Always rooting for the Big East in the tournament makes me throw up in my mouth whenever it involves ND.
Would love for that little b!tch Tu to go home early again though. Gotta root for ND.
let's get another one of those upsets! all my first round upset picks didn't happen yesterday like they were supposed to. haha
Cant cheer for ND, just cant do it. Our team is good enough to stand on itself this year, dont need to anchor ourselves to how our conference does. On the other hand if your DePaul or Rutgers go right ahead.
I can never, ever, cheer for ND. Ever. Go Jesuits.
If you cheer for ND, turn in your diploma and exchange your man card for a .....card.
ND sucks. Did I mention, ND sucks? ;) ;) ;)
BTW, there are about 500 people (if even that) in the stands right now. What is that? I don't care if this is Greensboro and two Midwestern schools playing. This is the NCAA tournament and a match-up between two very good programs.
I also don't care that it was mostly Duke and Lehigh fans there. After we got our butts whipped in Newark last year I stuck around to watch OSU/UK. After we got our butts really whipped in NOLA in '03 I stuck around to watch SU/UT.
I'm about as sore a loser as they come, but good college hoops is good college hoops.
There has been a lot of empty seats in almost all the locations this weekend.
I cannot stand either team, but I guess I will go for ND since they are in the BigEast. Xavier fans absolutely cannot stand loosing to a BigEast team. They despise our conference so much because they are not in it. It is absolute outrageous how much they hate us, so it would be a little funny to see them lose AGAIN to a team from our conference.
I have too many Big Ten friends to root against the Big East. Sorry Guys
Quote from: Norm on March 16, 2012, 10:35:34 PM
There has been a lot of empty seats in almost all the locations this weekend.
There always is in the first round, save for the few ostensibly home sites for the big seeds.
Quote from: Donnybrook on March 16, 2012, 10:29:57 PM
BTW, there are about 500 people (if even that) in the stands right now. What is that? I don't care if this is Greensboro and two Midwestern schools playing. This is the NCAA tournament and a match-up between two very good programs.
I also don't care that it was mostly Duke and Lehigh fans there. After we got our butts whipped in Newark last year I stuck around to watch OSU/UK. After we got our butts really whipped in NOLA in '03 I stuck around to watch SU/UT.
I'm about as sore a loser as they come, but good college hoops is good college hoops.
It was like 90% Duke fans. They were a 2 seed and lost to a 15 seed. It's the first round. If MU was playing in Chicago at 6 and was a 2 seed and lost to Lehigh I'd leave and drive back. No way I'd stay. Now if I were a 3 seed and lost the 1st Final 4 game or 11 seed and lost the 1st Sweet 16 game there's a difference.
Dook fans are driving home and drinking their sorrows away. The few Lehigh fans are out at the bars partying like crazy. I'd be doing the same in either of their spots. After MU beat Xavier I stuck around for about 5 minutes of warmups for the Cuse/Indiana State game and was way too amped up to stay, so I left and went out in Cleveland last year. No way I was sitting through an entire 40 minute warmup and 2 hour game after a nice "upset."
60-60. Gonna be a great finish.
What a terrible call. I cannot believe it. Unspeakable. Celebrity refs.
Quote from: Warrior1 on March 16, 2012, 11:20:35 PM
What a terrible call. I cannot believe it. Unspeakable. Celebrity refs.
Absolutely correct call. How dumb do you have to be to repeat the exact same thing that got everyone in a fit last night?
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 16, 2012, 11:21:18 PM
Absolutely correct call. How dumb do you have to be to repeat the exact same thing that got everyone in a fit last night?
No way!? Who went in early? The announcers say the rule is that the man beyond the three point line cannot run in until the ball is released and he did not, but did run in before the ball hit the rim. What is the rule?
Xavier scores the last 7 to win it. Another Jesuit school advances.
Quote from: Warrior1 on March 16, 2012, 11:22:03 PM
No way!? Who went in early?
22.... You cannot enter the 3-point line until the ball touches the rim.
Quote from: WildBill77RT on March 16, 2012, 11:24:23 PM
22.... You cannot enter the 3-point line until the ball touches the rim.
Ah, this explains it. Announcers stated it was until the ball is released...
I think it is you can't go past the free throw line before it hits the rim if you start beyond the three point line.
You don't make that call when the shot went in. Agree with Barkley for once on his rant.
Quote from: chapman on March 16, 2012, 11:28:28 PM
You don't make that call when the shot went in. Agree with Barkley for once on his rant.
Not a big Notre Dame fan but I unfortunately have to agree. If the shot is missed then you call it. If it is made you take the guy aside and tell him "don't do that".
