This board needs to learn to not freak out. We beat a good team and everyone thinks we can win the national title. We have a crappy game tonight and people want us to find a new point guard.
We aren't as good as people think when we are winning and we aren't as bad as people think when we are losing.
That's twice in 8 days they've gotten their doors blown off. Not a good time for that to happen.
And Cadougan has been bipolar all season. Starting to think a steadier hand would be better.
But you gotta admit... we were pretty awful tonight. Not just the turnovers and rebounding, but effort and desire seemed to be lacking. Bad night for MU
They just got their ass kicked. The only thing that can be good about this is a lesson for the team about winning and losing when the stakes are high.
I hope Buzz teaches that lesson because it doesn't feel good getting a double buy and getting your ass out hustled in the tournament... fucking pissed.
Disgusted.
How do we forget everything we have done all year in one night? Seriously embarrassing effort tonight
other than Wisconsin and Georgetown, name a good team MU beat this year...
This game meant little and our performance showed. Unfortunately Junior has had too many clunkers oaf late. I am not disappointed or upset by this at all. Rest boys, six real games to go.
Did we play shitty tonight? Yes.
But it was one night.
This is different because this was the most important game we've played all year and might as well never got off the plane. This team, these seniors, I'm sickened.
This was our best chance to accomplish something this season. Now it's 6 wins or the season's a bust.
And yes...winning at MSG is bigger than making a Final Four.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on March 08, 2012, 08:16:40 PM
other than Wisconsin and Georgetown, name a good team MU beat this year...
Norfolk State. Twice.
Boom.
Its the fact that we had a legit chance to win this tourney and we came out and completely sucked. We showed no desire to rebound or get loose balls.
UL didnt shoot anywhere near 40% and they still worked us. That tells you everything.
Insert Quote
Did we play crapty tonight? Yes.
But it was one night.
Can't have them in march
Calm down, look at the box score. We have an ineffective center and no rebounding size.In the 2AAs, we have shown everyone how they can unravel us. How could we not be ready for a fight tonite? We just didn't show up to a mediocre team
Quote from: madtownwarrior on March 08, 2012, 08:16:40 PM
other than Wisconsin and Georgetown, name a good team MU beat this year...
Louisville ain't bad
Cincy is pretty good.
Some people say WVU, UConn and Seton Hall are tourney teams.
Tough for me to judge this team as I've only seen the following games: LSU, Vanderbilt, WV, Cincy, Georgetown, and tonight's game. I actually turned off all the losses somewhere early in the second half, as it was obvious there was no effort by the Warriors. When they've lost, they've looked pathetic.
Going into the season, I thought they could make the Sweet 16, and I'll stick with that prognostication.
Here is what worries me. If an athletic team matches our intensity, we are in trouble. The other thing is that it is pretty obvious that if you pressure Cadougan, good things will happen. Teams have been afraid to play us like this for fear of our transition game. Cincy and Louisville have proved that if you have the athletes full court pressure against us is very effective. When you think about it, why wouldn't it be? Cadougan, Mayo, DJO, and Blue are all turnover prone.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2012, 08:18:18 PM
This is different because this was the most important game we've played all year and might as well never got off the plane. This team, these seniors, I'm sickened.
This was our best chance to accomplish something this season. Now it's 6 wins or the season's a bust.
And yes...winning at MSG is bigger than making a Final Four.
We have to win the National Championship or the season is a bust??? What the F are you smoking?
Depending on the draw, we'll be lucky to get back to the sweet sixteen.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on March 08, 2012, 08:24:05 PM
We have to win the National Championship or the season is a bust??? What the F are you smoking?
I want some too
At least it wasn't a 30 TO performance in the conference tourney like the one put together by this horsesh!t team from almost a decade ago.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=230720269 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=230720269)
Some people say WVU, UConn and Seton Hall are tourney teams.
Tourney teams, but they are not good teams...
MU far over-rated...
Quote from: madtownwarrior on March 08, 2012, 08:16:40 PM
other than Wisconsin and Georgetown, name a good team MU beat this year...
Well Cincinnati for one
Yes, no need to panic. We get to rest. We already played ourselves to a 2 or 3 seed. Guys got a little too cocky with awards and need to get back to making baskets and getting stops.
The thing that bothers me the most is how some players said they were focusing on winning the tournament when you need to take it one game at a time.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2012, 08:18:18 PM
This is different because this was the most important game we've played all year and might as well never got off the plane. This team, these seniors, I'm sickened.
This was our best chance to accomplish something this season. Now it's 6 wins or the season's a bust.
And yes...winning at MSG is bigger than making a Final Four.
Brew, I politely disagree. Yes, a win would have made a statement. However, if we win our next 2, 3, 6 games.....that will matter most. Thats what counts this time of year (March).
Yep, tonight smarts, bot it is not a reflection of this team's capabilities.
