MUScoop

I heard from a strong source that DePaul is close to purchasing riverfront property from Morton Salt Co. The property is near Lincoln Park and the Clybourn Metra stop and the Kennedy. It is perfect for an on campus basketball facility. Near transportation hubs, river, Lincoln Park and Bucktown. A sleeping giant may be stirring from its slumber.

Those are the only details I have.

This is good for them, but the "sleeping giant" talk reminds me of the "wait 'til next year" talk from the Cubs.  I'll believe it when I see it.

If true, that would be fanastic.  I've said for many years that for DePaul to be successful, they need to provide for men's basketball via a near campus venue.  The Allstate is simply a pit and too far away.  Kudos.  I'd like them to be competitive.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 04, 2012, 08:51:27 AM
This is good for them, but the "sleeping giant" talk reminds me of the "wait 'til next year" talk from the Cubs.  I'll believe it when I see it.

Very fair point.

This is the one on Elston right?  If so, it's further away from Marquette than the Bradley Center is.  It's a way better location than All State for sure.  That area isn't all that great to walk to from campus though.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 04, 2012, 08:49:15 AM
I heard from a strong source that DePaul is close to purchasing riverfront property from Morton Salt Co. The property is near Lincoln Park and the Clybourn Metra stop and the Kennedy. It is perfect for an on campus basketball facility. Near transportation hubs, river, Lincoln Park and Bucktown. A sleeping giant may be stirring from its slumber.

Those are the only details I have.

If anything else, it'll allow the students to at least show up for games.  The equivalent right now for them would be like MU students having to get out to Oconomowoc to watch games. 

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 04, 2012, 08:51:27 AM
This is good for them, but the "sleeping giant" talk reminds me of the "wait 'til next year" talk from the Cubs.  I'll believe it when I see it.

But with Theo as GM, this IS our year, Sultan! 

/looks at projected Cubs lineup
/sees Bryan LaHair will bat 3rd
/throws up

QuoteIf anything else, it'll allow the students to at least show up for games.  The equivalent right now for them would be like MU students having to get out to Oconomowoc to watch games. 

Although a great reference, I would guess most MU students don't even know where or what Oconomowoc is.  Maybe a better analogy would be driving to Racine to watch games.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 04, 2012, 08:51:27 AM
This is good for them, but the "sleeping giant" talk reminds me of the "wait 'til next year" talk from the Cubs.  I'll believe it when I see it.

First of all, unnatural carnal knowledge the Cubs.... White Sox fan here. Never has there been such a celebration of mediocrity. Wrigley Field is such a historic place to watch the game though...

Second of all, that's awesome for DePaul. It's a travesty that they are in Rosemont. Though agree that it's a weird place for students to walk. Very industrial, across the river and about 15 blocks from the Lincoln Park campus... maybe Morton Salt owns another spot of land that they bought.

Hit the bricks with this Depaul crap. 

Quote from: MUDPT on March 04, 2012, 09:19:39 AM
This is the one on Elston right?  If so, it's further away from Marquette than the Bradley Center is.  It's a way better location than All State for sure.  That area isn't all that great to walk to from campus though.

If it is the Elston property then I am all for it. The area is between north and division and has been slowly improving. Putting a gym here would also improve the area more.  It is not a far walk from campus at all.  You could walk down from Fullerton and halsted (the most north and east corner of campus) and get to the stadium in a half hour. It is probably only 2 miles from there. Even closer if you are on the west side of campus.

There is plenty of room there to add parking and close enough to the Kennedy to not cause too many traffic issues.  this would vastly improve Depaul's facilities.

I have heard this in the past though because at one point they were going to purchase a steel mill on southport and Cortland when it announced it was closing. 

Quote from: Stone Cold on March 04, 2012, 10:13:18 AM
Hit the bricks with this Depaul crap. 

Yeah, nobody is interested in what MU's closest rival and conference affiliate is doing.

1. Judging by the comments so far, obviously a lot of people here are interested. So if those who aren't interested don't like this thread, then move along to threads where you can whine about the crowds at the BC or about who isn't slapping five with whom. Everything that happens in the Big East affects all member schools. As long as we're in the conference, I want all the teams to flourish. DePaul is our closest geographic rival and it helps us if they have a healthy, vibrant program -- something they haven't had for a long time.

2. Just google-mapped the Morton Salt property and it's 1.5 miles from the Fullerton-Sheffield intersection (the main part of campus). Not ideal, to be sure, but it's walkable for hardier types and the school certainly can run a series of shuttle buses, just as MU does to the BC (and did to the Mecca when I was going there). Right on campus would have been even better, so it's a shame DePaul can't make a run at the Children's Hospital property. But that's right in the heart of Lincoln Park -- very pricey.

3. Good for DePaul for acknowledging how awful the Allstate situation is. You build a nice, 8,000 to 10,000 seat facility that people will want to go to and that you can call your own. Then, if you get really good, you can play a marquee game or two at the United Center (or even Allstate). Best of both worlds.

4. DePaul is a sleeping giant. The program has had runs of excellence in the not-too-distant past, notably the Aguirre/Cummings years of the late 70s/early 80s and the Richardson/Simmons years of the late 90s/early 00s. So it obviously isn't impossible.

5. The Cubbie comparisons were meant to be funny, I'm sure, but they are apples and oranges. Much easier to recruit two or three prep hoops studs to play in Chicago, thereby getting a solid program going, than to build and maintain an entire big-league baseball organization. Even if Quentin Richardson did get paid more than many Cubs. (That's a joke, kids. No lawsuit please.)

Thanks MU82.

As a supporter of outstanding Catholic education and our BEast brothers here in Chicago, I'll actually contribute a few dollars to their building fund at the appropriate time.  And for those that think this somehow makes me less than loyal, well, I'll refrain from sharing my thoughts or my ongoing financial commitments to Marquette.

Quote from: jsglow on March 04, 2012, 11:17:48 AM
Thanks MU82.

As a supporter of outstanding Catholic education and our BEast brothers here in Chicago, I'll actually contribute a few dollars to their building fund at the appropriate time.  And for those that think this somehow makes me less than loyal, well, I'll refrain from sharing my thoughts or my ongoing financial commitments to Marquette.

+1

This is great to see. Nothing can be better for Marquette and the Big East than for DePaul to return to being a perennial tourney team like they were in the 1970s and 80s. This can't hurt.

Quote from: MU82 on March 04, 2012, 11:04:17 AM
Not ideal, to be sure, but it's walkable for hardier types and the school certainly can run a series of shuttle buses, just as MU does to the BC (and did to the Mecca when I was going there).

Shuttle bus to the Mecca? Wow! When I was going we had to walk (15 minutes at most).
We did have reserve seats though, so no waiting to get the best seat.

Quote from: Victor McCormick on March 04, 2012, 04:19:38 PM

+1

This is great to see. Nothing can be better for Marquette and the Big East than for DePaul to return to being a perennial tourney team like they were in the 1970s and 80s. This can't hurt.

It's not that I hate DePaul or wish to see them fail, but I don't get the case that it can only help Marquette and that it's the best thing for Marquette to have them competitive.  We'll be playing a lot of very good teams in the Big East regardless of whether DePaul is good or not.  It's not like this is a non-conference team who we have long-term commitments with and who we aren't recruiting the same players as (such as Wisconsin...hate them, but it's good for us when they're good, because for 95% of recruits we aren't recruiting directly against them...thankfully).  Personally, I want that Simeon pipeline their coach was talking about.  If DePaul all of a sudden becomes very relevant, do we have that?  Probably not.  This will only make it harder to recruit Chicago, where there is a lot of talent and we could really find some good players.

anyone who's driven in 94 into the city knows that Morton Salt is in front of possibly the best skyline view of Chicago. That would be a good look

Quote from: dpucane on March 04, 2012, 04:41:27 PM
anyone who's driven in 94 into the city knows that Morton Salt is in front of possibly the best skyline view of Chicago. That would be a good look

But have you ever driven into MKE across the Hoan Bridge?

Spectacular.

Quote from: wadesworld on March 04, 2012, 04:38:43 PM
It's not that I hate DePaul or wish to see them fail, but I don't get the case that it can only help Marquette and that it's the best thing for Marquette to have them competitive.  We'll be playing a lot of very good teams in the Big East regardless of whether DePaul is good or not.  It's not like this is a non-conference team who we have long-term commitments with and who we aren't recruiting the same players as (such as Wisconsin...hate them, but it's good for us when they're good, because for 95% of recruits we aren't recruiting directly against them...thankfully).  Personally, I want that Simeon pipeline their coach was talking about.  If DePaul all of a sudden becomes very relevant, do we have that?  Probably not.  This will only make it harder to recruit Chicago, where there is a lot of talent and we could really find some good players.

I semi-agree with you here. While it's sad that a once great team has been horrible for the last ten years, if they are really good and are grabbing Chicago recruits more than they have in the past, perhaps we aren't getting those recruits. It's definitely not a zero-sum game between MU and Depaul for Chicago folks (U of I, IU, UW et all want those Chicago guys too), but it could slightly affect our recruiting in the area. Plus Milwaukee is cold...

Also, I like beating DePaul for that additional (usually) easy win (except last year).  

Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 04, 2012, 04:57:03 PM
But have you ever driven into MKE across the Hoan Bridge?

Spectacular.

The view of Appleton driving North on the Oneida St. Bridge is phenomonal.

A relevant DePaul would be good for the BE or a future all BBall conference, and, therefore, on balance (when considering the potential hit to recruiting), good for Marquette.  And living just west of the area, I'd love to see it and hope to never have to go to the cracking Horizon again.

Quote from: wadesworld on March 04, 2012, 04:38:43 PM
It's not that I hate DePaul or wish to see them fail, but I don't get the case that it can only help Marquette and that it's the best thing for Marquette to have them competitive.  We'll be playing a lot of very good teams in the Big East regardless of whether DePaul is good or not.  It's not like this is a non-conference team who we have long-term commitments with and who we aren't recruiting the same players as (such as Wisconsin...hate them, but it's good for us when they're good, because for 95% of recruits we aren't recruiting directly against them...thankfully).  Personally, I want that Simeon pipeline their coach was talking about.  If DePaul all of a sudden becomes very relevant, do we have that?  Probably not.  This will only make it harder to recruit Chicago, where there is a lot of talent and we could really find some good players.

Buzz (or whoever is the coach) will just have to outwork 'em. I don't fear the competition, and I'd rather have a real rivalry with them.

As important as any factor is that all of the alumni that ride the North Shore line, the NW line, and anything else that stops at Cortland can take the Metra. That cannot be overstated. Alumni buy season tickets and boxes. Students do not.

I'm happy for DePaul. It'll be much more fun with them competitive.

Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 04, 2012, 04:57:03 PM
But have you ever driven into MKE across the Hoan Bridge?

Spectacular.

Really, Erie PA has it beat.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 04, 2012, 07:04:51 PM

I'm happy for DePaul. It'll be much more fun with them competitive.

