Last night vs Lousiville was a perfect example of why we are not/have a long way to go to becoming an ELITE program. We flat out layed an egg last night on national television. YES, we are 25-7 but records doesn't mean anything until we can CONSISTENTLY compete for a Big-East Championship, win a couple games in the NCAA tourney (final four runs would be nice) and most importantly recruit top 50 talent every year.
What are your thoughts?
If Buzz stays we are elite program and will become more elite.
I guess that depends on one's definition of "Elite". What is yours?
Legitimately compete for a league title once ever 3-4 years.
Get to a Sweet Sixteen and beyond once every 2-3 years.
Compete for a top 20 ranking every year.
Quote from: GOMU85 on March 09, 2012, 10:19:44 AM
Last night vs Lousiville was a perfect example of why we are not/have a long way to go to becoming an ELITE program. We flat out layed an egg last night on national television. YES, we are 25-7 but records doesn't mean anything until we can CONSISTENTLY compete for a Big-East Championship, win a couple games in the NCAA tourney (final four runs would be nice) and most importantly recruit top 50 talent every year.
What are your thoughts?
Do you work for Sports Radio 1250?, because these are the type of topics they come up with.
Let's start with the basics: How many elite teams do you think there are? I would say 4 right now. (there are probably 10 elite jobs, but only 4 of those schools are really good right now).
- Duke
- Kansas
- UK
- UNC
So, no. MU is not elite. Probably 15 years away.
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 09, 2012, 10:30:36 AM
Legitimately compete for a league title once ever 3-4 years.
Get to a Sweet Sixteen and beyond once every 2-3 years.
Compete for a top 20 ranking every year.
That sounds like an elite program. Sad to say that it's not us at the moment.
Quote from: GOMU85 on March 09, 2012, 10:33:55 AM
That sounds like an elite program. Sad to say that it's not us at the moment.
Well not at the moment. But we're not that far away either. Not at all.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 09, 2012, 10:33:36 AM
Do you work for Sports Radio 1250?, because these are the type of topics they come up with.
Let's start with the basics: How many elite teams do you think there are? I would say 4 right now. (there are probably 10 elite jobs, but only 4 of those schools are really good right now).
- Duke
- Kansas
- UK
- UNC
So, no. MU is not elite. Probably 15 years away.
Hahaha no I don't, I'm just a good critcal thinker. I like your list, but I would prolly add Syracuse, UCONN, Texas, Louiville and even UCLA. Even though some of those schools are not good right now, what makes them elite is recruiting. They almost always get a Top 20 recruit every year.
To me an elite program is one that is a regular in the top 25 and goes into the season with a legitimate (top 10 type team) shot at the Final Four half the time or more for the past 10 years.
Not many that fit that description right now
Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Connecticut, Syracuse, Kansas, Michigan State, Pittsburgh (it feels weird putting Pittsburgh on this list because they never actually DO make a final four, but they've probably had 7 seasons in the last 10 with a more realistic chance at the Final 4 than we have this year)
That's about it. Elite programs come and go. We were elite in the 70s by the above definition and maybe DePaul in the 80s and at various times over the past 30 years UCLA, Indiana, Michigan, Arkansas, Arizona, etc probably fit the definition.
I don't think we are particularly close to that definition now. We are a very good program now, though, the next level down. It's a hard jump to make from where we are to Elite, though.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 09, 2012, 10:33:36 AM
Do you work for Sports Radio 1250?, because these are the type of topics they come up with.
Let's start with the basics: How many elite teams do you think there are? I would say 4 right now. (there are probably 10 elite jobs, but only 4 of those schools are really good right now).
- Duke
- Kansas
- UK
- UNC
So, no. MU is not elite. Probably 15 years away.
Not being good RIGHT NOW, does not mean you aren't an elite program.
I consider all of these "elite"
The Big 3 - UK, KU, UNC are above everyone else
Tier 2 - Indiana, Duke, UCLA, Indiana
After that a drop, but these programs have been/are big-time - mostly dominated by the big state schools w/ a lot of talent and support.
Texas, Michigan St, UConn, Syracuse, Florida, Ohio St, Arizona, Louisville, Illinois, Maryland, Georgetown?, Pittsburgh?
Quote from: GOMU85 on March 09, 2012, 10:40:30 AM
Hahaha no I don't, I'm just a good critcal thinker. I like your list, but I would prolly add Syracuse, UCONN, Texas, Louiville and even UCLA. Even though some of those schools are not good right now, what makes them elite is recruiting. They almost always get a Top 20 recruit every year.
Recruiting is not my definition of elite.
The 4 schools I listed have a long history of top players and winning, and a great recent track record of winning and great players.
UCLA has a long history, but their record the past 2 seasons isn't elite.
Elite for me can only be a handful of schools. MU was there in the 70's. MU is not there now. A long way to go to get there.
So, you are right! MU is not elite. Hooray.
Quote from: GOMU85 on March 09, 2012, 10:19:44 AM
Last night vs Lousiville was a perfect example of why we are not/have a long way to go to becoming an ELITE program. We flat out layed an egg last night on national television. YES, we are 25-7 but records doesn't mean anything until we can CONSISTENTLY compete for a Big-East Championship, win a couple games in the NCAA tourney (final four runs would be nice) and most importantly recruit top 50 talent every year.
What are your thoughts?
Based on your criteria, these programs are elite: Wisconsin, Michigan St., Duke and Kansas. UNC missed the NCAA's in 2010, so they're not. Cuse missed the NCAA's in 2007 AND 2008, so they're not. UCONN missed the NCAA's in 2010, so they're not. Indiana...well, they're not based on the last 3 years. UCLA missed the tourney in 2010, so they're not. PITT and NOVA are missing it this year, so they're not. Ohio St. missed the tourney in 2008, so they're not. Kentucky missed the tourney in 2009, so they're not. Georgetown missed in 2009, so they're not.