Quote from: mviale on March 08, 2012, 08:29:44 PM
Yes, no need to panic. We get to rest. We already played ourselves to a 2 or 3 seed. Guys got a little too cocky with awards and need to get back to making baskets and getting stops.
Yep. I think the tourney will be fun to watch. I know the BE tourney is a big thing, just not that big to me. Louisville had a good game plan. MU will learn from it.
Jae has to remember, he is more important on the floor than on the bench. Silly fouls need to go away. Today will remind him of that.
To all who are compelled, jump off the bandwagon. Just don't come back on, then.
no fucking chance at a 2 seed, highly unlikely a 3 seed now...
Quote from: mviale on March 08, 2012, 08:29:44 PM
Yes, no need to panic. We get to rest. We already played ourselves to a 2 or 3 seed. Guys got a little too cocky with awards and need to get back to making baskets and getting stops.
The entire regular season doesn't mean sh!t if you can't translate it into the post-season. These players better man up because that was just embarrassing. We have so much talent and so much potential to be great and we blow it because we can't hold on to the ball? Please, I am wasting my time. I wait for this game with anticipation all week and this is what I see? I don't mind many things but to waste my time? How dare you.
I don't get mad over losing property or money very much, but if you are going to waste my time then get out of my face. The petulance all over this board is well earned.
Quote from: BLUEPRINT on March 08, 2012, 08:24:36 PM
Depending on the draw, we'll be lucky to get back to the sweet sixteen.
No one should have considered the Sweet Sixteen a given even before tonight. Other than maybe the one seeds, it isn't a given for anyone, and still an accomplishment to get there. Granted, it would be disappointing not to get there this year.
I guess the reason I'm so surprised about the massive overreaction and hair pulling at this was that I didn't really see anything tonight I didnt already know. Before tonight, we had seen our propensity for turning it over, that we were small up front and subject to getting outrebounded. Both just happened all night tonight.
People have been alluding to national championships and other things we dont speak of far too liberally in the past week or so - and nights like tonight show why those things are best whispered and not shouted. We have been very good all year but it would take something special, and an elevation of play we havent seen up to this point this year, to be great.
I think we saw just how valuable Jae is. Can't have him on the bench or playing oft because of silly fouls. He never got into his rhythm. He is typically the glue.
I was disgusted with Marquette's performance tonight but I'm in a much better mood after reading these boards. My team might have lost a basketball game but at least I didn't completely lose my mind and all perspective like so many of the posters on here. Thanks for the pick me up, Scoopers!
I disagree,as the players were pointing to New york as a way to prove to everyone they can play with anyone and win the BEast title. Truly dissapointing, we should be rolling with a double bye. Way to much hype
Quote from: real chili 83 on March 08, 2012, 08:31:51 PMBrew, I politely disagree. Yes, a win would have made a statement. However, if we win our next 2, 3, 6 games.....that will matter most. Thats what counts this time of year (March).
Yep, tonight smarts, bot it is not a reflection of this team's capabilities.
2? No. 3? No. 6? Yes.
At the end of the season, you are measured by your accomplishments. Did you win your league? No. Did you win your conference tourney? No. Did you make the Final Four? If so, it will still be viewed as inferior to Wade in 2003 because they also won the league and he went on to superstardom. So all that's left to truly put a stamp on this season is winning the NC. Which I don't expect. Considering our weaknesses and the likelihood that we would have to beat at least 2 of UNC, UK, KU, and Duke, I don't see it.
That's why tonight mattered. This weekend could have put a stamp on the season that even the 2003 team couldn't do. Every other accomplishment outside of the NC has now passed us by.
Quote from: MUMac on March 08, 2012, 08:42:09 PM
I think we saw just how valuable Jae is. Can't have him on the bench or playing oft because of silly fouls. He never got into his rhythm. He is typically the glue.
He is without a doubt the emotional leader of the team. Take George Washington out of that boat and that army doesn't even think about crossing the Delaware.
Quote from: BLUEPRINT on March 08, 2012, 08:46:23 PM
I disagree,as the players were pointing to New york as a way to prove to everyone they can play with anyone and win the BEast title. Truly dissapointing, we should be rolling with a double bye. Way to much hype
Really? They said that? Or did you make that one up? I am guessing the latter, as I don't think they felt they had to prove anything to anyone. Absurd comment.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2012, 08:47:10 PM
2? No. 3? No. 6? Yes.
At the end of the season, you are measured by your accomplishments. Did you win your league? No. Did you win your conference tourney? No. Did you make the Final Four? If so, it will still be viewed as inferior to Wade in 2003 because they also won the league and he went on to superstardom. So all that's left to truly put a stamp on this season is winning the NC. Which I don't expect. Considering our weaknesses and the likelihood that we would have to beat at least 2 of UNC, UK, KU, and Duke, I don't see it.
That's why tonight mattered. This weekend could have put a stamp on the season that even the 2003 team couldn't do. Every other accomplishment outside of the NC has now passed us by.
