lot of games without a lot of CPL kids), but who do these iceholes think they are?
Can you imagine the furor around here if MPS coaches were trying to dictate Marquette basketball hires?
Buzz Williams' experience should tell you that you don't need to be known, you just need to develop the relationships.
Terry asked Robert Smith about how it looks dirty if he takes an assistant coaching gig at Illinois then Jabari Parker commits there.
Smith said he has an open door policy for all coaches to come in and recruit Parker.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 28, 2012, 02:23:41 PM
Sheesh.
I get that recruiting Chicago and the CPL is important for Illinois (though perhaps not as important as some think ... Self and Kruger won a lot of games without a lot of CPL kids), but who do these iceholes think they are?
Can you imagine the furor around here if MPS coaches were trying to dictate Marquette basketball hires?
Much like there are a lot of MU fans who think that Buzz should be in a constant battle with Bo for in-state recruits, there are a lot of Illinois fans who think that Illinois can only win with Chicago talent.
Robert Smith was very impressive. Not sure he was feeding a line or not though...
Quote from: Pakuni on March 28, 2012, 02:23:41 PM
Sheesh.
I get that recruiting Chicago and the CPL is important for Illinois (though perhaps not as important as some think ... Self and Kruger won a lot of games without a lot of CPL kids), but who do these iceholes think they are?
Can you imagine the furor around here if MPS coaches were trying to dictate Marquette basketball hires?
He obviously wasnt John Wooden, but CPL coaches blackballed Joey Meyer right out of a job. He's the guy who was landing the big guns like Aguirre and Cummings, not Ray. But when things went south for Teddy Grubbs, Public League coaches were very upfront about not sending players there. They are entitled buffoons.
I can't stand the Chicago AAU and CPS coaches. They were terrible with the DePaul job too. They are the epitome of what's wrong with the AAU system, it's awful.
Interesting comment by Mike Irvin the head of the Mac Irvin Fire AAU team. I was surprised how he said he encourages his players to play for Buzz Williams and Marquette.
Robert Smith Interview
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2Fd0%2Fd1%2Fd0%2Fd6%2Fd7%2FdL%2F1067L_3.MP3%3Fauthtok%3D5561731662950222136_6xMnIpvrtQtjbcwdttdEZ0VcvE&podcast_name=Robert+Smith+on+Boers+and+Bernstein&podcast_artist=Boers+and+Bernstein&station_id=391&tag=pages&dcid=CBS.CHI
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 28, 2012, 02:26:41 PM
Buzz Williams' experience should tell you that you don't need to be known, you just need to develop the relationships.
This. This. This. Buzz's story and his relationship with Mac Irvin Fire is incredible.
The CPL. There were days you wouldn't dream of dealing with those characters. Sonny Cox. Those were the days. Dirty beyond repair.
In his first year at Illinois, Bill Self, coaching Lon Kruger's recruits, got to the Elite Eight without a single player from the Chicago Public League.
Not saying Illinois could make a steady diet of completely avoiding the CPL, as Kruger did, but, you know, it probably could. There is a lot of talent elsewhere in Illinois, in nearby states and, well, all around the country. For example, Deron Williams was a Texan, and Self brought him in. A good recruiter can recruit anywhere, as Buzz has proven.
Can I draw an analogy to MU and see if you buy it ...
No MU team has made a final four without at least one MPS (Milwaukee Public School) kid on the roster (see Robert Jackson in 2003). For MU to be really successful, we need to start getting the best from MPS. So now that we have Deonte Buton, Duane Wilson and getting strong looks from Looney and Stone, that is happening.
Same with Illinois. They can be somewhat successful without CPS kids. But it is a lot easier and they can get a lot further with a steady diet of CPS kids.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 29, 2012, 06:56:43 AM
Can I draw an analogy to MU and see if you buy it ...
No MU team has made a final four without at least one MPS (Milwaukee Public School) kid on the roster (see Robert Jackson in 2003). For MU to be really successful, we need to start getting the best from MPS. So now that we have Deonte Buton, Duane Wilson and getting strong looks from Looney and Stone, that is happening.
Same with Illinois. They can be somewhat successful without CPS kids. But it is a lot easier and they can get a lot further with a steady diet of CPS kids.
