http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/george_dohrmann/03/19/West.regional.reset/index.html?sct=hp_t13_a3&eref=sihp
interesting take on the MU-UF matchup:
Team with the Most at Stake
Marquette
Crowder and stellar guard Darius Johnson-Odom are seniors, and the law of averages suggests that Marquette will take a significant step back next year without them. Marquette isn't like Michigan State, which seems to be in position to make the Elite Eight almost every year. When the Golden Eagles get an opportunity like this, they need to seize it."
that's an interesting perspective, but probably true. let's hope the seniors recognize this as their time and seize the opportunity.
Quote from: JTBMU7 on March 19, 2012, 09:39:11 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/george_dohrmann/03/19/West.regional.reset/index.html?sct=hp_t13_a3&eref=sihp
interesting take on the MU-UF matchup:
Team with the Most at Stake
Marquette
Crowder and stellar guard Darius Johnson-Odom are seniors, and the law of averages suggests that Marquette will take a significant step back next year without them. Marquette isn't like Michigan State, which seems to be in position to make the Elite Eight almost every year. When the Golden Eagles get an opportunity like this, they need to seize it."
that's an interesting perspective, but probably true. let's hope the seniors recognize this as their time and seize the opportunity.
Considering those two are half our offense that is hardly enlightening commentary from SI. It is a little scary though.
Only argument is this. I was super down on MU in Buzz's second year when we lost the three amigos. We had a nice season.
In Buzz we trust
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 19, 2012, 09:42:54 PMOnly argument is this. I was super down on MU in Buzz's second year when we lost the three amigos. We had a nice season.
In Buzz we trust
I agree. Vander has taken some tremendous strides when it comes to scoring, Todd and Jamil both look capable of carrying a heavier load, and I don't know that there's a more reliable low-post scorer in the country than Gardner. Add in the natural development of the rest of the roster, and we'll be fine. I think we'll find ourselves ranked for much of the season next year, and don't think that the Sweet 16 or further will be an unreachable task.
Fair enough but Marquette was also going to be in trouble after Diener when they only had a spot-up shooter and 3 freshmen...then they were in trouble when those 3 freshmen graduated...then they were in trouble when Lazar moved on...then they were in trouble when Butler moved on...now they'll be in trouble next season without Crowder and DJO. If history tells us anything, Marquette is going to be just fine in 2012-13.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 19, 2012, 09:42:32 PM
Considering those two are half our offense that is hardly enlightening commentary from SI. It is a little scary though.
To Marquette fandom, yeah. To the rest of the country, it could be news.
Sorry... but I'm not going to put any stock into anything written by a guy who chose the penname "Dohrmann."
Meh. I have been hearing the same sh!t since for years.
Oh Marquette is going to suck next year when the amigos graduate. Oh man, how in the world is Marquette going to replace LAZAR HAYWARD?! Holy buckets, Jimmy Butler is good at all facets of the game; he will leave a huge hole for Marquette to fill!!
Not buying it anymore. Guys step up.
LEGGGGOOOO MARQUETTE!
Quote from: JTBMU7 on March 19, 2012, 09:39:11 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/george_dohrmann/03/19/West.regional.reset/index.html?sct=hp_t13_a3&eref=sihp
interesting take on the MU-UF matchup:
Team with the Most at Stake
Marquette
Crowder and stellar guard Darius Johnson-Odom are seniors, and the law of averages suggests that Marquette will take a significant step back next year without them. Marquette isn't like Michigan State, which seems to be in position to make the Elite Eight almost every year. When the Golden Eagles get an opportunity like this, they need to seize it."
that's an interesting perspective, but probably true. let's hope the seniors recognize this as their time and seize the opportunity.
Personally i think we will still be good. Less offensive but by far better defensively... I keep envisioning the Pitt of 2007-2011, style wise . And the term "zero margin for error" will be in vogue again
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 19, 2012, 09:51:21 PM
I agree. Vander has taken some tremendous strides when it comes to scoring, Todd and Jamil both look capable of carrying a heavier load, and I don't know that there's a more reliable low-post scorer in the country than Gardner. Add in the natural development of the rest of the roster, and we'll be fine. I think we'll find ourselves ranked for much of the season next year, and don't think that the Sweet 16 or further will be an unreachable task.
Vanders development is gonna be huge for next season. If he can be more consistent around the rim, I think Mayo and Blue will be able to put great pressure on the drive. And then if Jones and Anderson can be solid role players and one surprise new comer, we keep on rolling.
Seriously, all but 4 or 5 programs can legitimately say they have a shot to win it all year in and out. On paper, yeah, we probably won't be as good next year (as of march 18, 2012). but so what. Building a program is about consistency and winning. Buzz has shown he can win with perceived talented teams (big three) and with less talented teams (year after w zar).