And the 03 team was inferior to the 1977 and 1974 teams. I would be satisfied with a Sweet 16. Very happy with an Elite 8 because I think we have that talent, and thrilled with a Final Four. Once you hit the second weekend it is all a crapshoot, heck the first weekend is a crapshoot. The tourney is so random that you need a lot of luck in order to advance to the Sweet Sixteen unless you are a UK or UNC, much less winning the whole thing.
Quote from: cheebs09 on March 08, 2012, 08:52:33 PMAnd the 03 team was inferior to the 1977 and 1974 teams. I would be satisfied with a Sweet 16. Very happy with an Elite 8 because I think we have that talent, and thrilled with a Final Four. Once you hit the second weekend it is all a crapshoot, heck the first weekend is a crapshoot. The tourney is so random that you need a lot of luck in order to advance to the Sweet Sixteen unless you are a UK or UNC, much less winning the whole thing.
Which only reinforces my point of why tonight and this weekend were so important. Because now it's all up to match-ups and the SC and officiating and dumb luck. I agree with everything you said there. And that is exactly why tonight should hurt more than losing in the NCAAs. Because we aren't supposed to win that. But this tourney? This weekend? That was ours for the taking.
We should have had the team just walk out and take a team crap on the decal at the start of the game
Quote from: LightBlueJerseys on March 08, 2012, 08:48:14 PM
He is without a doubt the emotional leader of the team. Take George Washington out of that boat and that army doesn't even think about crossing the Delaware.
+1
There goes his chance to have his number/jersey/cornrows retired!
On the plus side, my Friday is now free!
Quote from: BLUEPRINT on March 08, 2012, 09:01:39 PM
We should have had the team just walk out and take a team crap on the decal at the start of the game
That would only have made it slipperier
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 08, 2012, 08:11:32 PM
We have a crappy game tonight and people want us to find a new point guard.
For the record, I have been wanting us to find a new point guard for a while now. He works hard and does what he can, but if we get into any sort of half court game next week, we're done.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2012, 09:00:22 PM
Which only reinforces my point of why tonight and this weekend were so important. Because now it's all up to match-ups and the SC and officiating and dumb luck. I agree with everything you said there. And that is exactly why tonight should hurt more than losing in the NCAAs. Because we aren't supposed to win that. But this tourney? This weekend? That was ours for the taking.
If MU won the BET but lost in the 1st Round of the NCAA Tourney, no one would care about winning the BET.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 08, 2012, 08:45:59 PM
I was disgusted with Marquette's performance tonight but I'm in a much better mood after reading these boards. My team might have lost a basketball game but at least I didn't completely lose my mind and all perspective like so many of the posters on here. Thanks for the pick me up, Scoopers!
Amen
Quote from: MUMac on March 08, 2012, 08:32:32 PM
Yep. I think the tourney will be fun to watch. I know the BE tourney is a big thing, just not that big to me. Louisville had a good game plan. MU will learn from it.
Jae has to remember, he is more important on the floor than on the bench. Silly fouls need to go away. Today will remind him of that.
To all who are compelled, jump off the bandwagon. Just don't come back on, then.
A+
JR would have done that but he was too busy turning the ball over...
Quote from: BLUEPRINT on March 08, 2012, 09:01:39 PM
We should have had the team just walk out and take a team crap on the decal at the start of the game
DJO did the same on two consecutive possessions in the second half.
Quote from: BLUEPRINT on March 08, 2012, 09:01:39 PM
We should have had the team just walk out and take a team crap on the decal at the start of the game
Marquette - The only team in the country to take a team dump on the court. That would rival Happy Gilmore for being the only player to take off his skate and try to stab somebody.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2012, 09:00:22 PM
Which only reinforces my point of why tonight and this weekend were so important. Because now it's all up to match-ups and the SC and officiating and dumb luck. I agree with everything you said there. And that is exactly why tonight should hurt more than losing in the NCAAs. Because we aren't supposed to win that. But this tourney? This weekend? That was ours for the taking.
That you ever thought that is a tribute to this team whether you realize it or not. The reality is this team should never have been able to sniff, let alone finish in second place for the regular season. Unfortunately, the award for a season of
really hard work gets down to abuse when they don't continually exceed reasonable expectations.
Quote from: BLUEPRINT on March 08, 2012, 09:01:39 PM
We should have had the team just walk out and take a team crap on the decal at the start of the game
LOL.....but not
with you
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 08, 2012, 09:27:09 PMThat you ever thought that is a tribute to this team whether you realize it or not. The reality is this team should never have been able to sniff, let alone finish in second place for the regular season. Unfortunately, the award for a season of really hard work gets down to abuse when they don't continually exceed reasonable expectations.
Maybe my expectations were just a bit higher. I thought we were 3rd preseason, but right on the heels of 1/2. The way we rebounded eventually after losing Otule, coupled with Louisville's injuries and UConn being crap had me believing we should finish 2nd since mid-January. They've played well for much of the year, but the only way they exceeded my expectations was by overcoming the injury to CO. Preseason, my prediction was 25-6 (14-4) going into the conference tourney.