Well, MU has only made three final fours so I am not sure if that is simply coincidence. And who were the MPS kids on the 1977 team? I see a couple MUHS alums, but no one from MPS.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 29, 2012, 06:56:43 AM
Can I draw an analogy to MU and see if you buy it ...
No MU team has made a final four without at least one MPS (Milwaukee Public School) kid on the roster (see Robert Jackson in 2003). For MU to be really successful, we need to start getting the best from MPS. So now that we have Deonte Buton, Duane Wilson and getting strong looks from Looney and Stone, that is happening.
Same with Illinois. They can be somewhat successful without CPS kids. But it is a lot easier and they can get a lot further with a steady diet of CPS kids.
Dominican is not an MPS school.
No MPS kids on the '77 team.
Quote from: Goose on March 29, 2012, 08:34:30 AM
No MPS kids on the '77 team.
I guess that shoots that theory in the a$$...
I think the CPL is becoming marginalized. Sure there's talent there but the south suburban schools have begun turning out top players too.
Just off the of of my head from MU:
Wade
ODB
McNeal
I had a brain cramp (will not be the last one). I was thinking "a kid from the City of Milwaukee" and since I was comparing it the CPS kids for Illinois, I incorrectly wrote MPS.
1976 (Bill Neary), 1977 (Bill Neary), 1994 (Damon Key), 2003 (Robert Jackson), 2011 (Dwight Buycks) and 2012 (none).
In the last 35 years, only 1 MU team made the sweet sixteen without a kid from Milwaukee on the team, this year's team.
So just like Illinois with CPS, it is possible for MU to make the sweet 16 without a Milwaukee kid, but it is a lot easier with them. Now that Burton and Wilson are coming, and Looney and Stone are considering, we are getting Milwaukee kids.
Better?
Added Later
1977 - Gary Rosenberger (MU High)
Bill Neary was from Wauwatosa but went to MU high
Jim Dudley was from South Milwaukee and sent to Prairie in Racine
1994 - Damon Key (MU High)
John Pogodzinski went to Pius XI but was from West Ellis
2003 - Robert Jackson (Washington HS)
2011 - Dwight Buycks (Bay View)
Quote from: The Lens on March 29, 2012, 08:40:22 AM
I think the CPL is becoming marginalized. Sure there's talent there but the south suburban schools have begun turning out top players too.
Just off the of of my head from MU:
Wade
ODB
McNeal
Two of the top 10 players in 2013 aren't from the CPL. Nowhere near marginalized.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 29, 2012, 08:46:58 AM
I had a brain cramp (will not be the last one). I was thinking "a kid from the City of Milwaukee" and since I was comparing it the CPS kids for Illinois, I incorrectly wrote MPS.
1976 (Bill Neary), 1977 (Bill Neary), 1994 (Damon Key), 2003 (Robert Jackson), 2011 (Dwight Buycks) and 2012 (none).
In the last 35 years, only 1 MU team made the sweet sixteen without a kid from Milwaukee on the team, this year's team.
So just like Illinois with CPS, it is possible for MU to make the sweet 16 without a Milwaukee kid, but it is a lot easier with them. Now that Burton and Wilson are coming, and Looney and Stone are considering, we are getting Milwaukee kids.
Better?
In what way is it "easier?" How many MU teams that didn't make the Sweet 16 had Milwaukee-raised players on the team? Just because Sweet 16 teams had one player from Milwaukee, that doesn't mean much of anything. Someone could probably go back and say that every MU Sweet 16 team also had a player from (fill in the blank) and claim that MU needs more players from that location. IOW, there's no direct correlation.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 29, 2012, 08:59:15 AM
In what way is it "easier?" How many MU teams that didn't make the Sweet 16 had Milwaukee-raised players on the team? Just because Sweet 16 teams had one player from Milwaukee, that doesn't mean much of anything. Someone could probably go back and say that every MU Sweet 16 team also had a player from (fill in the blank) and claim that MU needs more players from that location. IOW, there's no direct correlation.
No, you cannot fill in "X" and get the same results. I believe MU had no Milwaukee players between Jackson (2003) and Buycks (2011). I cannot think of one between Damon Key (1994) and Jackson (2003). Likewise, who were the Milwaukee kids during the dark ages of the Piano Man?