Having a legitimate, strong, 3-way rivalry between Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame benefits all three programs.  It creates more ticket sales, better television ratings, and more interest from prospective students.

And for the people who worry it might draw recruits away from Marquette, I will say what Buzz would be too modest to say: Bring it on.

According to Ken Pomeroy on Twitter the rise of DePaul has already begun:

"Good news DePaul fans.  Your chances of winning the Big East tournament are 178 times better than they were last season."

Quote from: warriorchick on March 04, 2012, 07:28:25 PM
Having a legitimate, strong, 3-way rivalry between Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame benefits all three programs.  It creates more ticket sales, better television ratings, and more interest from prospective students.

And for the people who worry it might draw recruits away from Marquette, I will say what Buzz would be too modest to say: Bring it on.

Unless DePaul can get a Crean/Wild marketing team to build interest in the University, the Arena will be an expensive garage.  There is a large commuter population that just isn't that interested in the hoops team.  And their grad students generally pull for their undergrad alma mater.  Winning, however, could really turn things in their favor. 

Quote from: warriorchick on March 04, 2012, 07:28:25 PM
Having a legitimate, strong, 3-way rivalry between Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame benefits all three programs.  It creates more ticket sales, better television ratings, and more interest from prospective students.

And for the people who worry it might draw recruits away from Marquette, I will say what Buzz would be too modest to say: Bring it on.

Agree 100%.  Having DePaul playing competetive basketball will make the Big East even more attractive to recruits and wake up the "sleeping Marquette alumni" when they see DePaul getting a lot of positive press in Chicago.  If the Big East falls a part due to football, the three schools would be a good start for an all basketball conference.

Quote from: MUFC9295 on March 04, 2012, 08:11:59 PM
Unless DePaul can get a Crean/Wild marketing team to build interest in the University, the Arena will be an expensive garage.  There is a large commuter population that just isn't that interested in the hoops team.  And their grad students generally pull for their undergrad alma mater.  Winning, however, could really turn things in their favor. 

DePaul has massive pull in Chicago. A new, riverfront stadium built with the support of the city and beteeeen two hip areas full of bars and restaurants could not fail. No way.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 04, 2012, 08:35:25 PM
DePaul has massive pull in Chicago. A new, riverfront stadium built with the support of the city and beteeeen two hip areas full of bars and restaurants could not fail. No way.

Not to mention that it would be a nice venue for concerts and other events that would find the United Center to be too large.  As a suburbanite, I would find the location just off the Kennedy to be quite attractive.

Quote from: ringout on March 04, 2012, 05:20:32 PM
The view of Appleton driving North on the Oneida St. Bridge is phenomonal.

I'm not sure if this was supposed to be funny, but as someone who probably "drove North on the Oneida St. Bridge" 2,500x in his life, it made me laugh.

Quote from: MU82 on March 04, 2012, 11:04:17 AM
4. DePaul is a sleeping giant. The program has had runs of excellence in the not-too-distant past, notably the Aguirre/Cummings years of the late 70s/early 80s and the Richardson/Simmons years of the late 90s/early 00s. So it obviously isn't impossible.

5. The Cubbie comparisons were meant to be funny, I'm sure, but they are apples and oranges. Much easier to recruit two or three prep hoops studs to play in Chicago, thereby getting a solid program going, than to build and maintain an entire big-league baseball organization. Even if Quentin Richardson did get paid more than many Cubs. (That's a joke, kids. No lawsuit please.)

Actually it wasn't meant to be funny.  I have heard that DePaul is a "sleeping giant" for going on 25 years now.  Not saying that they can't get back to something resembling respectability, but outside of a stretch from the late 70s to the early 80s, they have never really been a giant.  (Post-Mikan that is.)  Even the Richardson/Simmons era wasn't much of an era...they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament.

Great property location, could be big for DePaul.

1.) So close to Metra stops, I would likely go to more than just DePaul v. Marquette.
2.) As mentioned before, a mid-sized arena that is practically downtown will be an asset for the city as well.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 07:52:46 AM

Actually it wasn't meant to be funny.  I have heard that DePaul is a "sleeping giant" for going on 25 years now.  Not saying that they can't get back to something resembling respectability, but outside of a stretch from the late 70s to the early 80s, they have never really been a giant.  (Post-Mikan that is.)  Even the Richardson/Simmons era wasn't much of an era...they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament.

OK, "sleeping giant" is probably too strong. But obviously they have gotten good players in the past and could do so again. While Richardson, Simmons and Lance Williams were going to the NCAAs (but weren't having "much of an era") at DePaul, Marquette was going 14-15, 15-14 and 15-14.

DePaul ended up going down the tubes after that but Marquette -- thanks to a good coaching hire, a renewed commitment to basketball and Dwyane Wade (among others) -- soon became a very good program and remains that to this day.

Is the hypothesis, then, that while Marquette can achieve such a turnaround, DePaul, despite being in a world-class city that is home to incredible prep hoops talent, can't?

If DePaul hires a good coach (or Purnell proves to be such over time), commits serious resources to basketball (including a new near-campus arena) and recruits solid home-grown players, it can't become a good program?

Quote from: MU82 on March 05, 2012, 08:41:25 AM
OK, "sleeping giant" is probably too strong. But obviously they have gotten good players in the past and could do so again. While Richardson, Simmons and Lance Williams were going to the NCAAs (but weren't having "much of an era") at DePaul, Marquette was going 14-15, 15-14 and 15-14.

DePaul ended up going down the tubes after that but Marquette -- thanks to a good coaching hire, a renewed commitment to basketball and Dwyane Wade (among others) -- soon became a very good program and remains that to this day.

Is the hypothesis, then, that while Marquette can achieve such a turnaround, DePaul, despite being in a world-class city that is home to incredible prep hoops talent, can't?

If DePaul hires a good coach (or Purnell proves to be such over time), commits serious resources to basketball (including a new near-campus arena) and recruits solid home-grown players, it can't become a good program?

Yes.  It can become a "good program."  I just think that the idea that it will return to the glory days of Aguirre and Cummings are a little far-fetched.

Fair enough. I don't want them to get TOO good, anyway!

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 08:52:40 AM

Yes.  It can become a "good program."  I just think that the idea that it will return to the glory days of Aguirre and Cummings are a little far-fetched.

Depaul is the largest Catholic University in the country.  I think a better question is, can a smaller university in the city of Milwaukee return to the glory days of Al McGuire.

Quote from: MARQEVANS on March 05, 2012, 09:06:45 AM
Depaul is the largest Catholic University in the country.  I think a better question is, can a smaller university in the city of Milwaukee return to the glory days of Al McGuire.

No I don't think so.  Marquette was the second best program in college basketball in the 1970s.  I don't think that will ever be replicated.

The size of the school doesn't matter a bit...and in fact might be part of the problem.  Like UWM, many DePaul students commute and therefore don't have the connection to the school like MU students do.  The city does matter, and in fact might be the only thing DePaul has going for it, but as we have seen, it isn't that difficult for Chicago kids to come to Milwaukee.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 09:13:21 AM

The size of the school doesn't matter a bit...and in fact might be part of the problem.  Like UWM, many DePaul students commute and therefore don't have the connection to the school like MU students do.  The city does matter, and in fact might be the only thing DePaul has going for it, but as we have seen, it isn't that difficult for Chicago kids to come to Milwaukee.

I think that many of the posters here who do not live in Chicago underestimate DePaul's stature in Chicago and the investment of the alumni. Richard Driehaus, the investor, just gave $30 million and they've had other regular 8-figure donations. The ambivalence referenced is to Allstate Arena, not to DePaul and not to its basketball team. Allstate Arena was, is, and will be the problem. If that gets corrected EVERYTHING changes for DePaul.

Keep in mind that if there were NCAA "one and dones" in the late 90's then Kevin Garnett, Dorrell Wright and Eddy Curry would have suited up for the Blue Demons. Guys like that even for a year or two can change a program. Add to that NBAers Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons, Stephen Hunter, Paul McPherson, etc. and the "sleeping giant" idea is not hyperbole.

If DePaul can reverse the trend of CPS kids going out of state, then look out. A new, popular stadium can quickly do that.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 04, 2012, 08:35:25 PM
DePaul has massive pull in Chicago. A new, riverfront stadium built with the support of the city and beteeeen two hip areas full of bars and restaurants could not fail. No way.

Posted on: March 04, 2012, 08:45:10 PMPosted by: warriorchick
Not to mention that it would be a nice venue for concerts and other events that would find the United Center to be too large.  As a suburbanite, I would find the location just off the Kennedy to be quite attractive.

The city won't do squat.  This is an arena for a private institution.  City money pegged for universities is going to the Loop developments around Congress.  And then there is the UIC Pavillion which has a stranglehold on downtown events not fit for the UC (Allstate and Sears Centre take care of the burbs).  Finally, the Elston corridor will always be "between two hip areas."  Besides going to the Hideout and bypassing Kennedy traffic, no one ventures in that area.  

An arean is a great move for the DePaul teams - anything is better than Allstate.  But the value here is limited to interest in the sports teams which I don't think is there right now.  They already have an "AL" facility on campus.  What will this arena do the other 340 nights there are no games?  That's a lot of sell-outs to ask of a "sleeping giant."

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 04, 2012, 08:49:15 AM
I heard from a strong source that DePaul is close to purchasing riverfront property from Morton Salt Co. The property is near Lincoln Park and the Clybourn Metra stop and the Kennedy. It is perfect for an on campus basketball facility. Near transportation hubs, river, Lincoln Park and Bucktown. A sleeping giant may be stirring from its slumber.

Those are the only details I have.

If this is in the works, I would be very happy for DePaul.  However, I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that this area is (or was once) a massive brownfield, and the remediation necessary to get a major project like an arena off the ground will probably take twice as long as it would to actually build a new arena.  Of course, those who drive North Ave probably won't even notice the whole new batch of construction at the interchange necessary to pull this off.

But my mouth is already watering at the prospect of stopping at Goose Island Shrimp Co. both before and after all future Marquette/DePaul games in Chicago.

Have they ever considered playing at the United Center?  A lot closer...more "central" to Chicago...just a little bit larger....

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 09:56:25 AM
Have they ever considered playing at the United Center?  A lot closer...more "central" to Chicago...just a little bit larger....

I would have to imagine the place would be a tomb. Also the scheduling conflicts would be a nightmare... Bulls, Hawks, Circus, DePaul.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 09:56:25 AM
Have they ever considered playing at the United Center?  A lot closer...more "central" to Chicago...just a little bit larger....

That would still be a long commute from campus, and you'd lose the northwest suburb crowd if there is any.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 09:56:25 AM
Have they ever considered playing at the United Center?  A lot closer...more "central" to Chicago...just a little bit larger....

They did, back in the Pat Kennedy era.  