So far, they haven't exceeded expectations much in my mind, and tonight was definitely a case of coming up short in that regard.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2012, 09:00:22 PM
Which only reinforces my point of why tonight and this weekend were so important. Because now it's all up to match-ups and the SC and officiating and dumb luck. I agree with everything you said there. And that is exactly why tonight should hurt more than losing in the NCAAs. Because we aren't supposed to win that. But this tourney? This weekend? That was ours for the taking.
I am not a veteran of this board. Only started reading it this season and only started posting a couple of months ago.
I have considered brewcity77 and many others to be fairly sane and reasonable fellows. And I still do think that. I'm going to chalk this up to temporary insanity.
I began a different thread saying that this weekend is big but not THAT big. Many of you agreed, many strongly disagreed. Brewcity was one of those in the latter group, pinning all of his hopes and dreams on this weekend.
I just don't get it. I also don't get why this was "ours for the taking," any more than it was Syracuse's for the taking. I'm guessing that right now, Cincinnati thinks it's theirs for the taking.
Brewcity, you say you'd rather win the BET than get to the Final Four. I'm pretty sure that if you took a poll of every major-college hoops fan across the country and asked "Would you rather win your conference tournament or go to the Final Four," 75 percent or more would choose the Final Four. I think if you asked coaches and players, an even higher percentage would choose the Final Four.
(That being said, this team will not be going to the Final Four if Cadougan doesn't play significantly better, if Crowder doesn't stay out of foul trouble and if our guys neither take care of the ball nor rebound. A pretty safe prediction. But that's for a different thread.)
I disagree strongly that failure to win the national title or reach the Final Four makes this a waste of a season. I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey and have gotten many thrills from Jae, DJO, Buzz and the rest of the team. And I think if most of you take a deep breath and look inside yourselves, you'll agree that you've enjoyed the season, too.
Finally, I understand how deeply we identify with the hoops program and how much we want to win. But these are still only basketball games and they are still only 19-, 20-, 21-year-old kids playing them. Our houses didn't get wrecked by tornadoes. We aren't ruled by a despot who has troops gunning us down in the streets.
It's sports, not life. C'mon, folks ... get a grip!
Quote from: MU82 on March 08, 2012, 09:36:34 PM
I am not a veteran of this board. Only started reading it this season and only started posting a couple of months ago.
I have considered brewcity77 and many others to be fairly sane and reasonable fellows. And I still do think that. I'm going to chalk this up to temporary insanity.
I began a different thread saying that this weekend is big but not THAT big. Many of you agreed, many strongly disagreed. Brewcity was one of those in the latter group, pinning all of his hopes and dreams on this weekend.
I just don't get it. I also don't get why this was "ours for the taking," any more than it was Syracuse's for the taking. I'm guessing that right now, Cincinnati thinks it's theirs for the taking.
Brewcity, you say you'd rather win the BET than get to the Final Four. I'm pretty sure that if you took a poll of every major-college hoops fan across the country and asked "Would you rather win your conference tournament or go to the Final Four," 75 percent or more would choose the Final Four. I think if you asked coaches and players, an even higher percentage would choose the Final Four.
(That being said, this team will not be going to the Final Four if Cadougan doesn't play significantly better, if Crowder doesn't stay out of foul trouble and if our guys neither take care of the ball nor rebound. A pretty safe prediction. But that's for a different thread.)
I disagree strongly that failure to win the national title or reach the Final Four makes this a waste of a season. I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey and have gotten many thrills from Jae, DJO, Buzz and the rest of the team. And I think if most of you take a deep breath and look inside yourselves, you'll agree that you've enjoyed the season, too.
Finally, I understand how deeply we identify with the hoops program and how much we want to win. But these are still only basketball games and they are still only 19-, 20-, 21-year-old kids playing them. Our houses didn't get wrecked by tornadoes. We aren't ruled by a despot who has troops gunning us down in the streets.
It's sports, not life. C'mon, folks ... get a grip!
+ 1 gazillion
Quote from: MU82 on March 08, 2012, 09:36:34 PM
I am not a veteran of this board. Only started reading it this season and only started posting a couple of months ago.
I have considered brewcity77 and many others to be fairly sane and reasonable fellows. And I still do think that. I'm going to chalk this up to temporary insanity.
I began a different thread saying that this weekend is big but not THAT big. Many of you agreed, many strongly disagreed. Brewcity was one of those in the latter group, pinning all of his hopes and dreams on this weekend.
I just don't get it. I also don't get why this was "ours for the taking," any more than it was Syracuse's for the taking. I'm guessing that right now, Cincinnati thinks it's theirs for the taking.