On the other hand, you have to know the rules. Tough call.
Quote from: chapman on March 16, 2012, 11:28:28 PM
You don't make that call when the shot went in. Agree with Barkley for once on his rant.
+1.
I think they were making up for the foul call on Xavier. ND guy was way out of control on the drive, but gets bailed out with the foul call. Seems like the zebras were looking for a reason to reverse that one.
According to the article I just read about the Syracuse game, a player behind the three point line cannot cross the free-throw line before the ball hits the rim. I just watched the game in slow-motion, and it is EXTREMELY close. We are talking you could watch it 100 times and still not truly know.
Edit - Watched it again, did get one foot across.
How do you make that call?
Maybe it was the right call. You still don't make it. You let the 10 guys playing the game decide the outcome. I love to see Notre Dame lose. But not like this.
I went back and looked at the Xavier free throw that preceded Atkins and the Xavier kid did the same thing. That was an awful way to end a great game.
I despise nd. That said, u let the players finish that game. If it were us on the losing end of that? Good God this board would blow up!
Quote from: wadesworld on March 16, 2012, 10:43:10 PM
It was like 90% Duke fans. They were a 2 seed and lost to a 15 seed. It's the first round. If MU was playing in Chicago at 6 and was a 2 seed and lost to Lehigh I'd leave and drive back. No way I'd stay. Now if I were a 3 seed and lost the 1st Final 4 game or 11 seed and lost the 1st Sweet 16 game there's a difference.
Dook fans are driving home and drinking their sorrows away. The few Lehigh fans are out at the bars partying like crazy. I'd be doing the same in either of their spots. After MU beat Xavier I stuck around for about 5 minutes of warmups for the Cuse/Indiana State game and was way too amped up to stay, so I left and went out in Cleveland last year. No way I was sitting through an entire 40 minute warmup and 2 hour game after a nice "upset."
I live a 15 minute walk from Penn Station. I was travelling on business the week of the MU/UNC game. Flew into LGA an hour & 15 prior to game time, booked it to Newark, planes, trains & automobiles style, slipped in across the street of the Rock 20 before game time for two quickies (NCAA no alcohol) and watched our a$$es get kicked. I wanted nothing more than to go home after that tough loss but stuck around because college hoops is a beautiful game. Looking at seedings is a moot point, this is the NCAA tournament. Sop up every moment. Did I have sour grapes, F* yeah. Did I leave. F* no!
ND became the dumbest team in America in the last 10 seconds tonight.
Saint mary's got called for a travel on the baseline at the end of that game. Should that one have been overlooked too? Rules are the rules. This isn't playground ball. ND gave that game away after taking a 63-60 lead.
ND is ND. We are Marquette. I am thrilled the Choking Irish lost.
As for letting the players decide the game, all Notre Dame had to do was not airmail that pass out of bounds a little earlier when they had the lead and the ball, and maybe they wouldn't have needed it to come down to a call in the closing seconds. ND had the game in their hands and they pissed it away. Refs don't decide games. ND led most of the game and made too many mistakes to win.
As for the call, it was a huge story just 24 hours earlier in the Syracuse game. It was the correct call both times. Grant was well past the line. Just because Brey and his coaches didn't emphasize it, it doesn't mean the refs should ignore it. It was a great call and a gutsy call.
Charles didn't like the intentional foul when ND reached out and grabbed the jersey right in front of the ref before the inbounds pass, either. That also was a perfect call. Just because Charles doesn't like something, it doesn't mean it's wrong. He thinks all three refs should swallow their whistles in the final minute of a close game. I love Charles, but that's stupid.
ND loses early in the tourney again. The only thing any real Marquette fan can say is: "Yes!"
Quote from: SoCalEagle on March 16, 2012, 11:53:56 PM
Saint mary's got called for a travel on the baseline at the end of that game. Should that one have been overlooked too? Rules are the rules. This isn't playground ball. ND gave that game away after taking a 63-60 lead.
I hate this reasoning. Rules infractions are committed on every posession, whether it's a carry, travel, 3 seconds, 5 seconds, foul, etc. The refs cant, and dont, make every one of these calls. Its the ref's job to call it equally of both sides of the court and make sure the game is safe and both teams are on a level playing field. They never make every call. In fact, they missed the exact same one on Xavier right before this, as was mentioned. You don't make these kinds of calls at the end of games.
So you (as a ref) see the travel on the baseline by saint mary's, but you don't make the call because it's a close game and you want to let them play? Why ignore the rules because it's close at the end?
