For a few reasons...
- Expending that much energy and emotion into a comeback is gonna leave those cats drained come Thursday.
- BYU's zone was effective, but it's not the zone that has given MU trouble this season. Teams with a ton of length give MU trouble with a zone. BYU isn't one of those teams.
- MU gets to play their game, at their pace. We all saw what speeding BYU up did. MU can use that to their advantage. I'm not sure they would have been able to run with Iona.
agree with you. their transition d wasn't very good. half court trap sprinkled in should be effective. If we're hitting outside this should be a win.
In addition, when we have to play half-court, we don't completely suck ass. While I think BYU was underseeded, I also feel their resume didn't merit an at-large bid. I feel pretty good about MU's odds of reinforcing that belief.
Also, we'll see much more Davante.
Quote from: MUfan12 on March 13, 2012, 11:10:38 PM
For a few reasons...
- Expending that much energy and emotion into a comeback is gonna leave those cats drained come Thursday.
- BYU's zone was effective, but it's not the zone that has given MU trouble this season. Teams with a ton of length give MU trouble with a zone. BYU isn't one of those teams.
- MU gets to play their game, at their pace. We all saw what speeding BYU up did. MU can use that to their advantage. I'm not sure they would have been able to run with Iona.
Ummmm..... BYU is the 21st tallest team in the country. Hartsock & Davies go 6'8" and 6'9". Hartsock reminded me of that goateed mop top Hamilton from LSU that destroyed us with 15 foot jumpers down the stretch. We would have absolutely ROCKED Iona. I still absolutely expect a win, but BYU is a worse matchup for us.
I think the key to the BYU-MU game will be keeping Crowder and J Wilson out of foul trouble. If those guys don't have to sit for extended periods of time, and Gardner sees about 15 minutes of action, I think MU can win. BYU's big guys are 6'9" and 6'8", not 6'11" or 7'0". While good, they are also not as athletic as the big guys on Syracuse, Georgetown, LSU, Washington and other teams who have given us trouble inside.
Quote from: Jamailman on March 13, 2012, 11:18:54 PM
Ummmm..... BYU is the 21st tallest team in the country. Hartsock & Davies go 6'8" and 6'9". Hartsock reminded me of that goateed mop top Hamilton from LSU that destroyed us with 15 foot jumpers down the stretch. We would have absolutely ROCKED Iona. I still absolutely expect a win, but BYU is a worse matchup for us.
They have size up front, but their guards/wings aren't as long (or quick) as the guys from Cuse, or Cincy for instance. Those two teams killed MU with that length at the top of the zone.
Our guard play should be superior. Plus Cadougan won't have to face Machado.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 13, 2012, 11:28:55 PM
Our guard play should be superior. Plus Cadougan won't have to face Machado.
Machado didn't do sh*t in the half court. Cadougan would have held up just fine.
BYU was playing zone, homie.
If Buzz didn't go zone(would have been insane not to though), Cadougan would get shredded by Machado much like BYU did for the first 15 minutes before they went zone.
Quote from: MUfan12 on March 13, 2012, 11:27:06 PM
They have size up front, but their guards/wings aren't as long (or quick) as the guys from Cuse, or Cincy for instance. Those two teams killed MU with that length at the top of the zone.
Right. I'm just saying they present a worse matchup for MU than Iona would have. Check my posts, even at halftime I didn't think Iona would be much trouble. I don't necessarily think BYU will be all that much trouble either, it's just that they more closely resemble teams that gave MU trouble, while Iona more closely resembled DePaul coming out draining everything then when things finally settled down they couldn't do a damn thing.
Quote from: Jamailman on March 13, 2012, 11:31:37 PM
Machado didn't do sh*t in the half court. Cadougan would have held up just fine.
Doubt it
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 13, 2012, 11:35:34 PM
BYU was playing zone, homie.
If Buzz didn't go zone(would have been insane not to though), Cadougan would get shredded by Machado much like BYU did for the first 15 minutes before they went zone.
I think we agree chances are close to 100% that MU would have went zone. Ergo, Cadougan would have held up just fine. We matched up very well with Iona.
Quote from: GOMU85 on March 13, 2012, 11:36:18 PM
Doubt it
Nice analysis! Your posting history reveals you as quite a deep thinker.