Brewcity, you say you'd rather win the BET than get to the Final Four. I'm pretty sure that if you took a poll of every major-college hoops fan across the country and asked "Would you rather win your conference tournament or go to the Final Four," 75 percent or more would choose the Final Four. I think if you asked coaches and players, an even higher percentage would choose the Final Four.
(That being said, this team will not be going to the Final Four if Cadougan doesn't play significantly better, if Crowder doesn't stay out of foul trouble and if our guys neither take care of the ball nor rebound. A pretty safe prediction. But that's for a different thread.)
I disagree strongly that failure to win the national title or reach the Final Four makes this a waste of a season. I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey and have gotten many thrills from Jae, DJO, Buzz and the rest of the team. And I think if most of you take a deep breath and look inside yourselves, you'll agree that you've enjoyed the season, too.
Finally, I understand how deeply we identify with the hoops program and how much we want to win. But these are still only basketball games and they are still only 19-, 20-, 21-year-old kids playing them. Our houses didn't get wrecked by tornadoes. We aren't ruled by a despot who has troops gunning us down in the streets.
It's sports, not life. C'mon, folks ... get a grip!
Well said. Still sucks though. MSG is the big stage and we blew it.
Quote from: JoBo2756 on March 08, 2012, 09:41:54 PM
Well said. Still sucks though. MSG is the big stage and we blew it.
A very slippery big stage.
I wish my house got destroyed by a tornado, then I probably wouldn't have been able to watch this game. In all seriousness though, you make some good points. I just don't want to face the Louisville fans at work tomorrow.
For some reason I had a bad feeling about this game as I thought L-Ville was due for a huge game. Had the same feeling before the Pack played the Giants and the same crap happened. MU looked like we were on Ice Skates all night
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 08, 2012, 08:45:59 PM
I was disgusted with Marquette's performance tonight but I'm in a much better mood after reading these boards. My team might have lost a basketball game but at least I didn't completely lose my mind and all perspective like so many of the posters on here. Thanks for the pick me up, Scoopers!
Yup
Here's why this game, this tournament, was bigger than going to a Final Four. And I won't argue that 75% of fans would want that. But for me, the Big East tourney at MSG, especially before it gets blown up, is different.
But I digress. The best thing about 2003 was that day in Minneapolis. Watching D-Wade get the triple-double, forever etching his name in NCAA lore. It was the elation that came with the victory. And the worst thing about 2003 was getting brutalized by Kansas a week later. The absolute void of positivity, knowing Wade was gone, Jackson was gone, and the next chance was probably far off.
And the problem with that is knowing that at some point, this year will be the same. The buzzer will almost certainly sound on a loss, whether in Louisville, Phoenix, or New Orleans, and we'll know Jae and DJO are gone, and knowing our next shot might be a ways off. I don't want to pin my hopes on that uncertainty, especially with a team that smacks of greatness in a way we haven't seen certainly since James went down at the BC, and more likely since Dwyane Wade walked out that door.
But this weekend could have been perfect. It could have ended like that weekend in Minneapolis, with triumph. For a brief moment, we'd have been on top of the world. But unlike 2003, it wouldn't have been taken away with a loss the next week. We'd still have that Big East title, and could look back and tell the next generation about how Jae and DJO won it at MSG when that tournament still mattered. When the experts declared that winning the Big East tourney was tougher than winning the NCAAs.
Now, all that's left is hoping against hope that we're #1 out of 68, knowing how unlikely that is, especially when we couldn't be #1 out of 8. Knowing the best case scenario is probably a redux of 2003. And as great as Minneapolis was, that week after was just as bad. I'd rather have won this, knowing the near-inevitability of the end of this year mirroring how 2003 ended -- in disappointment.
Maybe 75% would rather have a Final Four. Maybe 90%. But I have a feeling most of those fans aren't hardcore Big East fans. And no conference trophy, not the B1G 10, not the ACC, not Arch Madness, none of them are as big as the Big East at MSG. So the 75% can have their Final Four dreams that they aren't any more likely to get than we are, I'd rather the reality of a Big East crown.
And that's why squandering this one is so tough.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on March 08, 2012, 08:27:49 PM
Some people say WVU, UConn and Seton Hall are tourney teams.
Tourney teams, but they are not good teams...
MU far over-rated...
Go look at the schedules of say the top 20 teams in college ball this year and you won't see a ton of teams with a lot of wins vs really good teams.
The reason why for that is simple to me, college basketball as a whole is down this year. There aren't that many really good teams, thus by simple numbers, it's hard for a lot of teams to have a bunch of wins on their resume vs really good teams.
Come the big dance, the only teams i'd be very surprised to see lose before the Sweet 16 are Kentucky, N. Carolina, Syracuse, Kansas, and Missouri to a lesser degree given they are undersized. After those five teams, i wouldn't be that surprised in the slightest to see any other team get knocked off in the first two rounds of the NCAA Tournament. My guess is we'll see lots of socalled "upsets" in the dance that really weren't much of an upset.
Final four vs Conference tourney title? Is that a question?