Ummm, no. You do not call the meaningless lane violation that you did not call on the previous play and probably have not called a million times before.
It doesn't matter. I remember seeing this called when I was in the 6th grade (23 years ago) and to this day I know to not enter the 3-point area during a free throw. Rules are rules, don't hedge your bets when the game is on the line.
-STUPID pass
-Lane violation
-Obvious intentional foul
ND got what they deserved. They played dumb in the last minute and lost.
Meaningless? I guarantee you it's not meaningless to the other team. What other violations are not to be called at the end of a game? 3 seconds? Over and back? You're just opening a can of worms if you see a violation and decide not to call it.
The call has to be made. "Letting players play at the end" generally means not calling a ticky tack foul, but it doesn't mean you overlook other, obvious violations.
And by the way, MU DID lose on a call like this...when Lazar stepped over the end line against Mizzou. That call needed to be made then, and it need to be made yesterday.
If Murray St crosses the line early at the end of today's game, you damn skippy the refs should be calling it.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 17, 2012, 06:24:59 AM
The call has to be made. "Letting players play at the end" generally means not calling a ticky tack foul, but it doesn't mean you overlook other, obvious violations.
This. Exactly.
Here's hoping Junior doesn't throw a pass 20 feet over Jae's head when we have the lead and the ball in the final seconds. If our lads take care of their business, I won't worry about the refs taking care of their business.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 17, 2012, 06:38:41 AM
And by the way, MU DID lose on a call like this...when Lazar stepped over the end line against Mizzou. That call needed to be made then, and it need to be made yesterday.
+1000
That's the first thing I thought of, before laughing my ass off at ND losing. It really sucked, but you can't NOT call that, be it lane violation, travelling, reach in foul, etc.
If I can chime in on this captivating "College Basketball Refereeing Ethics 101" discussion section--the kid committed a lane violation. There is no doubt that was the correct call, just like the kid from St. Mary's travelled. Ironically, isn't this the very thing lots of folks use to bitch about the NBA--that the refs never call anything?
Also, it's Notre Dame. I am ELATED they lost. F*** 'EM.
Quote from: lab_warrior on March 17, 2012, 09:32:21 AMAlso, it's Notre Dame. I am ELATED they lost. F*** 'EM.
In general, I always cheer for the Big East in the tournament, if for no other reason than the tourney credits we receive for league wins. But I'm never that upset when ND goes out, because they're ND.
And today, I decided to look up their tourney record, because they always seem to go out early. Since they were dumped in the first round in 1988, they have only made the Sweet 16 once in 10 appearances. Buzz has as many Sweet 16s in 4 years as ND does in 24 years. And if he wins today...
Yeah, ND sucks.
When Lazar stepped over the line, we still needed to go 94 feet in 5 seconds, get a FG to send it in to overtime. Chances of that happening are not impossible .. not great, either.
I submit that's quite different from the ND situation, where NOT calling that lane violation .. ND would have been down just 1 point with 3 seconds to go and another FT coming .. so, say 70-80% chance they hit the FT and slim chance they DON'T go to OT.
On a purely procedural call that had nothing to do with the actual play, by a matter of perhaps 6 inches .. the refs stopped ND from having a pretty good chance.
Quote from: SoCalEagle on March 17, 2012, 01:09:33 AM
Meaningless? I guarantee you it's not meaningless to the other team. What other violations are not to be called at the end of a game? 3 seconds? Over and back? You're just opening a can of worms if you see a violation and decide not to call it.
Actually, the ref opened a can of worms by making the call. I guaranty no one would be talking about that play if the ref had done nothing. (OK - maybe Seth Davis would.) The ball goes through the hoop. Atkins takes the second shot. Either he misses it or makes it and the game goes on.
No one on XU, no XU fan, is going to complain that there was a lane violation on a made free throw and attribute losing to the uncalled lane violation.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 17, 2012, 10:15:46 AM
When Lazar stepped over the line, we still needed to go 94 feet in 5 seconds, get a FG to send it in to overtime. Chances of that happening are not impossible .. not great, either.
I submit that's quite different from the ND situation, where NOT calling that lane violation .. ND would have been down just 1 point with 3 seconds to go and another FT coming .. so, say 70-80% chance they hit the FT and slim chance they DON'T go to OT.
On a purely procedural call that had nothing to do with the actual play, by a matter of perhaps 6 inches .. the refs stopped ND from having a pretty good chance.