I also think BYU is a tougher match up. They have some size, they are balanced and can shoot it from every position. They move the ball well around the perimiter. Iona was god awful in the half court. We would have eaten them alive. Jae woulda had 20 and 13 if he played drunk
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 13, 2012, 11:52:46 PM
I also think BYU is a tougher match up. They have some size, they are balanced and can shoot it from every position. They move the ball well around the perimiter. Iona was god awful in the half court. We would have eaten them alive. Jae woulda had 20 and 13 if he played drunk
My thoughts exactly, right down to Crowder's line while drunk.
I was a little torn watching this game.
At first I was nervous about playing Iona because they were flying but the 2nd half revealed them as a not particularly smart team and smart teams tend to win in March.
BYU seemed smarter and a little more stable of a team so by the end of the game I was half-hoping Iona would pull it out because BYU probably ends up not being quite as good a matchup for us.
Either way MU needs to and should win; we are a better team than either of them, but all of our boys need to be on top of their game (not just Junior) right from the start, come out strong, and show them right away that we are a 3 seed for a reason.
If we come out sloppy, let them get ahead early, that Murray State crowd is going to feed off the possible brewing upset and will rapidly turn against us.
I hope Buzz has them ready from the opening tip.
Go Warriors!!
The thing I noticed was, while BYU was the smarter team, they were also the most flustered by pressure. When they were pressured, they tried to play too fast and "match" and would chuck up bad shots or pass into double teams. The 3/4 press is going to be a big weapon as well as dictating the tempo of the game. While I understand BYU supposedly plays a fast game, when combined with pressure it seems to fall apart.
Should be a very interesting one. With regard to Thursday, in the immortal words of Bart Scott: CAN'T WAIT.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 13, 2012, 11:52:46 PM
Jae woulda had 20 and 13 if he played drunk
Hopefully Junior isn't with Jae having a few chilly ones before the game tomorrow. Jae can handle it. Junior? Not so much.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 14, 2012, 01:00:48 AM
The thing I noticed was, while BYU was the smarter team, they were also the most flustered by pressure. When they were pressured, they tried to play too fast and "match" and would chuck up bad shots or pass into double teams. The 3/4 press is going to be a big weapon as well as dictating the tempo of the game. While I understand BYU supposedly plays a fast game, when combined with pressure it seems to fall apart.
Should be a very interesting one. With regard to Thursday, in the immortal words of Bart Scott: CAN'T WAIT.
This brings up a question for the stat people...
I don't get into a lot of that, but we all read that BYU has one of the highest amounts of possessions. Does that metric measure for tempo at all?
Reason I ask is that I saw a team that took a lot of quick shots, but didn't necessarily play fast. I could see how that would get the possession numbers way up, though.
Quote from: MUfan12 on March 14, 2012, 07:30:46 AM
This brings up a question for the stat people...
I don't get into a lot of that, but we all read that BYU has one of the highest amounts of possessions. Does that metric measure for tempo at all?
Reason I ask is that I saw a team that took a lot of quick shots, but didn't necessarily play fast. I could see how that would get the possession numbers way up, though.
Number of possessions is the metric for tempo. Taking quick shots means you play at a faster pace. BYU was definitely looking to push the ball and take quick shots in the first half. Once they slowed the game down in the second half the tide turned in their favor.
Quote from: Jamailman on March 14, 2012, 07:36:26 AM
Number of possessions is the metric for tempo. Taking quick shots means you play at a faster pace. BYU was definitely looking to push the ball and take quick shots in the first half. Once they slowed the game down in the second half the tide turned in their favor.
And herin lies the problem as I see it for BYU, and the reason superior talent should result in a win. If they try to play half court from the start, they have to defend the likes of DJO, Crowder, Blue, Wilson, etc. for the entire game. That will be tough. If they try to play transition with us, which they seemingly lie to do themselves, I don't think they have much of a chance.
Nothing for certain, but Marquette should win.
Logic tells me that BYU is the tougher opponent, but having watched us play stretches of loose transition D all year at times I was for some reason more scared to play Iona. If you play them both 10 times, BYU is going to give you the more consistent game, but Iona may just go off on you that one time, and I wasn't really wanting to roll the dice.
Being an 11 seed felt so much easier.......
Quote from: Jamailman on March 13, 2012, 11:38:24 PM
I think we agree chances are close to 100% that MU would have went zone. Ergo, Cadougan would have held up just fine. We matched up very well with Iona.
Buzz rarely has played zone here. I doubt that would have changed with Iona.