So be it. Everyone loves an underdog and if the team is scrappy and fights and has heart....you know, like all buzz teams to date...we will be in good hands.
That lazar lead team is one of my favorite of all time.
Reality check SI -- Coaches ask different players to do different things based on the talent at hand. You'd be surprised at what someone can do, when they're able and asked to do it.
I wondered about this year when last year's leader Jimmy Butler left for the NBA.
I wondered about past years when the Amigos left and Hayward wasn't around. But players step up. We've done fine and we'll do fine next year!
For instance....
I like Jamil and think he can step up to replace some of Jae's production.
I like the idea of a whole year of Chris Otule next year. We'll need him! And if Davante continues to be Buzz's Six Sigma project....!
Vander and Junior will be just fine, thank you very much. And Todd Mayo is just a freshman -- and we all know what Al said about freshmen!
We're losing a lot this year. But we have a lot to look forward to next year.. and the year after!
Next year expectations will be down, but just compare the rosters between what we have for next year and what Lazar had to work with when the 3 amigos left. Buzz has us positioned well for the next few years.
Oh forgot about Otule...
Actually feel really good about our prospects next year. Davante will be providing some solid minutes. If Jamil were to step up in place of Crowder, we'll be just fine.
Next year will be the first year of Buzz recruiting classes that MU will have more than one Top 100 player as an upperclassman (Jr, Jamil, Vander, Jamail). Plus Otule, Gardner, and eight other players
/filed under "why MU will be better than you think"
Don't forget about Taylor. He is going to be a very good guard for MU the next 3 years.
MU will be good next year, but different. I have confidence in Buzz and the players to keep it going year in and year out.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 19, 2012, 09:51:21 PM
I agree. Vander has taken some tremendous strides when it comes to scoring, Todd and Jamil both look capable of carrying a heavier load, and I don't know that there's a more reliable low-post scorer in the country than Gardner. Add in the natural development of the rest of the roster, and we'll be fine. I think we'll find ourselves ranked for much of the season next year, and don't think that the Sweet 16 or further will be an unreachable task.
Agreed, I believe we will be better than our no. 17 Pomeroy entering next yeRs tournament. When you track player progression from year to year, the jumps are amazing, sob
A team that loses only 2 players - even as great as djo and crowder _ lost always gets better because they have 8 or 9 players getting better. When you consider everyone on our roster has potential. And chris and Jake have excellent abilities, I've always thought we'd improve.
The difference between those we have to replace next year and those we had to replace in other recent years is the lack of proven talent ready to step up.
Wade and Jackson left; we had Diener and Novak.
Diener left; we had Novak (as well as a heralded recruiting class).
Novak left; we had Matthews, James and McNeal.
Matthews, James, McNeal left; we had Hayward and a rising Butler.
Hayward left; we had Butler and DJO.
Butler left; we had DJO and Crowder.
When DJO and Crowder leave, will we have any players as proven as Diener, Novak, Matthews, James, McNeal, Hayward, Butler, DJO and Crowder were at this stage of the above scenarios?
Certainly not offensively; it's not even close. Defensively, we'll be able to get after people.
I just think we will take a step back next season because that's what happens in most programs sometimes. It will be unrealistic to expect more than 20 wins.
Then again ...
Maybe one or more of the newcomers will be ready for Big East wars. Maybe Mayo will be even better than he was in the first half of this season. Maybe Vander will work like a demon all offseason and become more of an offensive threat. Maybe Jamil can do a passable Jae imitation. Maybe there's more to Jamail and Juan than we have seen. Maybe Otule will be fully healthy and the Otule-Gardner combo will be lethal.
That's a lot of maybes. Maybe one or two of them will come to fruition, we'll win 25-plus and I'll look back on this and say: "Maybe I was wrong about taking a step back in 2012-13."
You guys are all underestimating the value of having a senior point guard. Next year we will have Serior Cadougan leading the team.
Agree with the idea that MU will be fine going forward. It's definitely scary every time you think of losing guys like DJO and Crowder, but I think back to the past and how I've felt this way countless times and how we've been fine.
I think the bigger concern is the conference switchup. Losing 3 quality opponents and replacing them with lesser teams is going to make the road to the tournament tougher. Essentially, every game against Vill, Lou, or ND is going to become that much more important to win, because you aren't going to have as many chances to get quality W's, and a lot more chances to get bad L's. I
In theory we should be at least near the top of the BE consistently, but we saw the lack of respect that USF got beating up on the softies this year.
Also J. Wilson will be playing his natural position. That is a luxury we didn't have with Lazar and Jimmy. I think he will thrive next year.