I believe the current lease they have at the Allstate states that they can't play games at the UC.

As for op claim, I have some doubts about it. And, even if the property is purchased, breaking ground for an arena IMO is still very far off.

Agree with RJax about the likelihood (or lack thereof) of this happening. If it happens at all, it's not like it's gonna happen tomorrow.

Fun to speculate, because that's why sites like this exist, but a new DePaul arena is a big "we'll see."

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 09:56:25 AM
Have they ever considered playing at the United Center?  A lot closer...more "central" to Chicago...just a little bit larger....

As was mentioned, they played there in the past.  I remember attending a MU game there several years ago.  Scheduling conflicts, the enormous size of the UC (22,000?), and similar logistical problems related to distance from campus on top of any Allstate contractual obligations make this impractical.

Quote from: MUFC9295 on March 05, 2012, 09:33:22 AM
The city won't do squat.  This is an arena for a private institution.  City money pegged for universities is going to the Loop developments around Congress.  

Let's just say I know people who know things. This is going to happen. This isn't a "might." Barring a complete break down in negotiations, this deal will go through.

Also, I may have it mixed up in my head and we're all talking about the same thing, but my understanding is the specific property of the Morton Salt Co. is where there is already a dome shaped building. I don't think it's that empty field where all the cabs are parked. But I'm not 100% clear on that. I'll find out.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that DePaul's AD Jean Lenti Ponsetto is pretty incompetent. As mentioned in last years article in Forbes, DePaul basically treats the men's basketball program like the red headed step child in the basement.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/03/09/louisville-syracuse-and-marquette-the-top-big-east-schools-in-mens-basketball-revenue/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/03/09/louisville-syracuse-and-marquette-the-top-big-east-schools-in-mens-basketball-revenue/)

As for the Elston location, anything is better than Rosemont. Running a shuttle service seems like a no brainer. If the weather is nice it is not a bad walk from campus, blue line, red line, North Ave & or Division buses. In short, not "perfect" but much improved.

If its so darned important to have a strong Chicago presence in the Big East, why not just invite Loyola?  They could be just as much a sleeping giant as DePaul.

DePaul has a good conference, but needs a new on-campus facility--which could be years away.
Loyola has an on-campus facility, but needs a better conference, which could be fixed much faster.

--Like DePaul, Loyola is located in Chicago, and has a large body of influential local alums.
--Like DePaul, Loyola has struggled on court for years.
--Like DePaul, Loyola has a strong basketball history and is a former NCAA champion
--Similar to DePaul, is the 3rd largest Catholic University in the US (behind only DePaul & St. Johns)
--Per US News, Loyola is rated slightly better and has a larger endowment.

Because they already have an on-campus facility that could be used for at least some of their games, they may well have a faster path to relevance that DePaul--the only thing they lack is a quality confererence.  A Big East invitation could fix that.

You have to believe that the Big East would provide an immediate recruiting boost to Loyola, immedeately raise their stature, and enable them to hire a better coach.  Thus they might offer the league a much faster path to success than the 3 to 5 years it would take to get a new facility built for DePaul.

And the worst that could happen is that they match DePaul in terms of futility.

Quote from: The Equalizer on March 05, 2012, 11:02:31 AM
If its so darned important to have a strong Chicago presence in the Big East, why not just invite Loyola?  They could be just as much a sleeping giant as DePaul.

DePaul has a good conference, but needs a new on-campus facility--which could be years away.
Loyola has an on-campus facility, but needs a better conference, which could be fixed much faster.

--Like DePaul, Loyola is located in Chicago, and has a large body of influential local alums.
--Like DePaul, Loyola has struggled on court for years.
--Like DePaul, Loyola has a strong basketball history and is a former NCAA champion
--Similar to DePaul, is the 3rd largest Catholic University in the US (behind only DePaul & St. Johns)
--Per US News, Loyola is rated slightly better and has a larger endowment.

Because they already have an on-campus facility that could be used for at least some of their games, they may well have a faster path to relevance that DePaul--the only thing they lack is a quality confererence.  A Big East invitation could fix that.

You have to believe that the Big East would provide an immediate recruiting boost to Loyola, immedeately raise their stature, and enable them to hire a better coach.  Thus they might offer the league a much faster path to success than the 3 to 5 years it would take to get a new facility built for DePaul.

And the worst that could happen is that they match DePaul in terms of futility.

Loyola doesn't have a strong basketball history. In the modern era, they have made the tournament once (1985). For the most part, they have struggled in the Horizon league, even though they should be at advantage being in Chicago.

Secondly, their new on-campus facility is not a suitable place for Big East games. It's nice, but in the renovating it, they cut the overall seating capacity.

Lastly, Loyola doesn't have the fan base to support such a move. Even though DePaul's attendance has been poor, their season ticket base is still much, much larger than Loyola's.   

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 04, 2012, 07:13:15 PM

Really, Erie PA has it beat.

hahaha, I'm not sure anyone else got this, but that's pretty funny. The mistake by the lake!

It would be maybe a decade before Loyola could even be in the conversation. Their lakefront campus is great, but it is  still in a "dull" area to say the least. Most Loyola students go to Lincoln Park at night and even live their. However, there is talk of renovating the area north of Wrigleyville up to the Loyala area (Edgewater, Rogers Park, Andersonville).   That would take a while, but Loyola could have a chance if it happened

Quote from: RJax55 on March 05, 2012, 11:46:03 AM
Loyola doesn't have a strong basketball history. In the modern era, they have made the tournament once (1985). For the most part, they have struggled in the Horizon league, even though they should be at advantage being in Chicago.

I think you confuse history with present.  I didn't say Loyola was strong now.  But they can build on the heritage that includes a national championship.

The glory days of both Loyola (1963 championship) and DePaul (1979 final four through early 1980's) occurred long before today's students were born.

Quote from: RJax55 on March 05, 2012, 11:46:03 AM
Secondly, their new on-campus facility is not a suitable place for Big East games. It's nice, but in the renovating it, they cut the overall seating capacity.

Their facility is simliar in nature and only slightly smaller than St. John's Carnesecca Arena and Villanova's Pavillion.  They could always move big games to the United Center, like St. John's and Villanova do.

Quote from: RJax55 on March 05, 2012, 11:46:03 AM
Lastly, Loyola doesn't have the fan base to support such a move. Even though DePaul's attendance has been poor, their season ticket base is still much, much larger than Loyola's.   

Do you think that might have something to do with the conference affiliation of each team? 

DePaul gets to sell UConn, Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, and Notre Dame.  Loyola gets to sell Youngstown State, Wright State and Cleveland State, UWM and Butler.

Something tells me that if Loyola had DePaul's schedule, they just might be able to grow that season ticket base.

  My fiance goes to Loyola and we live in Edgewater. There has been no interest in Loyola basketball for decades. I would guarantee that Loyola alums don't have fond memories of their program nor have any interest in it.
  Most Loyola students, as stated previously, live away from campus in Lincoln Park because there's no nightlife and its not the safest area. Depaul has a much better shot and with an inkling of life back in the program will rise quickly IMO.

It is really grasping at straws to suggest that Loyola could be a better, much less equal alternative to DePaul in Chicago.  MU spent $10.3 million on basketball last year.  DePaul, who is considered "cheap," spent $6.4 million.  Loyola spent $1.7 million.

They just aren't going to make the investment.  It's not as important to them.

Equalizer reaffirming my conclusion that he is the dumbest person on this board. I'm actually hoping that he is just trying to see what reactions he can get out of people on this board, and not actually out in the world destroying the reputational value of my MU degree.

Your supposed logic in making this argument was that if the BEast wanted a strong Catholic school in Chicago we should go after Loyola. Yet, in making your case for Loyola you were unable to point to one advantage that Loyola has over DePaul. Right now DePaul doesn't even deserve its seat at the table, and Loyola is still 5 rungs below them.

Yes, moving to the BEast would help Loyola increase alumni interest... but it would also help Chicago State. The question is what the program offers to the Big East, not vice versa.

I think when referencing possible conference additions, the appropriate question to ask is how many students will show up on Tuesday night the week before mid-terms to see the game. That way we can preemptively fight off blow ups on this board.

Quote from: warriorchick on March 04, 2012, 08:45:10 PM
Not to mention that it would be a nice venue for concerts and other events that would find the United Center to be too large.  As a suburbanite, I would find the location just off the Kennedy to be quite attractive.

A 10k seat arena would be great for that area and suburbanites could easily make trip for Sat. afternoon games. People would also be willing to hang downtown and go to games after work.
DePaul will be relevant again if they pull this off. They sold out the Horizon when they they first moved out there. The UCLA-DePaul was one of the biggest games every season and DePaul was the reason Rosemont was able to build the Horizon.
A stronger DePaul only helps the rivalry and strengthens our position with all this conference jumping. DP strengthening wouldn't hurt our recruiting as long as we have someone like Buzz. It could actually strengthen our recruiting if the Big East becomes more attractive to Chicago kids if DePaul re-awakened. They could be near home but not at home.

Someone really suggested Loyola to the Big East? Really? Doubt anybody can top that one.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 04, 2012, 08:49:15 AM
I heard from a strong source that DePaul is close to purchasing riverfront property from Morton Salt Co. The property is near Lincoln Park and the Clybourn Metra stop and the Kennedy. It is perfect for an on campus basketball facility. Near transportation hubs, river, Lincoln Park and Bucktown. A sleeping giant may be stirring from its slumber.

Those are the only details I have.

sorry but the facility does not a team make.  just as the school building does not teach da kids

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 12:33:15 PM
It is really grasping at straws to suggest that Loyola could be a better, much less equal alternative to DePaul in Chicago.  MU spent $10.3 million on basketball last year.  DePaul, who is considered "cheap," spent $6.4 million.  Loyola spent $1.7 million.

They just aren't going to make the investment.  It's not as important to them.

Agree Sultan.  If Loyola increased their commitment modestly, they might be able to be somewhat competitive in the Horizon.  And back 15 years ago it might have been a decent place for Mike Deane to take his 'occasional tournament' conversation.

DePaul needs a lot more than a new facility to resurrect it's program... but it's a start.

Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on March 05, 2012, 12:34:10 PM
Equalizer reaffirming my conclusion that he is the dumbest person on this board. I'm actually hoping that he is just trying to see what reactions he can get out of people on this board, and not actually out in the world destroying the reputational value of my MU degree.

So, your best counterargument amounts to little more than a personal attack.  Speaks volumes about your lack of character and intellect.  You're destroying your reputational value all on your own.

Let's go back to the original argument--others are suggesting that the only thing that DePaul needs to begin bringing something to the Big East is a new arena.

I'm merely pointing out that if an on-campus arena were sufficient, then we can get there a lot faster by bringing in Loyola.  Otherwise both programs have a similar profile.

Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on March 05, 2012, 12:34:10 PM
Your supposed logic in making this argument was that if the BEast wanted a strong Catholic school in Chicago we should go after Loyola. Yet, in making your case for Loyola you were unable to point to one advantage that Loyola has over DePaul. Right now DePaul doesn't even deserve its seat at the table, and Loyola is still 5 rungs below them.

I very specifically pointed to the on-campus arena, which Loyola currently has, and DePaul has lacked for over 30 years.

I'm not going to dispute that Loyola is 5 rungs below DePaul--I'm suggesting that all five rungs of that are due to them being in the Horizon and DePaul in the Big East.  Change the league affilliations, and that difference is elimanted. 

Quote from: The Equalizer on March 05, 2012, 01:47:58 PM
I'm not going to dispute that Loyola is 5 rungs below DePaul--I'm suggesting that all five rungs of that are due to them being in the Horizon and DePaul in the Big East.  Change the league affilliations, and that difference is elimanted.   

So you are going to ignore the fact that I pointed out that DePaul currently spends 3-4 times more on basketball than Loyola does each year?  And that DePaul spends only about 60% what Marquette does?

It is more than conference affiliation that matters.  Its about the investment into the program.

Quote from: The Equalizer on March 05, 2012, 01:47:58 PM
So, your best counterargument amounts to little more than a personal attack.  Speaks volumes about your lack of character and intellect.  You're destroying your reputational value all on your own.

Let's go back to the original argument--others are suggesting that the only thing that DePaul needs to begin bringing something to the Big East is a new arena.

I'm merely pointing out that if an on-campus arena were sufficient, then we can get there a lot faster by bringing in Loyola.  Otherwise both programs have a similar profile.

I very specifically pointed to the on-campus arena, which Loyola currently has, and DePaul has lacked for over 30 years.

I'm not going to dispute that Loyola is 5 rungs below DePaul--I'm suggesting that all five rungs of that are due to them being in the Horizon and DePaul in the Big East.  Change the league affilliations, and that difference is elimanted. 

84, DePaul has the McGrath on-campus arena, it was built in 2000.

http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/facilities/depa-facilities.html#wbbvb

Also, it is going to a lot more than simply a switch in conference affiliation for Loyola to equal DePaul.

Quote from: RJax55 on March 05, 2012, 01:56:10 PM
84, DePaul has the McGrath on-campus arena, it was built in 2000.

http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/facilities/depa-facilities.html#wbbvb

From the pictures, it looks like that facility might be about the size of the arena in The Al.  Not a place to play men's BEast basketball.

Quote from: warriorchick on March 05, 2012, 02:02:48 PM
From the pictures, it looks like that facility might be about the size of the arena in The Al.  Not a place to play men's BEast basketball.

Did you read the title of the thread? No one is saying Big East games would be played at McGrath.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 01:54:31 PM

So you are going to ignore the fact that I pointed out that DePaul currently spends 3-4 times more on basketball than Loyola does each year?  And that DePaul spends only about 60% what Marquette does?

It is more than conference affiliation that matters.  Its about the investment into the program.

No, I'm not ignoring you.

You tell me first,
How much of the funding difference is based on the difference in league money available.  I'm pretty sure MU gets a bigger check from the Big East than Loyola gets from the Horizon.

How much is based on revenue difference by having better opponents to market?  Do you think you'd be able to sell more season tickets at a higher price if you were offering Notre Dame, Marquette, UConn, etc., or Youngstown State, Cleveland State and UWM?

How much of it is willingness to invest based on current league affiliation?  Think about it.  MU wouldn't spend $10 million/year if we were in the Horizon, nor would DePaul spend $6 million.

Loyola's spending is directly tied to their revenue, which is directly tied to their conference affililation.  Its not worth it to them to increase their spending as long as they're in the Horizon. 

It would be a different story if they had a chance to be in the Big East.

Quote from: warriorchick on March 05, 2012, 02:02:48 PM
From the pictures, it looks like that facility might be about the size of the arena in The Al.  Not a place to play men's BEast basketball.

Correct, I too wouldn't consider it to be a facility to play Big East basketball in.

I brought it up to counter 84's argument that Loyola has an on-campus arena and DePaul doesn't. That's not true. Loyola has the Gentile Center and DePaul has the McGrath arena.

I think these are ridiculous assumptions.  Yes, the Big East is more lucrative than the Horizon and yes you could probably sell tickets at a higher price.  However, you theory seems to be that conference affiliation can lift any program from the doldrums and thrust them into the top level of college basketball.  

It doesn't work that way.  DePaul is part of the Big East BECAUSE it has dedicated to spend $6.4 million on basketball.  Yeah, some of that is provided by their membership, but mostly its because it allocates the resources to do so.  Loyola, for whatever reason, doesn't want to make that commitment.  Perhaps it doesn't have the resources...perhaps it doesn't feel its in its mission to do so...perhaps their constituents don't really care.

I mean, according to your theory, UWM could be substituted for MU in the Big East, and the two schools would simply trade places.

Quote from: RJax55 on March 05, 2012, 01:56:10 PM
Also, it is going to a lot more than simply a switch in conference affiliation for Loyola to equal DePaul.

Clearly Loyola would have to be committed.  But I disagree that if they were they couldn't ultimately be as strong if not stronger than DePaul.  

Depaul has been struggling for over 20 years, and has had every conference affiliation advantage we have.  They've squandered it all and yet people still talk like they're just one step away from relevance.  

Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on March 05, 2012, 12:34:10 PM
Equalizer reaffirming my conclusion that he is the dumbest person on this board. I'm actually hoping that he is just trying to see what reactions he can get out of people on this board, and not actually out in the world destroying the reputational value of my MU degree.[/color]

It seems to me that any poster that resorts to name-calling cheapens only his degree from MU.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 05, 2012, 02:09:02 PM
Did you read the title of the thread? No one is saying Big East games would be played at McGrath.

I was pointing out that to the person who posted that info that the fact that they currently have an onsite facility is irrelevant.

Quote from: RJax55 on March 05, 2012, 02:22:38 PM
Correct, I too wouldn't consider it to be a facility to play Big East basketball in.

I brought it up to counter 84's argument that Loyola has an on-campus arena and DePaul doesn't. That's not true. Loyola has the Gentile Center and DePaul has the McGrath arena.

The difference is that Loyola plays their games in the Joe Gentile.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 04, 2012, 08:49:15 AM
I heard from a strong source that

Since this thread is now 3 pages deep, can we get anymore information about this "strong source." Under what circumstances is this person is this person qualified to be giving information. 

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 02:28:19 PM
I think these are ridiculous assumptions.  Yes, the Big East is more lucrative than the Horizon and yes you could probably sell tickets at a higher price.  However, you theory seems to be that conference affiliation can lift any program from the doldrums and thrust them into the top level of college basketball.  

Seems to me that we were in exactly in those doldrums at one time. And moving up-market in conference affilliation (from GMC to CUSA to Big East) propelled our success.  We didn't spend $10 million a year when we were in the MCC--we had to get to the Big East first.

Did Conference affilliation alone change us?  No.  But I seriously doubt that we would have made the commitment we did if we didn't have invitations to move up-market.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 02:28:19 PM
It doesn't work that way.  DePaul is part of the Big East BECAUSE it has dedicated to spend $6.4 million on basketball.  Yeah, some of that is provided by their membership, but mostly its because it allocates the resources to do so.  Loyola, for whatever reason, doesn't want to make that commitment.  Perhaps it doesn't have the resources...perhaps it doesn't feel its in its mission to do so...perhaps their constituents don't really care.

No, it doesn't work your way.  DePaul has $6.4 million to spend on basketball BECAUSE they are in the Big East.  No school can spend money they don't have and expect to stay in business.  

Even if Loyola would decide tomorrow that they WANT to spend $10 million on their program, where are they going to get it?

--The Horizon league TV payout?  Hah!  
--Ticket sales to games agininst Wright State and Youngstown State?  Hah!  
--Donors making four and five and six figure donations to the athletic fund to get access to courtside seats to see Wright State and Youngstown State?  Hah!

We chose to spend $10 million only after it became obvious that we had $10 million in revenue.  And that revenue is a direct result of being part of the Big East.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 02:28:19 PM
I mean, according to your theory, UWM could be substituted for MU in the Big East, and the two schools would simply trade places.

Not "simply trade places" no.  But over time, good chance it happens.

If we were in the Horizon, would we still land top athletes from across the country who come to us to play in the Big East?  No.  If UWM were in the Big East, would they improve recruting?

If we were in the Horizon, would we attract players who wanted to see themselves on TV nearly every game, or is the once-a-year Braket Buster game just as good?   Would UWM get more attention if they were on TV every game?  

If we didn't have a season ticket plan that included Notre Dame, UConn, Villnova, Georgetown, etc, would we still be able to get the donations that fund our program so that people have access to lower-bowl seats?  No.

Take those advantages from us and give them to UWM, and slowly their recruiting would suprass ours, fans engagement and national attention would be sure to follow.

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on March 05, 2012, 03:25:28 PM
Since this thread is now 3 pages deep, can we get anymore information about this "strong source." Under what circumstances is this person is this person qualified to be giving information. 

Who wants to talk about a new, near the campus facility for longtime rival and fellow Big East member De Paul when there's a chance (if we play our cards right) that mighty Loyola U (Chicago) could be lured from the Horizon to the Big East?

More like Loy-LOL-La

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on March 05, 2012, 03:25:28 PM
Since this thread is now 3 pages deep, can we get anymore information about this "strong source." Under what circumstances is this person is this person qualified to be giving information. 

No. You're not in a position to demand verification of a source or a story. Check out my history on this board, particularly in regards to this specific issue. I gave the information available to me and qualified it as such. The source is definitely a strong source for the information and that is all that would be fair to say on an internet message board. If you wish to verify the info you are free to call Morton Salt Co. and/or DPU for comment and report back. I trust what I've been told and thought others would be interested. Do with the info what you see fit.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 05, 2012, 03:47:56 PM
No. You're not in a position to demand verification of a source or a story. Check out my history on this board, particularly in regards to this specific issue. I gave the information available to me and qualified it as such. The source is definitely a strong source for the information and that is all that would be fair to say on an internet message board. If you wish to verify the info you are free to call Morton Salt Co. and/or DPU for comment and report back. I trust what I've been told and thought others would be interested. Do with the info what you see fit.

So basically you are just starting rumors with out presenting any real information, data, facts, hard evidence, or paper trail. Just checking.

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on March 05, 2012, 04:03:01 PM
So basically you are just starting rumors with out presenting any real information, data, facts, hard evidence, or paper trail. Just checking.

It's a message board.  Posters build their reputation over the course of time, and its up to you to choose to believe it.  I appreciate that he is willing to share it, and only time will tell if he is accurate or not.

But if people keep ripping those who claim to have information because they don't have rock hard proof, it will become a dull message board. 