Quote from: Norm on March 13, 2012, 11:24:15 PM
I think the key to the BYU-MU game will be keeping Crowder and J Wilson out of foul trouble.
Norm, I think that's going to be the key to every game in the NCAA Tournament.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 14, 2012, 07:52:28 AM
And herin lies the problem as I see it for BYU, and the reason superior talent should result in a win. If they try to play half court from the start, they have to defend the likes of DJO, Crowder, Blue, Wilson, etc. for the entire game. That will be tough. If they try to play transition with us, which they seemingly lie to do themselves, I don't think they have much of a chance.
Nothing for certain, but Marquette should win.
I think MU runs more effectively than BYU, plays much better defense, and runs the half court offense at least as well. Plus, as Hilltopper said, these kids will be playing on no sleep and very little prep time for a very accomplished BEast power. One more thing. You know that the entire team was gathered with Buzz to watch the game last night and had to come away from that experience with a 'we better have our sh*t together' mindset. I'd expect a very spirited practice today in Louisville.
BYU can also shoot well from three. that can keep anyone in the game...
did anyone else notice the Iona just looked tired in the 2nd half? in the first, they'd get the rebound/inbound, and there would be 4 red jerseys streaking ahead of the ball with BYU players trailing. in the 2nd half, the ball was mostly beating offense down and had to wait. i wonder if they just totally gassed themselves in those first 16 min...
either way, BYU is good and we need to jump on them quick. if we can run it down their throats early like Iona did, i'd guess they won't have the energy to mount another crazy comeback...
3pt % for the year, BYU 34% to MU 33%.
They could get a lot better looks if we have to worry about the post, but their percentage might also account of not playing teams with as good of defense as we have.
I think the key is going to be keeping it close or even and then when we sprinkle in the press, going on runs that they can't counter.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 14, 2012, 08:11:32 AM
Buzz rarely has played zone here. I doubt that would have changed with Iona.
We played one against GTown at home in the half court and it worked quite well.
We didn't play zone against georgetown for any length of time. Perhaps for a possession or two as a change up but that's about it. And we would zone press that would fall back into a man too. We are almost exclusively a man team though.
I like the match with Iona better. Big Teams like BYU scare me. Hope MU is focused
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 14, 2012, 09:43:32 AM
We didn't play zone against georgetown for any length of time. Perhaps for a possession or two as a change up but that's about it. And we would zone press that would fall back into a man too. We are almost exclusively a man team though.
I realize we play 90%+ man. Just saying it is a tool in the toolbox that we have seen used effectively at times this season, and after watching Iona struggle to even get shots off before the shot clock expired wouldn't you expect to see at least SOME zone? Regardless, my point remains that once BYU turned it into a half court game Machado had 5 turnovers and one assist. Cadougan would not have been abused for any length of time unless Buzz had a brain aneurism.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 13, 2012, 11:52:46 PM
I also think BYU is a tougher match up. They have some size, they are balanced and can shoot it from every position. They move the ball well around the perimiter. Iona was god awful in the half court. We would have eaten them alive. Jae woulda had 20 and 13 if he played drunk
What if he wasn't drunk, but was only four feet tall? Then how many points and rebounds would he get?
Up until half time, we had people flopping in their pants about playing Iona. Then the refs stopped calling Iona's flops, and now people are flopping over BYU.
Welcome to MU Scoop.
BTW -- Last night's game was played as though either team deserved a 14 seed, and nothing more. Whatever the spread is, I'm taking MU to cover all day long.
Quote from: Norm on March 13, 2012, 11:24:15 PM
I think the key to the BYU-MU game will be keeping Crowder and J Wilson out of foul trouble. If those guys don't have to sit for extended periods of time, and Gardner sees about 15 minutes of action, I think MU can win. BYU's big guys are 6'9" and 6'8", not 6'11" or 7'0". While good, they are also not as athletic as the big guys on Syracuse, Georgetown, LSU, Washington and other teams who have given us trouble inside.
+1 on this
Quoted for Truth.
I am no expert on MU but given your talents, you should continue to do what you do best. BYU's strength is its frontline which includes Davies at 6'9", Hartsock at 6'8" and Austin at 6'11".
All can score and all will work hard for points, they draw fouls and tend to foul out the oppositions big men.
The remaining players have varying skills but it is BYU's discipline and scrappiness that allows it to win. That's why you bet on the most talented team, MU, but sometimes, less than forty percent of the time, see a scrappy team pull out a hard fought victory.