What is a "hardcore" big east fan? An I one? I mean , I love being in the conference. But let's have some perspective.
Winning the BET is a big deal. I agree with that. But let's all calm down. I bet two weeks ago the WV game felt crucial. When we played Wisconsin that felt like the biggest deal. When we played in Maui that felt like a huge deal. Etc. I mean, in the end, if a BET title is that important to you, then I guess you gotta accept being disappointed this season.
In the end, the Big Dance is where legends are born. They call it the Big Dance for a reason...
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2012, 10:17:43 PM
But this weekend could have been perfect. It could have ended like that weekend in Minneapolis, with triumph. For a brief moment, we'd have been on top of the world. But unlike 2003, it wouldn't have been taken away with a loss the next week. We'd still have that Big East title, and could look back and tell the next generation about how Jae and DJO won it at MSG when that tournament still mattered. When the experts declared that winning the Big East tourney was tougher than winning the NCAAs.
Now, all that's left is hoping against hope that we're #1 out of 68, knowing how unlikely that is, especially when we couldn't be #1 out of 8. Knowing the best case scenario is probably a redux of 2003. And as great as Minneapolis was, that week after was just as bad. I'd rather have won this, knowing the near-inevitability of the end of this year mirroring how 2003 ended -- in disappointment.
Maybe 75% would rather have a Final Four. Maybe 90%. But I have a feeling most of those fans aren't hardcore Big East fans. And no conference trophy, not the B1G 10, not the ACC, not Arch Madness, none of them are as big as the Big East at MSG. So the 75% can have their Final Four dreams that they aren't any more likely to get than we are, I'd rather the reality of a Big East crown.
And that's why squandering this one is so tough.
You obviously are free to have that opinion, but for me winning a Big East Tournament would be like getting a date with hot girl i've had my eye on while Marquette getting to the Final Four would be more like Kate Upton calling and asking if i wanted to go party.
Reason for that being the NCAA Tournament is way by far the things college teams shoot for over winning their conference or the conference tournament. Hell, after the NFL playoffs, i think if a poll was taken among sports fans about what their favorite sporting event is, the college basketball NCAA Tournament would finish second. Everyone is watching from the Sweet 16 on. Once you get to the Elite 8 or Final Four, each program left gets tons of media attention.
So while the Big East Tournament is the best and most historic of conference tournaments, it's not like all college fans were tuned in to watch it tonight. Fans of other conferences were likely watching their own tournaments instead of the Big East one. Except for storied programs that make the Final Four all the time, when a program makes it that far, it gets remembered for quite awhile. The Big East Tournament though, i only remember UCONN winning it last year. Couldn't come close to remembering say the previous 2-3 other winners of it.
Man, I go to work, miss the game, and the whole world has come to an end... SMH
I dunno, which dialogue would you rather have?
Anonymous: Marquette, yeah, they lost to Purdue in the round of 32, yeah?
MU Grad: Yeah, but we won the Big East tournament.
Anonymous: Damn, you lost to Ohio State in the Elite Eight. Tough break.
Mu Grad: Yeah, after losing to Louisville in the quarterfinals on the Big East tournament, it was tough to make it this far and lose.
Which one would you prefer?
After reading through this board and the one about needing a new point guard all i can think is how much better off we'd be if several members of this board were in charge of coaching the team.
Louisville came out more aggressive and we lost just like we will if most other teams decide to take an aggressive approach. Bottom line is the TEAM lost today they weren't prepared and Louisville took advantage. I Dont understand all the panic on this board. I hope they have better focus for the tourney and hope most of you realize that nothing is ever as bad as it seems.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on March 09, 2012, 02:21:21 AMI dunno, which dialogue would you rather have?
Anonymous: Marquette, yeah, they lost to Purdue in the round of 32, yeah?
MU Grad: Yeah, but we won the Big East tournament.
Anonymous: Damn, you lost to Ohio State in the Elite Eight. Tough break.
Mu Grad: Yeah, after losing to Louisville in the quarterfinals on the Big East tournament, it was tough to make it this far and lose.
Which one would you prefer?
Option A, 100% of the time. Maybe if we had another Big East tournament trophy in the cabinet, that'd change. But right now, without a doubt, the first one. Because only one allows us to put forward our side of the conversation with a title.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 09, 2012, 06:13:24 AM
Option A, 100% of the time. Maybe if we had another Big East tournament trophy in the cabinet, that'd change. But right now, without a doubt, the first one. Because only one allows us to put forward our side of the conversation with a title.
I suspect, and by a large number, your view is in the minority.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 08, 2012, 08:27:11 PM
At least it wasn't a 30 TO performance in the conference tourney like the one put together by this horsesh!t team from almost a decade ago.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=230720269 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=230720269)
How ironic that that game was played at Freedom Hall where L'ville used to play their games. Must be a bad aura lingering...
But look on the bright side: after losing the Conference tourney back in 2003, Marquette made the Final Four that year. Deja vu anyone?