Despite out tournament streak, I don't think we're elite yet, but get back to me in 3 years. I am, however, thrilled with the current state of our program.
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 09, 2012, 10:47:55 AM
Not being good RIGHT NOW, does not mean you aren't an elite program.
Not for me, and that's why this is sort of a dumb topic.
It's semantics. Elite for me is not the same as it is to you.
Elite for me can only be a few schools that have great track records and are great right now. I might add Michigan State to that list.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on March 09, 2012, 10:49:01 AM
Despite out tournament streak, I don't think we're elite yet, but get back to me in 3 years. I am, however, thrilled with the current state of our program.
Me too. and it appears to be trending in the right direction so why not enjoy the ride. if we got in the final four 2 out of every three years, some would bitch that we didn't get there 3 out of 3.
By definition, there would only be a few elite teams. Should everyone else not be fans of their teams. If you have to question if your team is elite or not, then you are probably not.
WINNING!
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on March 09, 2012, 10:49:01 AM
Based on your criteria, these programs are elite: Wisconsin, Michigan St., Duke and Kansas. UNC missed the NCAA's in 2010, so they're not. Cuse missed the NCAA's in 2007 AND 2008, so they're not. UCONN missed the NCAA's in 2010, so they're not. Indiana...well, they're not based on the last 3 years. UCLA missed the tourney in 2010, so they're not. PITT and NOVA are missing it this year, so they're not. Ohio St. missed the tourney in 2008, so they're not. Kentucky missed the tourney in 2009, so they're not. Georgetown missed in 2009, so they're not.
Despite out tournament streak, I don't think we're elite yet, but get back to me in 3 years. I am, however, thrilled with the current state of our program.
Recruiting though :/
Except your criteria required all three. You didn't say OR. you said AND. Are you now saying that your only criteria is getting a top 50 recruit? Or is it getting a top 20 recruit, which you stated later?
And in that case, I probably shouldn't have included Wisconsin, since they don't get top 50 recruits every year.
Based on your very specific criteria, the only elite programs in the country are Kansas, Duke and Michigan St.
I'm surprised Connecticut is not getting any mentions for being an elite program. They are about as elite as it gets right now.
In the last 13 seasons, 5 BE regular season champs, 4 BET champs, 10 NCAA appearances, won at least once in 9 of them, 7 sweet 16s, 6 elite 8s, 4 Final Fours and 3 National Championships
For last 22 seasons, 17 NCAAs, 13 sweet 16s, and 9 Elite 8s.
I know you can say it is Calhoun, but they have been great for 22 years now. That is a long time. They are elite.
UConn missed the tourney in 2010. No way they can be considered elite. That invalidates all of their accomplishments over the past 20 years.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 09, 2012, 11:17:32 AM
I'm surprised Connecticut is not getting any mentions for being an elite program. They are about as elite as it gets right now.
In the last 13 seasons, 5 BE regular season champs, 4 BET champs, 10 NCAA appearances, won at least once in 9 of them, 7 sweet 16s, 6 elite 8s, 4 Final Fours and 3 National Championships
For last 22 seasons, 17 NCAAs, 13 sweet 16s, and 9 Elite 8s.
I know you can say it is Calhoun, but they have been great for 22 years now. That is a long time. They are elite.
I added UCONN to 2002MUalum's list. Yes, they are most definately Elite
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 09, 2012, 11:28:25 AM
UConn missed the tourney in 2010. No way they can be considered elite. That invalidates all of their accomplishments over the past 20 years.
You mad?
Quote from: GOMU85 on March 09, 2012, 11:31:31 AM
I added UCONN to 2002MUalum's list. Yes, they are most definately Elite
Except they don't meet your criteria.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on March 09, 2012, 10:50:53 AM
Not for me, and that's why this is sort of a dumb topic.
It's semantics. Elite for me is not the same as it is to you.
Elite for me can only be a few schools that have great track records and are great right now. I might add Michigan State to that list.
Your definition of "elite" has ADD then. You "might add" Michigan St? Okay, whatever.
Schools that consistently have rosters filled with 4-5 star-type talent are among the elite. UCLA, Marquette, and Indiana are former members. Indiana might be on the way back, but I hope not.
If multiple players in the the cream of the crop --the top 100 or so high school seniors in any given year-- want to go to your school, you're elite. If not, you're not. In the BE, Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn, Louisville, and Pitt have generally been in this category in the current era.
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 09, 2012, 11:34:24 AM
Your definition of "elite" has ADD then. You "might add" Michigan St? Okay, whatever.
You mad bro?
I defined what I thought was elite. It's just a silly opinion-based topic. We disagree. Ok.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 09, 2012, 10:47:37 AM
To me an elite program is one that is a regular in the top 25 and goes into the season with a legitimate (top 10 type team) shot at the Final Four half the time or more for the past 10 years.
Elite to me means cream of the crop. I would say only 4 or 5 teams fit that bill currently. Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas and probably Michigan State. There are some historical elites that could get back there like UCLA, Indiana, Arizona. UCONN is a weird one, I would say elite but in a way they are not. Marquette was elite in the 1970's. I don't think we've been elite since. We have been very good, but elite should mean something extra special year in and year out.
Elite programs:
-Sign Blue Chip recruits
-Make regular trips to the final 4
-Win championships
-Send players to the NBA
"Elite" is a broad term, but the above criteria over a long enough period of time seems to add up to me.