Quote from: dpucane on March 05, 2012, 12:15:09 PM
However, there is talk of renovating the area north of Wrigleyville up to the Loyala area (Edgewater, Rogers Park, Andersonville).   That would take a while, but Loyola could have a chance if it happened

Umm...that is an area covering 1/4 the north side with 200,000+ residents. Who would renovate 3 entire neighborhoods?


As for Loyola joining the Big East, that would be an absolute joke. I went to grad school there. No one cares about basketball, and their arena seats <5,000.

A fun non-conference cupcake maybe, but NOT Big East material. Doesn't have a fraction of the tradition, fanbase, or exposure that DePaul does. Anyone who argues that Loyola has BEAST potential doesn't know what they are talking about. Period.

Does anyone with inside scoop know the address of where the Depaul arena would be built?

Avenue Commons has one thing going for him...he's much more reliable than his cousin, MU Avenue.   ;D

That said, AC seems solid with info.

Let's just say there's a 90% chance of this happening.

I believe we're all talking about this location:

1357 N Elston Ave, Chicago, IL 60642

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2012, 04:13:07 PM
But if people keep ripping those who claim to have information because they don't have rock hard proof, it will become a dull message board. 

This.  Based upon how people react whenever anyone posts something citing an anonymous source, I can't imagine why anyone would ever post good inside information on this board.  It's just not worth the hassle.  It bears repeating:  those who reveal their inside sources, lose their inside sources.

Hey, you brats ... do I have to pull this car over RIGHT NOW?!?!?!?

Quote from: murespect on March 05, 2012, 04:23:16 PM
I believe we're all talking about this location:

1357 N Elston Ave, Chicago, IL 60642

That's really not THAT close of a walk from the metra...especially in cold weather.

I was hoping it'd be a bit further north.

Quote from: murespect on March 05, 2012, 04:23:16 PM
I believe we're all talking about this location:

1357 N Elston Ave, Chicago, IL 60642

That's the Morton building you see from the Kennedy, but that doesn't seem like an idea location.  I was thinking Morton may own something a bit further north, i.e. Cortland & Elston maybe?

All this thread needs is and update on if Davante's jersey in the team suitcase.

Quote from: strotty on March 05, 2012, 05:09:27 PM
All this thread needs is and update on if Davante's jersey in the team suitcase.

I heard from a strong source that one of the managers is close to packing it for the BE Tournament.

Quote from: wildbill sb on March 05, 2012, 02:48:43 PM


It seems to me that any poster that resorts to name-calling cheapens only his degree from MU.

I apologize if I offended anyone by calling Equalizer the dumbest person on this board.

For those who may be interested in this illustrious program that has been proposed for Big East membership:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyola_Ramblers_men%27s_basketball

For those interested in Loyola great on-campus facilities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Gentile_Arena

Quote from: Benny B on March 05, 2012, 05:05:11 PM
That's the Morton building you see from the Kennedy, but that doesn't seem like an idea location.  I was thinking Morton may own something a bit further north, i.e. Cortland & Elston maybe?

You're thinking of the Finkl steel company on Cortland and Southport. Finkl is relocating to the very side-side of Chicago and their 14 acre property is for sale.  That would be perfect ... two blocks from the west end of campus and two blocks east of the Kennedy and Metra stops,

This was the rumor last year.  What happened here?

Loyola, seriously? That they are even being mentioned is a joke.

So what are the specifics of this so called reliable information?  I would think if this was a legitimate idea that Depaul would be mentioning it to the alumni as they would have to be raising money right?  Would they really buy the property before seeing if they have the pledges to build a new arena?  Any Depaul alumni on here hearing any whispers about this?

Guys, I heard Cardinal Stritch is looking to get in on the conference realignment carousel. Once they join, they'd eventually be big east caliber.

Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on March 05, 2012, 05:39:31 PM
I apologize if I offended anyone by calling Equalizer the dumbest person on this board.

For those who may be interested in this illustrious program that has been proposed for Big East membership:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyola_Ramblers_men%27s_basketball

For those interested in Loyola great on-campus facilities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Gentile_Arena

Four winning seasons in the last 24 and an on campus facility that holds less than 4500 fannies. Throw in the fact that it's in a crappy neighborhood and the administration and fanbase (such as it is) don't give a crap and you've got a program fortunate to be in the Horizon.

Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 05, 2012, 06:03:00 PM
You're thinking of the Finkl steel company on Cortland and Southport. Finkl is relocating to the very side-side of Chicago and their 14 acre property is for sale.  That would be perfect ... two blocks from the west end of campus and two blocks east of the Kennedy and Metra stops,

This was the rumor last year.  What happened here?

Finkl Steel deal fell through. The current property is owned by Morton Salt. It was described to me as being the "dome shaped" building on the river.

Quote from: The Equalizer on March 05, 2012, 03:29:45 PM
No, it doesn't work your way.  DePaul has $6.4 million to spend on basketball BECAUSE they are in the Big East.  No school can spend money they don't have and expect to stay in business. 

No it actually does work that way.  Schools don't go from spending $1.7M to $6.4M overnight just because they are in a new conference.  DePaul didn't just get there over night.  It has been building that overtime, and in part because of that dedication of resources, earned a BE membership.

For Loyola to get to that level, they would have to completely change their approach to basketball and to athletics.  They would have to dedicate more resources and turn around a fan-base that doesn't care. 

This is a process that would take decades.  Honestly, the best analogy is probably Gonzaga....and they still are in the same conference they were 20 years ago.  Loyola has YEARS of work ahead of them even to get to the Zags level.

Just thrusting Loyola into the BE doesn't change the nature of their program.  It is an absurd argument.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 06, 2012, 08:37:07 AM

No it actually does work that way.  Schools don't go from spending $1.7M to $6.4M overnight just because they are in a new conference.  DePaul didn't just get there over night.  It has been building that overtime, and in part because of that dedication of resources, earned a BE membership.

All I can say is that you quite obviously weren't following DePaul in the early 2000's if you think they were dedidcated to building their program in advance of joining the Big East.

Go back and read the Chicago Tribune at the time of the hiring of Dave Leitao, a couple years prior to the BE invitation:
http://bit.ly/w8E7BV (http://bit.ly/w8E7BV)
"It is apparent that DePaul has made the decision to operate its basketball program on a smaller, more midsized level."

Doesn't sound like the words used to describe a program dedicated to improving itself, does it?

And no matter what you claim, DePaul wasn't spending anywhere close to $6.4 Million before they were in the Big East.  No matter what you claim, they didn't commit to spending first, the hope that they would someday maybe get into the Big East.  

When did they ramp up spending?  Not when they hired Dave Leitao.  Not even when they hired Jerry Wainwright--in 2005, when they KNEW they would be a member of the Big East the next year.  Even then, they STILL weren't willing to spend to land a quality coach--they still took a guy they could get cheap.    

Face facts: they didn't commit to ramping up their spending until they replaced Wainright with Oliver Purnell--AFTER they had been a member of the Big East for several years and AFTER the BE money was rolling in.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 06, 2012, 08:37:07 AM

For Loyola to get to that level, they would have to completely change their approach to basketball and to athletics.  They would have to dedicate more resources and turn around a fan-base that doesn't care. 

This is a process that would take decades.  Honestly, the best analogy is probably Gonzaga....and they still are in the same conference they were 20 years ago.  Loyola has YEARS of work ahead of them even to get to the Zags level.

Yes, of course they would have to change.  Who said otherwise? The question is whether any program would do so without a committment from a BCS conference to offer them membership.

And your 20 year estimate is pure fiction.  Baylor has gone from irrelevance to a top 10 rank in less than 7 years. Of course, Baylor has the advantage of being in a BCS conference.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 06, 2012, 08:37:07 AM
Just thrusting Loyola into the BE doesn't change the nature of their program.  It is an absurd argument.

Are you saying that the nature of MU would not change if we were thrust into the Horizon tomorrow?  That's absurd--of course a BCS conference membership is a program-changing consideration.

The only question is what would a school do with it.  

I feel that this debate has reached its logically conclusion Equalizer... one that should have been reached without a debate.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 06, 2012, 08:13:07 AM
Finkl Steel deal fell through. The current property is owned by Morton Salt. It was described to me as being the "dome shaped" building on the river.

I'll wait to see what details come out.  The building with Morton on the side isn't dome shaped, its got two long peaks.  And that space doesn't seem big enough for an arena, much less any related infrastructure.

Loyola has put a higher emphasis on athletics over the past year or so. They've cleaned house in the department, added a new workout/office facility adjacent to their arena, and renovated the arena. They are definitely headed in the right direction. On top of that, I've heard they own property near their downtown campus that could eventually be used for a very adequate arena (10k+).

That being said, they have a long way to go. If DePaul stays stagnant for the next 10 years while Loyola builds off what they've started and grows at a best-case-scenario rate, and the BE is magically still around, then it's a conversation to have. In the meantime, it's not.

Quote from: JWags85 on March 06, 2012, 10:19:33 AM
I'll wait to see what details come out.  The building with Morton on the side isn't dome shaped, its got two long peaks.  And that space doesn't seem big enough for an arena, much less any related infrastructure.

(http://img.ezinemark.com/imagemanager2/files/30003693/2011/08/2011-08-19-17-26-46-11-logo-of-morton-salt-in-chicago-illinois-us.jpeg)

With that space you could fit something around the size of the AL. Parking would be a big question mark.

The Loyola stuff makes for fun give and take on this board, but Loyola will never, ever be joining the Big East.

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on March 06, 2012, 12:14:01 PM
With that space you could fit something around the size of the AL. Parking would be a big question mark.

Exactly, and exactly where I was thinking.  Short of redirecting Elston, it just doesn't seem like enough space?

Quote from: JWags85 on March 06, 2012, 12:16:55 PM
Exactly, and exactly where I was thinking.  Short of redirecting Elston, it just doesn't seem like enough space?

Exactly the reason I was thinking that Morton must own some more land in the area.  The only "dome" I see is the salt barn which isn't exactly riverfront and a building on Goose Island, which is a newer building that isn't coming down.

Quote from: Benny B on March 06, 2012, 01:19:52 PM
Exactly the reason I was thinking that Morton must own some more land in the area.

Or that they don't own any additional land and this is more entertaining to speculate than reality is to grasp.

Quote from: Benny B on March 06, 2012, 01:19:52 PM
Exactly the reason I was thinking that Morton must own some more land in the area.  The only "dome" I see is the salt barn which isn't exactly riverfront and a building on Goose Island, which is a newer building that isn't coming down.

Just to the south are acres and acres of empty riverfront lots currently a graveyard for cabs.

Quote from: MU82 on March 06, 2012, 12:16:21 PM
The Loyola stuff makes for fun give and take on this board, but Loyola will never, ever be joining the Big East.

No, probably not. 

But if metro NYC can support 3 league teams, Chicago could easily support two.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 06, 2012, 04:31:59 PM
Just to the south are acres and acres of empty riverfront lots currently a graveyard for cabs.