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2012, 08:18:18 PM
This is different because this was the most important game we've played all year and might as well never got off the plane. This team, these seniors, I'm sickened.
This was our best chance to accomplish something this season. Now it's 6 wins or the season's a bust.
And yes...winning at MSG is bigger than making a Final Four.
Please elaborate. I'd consider these conference tourney games the least important all year, unless your team needs to win a few to get into the NCAA. Unless you win the whole thing, its kind of a lot of effort for very little gain.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2012, 10:17:43 PM
Here's why this game, this tournament, was bigger than going to a Final Four. And I won't argue that 75% of fans would want that. But for me, the Big East tourney at MSG, especially before it gets blown up, is different.
But I digress. The best thing about 2003 was that day in Minneapolis. Watching D-Wade get the triple-double, forever etching his name in NCAA lore. It was the elation that came with the victory. And the worst thing about 2003 was getting brutalized by Kansas a week later. The absolute void of positivity, knowing Wade was gone, Jackson was gone, and the next chance was probably far off.
And the problem with that is knowing that at some point, this year will be the same. The buzzer will almost certainly sound on a loss, whether in Louisville, Phoenix, or New Orleans, and we'll know Jae and DJO are gone, and knowing our next shot might be a ways off. I don't want to pin my hopes on that uncertainty, especially with a team that smacks of greatness in a way we haven't seen certainly since James went down at the BC, and more likely since Dwyane Wade walked out that door.
But this weekend could have been perfect. It could have ended like that weekend in Minneapolis, with triumph. For a brief moment, we'd have been on top of the world. But unlike 2003, it wouldn't have been taken away with a loss the next week. We'd still have that Big East title, and could look back and tell the next generation about how Jae and DJO won it at MSG when that tournament still mattered. When the experts declared that winning the Big East tourney was tougher than winning the NCAAs.
Now, all that's left is hoping against hope that we're #1 out of 68, knowing how unlikely that is, especially when we couldn't be #1 out of 8. Knowing the best case scenario is probably a redux of 2003. And as great as Minneapolis was, that week after was just as bad. I'd rather have won this, knowing the near-inevitability of the end of this year mirroring how 2003 ended -- in disappointment.
Maybe 75% would rather have a Final Four. Maybe 90%. But I have a feeling most of those fans aren't hardcore Big East fans. And no conference trophy, not the B1G 10, not the ACC, not Arch Madness, none of them are as big as the Big East at MSG. So the 75% can have their Final Four dreams that they aren't any more likely to get than we are, I'd rather the reality of a Big East crown.
And that's why squandering this one is so tough.
Now that you've calmed down a tad, this was a rational explanation. Welcome back to sanity.
Still, a couple of things ...
You probably are right about you being more of a Big East fan than others. I am a Marquette fan. I like that we're in the Big East, but I was a Marquette fan when we were an independent and when we were in the Great Midwest and when we were in Conference USA. And I'll be a Marquette fan when they rename this league the Big Everywhere. So will you, I reckon.
As for this ...
For a brief moment, we'd have been on top of the world. But unlike 2003, it wouldn't have been taken away with a loss the next week. We'd still have that Big East title, and could look back and tell the next generation about how Jae and DJO won it at MSG when that tournament still mattered. ...
... if you think winning the Big East title followed by a loss to a 15-seed in the NCAAs wouldn't have "taken away" the happiness of that Big East title, then please share whatever you're smoking with the rest of us, brewcity. I mean, we lose a regular-season game to LSU after a 10-0 start, and to many Marquette might as well have been Chicago State.
Big East title or not, a first-weekend loss in the NCAAs would have felt like a disaster, and that conference crown would have come to be a footnote. You probably would have been the only one to say that was a better ending than the one of 2003.
This team still has a chance to be special. Buzz and the lads need to clean up a lot of things, but they've done it before and all we can do is hope they do it again.
It's out of our control. We're just along for the ride. And for the most part, it's been a heck of a ride so far this season.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 09, 2012, 06:13:24 AM
Option A, 100% of the time. Maybe if we had another Big East tournament trophy in the cabinet, that'd change. But right now, without a doubt, the first one. Because only one allows us to put forward our side of the conversation with a title.
If it was just a Sweet Sixteen, I'd agree with you. But an Elite Eight is rare and I'd take that over a conference tourney that everyone has already forgotten about by the time the tourney starts.
For the record, that post was last night ;) my mindset hasn't changed since my initial reaction.
Quote from: MU82 on March 09, 2012, 09:09:44 AM... if you think winning the Big East title followed by a loss to a 15-seed in the NCAAs wouldn't have "taken away" the happiness of that Big East title, then please share whatever you're smoking with the rest of us, brewcity. I mean, we lose a regular-season game to LSU after a 10-0 start, and to many Marquette might as well have been Chicago State.
