This sounds closer to reality.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/56501/3-point-shot-smu-eyes-buzz-williams
Read that this morning. The difference is that I'm not sure Buzz has the same motivations as other coaches. The people that hired him and gave him the keys to the castle are gone, and the new guys seem to want to keep a tight leash on him. As Corey said, "You don't mess with happy". Well, it sure looks like Larry Williams has been messing with happy.
Katz is wrong more than right....
He is defn wrong in this case...just dotting I's and crossing t's at this point...
Quote from: Smu18 on March 26, 2012, 07:04:55 AM
Katz is wrong more than right....
He is defn wrong in this case...just dotting I's and crossing t's at this point...
Keep dreaming.
You want to hug it out...?
Quote from: Smu18 on March 26, 2012, 07:16:56 AM
You want to hug it out...?
I guess you'll need a shoulder to cry on.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 26, 2012, 07:02:49 AM
Read that this morning. The difference is that I'm not sure Buzz has the same motivations as other coaches. The people that hired him and gave him the keys to the castle are gone, and the new guys seem to want to keep a tight leash on him. As Corey said, "You don't mess with happy". Well, it sure looks like Larry Williams has been messing with happy.
People keep referring to a strained relationship between Buzz and Larry. Where is this coming from? Is it just assumed because the AD is new?
pillows of Buzz's new money will suck up my tears....
Quote from: Smu18 on March 26, 2012, 07:04:55 AM
Katz is wrong more than right....
He is defn wrong in this case...just dotting I's and crossing t's at this point...
So ... I'm one that won't pretend to know Buzz's motivation at all. Without knowing that, I don't know how any of us can say for sure one way or that other.
That said, you've been 100% confident this entire time. What's your source?
I'll say it again...even if Buzz stays, which I think he will, the fact he is talking to others is disturbing. We need to create environment were our coach only talks to special programs, not jerk off programs.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 26, 2012, 07:19:30 AM
People keep referring to a strained relationship between Buzz and Larry. Where is this coming from? Is it just assumed because the AD is new?
Crap that LW has said to the press. His quotes aren't too hard to find, and people have quoted them in the threads.
Quote from: Utile et Dulce on March 26, 2012, 07:21:30 AM
So ... I'm one that won't pretend to know Buzz's motivation at all. Without knowing that, I don't know how any of us can say for sure one way or that other.
That said, you've been 100% confident this entire time. What's your source?
its done deal....unless touchdown jesus is playing for marquette now...
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2012, 07:23:20 AM
Crap that LW has said to the press. His quotes aren't too hard to find, and people have quoted them in the threads.
Seriously?!? That's it?!? That was a whole lot of nothing. As I said in the initial thread on those quotes, Larry basically used different words to say the same things that Buzz has been saying for 5 years.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 26, 2012, 07:19:30 AMPeople keep referring to a strained relationship between Buzz and Larry. Where is this coming from? Is it just assumed because the AD is new?
The interview in the JS where Larry seemed to call out Buzz's behavior from day one didn't help the outside perception. That, and that Buzz's general happiness with the job seems to have declined in recent months, since S-Cot's firing, Broeker not being hired, and Williams taking the job. Quite a bit going on to be coincidental.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 26, 2012, 07:27:51 AM
Seriously?!? That's it?!? That was a whole lot of nothing. As I said in the initial thread on those quotes, Larry basically used different words to say the same things that Buzz has been saying for 5 years.
Well, that is all we know.
Who knows.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 26, 2012, 07:28:27 AM
The interview in the JS where Larry seemed to call out Buzz's behavior from day one didn't help the outside perception. That, and that Buzz's general happiness with the job seems to have declined in recent months, since S-Cot's firing, Broeker not being hired, and Williams taking the job. Quite a bit going on to be coincidental.
Based on what?
You already said that. I was wondering: how do you know?
You've certainly hit on a nerve for this message board, and I could see it being fun to continually tweak the posters here...especially since you've nothing to lose if you're wrong. And, if that's the case, kudos to you. 32 pages is no small achievement.
So ... What's your source? Just repeating your own rumors or do you have an in? If you really want to send this board into a tizzy, you'd find a way to verify your story.
CofC
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 26, 2012, 07:30:27 AM
Based on what?
I agree. When have we seen Buzz be "less happy"?
If he leaves, he's not who he pretended to be in public. I don't completely buy his public persona anyway. He *has* to be part entertainer to have this job, and he does it well. That doesn't define him.
But, this wicked spiral the board has gotten in is...odd...to me. I haven't seen anything but speculation, including now on Buzz's general mood.