Is that the site?  I thought you said that wasn't the site.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 06, 2012, 04:31:59 PM
Just to the south are acres and acres of empty riverfront lots currently a graveyard for cabs.

From all Avenue Commons has provided, its where Ogden runs into the river just north of Chicago Ave.   Much further from DePaul than I thought.

The main issue with that spot is public transportation.  While it would be really nice to have it walkable for Depaul students, hanging out with enough since I moved to Chicago 4 years ago, I realized they are alot less central to campus than one would think.  I knew just as many Depaul students that lived in the South Loop and Wrigleyville as those that lived closer in LP.  Its all relative.

The difference is that the red line easily accessed all 3 of those areas.  You would have alot more cabs dropping people off as opposed to people walking I would think.

Then again, its no less accessible than the United Center.

Quote from: Benny B on March 06, 2012, 04:44:57 PM
Is that the site?  I thought you said that wasn't the site.

Again, it was described to me as the "dome shaped" building.

I was referencing the cab graveyard as where an obvious place for parking would be.

As a Loyola grad, who grew up in Milwaukee, the idea of the Ramblers playing in the Big East made me laugh.  They need to get out of the Horizon League cellar before they can even dream of being invited to the A-10.  We are all forgetting one thing though, if Marquette was not in the Big East today, they would have no chance of being invited to the Big East either because its all about Football.  So unless Loyola finds that donor to build that football stadium floating out on Lake Michigan, Loyola has no chance at the BEast even if they experience a miraculous turnaround and are in the NCAA tournament every year.  Heck they could go to 2 straight finals and still be in the Horizon League, aka Butler.

Regarding DePaul, if any new arena is not on campus or a least by the bars and public transit, I say don't bother.

Man, this would be epic for us.  I hope this guy's source is accurate.

I have to say, with the exception of the guy going on about Loyola, you are nice people. You're surprisingly supportive and respectful of DePaul.  Plus your traveling fans and alumni behave well at All State when it becomes Bradley South once or twice a year. Hate to say it, but DePaul is MU's younger sibling right now, not a rival. Just remember, there but for the grace of god go I. Anyway, being a DePaul fan is miserable right now and your sympathy is appreciated, by me at least.

That being said, I hope this isn't some sick joke to get DePaul fans' hopes up and then say April Fools.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 05, 2012, 10:08:03 AM
That would still be a long commute from campus, and you'd lose the northwest suburb crowd if there is any.

AKA Rockford? :)  yeah I don't know if the Lake Zurichian contingent would venture to the UC for a weekday MU-DPU game either (you KNOW we would never grab a coveted weekend slot).

Quote from: Victor McCormick on March 05, 2012, 04:19:12 PM
Let's just say there's a 90% chance of this happening.

BTW, someone on the DePaul Scout board quoted this, teal and all, and got all excited about the possibility.

It made me laugh.

Quote from: PleaseLetThisRumourBeTrue on March 06, 2012, 10:51:52 PM
Man, this would be epic for us.  I hope this guy's source is accurate.

I have to say, with the exception of the guy going on about Loyola, you are nice people. You're surprisingly supportive and respectful of DePaul.  Plus your traveling fans and alumni behave well at All State when it becomes Bradley South once or twice a year. Hate to say it, but DePaul is MU's younger sibling right now, not a rival. Just remember, there but for the grace of god go I. Anyway, being a DePaul fan is miserable right now and your sympathy is appreciated, by me at least.

That being said, I hope this isn't some sick joke to get DePaul fans' hopes up and then say April Fools.

I'm guessing you are not Chet Coppock.

Quote from: The Equalizer on March 06, 2012, 09:59:14 AM
All I can say is that you quite obviously weren't following DePaul in the early 2000's if you think they were dedidcated to building their program in advance of joining the Big East.

Go back and read the Chicago Tribune at the time of the hiring of Dave Leitao, a couple years prior to the BE invitation:
http://bit.ly/w8E7BV (http://bit.ly/w8E7BV)
"It is apparent that DePaul has made the decision to operate its basketball program on a smaller, more midsized level."

Doesn't sound like the words used to describe a program dedicated to improving itself, does it?

In 1999, MU just fired Deane, still practiced in the old gym, had lowest attendance in a while, and the students didn't even go to games. I know. I was a student and we would walk in 10 minutes late to watch South Florida thrash us. This of course was after Deane already used 3 timeouts.

I wouldn't say MU was exactly "prepping" for the Big East. MU got a good head coach, a once in a generation player, and the administration capitalized quickly.

This might happen at DePaul as there is some infrastructure and tradition. It won't happen at Loyola.

I did a quick measurement on Google maps of the Bradley Center and tried to put it on the Morton Salt site and the one way I see this as being feasible is having the court run north and south and the court being parallel with Elston.  This would also require the arena to be built in the truck parking lot north of the Morton Salt building itself and maybe raising the Morton Salt building and putting in a large parking ramp plus surface parking in the place of the Morton Salt building itself.  Parking revenue during the weekday?

Main entrances could be on the north and south ends reducing the east-west width between Elston and the river and the building could basically run parallel to the Kennedy allowing some good advertisement revenue along the freeway for the school or game advertisers.

Quote from: TedBaxter on March 07, 2012, 12:26:08 PM
Parking revenue during the weekday?

Main entrances could be on the north and south ends reducing the east-west width between Elston and the river and the building could basically run parallel to the Kennedy allowing some good advertisement revenue along the freeway for the school or game advertisers.

If its close enough to the Metra, perhaps parking revenue...otherwise who would park there?

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 07, 2012, 09:56:48 AM
BTW, someone on the DePaul Scout board quoted this, teal and all, and got all excited about the possibility.

It made me laugh.

I apologize to any DePaul fans who may have gotten their hopes up from my 90% prediction. Please read threads by Big Daddy for context.

DePaul fan here, new to this site... just wanted to say this thread has stirred a bit of discussion.  Some of have shot it down (via the scout site), others have noted that a deal for a stadium location may be in the works (bluedemonsnation.com - the counter culture fan site - where one doesn't have to pay for information).

Since this is my first trip into the unholy land of MuScoop, go easy on me.  ;D

Anyways since, I don't know the history of Mr. Ave Commons... I'd like to thank him for at least kicking this topic back into discussion on our side of the border and adding a ray of hope to our otherwise gloomy season.  Hopefully his info has some type of merit and DePaul can start building some excitement (as well as just start building).

As for the Morton property discussed, while it doesn't have the nec. acreage for a stadium the likes of the Horizon or Bradley center, it is bigger than the lot size that our old Alumni Hall took up, and I could envision a building like Cameron or Welsh-Ryan on that site, with an associated parking deck.

Oh, and btw, the Loyola discussion was absolutely hilarious.  It would be as if the Big East wanted to consider UW-Green Bay for membership.

Quote from: The Equalizer on March 06, 2012, 04:44:15 PM
No, probably not. 

But if metro NYC can support 3 league teams, Chicago could easily support two.

Let's go Chicago State.  Could we get them as a mirror opponent every year?

Quote from: LauxForThree on March 07, 2012, 04:28:38 PM

Oh, and btw, the Loyola discussion was absolutely hilarious.  It would be as if the Big East wanted to consider UW-Green Bay for membership.

Well, Wardle was a Golden Eagle.

There's a lot of people that owe Avenue Commons an apology.

http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786&feedID=661

Quote from: PTM on March 27, 2012, 10:20:58 AM
There's a lot of people that owe Avenue Commons an apology.

http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786&feedID=661

Can we trade Presidents?

Quote from: PTM on March 27, 2012, 10:20:58 AM
There's a lot of people that owe Avenue Commons an apology.

http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786&feedID=661

As we've seen time after time, one of the quickest ways to get brutalized on this board is to post inside information about anything.  Everyone begs for it, but then attacks anyone who is good enough to post it.  Thankfully, I don't know crap about crap, so I'm pretty safe.

Quote from: PTM on March 27, 2012, 10:20:58 AM
There's a lot of people that owe Avenue Commons an apology.

http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786&feedID=661

No apologies needed. I just hope that when I post something that people respect that I'm not making things up. I simply couldn't disclose my sources and I think I appropriately qualified my post. This is a fan-based message board. I don't have an obligation to disclose sources.

Good luck to DePaul.

Quote from: PTM on March 27, 2012, 10:20:58 AM
There's a lot of people that owe Avenue Commons an apology.

http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786&feedID=661

Ave Commons, I am not sorry for asking questions, nor am I sorry for participating in this thread. It's a college basketball board. I expect rumors, some which turn out to be true and some that don't.

Edited: And well done on being way ahead of the CSN Story.

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on March 27, 2012, 11:22:29 AM
Ave Commons, I am not sorry for asking questions, nor am I sorry for participating in this thread. It's a college basketball board. I expect rumors, some which turn out to be true and some that don't.

Edited: And well done on being way ahead of the CSN Story.

There is no issue with anyone asking questions. The issue I had is with some posters essentially demanding I divulge source(s). I have no obligation to do so and they don't have any authority to make any kinds of demands.

Quote from: PTM on March 27, 2012, 10:20:58 AM
There's a lot of people that owe Avenue Commons an apology.

http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786&feedID=661

Here's the Sun Times story on the plans for DePaul to "return home" to Chicago from Rosemont: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/11544685-419/depauls-strategic-plan-calls-for-mens-team-to-return-to-city.html (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/11544685-419/depauls-strategic-plan-calls-for-mens-team-to-return-to-city.html)

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 27, 2012, 11:20:51 AM
No apologies needed. I just hope that when I post something that people respect that I'm not making things up. I simply couldn't disclose my sources and I think I appropriately qualified my post. This is a fan-based message board. I don't have an obligation to disclose sources.

Good luck to DePaul.

At least your sources yielded an idea that was completely logical... if all unnamed sources spoke with that degree of intelligence, we wouldn't have 70+ page threads on nonsense.

Quote from: Benny B on March 27, 2012, 12:13:59 PM
At least your sources yielded an idea that was completely logical... if all unnamed sources spoke with that degree of intelligence, we wouldn't have 70+ page threads on nonsense.

True. I found it kind of hilarious that anyone would think that I would make up a story about DePaul's plans to build a new arena on the site of a salt plant on the shores of the Chicago River and post it on a Marquette message board.

I like to think of myself as a creative guy, but I'm not THAT creative. Nor that crazy.

Confessed newbie to be board, made my home in Chicago since MU undergrad (that's my qualifier for this...) In simply scanning this thread, I find it staggering that so many people have no concept of how close that property is to DePaul and how easily the student body can get there...the better property may have been Cortland and Southport but this will suit DePaul just fine.

Not sure I'd go so far as to call them a sleeping giant, but I'd guess this would do wonders to their recruiting and program. A glitzy new area with skyline views?

Quote from: The Special Brew on March 27, 2012, 12:50:18 PM
Confessed newbie to be board, made my home in Chicago since MU undergrad (that's my qualifier for this...) In simply scanning this thread, I find it staggering that so many people have no concept of how close that property is to DePaul and how easily the student body can get there...the better property may have been Cortland and Southport but this will suit DePaul just fine.