Wait...are you using this as the justification for swallowing the whistle? Who cares how good of a chance it is. If Xavier would have lost because they didn't make the correct call, that's a bigger screwing than the call against ND.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 17, 2012, 10:15:46 AM
On a purely procedural call that had nothing to do with the actual play, by a matter of perhaps 6 inches .. the refs stopped ND from having a pretty good chance.
Out of curiosity - if the ND player down on the block had stepped in early (before the shot was released) would you have had a problem with it being called - even if the subsequent FT was a make?
As the probability of definitively swaying the game goes up, the refs should swallow their whistle more, on meaningless infractions.
MU was probably going to lose anyhow .. the ref calling Lazar's infraction likely didn't affect the outcome. ND was probably going to tie, the ref's call negated that.
Filed under: let the kids play.
There are literally hundreds of uncalled infractions ignored in each game because they are minor. Calling one that literally changes the outcome of the game .. no one wants that.
Now, I understand calling a contact foul, sure. Someone gets mugged on the last second shot, I'm fine with calling that.
This was meaningless infraction on a made FT that as karavotsos wrote, no one in the building would have noticed or complained about.
Quote from: NCAARules on March 17, 2012, 11:08:48 AM
Out of curiosity - if the ND player down on the block had stepped in early (before the shot was released) would you have had a problem with it being called - even if the subsequent FT was a make?
I would.
Orenze Onuaku foot-faulted on every free throw he attempted for his entire senior year, and it was never called. (It went untested in the NCAA tournament because he injured his knee.) Since then I have been of the opinion that at least 95% of free throw lane violations are inconsequential and go uncalled. If you watch games, guys go into the lane early all the time. The only time the lane violation call is really made is when you have a free throw shooter who has a hitch in his shot and guys are falling all over each other trying not to go in the lane early. No one complains about lane violations not being called. It has just become part of the game.
To start making the call in the final seconds of a game is ridiculous.
Also, if pulling on a jersey is an intentional foul, shouldn't Wisconsin average 5-6 intentional fouls per game?
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 17, 2012, 11:24:31 AM
As the probability of definitively swaying the game goes up, the refs should swallow their whistle more, on meaningless infractions.
What if he would have missed the FT, and the guy who entered the lane early got the rebound and score the winning basket? That is no longer a "meaningless" infraction.
Quote from: karavotsos on March 17, 2012, 11:27:27 AM
Also, if pulling on a jersey is an intentional foul, shouldn't Wisconsin average 5-6 intentional fouls per game?
That is as intentional of a foul as it gets. You can't stop a guy from running to get open on an inbound pass. If the guy doesn't grab his jersey they inbound it and run up the court and run time out. You have to give them a chance to get the ball in and foul.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on March 16, 2012, 11:46:32 PM
I despise nd. That said, u let the players finish that game. If it were us on the losing end of that? Good God this board would blow up!
We have been on the losing end of a call like that. Remember the Lazar traveling on the baseline?
And i disagree with you. You make the call as the rule presents itself. If someone breaks the rule, it does not matter if their is 19 Min or .19 seconds
Quote from: real chili 83 on March 16, 2012, 09:35:59 PM
If you cheer for ND, turn in your diploma and exchange your man card for a .....card.
ND sucks. Did I mention, ND sucks? ;) ;) ;)
Plus 100000000
Quote from: SoCalEagle on March 16, 2012, 11:34:48 PM
I think they were making up for the foul call on Xavier. ND guy was way out of control on the drive, but gets bailed out with the foul call. Seems like the zebras were looking for a reason to reverse that one.
They were not making up for anything. A make up call is making a mistake because you made a mistake against the other team. The ND player flat out broke the rules!!
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 17, 2012, 01:23:05 PM
We have been on the losing end of a call like that. Remember the Lazar traveling on the baseline?
He stepped over the end line.
And what if the referees ignored that rule and MU would have hit a shot to win? The Mizzou fans would have a completely legitimate reason to be pissed.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 17, 2012, 01:30:27 PM
He stepped over the end line.
And what if the referees ignored that rule and MU would have hit a shot to win? The Mizzou fans would have a completely legitimate reason to be pissed.
+1
It's a MUCH bigger deal if you miss a call than it is if you make the correct call at a time when some fans think you should let it go.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 17, 2012, 10:15:46 AM
On a purely procedural call that had nothing to do with the actual play, by a matter of perhaps 6 inches .. the refs stopped ND from having a pretty good chance.
No, the kid who entered the lane too soon stopped ND from having a pretty good chance.
zzzzzzzz. Don't panic and piss it away when you have the lead and the ball, and the refs have nothing to do with the conversation. Control what you can control. Notre Dame didn't. Buh-bye.