Other than one comment by LW, does anyone have any hard facts that might lead to Buzz being labeled unhappy?
Quote from: Smu18 on March 26, 2012, 07:32:47 AM
CofC
Ok. If Buzz leaves, it won't be because of anything this guy knows. Maybe his brother SMU17 has real information?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 26, 2012, 07:30:27 AMBased on what?
Based on Buzz talking about professionalism, saying that he needed to conduct himself more professionally as head coach at Marquette or at another school. Can't remember where I saw that quote, but it was within the past day or two. Buzz never talked about any other schools before this year, LW calling him out publicly, and we now know he's been granted permission to speak to SMU, something that never happened last year with OU or TAMU.
Last year I had no doubts that Buzz would stay. This year I don't feel nearly as certain.
I think the 'spiral' reference is accurate. This board, and especially a small handful of especially vocal posters, has managed to whip it (them) selves into a frenzy over the last few days. Now rumors and speculation get blown out of proportion and eventually become fact and voila! Presto chango! There's a Buzz is about to leave crisis!
Nobody has facts. If they do they won't adequately cite sources, so that demotes them to speculation.
Until someone has something new and factual to add, this is a massive exercise in futility.
Quote from: Utile et Dulce on March 26, 2012, 07:38:07 AM
Ok. If Buzz leaves, it won't be because of anything this guy knows. Maybe his brother SMU17 has real information?
ok...
This just in...SMU is irrelevant in College Bball and you can't always throw money at the problem.
Ok...live your life in disbelief....whatever makes you happy...you guys will be fine, good tradition, huge buyout to hire next guy with....
Indy...why teal?
Quote from: lawwarrior12 on March 26, 2012, 07:42:01 AM
I think the 'spiral' reference is accurate. This board, and especially a small handful of especially vocal posters, has managed to whip it (them) selves into a frenzy over the last few days. Now rumors and speculation get blown out of proportion and eventually become fact and voila! Presto chango! There's a Buzz is about to leave crisis!
Nobody has facts. If they do they won't adequately cite sources, so that demotes them to speculation.
Until someone has something new and factual to add, this is a massive exercise in futility.
Welcome to the sane side of the discussion.
Quote from: INDYWarrior on March 26, 2012, 07:44:45 AM
This just in...SMU is irrelevant in College Bball and you can't always throw money at the problem.
At least (unlike its football team) the school's BBteam hasn't gotten the death penalty...yet.
The one source that seems to have credibility that is reporting this is IWB. He usually seems to be well-tied in to the program, and I can't remember him posting anything like this in the past. If he's taking the idea of Buzz to SMU seriously, then it's probably serious.
http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/content.php?287-Could-Buzz-Williams-leave-Marquette-for-SMU
Bring me the carcass of Larry Williams
All IWB does in that article is say that SMU asked for permission to talk to Buzz, MU granted permission, and that the only thing that has changed since Buzz's "you don't mess with happy" quote is that Papa Scott and LW have replaced Fr. Wilde and Cottingham.
It doesn't do anything more than report those three things. That's far from a 'this is a serious possibility' article.
Agreed completely brew city
You should be taking it very seriously and if I were you guys, I would be getting checkbooks and emails out to those that matter....its what they call a hail mary for you at this point...
Quote from: lawwarrior12 on March 26, 2012, 08:08:33 AMIt doesn't do anything more than report those three things. That's far from a 'this is a serious possibility' article.
I guess that's one way of reading this...
Quote from: IWBSo, should Marquette fans be concerned that SMU from C-USA is knocking on the door? The answer is yes.
how could a coach, fresh off of back to back Sweet 16s, go from "You don't mess with happy", to "Yes, I am interested"?
Again, I'm not saying what will or won't happen, but I think that article is pretty convincing in saying that it may happen.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 26, 2012, 08:15:55 AM
I guess that's one way of reading this...
Again, I'm not saying what will or won't happen, but I think that article is pretty convincing in saying that it may happen.
Buzz also listened to Arkansas and Oklahoma and Texas A&M. Just like every coach listens when another program talks.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 26, 2012, 07:02:49 AM. Well, it sure looks like Larry Williams has been messing with happy.
Don't know anything about SMU, but it is no secret Williams and especially Pilarz aren't thrilled with the current "culture" of MU bball. Pilarz isn't all that concerned about winning. I have no idea how this is impacting Buzz, but I would bet it is messing with his happy. Yes, I have a source. No, I'm not sharing it.
Did either A&M or OU request permission to speak with Buzz last year?