Quote from: nnovak8 on March 20, 2012, 08:43:50 AM
In theory we should be at least near the top of the BE consistently, but we saw the lack of respect that USF got beating up on the softies this year.
USF also was not respected because they are USF. If Pitt or Louisville or Georgetown played that same schedule and had the same results, you can bet they would have gotten a much higher seed than 12.
Case in point, USF and Cincinnati had similar overall records, the same conf record, similar RPIs and 3 "bad" losses with 6 and 7 quality wins, respectively. USF also had a significantly higher SOS and they beat Cincy head-to-head.
USF: 12-seed
Cincy: 6-seed
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2012, 08:03:00 AM
The difference between those we have to replace next year and those we had to replace in other recent years is the lack of proven talent ready to step up.
Wade and Jackson left; we had Diener and Novak.
Diener left; we had Novak (as well as a heralded recruiting class).
Novak left; we had Matthews, James and McNeal.
Matthews, James, McNeal left; we had Hayward and a rising Butler.
Hayward left; we had Butler and DJO.
Butler left; we had DJO and Crowder.
When DJO and Crowder leave, will we have any players as proven as Diener, Novak, Matthews, James, McNeal, Hayward, Butler, DJO and Crowder were at this stage of the above scenarios?
Certainly not offensively; it's not even close. Defensively, we'll be able to get after people.
I just think we will take a step back next season because that's what happens in most programs sometimes. It will be unrealistic to expect more than 20 wins.
Then again ...
Maybe one or more of the newcomers will be ready for Big East wars. Maybe Mayo will be even better than he was in the first half of this season. Maybe Vander will work like a demon all offseason and become more of an offensive threat. Maybe Jamil can do a passable Jae imitation. Maybe there's more to Jamail and Juan than we have seen. Maybe Otule will be fully healthy and the Otule-Gardner combo will be lethal.
That's a lot of maybes. Maybe one or two of them will come to fruition, we'll win 25-plus and I'll look back on this and say: "Maybe I was wrong about taking a step back in 2012-13."
Retrospectively, that is correct. DJO was in his 1st year the year after Hayward. Far from proven and not any different than Taylor - except Taylor was more highly rated out of HS when he signed with Oklahoma over MU. JWilson was similar to Butler the year after the Amigo's. Mayo could be similar to Butler, or moreso, as well.
You may be correct for next year, but at the time of those departures, the feelings were similar to this year.
Marquette won't have the "star power" next season but I think they'll be much more balanced offensively.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Jamil double his production next season to 14 points, 8 reb. There will also be more shots for Mayo and Gardner who can get their own shot and both of whom should avg double figures. I also expect Blue and Cadougan to each average 8-12 ppg. And that doesn't include Otule, Jamail, Juan, the Taylors, etc. MU might not be "3-seed good" next season but they'll be in the top 25 most of the season.
We'll have Jake Thomas. Game over.
Agree with what most have said. Should be fun to see who steps up next season. There was a similar article in my local paper here in Princeton with the teams ranked 1-16. We were 10th. What was really nice was the photo of DJO going in for one of his signature drives against Murray State which took up one fourth of the print page. Let'e enjoy the run and another fun season.
Gentlemen,
From the time Buzz took over as head coach, the press has grossly underestimated Marquette every year.
Keep in mind that many "experts" didn't even have Marquette in the top 25 in this years' preseason rankings - and that was with a healthy Otule and Gardner.
I don't let it bother me anymore. Next year as always, we will greatly exceed expectations.
Quote from: MUMac on March 20, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
Retrospectively, that is correct. DJO was in his 1st year the year after Hayward. Far from proven and not any different than Taylor - except Taylor was more highly rated out of HS when he signed with Oklahoma over MU. JWilson was similar to Butler the year after the Amigo's. Mayo could be similar to Butler, or moreso, as well.
You may be correct for next year, but at the time of those departures, the feelings were similar to this year.
You can replace scoring but its hard to replace leadership. The departure of the 3 amigos is similiar (probably even a bigger hole) BUT Lazar turned out to be an OUTSTANDING team leader. I would argue the big difference in this team's success all year was Crowder's leadership. They say the best teams are those where the best player is the leader. Who will be the leader next year, Junior is the most likely. Can he be what Lazar was and what Crowder is. Pretty tall order.
I think Junior can definitely be a leader. Buzz clearly believes in the kid and I think the players recognize that and that goes a long way.
I'm predicting that this time next year we are talking about what an amazing season Jamil had and how as good as we thought he was, we didn't see it coming.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on March 20, 2012, 10:18:07 AM
You can replace scoring but its hard to replace leadership. The departure of the 3 amigos is similiar (probably even a bigger hole) BUT Lazar turned out to be an OUTSTANDING team leader. I would argue the big difference in this team's success all year was Crowder's leadership. They say the best teams are those where the best player is the leader. Who will be the leader next year, Junior is the most likely. Can he be what Lazar was and what Crowder is. Pretty tall order.
