I think the biggest problem MU has had over the years is how they identify themselves as a program. I was listening to Roy Williams talk about Kansas and how he feels about that the program he left. He said it is OK to love two universities. Of all of former coaches how many do you think still love our university? To me the answer is none, with exception to Majerus for different reasons, and thst speaks volumes to me. Coaches come and go at many schools but I am afraid our culture is not one that embraces our coaches.
Is MU bigger than Crean or Buzz or any coach? I definitely believe we are, but I do not think we are better than our coaches and that might be the problem. We are a basketball school....plain and simple. Much of our national identity is due to our basketball team. For MU to become elite and remain there they must embrace the basketball history. We are only a stepping stone job because we allowed ourselves to be that.
Is MU a university that should tolerate the possibility of a coach hiding things that have produced negative publicity for the school? I love Buzz on the court but in the last 2 years we have seen questionable things. None of us knows what happens in the Al, we don't know what happens behind closed doors. Buzz says all these wonderful things and maybe they are true, but maybe its all self promotion. If he is not holding the boys that he says are such great people accountable for their actions, his words are empty
Aaaaaaaand after reading several of your rants/post today, you, my friend, are a negative nancy.
What I do know is the vast majority of off court things were not big deals. How they were handled might have been wrong but the actions themselves were not major issues. For the most part the boys have behaved well and represented school well.
Jamil....if my wanting MU to be a top ten program makes me negative nancy I can live with that.
You think accusations of sexual assault are minor issues?
Quote from: Goose on March 25, 2012, 02:48:52 PM
Jamil....if my wanting MU to be a top ten program makes me negative nancy I can live with that.
Every person who posts on this board, especially once the season is over, wants MU to be a national powerhouse.
Buzz loves to play the country bumpkin role. Aw schucks, I'm just a hick from the sticks. Round up Homer and Jethro and let's head out fishin' for some bullheads. Actually, my opinion of Buzz is that he's sly as a fox and knows exactly what he's doin' at all times. Love that aspect of his personality.
Likewise, don't buy the crap that its all about the kids and not about me. Hell, he's got an ego, but smart enough to conseal it. 180 degrees from the previous prick.
Jamil....most thought we were playing with house money this year by making S16,hardly powerhouse type goals in my world.
Girls being assaulted is not minor issue. Guys being cleared on such conduct should be regarded as much as the accused charges. I will never debate assault because it is a horrible thing. It also is life changing for the accused even if proven innocent.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 25, 2012, 02:50:29 PM
Every person who posts on this board, especially once the season is over, wants MU to be a national powerhouse.
But at what costs will give you 100 different answers.
it's indiana
a savage slap to the face
good men trusted him
Sultan...the question also is what do you consider a powerhouse? We are not there yet in my opinion and think we have foundation for first time in 35 years to get there. I roll the dice with Buzz and see how far he takes us. He is crazy and fun to watch... plus he brings in guys that can play.
Geez, we're back to the sexual assault BS. Did I miss some criminal charges being filed or, at a minimum, some sort of civil suit? If not, why is it continually referred to by some as a sexual assault?
Quote from: jhags15 on March 25, 2012, 02:49:14 PM
You think that the idea of girls getting sexually assaulted is a minor issue?
So you're declaring guilt when there weren't even charges filed?
I was just asking how that was not a major issue. Any one using the guilt before innocence argument just needs to shutup...you all use it. I will put the word an accused sexual assault and some people will still get wild about it.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 25, 2012, 02:51:11 PM
Buzz loves to play the country bumpkin role. Aw schucks, I'm just a hick from the sticks. Round up Homer and Jethro and let's head out fishin' for some bullheads. Actually, my opinion of Buzz is that he's sly as a fox and knows exactly what he's doin' at all times. Love that aspect of his personality.
Likewise, don't buy the crap that its all about the kids and not about me. Hell, he's got an ego, but smart enough to conseal it. 180 degrees from the previous prick.
In the end, what's the difference. One sugarcoats it better with an act of Aw Shucks?
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 25, 2012, 03:26:07 PM
Geez, we're back to the sexual assault BS. Did I miss some criminal charges being filed or, at a minimum, some sort of civil suit? If not, why is it continually referred to by some as a sexual assault?
Because those were the allegations. The Milwaukee Police Department admitted that because MU waited so long, they couldn't move on the case. No one was exonerated either. It ended up being a situation where something could of happened or something might not have happened, but MU's handling of it leaves that cloud still in tact.
Then you add the Vander Blue stuff. Then you add last week's stuff. You add in other things, and it becomes one thing after another. Maybe they are all minor, but some administrators don't like MU in the papers for that stuff every few months. Especially if we had success in years past where those things weren't happening, or at least weren't hitting the papers.
No crap the bad media scares the school and that is the problem. Now do you take the media as gospel and run scared or get the facts and defend your coach?
Quote from: Goose on March 25, 2012, 04:24:56 PM
No crap the bad media scares the school and that is the problem. Now do you take the media as gospel and run scared or get the facts and defend your coach?