Not sure I'd go so far as to call them a sleeping giant, but I'd guess this would do wonders to their recruiting and program. A glitzy new area with skyline views?

And people can boat to the arena in the early fall.

Not to mention it is walking distance from the Cortland Metra stop which is a hub for all north and northwest bound Metra trains.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 27, 2012, 01:04:31 PM
And people can boat to the arena in the early fall.

Not to mention it is walking distance from the Cortland Metra stop which is a hub for all north and northwest bound Metra trains.

People can boat to the arena?

Quote from: murespect on March 27, 2012, 01:06:12 PM
People can boat to the arena?

Again, I have to fully qualify this with a "as I understand it....." but one of the goals is that this would be a fully intergrated, accessible arena on the shores of the river.

Coming on high from the White House is a dictate (not related to DePaul) that Chicago continue to clean up the river. A lot of progress has been made.

If they made that place like Washington's football stadium in Seattle so you could just pull your boat up....wow!

Didn't you hear Avenue? There's four species of fish in the river now. You'll be able to drink from it soon.

Quote from: The Special Brew on March 27, 2012, 01:13:54 PM
If they made that place like Washington's football stadium in Seattle so you could just pull your boat up....wow!

Didn't you hear Avenue? There's four species of fish in the river now. You'll be able to drink from it soon.

I wonder how much boat parking would be.  Does LAZ control all of that, too?

LAZ would plaster the river with meters.  But it would be pretty cool, if you could. 

There are a couple of water-taxi services that couple make the trip from downtown to either location.  Would be neat to leave work, grab a bite, hop on a boat to see Marquette beat up Depaul (seaonally).

House of Purnell? 
Aguirre Arena?
Comegys Center?
The Corbin Dome?

(And the obvious Meyer Arena/Center/Bungalow)

Quote from: T-Bone on March 27, 2012, 01:27:54 PM
LAZ would plaster the river with meters.  But it would be pretty cool, if you could. 

There are a couple of water-taxi services that couple make the trip from downtown to either location.  Would be neat to leave work, grab a bite, hop on a boat to see Marquette beat up Depaul (seaonally).

House of Purnell? 
Aguirre Arena?
Comegys Center?
The Corbin Dome?

(And the obvious Meyer Arena/Center/Bungalow)

Whoever puts the cash up to put their name on it.

Quote from: PTM on March 27, 2012, 03:30:16 PM
Whoever puts the cash up to put their name on it.

MUScoop Warrior Dome!?

Quote from: The Special Brew on March 27, 2012, 01:13:54 PM
If they made that place like Washington's football stadium in Seattle so you could just pull your boat up....wow!

Didn't you hear Avenue? There's four species of fish in the river now. You'll be able to drink from it soon.

Asian Carp
Common Carp
Bighead Carp
and...uh...Chicago Carp

Five species, if you count bloated dead bodies.

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 27, 2012, 12:19:31 PM
True. I found it kind of hilarious that anyone would think that I would make up a story about DePaul's plans to build a new arena on the site of a salt plant on the shores of the Chicago River and post it on a Marquette message board.

I like to think of myself as a creative guy, but I'm not THAT creative. Nor that crazy.

Well, your insight proved to be correct on "building a new arena," but it seems the location was a bit off.  And I'm not sure how much the city will care to cough up for development of property DePaul already owns.  Its now widely reported to be at Sheffield and Fullerton on what is now a street level parking lot and also bounded by Seminary and Altgeld (or Montana - I forget which is which).

Meant to give props to Ave Com, nicely done sir, you had this info way before anyone or media outlet I know.

Quote from: MUFC9295 on March 27, 2012, 10:49:18 PM
Well, your insight proved to be correct on "building a new arena," but it seems the location was a bit off.  And I'm not sure how much the city will care to cough up for development of property DePaul already owns.  Its now widely reported to be at Sheffield and Fullerton on what is now a street level parking lot and also bounded by Seminary and Altgeld (or Montana - I forget which is which).

The northwest x of Sheffield n Fullerton??? 

Quote from: chren21 on March 28, 2012, 06:05:18 AM
The northwest x of Sheffield n Fullerton??? 

From the mouth of Sweet Lou Canelis himself.

Quote from: MUFC9295 on March 27, 2012, 10:49:18 PM
Well, your insight proved to be correct on "building a new arena," but it seems the location was a bit off.  And I'm not sure how much the city will care to cough up for development of property DePaul already owns.  Its now widely reported to be at Sheffield and Fullerton on what is now a street level parking lot and also bounded by Seminary and Altgeld (or Montana - I forget which is which).

Don't forget that Avenue was also wrong on the architectural details, the list of contractors, the number of porta-potties, the construction traffic patterns, the number of parking spaces, the landscaping plan, which city official signed the permit, and which way the flag on the crane would blow.

Quote from: chren21 on March 28, 2012, 06:05:18 AM
The northwest x of Sheffield n Fullerton??? 

No way they could get away with it there....there's a strip mall there. Too congested, Fullerton's a two lane street, etc.

FWIW, latest CSN article, mentioning both properties discussed above.

http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786 (http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786)

Quote from: The Special Brew on March 28, 2012, 09:06:06 AM
No way they could get away with it there....there's a strip mall there. Too congested, Fullerton's a two lane street, etc.

FWIW, latest CSN article, mentioning both properties discussed above.

http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786 (http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786)

There's three ways to go with this. 
1. On campus at Sheffield and Fullerton.  Requires massive infrastructure overhaul for Fullerton Ave and Sheffield.  It's just not that big and gets backed up even now.  Causes massive headaches for the City.
2. Finkl - Requires a massive decontamination having being used as a steel plant.  They were one of the "cleaner" steel plants, but decades and decades of pollutants.  Could require significant infrastructure upgrades - Courtland Ave Bridge, and intersection of Kennedy with Armitage (and all points in between).  The infrastructure upgrades could be staged to offset traffic woes.  AND the Courtland Ave Bridge has Chicago Landmark status...  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortland_Street_Drawbridge)
3. Morton - Again would require cleanup, but not to the extent that Finkl would.  A bit farther from campus.  Might need some infrastructure updates (Elston is always potholed over there). 

Feasibility:
3, 2, 1.

Cost:
3, 2, 1.

Desire of DePaul (collectively):
1, 2, 3.

The city could possibly kick (condemn) the land over to DePaul in return for building a public park (I would guess with boat access - seems the current administration really likes boating) on one of the sites (aside from option #1).  And the city does love it's tax dollars that could be generated by the site. 

That's my two cents.  No inside information. 

I wouldn't be entirely shocked to see a TIF created for this....much as I despise the damn things. I agree with all your points, but at Shel and Ful just makes no sense for a city planning POV. This is Chicago, so that gets thrown out the window.  I can't imagine that strip mall would be condemned. Plus, there's far too many NIMBY'ers in LP. Never allow it to go forward in the time frame DePaul wants.

Quote from: The Special Brew on March 28, 2012, 09:06:06 AM
No way they could get away with it there....there's a strip mall there. Too congested, Fullerton's a two lane street, etc.

FWIW, latest CSN article, mentioning both properties discussed above.

http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786 (http://www.csnchicago.com/ncaa/news/DePaul-looking-to-build-new-arena-land-C?blockID=677786)

Its not so much a strip mall as a Depaul Welcome Center.  That location would be insane, but I just can't see it being feasible.  Lincoln and Halstead gets congested as it is, and with an arena a block west?  That would be nuts.

Quote from: The Special Brew on March 28, 2012, 09:52:31 AM
I wouldn't be entirely shocked to see a TIF created for this....much as I despise the damn things. I agree with all your points, but at Shel and Ful just makes no sense for a city planning POV. This is Chicago, so that gets thrown out the window.  I can't imagine that strip mall would be condemned. Plus, there's far too many NIMBY'ers in LP. Never allow it to go forward in the time frame DePaul wants.

It was those NIMBY'ers in LP that got Lounge Ax's license taken away!  Move in behind a place that has bands on a strip of bars, expect to have some noise - sack of d!cks! 

Yeah, it will be a TIF - and actually might make sense for either Finkl or Morton site, in terms of developing a fairly non-existent tax base.  And I despise TIFs as well.  Possibly even some EPA dollars for cleanup. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens.

Quote from: JWags85 on March 28, 2012, 09:56:25 AM
Its not so much a strip mall as a Depaul Welcome Center.  That location would be insane, but I just can't see it being feasible.  Lincoln and Halstead gets congested as it is, and with an arena a block west?  That would be nuts.

Of course, this is the city that has a ballpark that's in the middle of a residential area, 4 miles from a major highway (excluding LSD).

If DePaul and the City wanted to make it work, they probably could, but "major overhaul/redesign" would be an understatement.  It's one thing to have 30,000 people descending on a densely populated Northside neighborhood in the summer time; it'd be altogether worse to have 10,000 people descending on a similar locale during a snow event.

Quote from: T-Bone on March 28, 2012, 09:46:10 AM
The city could possibly kick (condemn) the land over to DePaul in return for building a public park (I would guess with boat access - seems the current administration really likes boating) on one of the sites (aside from option #1).  And the city does love it's tax dollars that could be generated by the site. 

That's my two cents.  No inside information. 

Great analysis.

City of Chicago could seize the land under emminent domain principles and turn it over to DePaul because of the considerable economic impact the new area would cause.

The US Supreme Court case is Kelo v. City of New London if you are interested in reading about it. Kind of crazy that can happen in America, but it's 100% legal and goes on all the time.

Not that I know anything about this stuff. I'm just some troll throwing "junk" up on message boards for kicks...........

Has DePaul reached out the Chicago Public League baskeball coaches about these plans?  It seems that hold all the basketball power in the Chicagoland area these days. 

Quote from: Benny B on March 28, 2012, 11:14:05 AM
Of course, this is the city that has a ballpark that's in the middle of a residential area, 4 miles from a major highway (excluding LSD).

If DePaul and the City wanted to make it work, they probably could, but "major overhaul/redesign" would be an understatement.  It's one thing to have 30,000 people descending on a densely populated Northside neighborhood in the summer time; it'd be altogether worse to have 10,000 people descending on a similar locale during a snow event.

The major differences in the venue sites (despite the obvious age and attendance) are the feeder streets.  wrigley has two E-W feeder streets (Irving Park - 4 lanes mostly from the Kennedy, and Addison - two lanes but converted to 3 at times near the park), a major N-S feeder in Clark (at least going north, south is a cluster) and possibly throw in relatively easy access to LSD - never had to drive that way post-game though.  Add in wrigley's remote parking, it also improves things (though I have no idea how much people actually use it).

But yeah, the seasonal difference could also contribute to additional difficulties.  Fullerton would be a nightmare.