Quote from: Archaea on March 14, 2012, 11:32:59 AM
I am no expert on MU but given your talents, you should continue to do what you do best. BYU's strength is its frontline which includes Davies at 6'9", Hartsock at 6'8" and Austin at 6'11".
All can score and all will work hard for points, they draw fouls and tend to foul out the oppositions big men.
The remaining players have varying skills but it is BYU's discipline and scrappiness that allows it to win. That's why you bet on the most talented team, MU, but sometimes, less than forty percent of the time, see a scrappy team pull out a hard fought victory.
Respectfully Arch, there is no team in the nation that fights harder or is more scrappy than MU. BYU will not out work MU. And I'd anticipate your bigs to regularly have their pockets picked down low. They simply haven't seen hands as quick as Jae's. I also expect to pressure your guards into mistakes that lead to fast break buckets.
Quote from: jsglow on March 14, 2012, 12:05:52 PM
Respectfully Arch, there is no team in the nation that fights harder or is more scrappy than MU. BYU will not out work MU. And I'd anticipate your bigs to regularly have their pockets picked down low. They simply haven't seen hands as quick as Jae's. I also expect to pressure your guards into mistakes that lead to fast break buckets.
It may end up being a scrappy, bloodfest then. It may become a free throw shooting contest, which depending upon who is shooting can be an adventure this year. Fortunately, Hartsock is a good free throw shooter. Davies is inconsistent but improving.
I expect to see the ball stolen a few times as well. We've had some games where each team has had two to three players foul out.
is trolling an opponents message board a violation of BYU ethics?
Quote from: wyoMUfan on March 14, 2012, 12:18:30 PM
is trolling an opponents message board a violation of BYU ethics?
I suppose that question passes for humor, but please identify the trolling, as I have been respectful in my posts. Additionally, I am an alum, not a student. But in answer to your question thrown out in jest, the Honor Code has nothing to do with playful interaction with other fans.
Owning my own businesses allows me to waste my time as I please. No offense is intended in dialoguing about the upcoming game. A thread is started where I introduce my affinities.
Quote from: Jamailman on March 13, 2012, 11:39:59 PM
Nice analysis! Your posting history reveals you as quite a deep thinker.
Thanks
Quote from: wyoMUfan on March 14, 2012, 12:18:30 PM
is trolling an opponents message board a violation of BYU ethics?
Pay him no mind, Archaea .. he's just goofing with you.
Quote from: Archaea on March 14, 2012, 12:23:48 PM
I suppose that question passes for humor, but please identify the trolling, as I have been respectful in my posts. Additionally, I am an alum, not a student. But in answer to your question thrown out in jest, the Honor Code has nothing to do with playful interaction with other fans.
Owning my own businesses allows me to waste my time as I please. No offense is intended in dialoguing about the upcoming game. A thread is started where I introduce my affinities.
i posted before reading all your previous posts - troll comment taken back.
Quote from: Archaea on March 14, 2012, 12:23:48 PM
I suppose that question passes for humor, but please identify the trolling, as I have been respectful in my posts. Additionally, I am an alum, not a student. But in answer to your question thrown out in jest, the Honor Code has nothing to do with playful interaction with other fans.
Owning my own businesses allows me to waste my time as I please. No offense is intended in dialoguing about the upcoming game. A thread is started where I introduce my affinities.
Wow, so polite. We are not used to that here. Where is Z-F-B or ari gold when you need them.
Quote from: hairyworthen on March 14, 2012, 03:38:36 PM
Wow, so polite. We are not used to that here. Where is Z-F-B or ari gold when you need them.
Not to go off topic, well, I guess that is exactly what I am doing. This comment reminds me of a story I once heard. A friend of mine from Wisconsin was driving his vehicle in NYC. They stopped to let a car back out of a driveway to get on the road. When the car did that, the driver openned his window and said to the my friend "it's a$$holes like you that give us a bad name!".
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 14, 2012, 09:43:32 AM
We didn't play zone against georgetown for any length of time. Perhaps for a possession or two as a change up but that's about it. And we would zone press that would fall back into a man too. We are almost exclusively a man team though.
Pretty much why I was worried about Iona. Don't think Buzz would have gone zone for the whole/large portion of the game. Not that it's necessarily a bad, you want to have a base D. Can't think of a Buzz coached game where we've played majority zone and I would rather have not seen Machado and MoMo against Cadougan.