Did Marquette say "No"?
Unless those two things happened, there is no way to correlate what might be happening here to what happened last year.
If a job opens up in my industry that allows me to advance my career and it, for some reason, requires my boss to approve the interview, he would ruin our working relationship by turning me down. If SMU did indeed ask to talk to Buzz, I don't see MU having any reasonable way of turning them down. All you do then is guarantee that Buzz is unhappy.
Again, I think we have three or four pieces of information, most of them about emotion and/or pride and we've completely extrapolated from there, inventing motives, personas, and some injured pride.
If he leaves, we'll have no choice but to accept the version of events as they've been set before here at Scoop: LW is a prideful man that wanted to build his own legacy and pushed Buzz out.
If he stays, though, how are we going to align reality with the imaginations of the Scoop?
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on March 26, 2012, 08:25:45 AMit is no secret Williams and especially Pilarz aren't thrilled with the current "culture" of MU bball
Source? I've not read or heard anything in indicate that. Is this just what they are saying in private, or is there some reporting I can read or listen to to understand their issue with MUBB "culture"?
Quote from: Smu18 on March 26, 2012, 07:46:44 AMlive your life in disbelief
I don't know if anyone is living their life in disbelief. Some of us simply aren't willing to blindly trust someone who has given us no reason for credibility.
Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. Without a single shred of evidence, if you turn out to be right, it's just because you jumped on the bandwagon...not because you ever knew.
I find it hard to believe that Fr. Pilarz "doesn't care about winning." When they hired him one of the very first things he talked about was how important basketball was to him.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 26, 2012, 08:22:29 AM
Buzz also listened to Arkansas and Oklahoma and Texas A&M. Just like every coach listens when another program talks.
Yes he listened, but did he ever interview? If he has or is, then we have a problem. By interviewing he is open for other opportunities.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2012, 07:23:01 AM
I'll say it again...even if Buzz stays, which I think he will, the fact he is talking to others is disturbing. We need to create environment were our coach only talks to special programs, not jerk off programs.
+1 took the words right out of my mouth.
My goodness people, stop this insanity! Buzz is and will continue to be our coach; there is nothing but rampant speculation to indicate otherwise.
We don't know how much talking is going going on for crying out loud. If someone called and said "I've got a job opportunity you might be interested in." I'd politely listen no matter the circumstances. That doesn't mean for a second that I'd entertain accepting every single offer.
Quote from: TJ on March 26, 2012, 08:52:32 AM
My goodness people, stop this insanity! Buzz is and will continue to be our coach; there is nothing but rampant speculation to indicate otherwise.
Agreed. The only thing we should be speculating on is how long before it becomes official that he is NOT leaving.
Done Deal...
Hello Bruce Weber...
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2012, 07:23:01 AM
I'll say it again...even if Buzz stays, which I think he will, the fact he is talking to others is disturbing. We need to create environment were our coach only talks to special programs, not jerk off programs.
Listening politely is not "talking". Our coach has no agent, so if someone wants to talk to him there is no other avenue for them to do so than to say it directly to him. Listening to them does not constitute "serious interest", nor does it mean that he's starting to think about leaving.
This program lacks accountability, with the things that have happened off the court something has to be done. Players need to be released or coach has to be held to a higher standard. I want MU to win every gme but at what cost to the university and community.
Quote from: attackelite on March 26, 2012, 09:18:10 AM
This program lacks accountability, with the things that have happened off the court something has to be done. Players need to be released or coach has to be held to a higher standard. I want MU to win every gme but at what cost to the university and community.
Explain what "has happened" off the court. Not what somebody alleges happened. What happened. Enlighten us.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 26, 2012, 09:20:16 AM
Explain what "has happened" off the court. Not what somebody alleges happened. What happened. Enlighten us.
And not just what your niece thinks of it
If their were any major off court infractions they would be known or Buzz would have been fired. I would think Buzz getting scolded for dancing might show where the bar is set for behavior.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 26, 2012, 09:24:51 AM
And not just what your niece thinks of it
Or Derrick Wendler.
Explain what "has happened" off the court. Not what somebody alleges happened. What happened. Enlighten us.
You can believe or not believe what has happened. It's up to you. I know what I know and I believe what I believe.
Quote from: attackelite on March 26, 2012, 09:49:41 AM
Explain what "has happened" off the court. Not what somebody alleges happened. What happened. Enlighten us.
You can believe or not believe what has happened. It's up to you. I know what I know and I believe what I believe.
Well that clears it up. Good job!