I agree and every year we are concerned about who will fill the leadership void. I think the tradition started long ago, but the Seniors pass that torch on. The coaches make sure someone is there to accept it. They tell them, "this is your team now". I expect Junior to be that person. Maybe with Otule, Blue and Wilson as well.
I am not concerned about the leadership, but again it will be different. It will be fun to watch this develop next year. And I guarantee we will see a thread questionning who the leader is and why they haven't stepped up. Later in the year, we will see another thread wondering how we will replace the leadership from that team.
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2012, 08:03:00 AM
The difference between those we have to replace next year and those we had to replace in other recent years is the lack of proven talent ready to step up.
Wade and Jackson left; we had Diener and Novak.
And what followed were two 19-12, NIT seasons, with an 8-8 and 7-9 record in C-USA. But I think Buzz has built a stronger foundation - don't see us sinking that low in spite of much tougher competition.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 19, 2012, 09:51:41 PM
Fair enough but Marquette was also going to be in trouble after Diener when they only had a spot-up shooter and 3 freshmen...then they were in trouble when those 3 freshmen graduated...then they were in trouble when Lazar moved on...then they were in trouble when Butler moved on...now they'll be in trouble next season without Crowder and DJO. If history tells us anything, Marquette is going to be just fine in 2012-13.
This.
I feel good about returning Junior, Vander, Otule, Gardner, Mayo and Jamil. And that's not even counting on any of our recruits for serious production.
We're definitely a tourney team next year. Sweet 16 for a third straight year? Probably not, but you never know who can take you for a run in March.
Those two post Wade seasons were in large part a function of Crean. Buzz is a different coach, I am not expecting the same drop-off. Personally I think our offense next year is going to revolve around Devante. His ability to score almost at will inside will open things up for Mayo, Blue, and Junior.
Quote from: PJDunn on March 20, 2012, 11:13:02 AM
Personally I think our offense next year is going to revolve around Devante. His ability to score almost at will inside will open things up for Mayo, Blue, and Junior.
Davante AND Otule, provided they both stay healthy.
We'll be tough to beat with those twin towers down low.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 19, 2012, 09:51:41 PM
Fair enough but Marquette was also going to be in trouble after Diener when they only had a spot-up shooter and 3 freshmen...then they were in trouble when those 3 freshmen graduated...then they were in trouble when Lazar moved on...then they were in trouble when Butler moved on...now they'll be in trouble next season without Crowder and DJO. If history tells us anything, Marquette is going to be just fine in 2012-13.
Depends on your definition of fine. None of those teams you mention were even remote Final Four threats, nor will next year's team be, which was the author's correct point.
I know a lot of you guys love Blue, and I respect that he has improved a great deal on offense, but be realistic. His improvement on offense has really just been from "horribly wretched" to "not terrible". He's not a particularly good shooter, ball handler or passer. What's left? He's a good defender/rebounder for his size, but he's got another big leap to make before you could classify him as "helpful" on offense.
I think Cadougan will be solid at the point and Otule/Gardner if healthy will combine for a darned good center. We will need J Wilson, Mayo and Blue to make large strides forward and Anderson/Jones or one of the newcomers to have a big impact. Even if all that happens, we probably won't be as good as this team is.
Quote from: MUMac on March 20, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
Retrospectively, that is correct. DJO was in his 1st year the year after Hayward. Far from proven and not any different than Taylor - except Taylor was more highly rated out of HS when he signed with Oklahoma over MU. JWilson was similar to Butler the year after the Amigo's. Mayo could be similar to Butler, or moreso, as well.
You may be correct for next year, but at the time of those departures, the feelings were similar to this year.
You are wrong about DJO. He was a sophomore when Hayward was a senior, and he had a darn good season as Hayward's teammate. He shot almost 50 percent from 3s, was the team's defensive player of the year and averaged 13 points. Among the returnees for next season, we have nobody even close to that in production.
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2012, 11:40:40 AM
You are wrong about DJO. He was a sophomore when Hayward was a senior, and he had a darn good season as Hayward's teammate. He shot almost 50 percent from 3s, was the team's defensive player of the year and averaged 13 points. Among the returnees for next season, we have nobody even close to that in production.
Yep, my bad. I forgot he played one year with Hayward.
Frankly, I am not concerned about MU scoring points. Buzz will find a way to get them in position to score. MU will have scorers. I believe Taylor will come in similarly to how DJO came into MU as a Sophomore. Mayo will be much improved. It is the intangibles I worry about more.