Only when MU is successful does it have Milwaukee kids. It's not a coincidence.
Leaving out the handful of truly elite programs ... every successful program has a recruiting base. MU's recruiting base SHOULD BE Milwaukee. This is where they get their steady stream of 3 and 4 star players. Then supplement it with 4 and 5 star players from elsewhere.
Successfully recruiting Milwaukee players means a stable and solid recruiting base ... the key to a successful program.
The key on recruiting local kids is they must be either the elite of the elite or great role player types. I love having Milwaukee kids on the team but only if they fill the role.
Trevor Powell and Shannon Smith are two other names that come to mind.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 29, 2012, 09:09:49 AM
No, you cannot fill in "X" and get the same results. I believe MU had no Milwaukee players between Jackson (2003) and Buycks (2011). I cannot think of one between Damon Key (1994) and Jackson (2003). Likewise, who were the Milwaukee kids during the dark ages of the Piano Man?
Only when MU is successful does it have Milwaukee kids. It's not a coincidence.
Leaving out the handful of truly elite programs ... every successful program has a recruiting base. MU's recruiting base SHOULD BE Milwaukee. This is where they get their steady stream of 3 and 4 star players. Then supplement it with 4 and 5 star players from elsewhere.
Successfully recruiting Milwaukee players means a stable and solid recruiting base ... the key to a successful program.
Marquette has only made it to the Sweet 16 five times since winning the NC and never had more than 2 Milwaukee players on any of those teams (only '79 and '03) so one could argue that 3 of the 5 Sweet 16 teams have had 1 or 0 Milwaukee players on them, meaning that it's not all that important.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 29, 2012, 09:09:49 AM
No, you cannot fill in "X" and get the same results. I believe MU had no Milwaukee players between Jackson (2003) and Buycks (2011). I cannot think of one between Damon Key (1994) and Jackson (2003). Likewise, who were the Milwaukee kids during the dark ages of the Piano Man?
Only when MU is successful does it have Milwaukee kids. It's not a coincidence.
Of course it's a coincidence. MU didn't go to the Final Four in 2003 because Robert Jackson was from Milwaukee. They went to the Final Four because it was a really good team and Robert Jackson was a really good college player. Had RJax hailed from Rockford, it would have had no impact on the success of the team.
The Piano Man had several of Milwaukee players (Charles Luter, Trevor Powell, Kevin Johnson). That MUST explain his lack of success.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 29, 2012, 10:12:56 AM
Of course it's a coincidence. MU didn't go to the Final Four in 2003 because Robert Jackson was from Milwaukee. They went to the Final Four because it was a really good team and Robert Jackson was a really good college player. Had RJax hailed from Rockford, it would have had no impact on the success of the team.
The Piano Man had several of Milwaukee players (Charles Luter, Trevor Powell, Kevin Johnson). That MUST explain his lack of success.
Well, if Robert Jackson was from Rockford, he probably doesn't transfer to Marquette.
A better way of putting it is that it is easier for us to recruit locally, so when the local talent is good, Marquette tends to be good.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 29, 2012, 11:37:01 AM
Well, if Robert Jackson was from Rockford, he probably doesn't transfer to Marquette.
A better way of putting it is that it is easier for us to recruit locally, so when the local talent is good, Marquette tends to be good.
If Robert Jackson were from Milwaukee, he probably doesn't go to Mississippi State.
Oh, wait.
What you're saying - that being Jackson's hometown school helped MU land him as a transfer - is very different than suggesting MU was good
because Robert Jackson (or others) are from Milwaukee. Players' hometowns have no bearing on a team's success. MU has been to consecutive Sweet 16s led primarily by players from Texas, Georgia and North Carolina.
Then again, maybe if there was a kid from Milwaukee on the roster, that would have been just what MU needed to beat Florida last week.
Your "better way" is indeed better, but also a far cry from what OP is suggesting.
Also, it's silly to assert that "locally" is limited to the boundaries of a particularly city. Yes, Marquette needs a recruiting base. And that base should stretch through Wisconsin, into northern Illinois, perhaps even into northwestern Indiana and southeastern Michigan. It shouldn't end at the Milwaukee city limits.