You defend your coach, but there comes a point Goose. One incident, a second indicent, a third incident. At some point, they get tired of the incidents. In all honesty, do recall this many incidents in the last year happening in the previous 15? I recall a few incidents spaced out every 3 or 4 years, but not all in one short time period.
Sometimes its not the severity (though Sexual Assault allegations are very serious) of the incidents, but the frequency of the incidents. The MU brass would like us off the front pages and on the evening news. Can you blame them for having that opinion?
You know, people here are saying where there is smoke there is fire. You've said that phrase to equate the ball squeezing of Buzz with the administration. Don't you think the same smoke where there is fire phrase can be applied to some of these incidents, or are they only smoke and no fire? Seems you want it both ways, or at least that could be one impression someone comes to. In my opinion.
Hoop..do you agree there is truth in Buzz being on tighter leash?
Quote from: Hoopaloop on March 25, 2012, 04:10:01 PM
Because those were the allegations. The Milwaukee Police Department admitted that because MU waited so long, they couldn't move on the case. No one was exonerated either. It ended up being a situation where something could of happened or something might not have happened, but MU's handling of it leaves that cloud still in tact.
Then you add the Vander Blue stuff. Then you add last week's stuff. You add in other things, and it becomes one thing after another. Maybe they are all minor, but some administrators don't like MU in the papers for that stuff every few months. Especially if we had success in years past where those things weren't happening, or at least weren't hitting the papers.
I truly don't recall whether "sexual assault" was alleged or not or even what the definition of sexual assault in Wisconsin is, but my problem with the incident being described as "sexual assault" is the way it stigmatizes those "alleged" to be involved who have had zero opportunity to defend himself/themselves in public the way the accuser has been able to. And to be clear, I'm OK with it being referred to as an alleged sexual assault if that is what the woman actually complained to authorities.
As to the other "stuff" you refer to, those are fair game. I don't think they are particularly newsworthy, but they are fair game. But the only reason they made the papers is because of the team's success. Hopefully these guys are learning some lessons here how to conduct themselves in public (and private too, I guess).
I also am not interested in re-raising this issue. My initial post was an expression of dismay how it keeps popping up and being mischaracterized in a variety of topics, kind of like whack-a-mole.
Quote from: Goose on March 25, 2012, 04:49:02 PM
Hoop..do you agree there is truth in Buzz being on tighter leash?
Yes and I wouldn't argue with it. If I was responsible for the image of the university and some of the athletes in our program were putting the image at risk, I would put the head of that part of the university (coach and AD) under a tighter leash. No argument there. Why wouldn't the president and the board of trustees want that?
Hoop...agreed tighter leash if needed. Truthfully do you think our kids have behaved that badly that tighter leash was needed or was it new guys trying to be tough?
Quote from: jhags15 on March 25, 2012, 02:49:14 PM
You think accusations of sexual assault are minor issues?
Of course not, which is why accusations shouldn't be made when nothing of the sort occurred
The concept that Buzz is "on a tighter leash" assumes that he wasn't on the same disciplinary page than the AD/Dean of Students/President.
That's unfounded, and completely preposterous.
"Aw schucks, I'm just a hick from the sticks."
Have seen this game played a few times, each time it has been just a persona played...
hope Buzz is different... think Buzz is different...
Topper....who would know better on handle a team than the person you hired to run the team? Very few of us understand the complexity of a modern day basketball team and aside from basic rules I think the cosch should be in charge. Buzz talking about the kids never being loved shows just how little most of us would know about these kids. Basic rules are known but if you do not allow your coaches flexibility no way can they recruit or compete.
I agree, but that has nothing to do with the point, so not sure what you expected out of your post.
Quote from: Goose on March 25, 2012, 06:09:33 PM
Hoop...agreed tighter leash if needed. Truthfully do you think our kids have behaved that badly that tighter leash was needed or was it new guys trying to be tough?
I do not know. I've only read what I see in the papers which was not the greatest publicity. I have heard other things, smoke where there is fire stuff, but do not know if it is true. By the reactions you and muguru are making from the administrative side, it leads me to believe that maybe some of those other things might be true.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on March 25, 2012, 07:51:22 PM
I do not know. I've only read what I see in the papers which was not the greatest publicity. I have heard other things, smoke where there is fire stuff, but do not know if it is true. By the reactions you and muguru are making from the administrative side, it leads me to believe that maybe some of those other things might be true.
Why? Because they posted it on this message board?
Quote from: Goose on March 25, 2012, 02:40:24 PM
I think the biggest problem MU has had over the years is how they identify themselves as a program. I was listening to Roy Williams talk about Kansas and how he feels about that the program he left. He said it is OK to love two universities. Of all of former coaches how many do you think still love our university? To me the answer is none, with exception to Majerus for different reasons, and thst speaks volumes to me. Coaches come and go at many schools but I am afraid our culture is not one that embraces our coaches.
Tom Crean still loves Marquette. The feeling is obviously not mutual, but I've separately discussed it with two people close to Crean (one a former MU player) who said that Crean definitely roots for MU and misses MU.