Big East title or not, a first-weekend loss in the NCAAs would have felt like a disaster, and that conference crown would have come to be a footnote. You probably would have been the only one to say that was a better ending than the one of 2003.
I respectfully disagree with the first part of this. Five years from now, ten years from now, we'd all still remember a Big East tournament crown fondly. Yes, any loss in the NCAAs sucks, but would it be that much worse than forgetting how to score against Michigan State, or getting upended by Tulsa, or choking away a lead against Washington, or any of our other first weekend losses? I suspect it wouldn't be much worse, but again, we'd still have that perfect week.
For the second, I'm not saying it would be a better ending than 2003, I'm saying that anything less than a Final Four would certainly be less than the Big East tournament, and with 2003 still (relatively) fresh, the only way this season can now trump 2003 is to win the national championship.
Quote from: MU82 on March 09, 2012, 09:09:44 AMThis team still has a chance to be special. Buzz and the lads need to clean up a lot of things, but they've done it before and all we can do is hope they do it again.
It's out of our control. We're just along for the ride. And for the most part, it's been a heck of a ride so far this season.
It has been. I was happy with winning the Paradise Jam. I hoped we would challenge for the Big East title, but our best ever win total and finish in conference play was pretty nice. But being the only double-bye team to lose, looking like we didn't belong against arguably our biggest rival of the past two decades, and coming away empty handed with a group of guys that said they didn't want to have any regrets...well, I just can't see any way this is anything but a massive regret.
OK, brewcity, you win the right to be extremely disappointed.
I gotta get off this site now for a couple of days.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 09, 2012, 06:13:24 AM
Option A, 100% of the time. Maybe if we had another Big East tournament trophy in the cabinet, that'd change. But right now, without a doubt, the first one. Because only one allows us to put forward our side of the conversation with a title.
Who gives a f*ck? The Big Dance is the one that everyone remembers. Winning the Big East tournament would be fucking awesome, but it is hardly a bigger deal. I respect your opinion, and we all get it now. Let it go.
Quote from: BLUEPRINT on March 08, 2012, 09:01:39 PM
We should have had the team just walk out and take a team crap on the decal at the start of the game
Or come out with their pants around their ankles to get spanked! Truly disappointing performance. We'll see what this team is made of next week and whether they can bounce back or not
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 09, 2012, 06:13:24 AM
Option A, 100% of the time. Maybe if we had another Big East tournament trophy in the cabinet, that'd change. But right now, without a doubt, the first one. Because only one allows us to put forward our side of the conversation with a title.
I sort of feel that way too brewcity. Something about the Big East tourney and actually winning it would have etched our name on something.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 08, 2012, 08:11:32 PM
This board needs to learn to not freak out. We beat a good team and everyone thinks we can win the national title. We have a crappy game tonight and people want us to find a new point guard.
We aren't as good as people think when we are winning and we aren't as bad as people think when we are losing.
This is right on. However, I would note that some people take a rational approach and say we are good, not great and the crapping on posters begins in earnest for not drinking the sunshine KoolAid. It's ok to say we're good, not great and expect not to be crapped on during the season.
I hope for a deep run in the NCAA Tourney. But when I look back on this season the fact that Marquette finished second in the Big East and had a player win Big East POY before the conference blew up is much more important than the Big East tourney championship.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 09, 2012, 09:31:21 AM
Who gives a f*ck? The Big Dance is the one that everyone remembers. Winning the Big East tournament would be fracking awesome, but it is hardly a bigger deal. I respect your opinion, and we all get it now. Let it go.
I guarantee the East Coast Big East schools and their fans would value and remember a Big East Tournament championship much more than a sweet 16 run. OTOH, they also would value a Final Four run over a BET championship. The way I look at it, if you are in the Final Four, you have won a regional championship, which is something more difficult than a Big East championship. Don't know about an Elite 8. I personally would prefer a BET to an Elite 8, but I could see the opposite opinion.
Finally, BET success and NCAA success are not mutually exclusive. A BET championship would have significantly improved our chances at NCAA success by moving us to the 2 seed line.
Quote from: MUfan12 on March 08, 2012, 08:14:01 PM
That's twice in 8 days they've gotten their doors blown off. Not a good time for that to happen.
And Cadougan has been bipolar all season. Starting to think a steadier hand would be better.
Bipolar? You mean like our fan base? ;)
Quote from: only a warrior on March 09, 2012, 09:34:27 AM
Or come out with their pants around their ankles to get spanked! Truly disappointing performance. We'll see what this team is made of next week and whether they can bounce back or not
The team is 25-7. I think after 32 games we know what this team is made of and I, for one, have been impressed.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on March 08, 2012, 08:33:48 PM
no fracking chance at a 2 seed, highly unlikely a 3 seed now...
DOH!
I'm sure that made you whole weekend, eh?
Quote from: only a warrior on March 11, 2012, 07:53:36 PM
I'm sure that made you whole weekend, eh?
A 3 seed? And Louisville at a 4 seed? Yes, I am very happy.