Quote from: attackelite on March 26, 2012, 09:49:41 AM
Explain what "has happened" off the court. Not what somebody alleges happened. What happened. Enlighten us.
You can believe or not believe what has happened. It's up to you. I know what I know and I believe what I believe.
You know what I believe? That we shouldn't put the future of our basketball program in jeopardy because of something a jilted 18 year old girl says.
Quote from: Smu18 on March 26, 2012, 08:54:32 AM
Done Deal...
Hello Bruce Weber...
Grats on SMU hiring Bruce Weber!
Take the blinders off. The sexual assaults and bar fight happened. Thats off the court issues. Are MU players 100% at fault no but they are accountable.
Quote from: attackelite on March 26, 2012, 10:16:18 AM
Take the blinders off. The sexual assaults and bar fight happened. Thats off the court issues. Are MU players 100% at fault no but they are accountable.
Did I miss the official news report and police investigation on the bar fight?
Quote from: attackelite on March 26, 2012, 10:16:18 AM
Take the blinders off. The sexual assaults and bar fight happened. Thats off the court issues. Are MU players 100% at fault no but they are accountable.
Did I miss where they were proven guilty in the court of law?
Quote from: attackelite on March 26, 2012, 10:16:18 AM
Take the blinders off. The sexual assaults and bar fight happened. Thats off the court issues. Are MU players 100% at fault no but they are accountable.
I'm not willing to make that jump.
We don't know exactly what happened, but the resulting PR wasn't good. MU's players need to be more aware of their "fame" and be more responsible than the average MU student.
I think that's reasonable.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 26, 2012, 10:03:11 AM
You know what I believe? That we shouldn't put the future of our basketball program in jeopardy because of something a jilted 18 year old girl says.
See, now you're on the other extreme and questioning a MU student's character when we don't even know her.
I think it's reasonable to say that we (internet nerds) don't know exactly what has happened in the past 2 years, but the resulting reputation needs to be cleaned up a bit. That's not an attack on Buzz or the players. Just trying to be realistic.
Quote from: Smu18 on March 26, 2012, 08:54:32 AM
Done Deal...
Hello Bruce Weber...
Out of morbid curiosity, if it was a done deal, why is SMU reaching out to Seth Greenberg? (http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2012/march/26/report-smu-interested-seth-greenberg (http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2012/march/26/report-smu-interested-seth-greenberg))
I make two promises to you: 1. Buzz will listen to SMU's offer. 2. Buzz will be polite when he declines the job. Call back when you have a top-175 team.
Coaches are worried about recruiting and job security. No coach in their right mind jumps ship on a school that allows them to recruit and win. Especially when he's got mega-recruits coming on in the next two years (and don't even pretend like any recruits will follow a coach to SMU...) When is the last time that a coach on the top of their game jumped ship to a bottom-tier school on probation for recruiting violations? Serious question: when is the last time SMU made the tournament? They haven't won their conference since 1993 and their last Final Four was in 1956.
Is is possible that Buzz leaves for SMU? Yes. It's also possible that Buzz leaves for Illinois. Or South Carolina. Or Duquesne. It's just highly unlikely. Why would Buzz put his family at risk like that? He could be out of a job by 2014. Especially when you consider that Buzz's recruiting would be limited by the probation restrictions.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 26, 2012, 07:27:51 AM
Seriously?!? That's it?!? That was a whole lot of nothing. As I said in the initial thread on those quotes, Larry basically used different words to say the same things that Buzz has been saying for 5 years.
+1000000000000
Dateline 3/12/1907
Quote from: INDYWarrior on March 26, 2012, 07:44:45 AM
This just in...SMU is irrelevant in College Bball and you can't always throw money at the problem.
FIXED
Quote from: attackelite on March 26, 2012, 10:16:18 AM
Take the blinders off. The sexual assaults and bar fight happened. Thats off the court issues. Are MU players 100% at fault no but they are accountable.
Even if the young ladies' accounts are 100% accurate, it is unlikely the case ever gets brought to trial and even more unlikely there is a conviction. 19 and 20 year olds were in a bar not drinking. How in the world is this even an issue? Yes, things need to get cleaned up. But to pretend this is the first time that MU students, MU basketball players, collegiate athletes in general have messed up, and then assume it rises to a firing offense.......nah.
Quote from: MU B2002 on March 26, 2012, 09:39:33 AM
Or Derrick Wendler.
excellent pull of Mr Wendler's name.
Quote from: lurch91 on March 26, 2012, 10:03:51 AM
Grats on SMU hiring Bruce Weber!
+100000000000000000000000000