Quote from: JWags85 on March 28, 2012, 09:56:25 AM
Its not so much a strip mall as a Depaul Welcome Center. 

I find that funny.

Quote from: MUFC9295 on March 27, 2012, 10:49:18 PM
Well, your insight proved to be correct on "building a new arena," but it seems the location was a bit off.  And I'm not sure how much the city will care to cough up for development of property DePaul already owns.  Its now widely reported to be at Sheffield and Fullerton on what is now a street level parking lot and also bounded by Seminary and Altgeld (or Montana - I forget which is which).

Did you read the news articles? My source was 100% correct about the Morton Salt location.

Now THIS might warrant an apology.

Fullerton and Sheffield location would be sweet. Used to walk by there every morning on the way to work.

Right near a huge red/brown/purple line, so people can easily buzz in and buzz out (as they do all summer long for Cubs and Sox games) if they ride the rails.

I just don't think there is a ton of space there. Houses jut into the square block pretty prominently. It would be like putting a stadium right behind McCormick on MUs campus, towards Wells. Just not a ton of space there.

Quote from: The Special Brew on March 28, 2012, 09:52:31 AM
I wouldn't be entirely shocked to see a TIF created for this....much as I despise the damn things. I agree with all your points, but at Shel and Ful just makes no sense for a city planning POV. This is Chicago, so that gets thrown out the window.  I can't imagine that strip mall would be condemned. Plus, there's far too many NIMBY'ers in LP. Never allow it to go forward in the time frame DePaul wants.

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!   I hate that focking word (TIF).

Quote from: MUFC9295 on March 28, 2012, 08:57:07 PM
Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!   I hate that focking word (TIF).

DePaul wouldn't need TIF anyway since they are not-for-profit.  They would likely just negotiate some sort of "payment for services" and agree to some sort of parking tax.

I was a home owner on Sheffield and Armitage 5bks away from either site mentioned.  I often thought about this topic. They'd need to build it on the river.  The problem with the river locations is the remediation work that is required on the land, but assuming they'd get past that, DePaul basketball would be back.  

The neighborhood association would never allow it on Fullerton.  There are 250 houses/Units worth more than 2MM in a 10 block radius from Sheffield/Fullerton intersection or something like that.  Money can build great venues, but it can also stop venues from forming.  And my experience with the Sheffield Neighbors Association is that they would do everything to keep this from happening.

Also, I spoke with someone on their board of trustees (or something similar, I can't remember) and he said they have surveyed dozens if not a hundred sites and they can't get any cleared for one reason or another.  He seemed resigned that it would never happen.

It would be great to get DePaul back and might be important for MU, since I think we are in for another  conference mix-up.  I can't put the why, into words, but I think DePaul having a good brand helps us.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 28, 2012, 09:44:24 PM

DePaul wouldn't need TIF anyway since they are not-for-profit.  They would likely just negotiate some sort of "payment for services" and agree to some sort of parking tax.

I'm vehemently and violently (well, not that bad) against TIF's...just a terrible creation. But I'm totally up to speed on how the work, get created and who may take advantage of them. I don't know that there are limits as to how the City Council can create them but they're generally to spur development. I'd guess there's no way DePaul would get it at Ful and Shef, but they could get it for one of the other locations.

Quote from: kcasper13 on March 29, 2012, 12:54:20 AM
I was a home owner on Sheffield and Armitage 5bks away from either site mentioned.  I often thought about this topic. They'd need to build it on the river.  The problem with the river locations is the remediation work that is required on the land, but assuming they'd get past that, DePaul basketball would be back.  

Someone needs to go out there, bury a bunch of asbestos, toxic waste, tires, PCB's, etc. and get the land in the emergency Superfund cleanup program.

In all seriousness, any land on or near the Chicago River would likely be a high priority if designated for remediation... but even expedited through the assessment stages, it's still going to be at least a year to do the actual cleanup.  At a minimum, they're probably be looking at two years before they can even start pouring the foundation.

However, I found out that there is already remediation work going on around the Finkl Steel site... maybe those gears have already been set in motion.

Quote from: The Special Brew on March 29, 2012, 10:35:11 AM
I'm vehemently and violently (well, not that bad) against TIF's...just a terrible creation. But I'm totally up to speed on how the work, get created and who may take advantage of them. I don't know that there are limits as to how the City Council can create them but they're generally to spur development. I'd guess there's no way DePaul would get it at Ful and Shef, but they could get it for one of the other locations.

Not sure you read my post, but I don't even think DePaul would need one....they likely wouldn't have to pay property tax anyway since it is a non profit.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 29, 2012, 11:30:08 AM

Not sure you read my post, but I don't even think DePaul would need one....they likely wouldn't have to pay property tax anyway since it is a non profit.

The City routinely grants them for anything and everything because an entity asked for it or the City wants it. Not well stated, but my point, as a follow up to yours, was that I'm not sure DePaul is eligible to take advantage of a TIF for the reason you stated and others. For remediation work on one of the other properties...possibly.

TIFs aren't really a matter of 'need.' There's a TIF in Uptown for 5 acres of prime lakefront property just off Montrose. Do you think a developer needs $30M of city money to develop it? Hell no, but it wants it and will get it.

Isn't a tif just a break on property taxes that is phased out over time?  Since depaul doesn't pay property tax they wouldn't need a tif.

Doesn't matter that DePaul is a non-profit. The point of a TIF is not to raise the value of the specific site, but rather the area as a whole. You set up a TIF district, where the increased tax revenues from that district (due to the increased property values of the area surrounding the new development) are paid into a separate account used to pay back the municipal bonds issued to finance the project. So the city will still be theoretically getting an increase in tax revenues from the stadium even if DePaul isn't paying taxes because the lot across the street will see a spike in property value (and thus tax). Basically the TIF is used to try and jump start development, using the future benefit the city receives from the development to jump start the whole process. While they are probably over used in certain cities (such as Chicago), there is probably an appropriate economic justification for them.

Thank you. I should have realized that.

Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on March 30, 2012, 09:38:58 AM
Doesn't matter that DePaul is a non-profit. The point of a TIF is not to raise the value of the specific site, but rather the area as a whole. You set up a TIF district, where the increased tax revenues from that district (due to the increased property values of the area surrounding the new development) are paid into a separate account used to pay back the municipal bonds issued to finance the project. So the city will still be theoretically getting an increase in tax revenues from the stadium even if DePaul isn't paying taxes because the lot across the street will see a spike in property value (and thus tax). Basically the TIF is used to try and jump start development, using the future benefit the city receives from the development to jump start the whole process. While they are probably over used in certain cities (such as Chicago), there is probably an appropriate economic justification for them.

The future rationale of TIF's make sense. The problem is that it simply doesn't work.  The City freezes taxes for a period of time (upwards of 10 years or more). The bulk of the taxes that are supposed to go to city services like police, fire and schools instead goes into the TIF account. That money is then used to spur development (read: given to a developer), and yes, in theory, raise property values and thus property taxes thereby paying for the years of frozen (and lost) tax revenue. The problem is that the system is abused and TIF's are routinely placed in areas for development where it's not needed, including the Loop, and the city just loses revenue, nevermind the fact that we're simply handing developers tens of millions of dollars to do their job, which is, ya know, to develop.  Then again, the City's revenue structure is such a mess that we end up with privatized parking system where got raped on the value of the parking system....

Off the soapbox. If you're interested in more (from an anti-TIF POV), read Ben Joravsky at the Chicago Reader.

Quote from: Benny B on March 29, 2012, 11:03:55 AM
Someone needs to go out there, bury a bunch of asbestos, toxic waste, tires, PCB's, etc. and get the land in the emergency Superfund cleanup program.

In all seriousness, any land on or near the Chicago River would likely be a high priority if designated for remediation... but even expedited through the assessment stages, it's still going to be at least a year to do the actual cleanup.  At a minimum, they're probably be looking at two years before they can even start pouring the foundation.

However, I found out that there is already remediation work going on around the Finkl Steel site... maybe those gears have already been set in motion.

Does Chicago or its Mayor have any contacts in DC that could help with this?

This would be great for DePaul

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-depaul-in-early-talks-with-a-finkl-for-arena-site-20130416,0,2748263.story

Interesting. But I can't see any new arena filling enough dates to make it viable. Does Chicago really need another arena? Yes, it would be wonderful for DePaul, but are there really enough concerts and conferences to fill the rest of the calendar? The Chicago area already has so many venues

Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 05, 2012, 10:44:04 AM
Let's just say I know people who know things. This is going to happen. This isn't a "might." Barring a complete break down in negotiations, this deal will go through.

Also, I may have it mixed up in my head and we're all talking about the same thing, but my understanding is the specific property of the Morton Salt Co. is where there is already a dome shaped building. I don't think it's that empty field where all the cabs are parked. But I'm not 100% clear on that. I'll find out.

I don't think that anyone doubts DePaul would buy this property.  Getting the property just starts things.  Arenas are expensive propositions, and DePaul could always use the land for something else.

Quote from: LittleMurs on April 16, 2013, 07:07:26 PM
I don't think that anyone doubts DePaul would buy this property.  Getting the property just starts things.  Arenas are expensive propositions, and DePaul could always use the land for something else.

Still very surprised they turned down that rent-free offer from the UC. Seems like a no-brainer to me. What am I missing?

Quote from: Groin_pull on April 16, 2013, 07:09:28 PM

Still very surprised they turned down that rent-free offer from the UC. Seems like a no-brainer to me. What am I missing?

Trouble getting dates scheduled around both the Blackhawks and the Bulls.  No part of concessions or parking.

Quote from: LittleMurs on April 16, 2013, 07:59:09 PM
Trouble getting dates scheduled around both the Blackhawks and the Bulls.  No part of concessions or parking.

Pretty sure Marquette would rather have free rent than the concessions and parking.

Quote from: Groin_pull on April 16, 2013, 07:09:28 PM

Still very surprised they turned down that rent-free offer from the UC. Seems like a no-brainer to me. What am I missing?

This site is a 15 minute walk from campus.

It's a 15-20 minute drive from the Mag Mile.

It's less than a mile from the Red Line.

It's less than half a mile from the Brown and Purple.

It's a block away from a major METRA stop.

It's three blocks from a Kennedy on/off ramp.

It is the perfect site for DePaul, and they should be excited. I am, jump on the METRA to see Marquette play there once a year. Maybe catch some other BE games as well if Marquette is out of town on the weekend.

This site will start stealing a lot of the acts that usually play Allstate Arena.

Quote from: Marqevans on April 16, 2013, 08:25:47 PM
Pretty sure Marquette would rather have free rent than the concessions and parking.

Incorrect.

Quote from: PTM on April 16, 2013, 08:27:41 PM
This site is a 15 minute walk from campus.

It's a 15-20 minute drive from the Mag Mile.

It's less than a mile from the Red Line.

It's less than half a mile from the Brown and Purple.

It's a block away from a major METRA stop.

It's three blocks from a Kennedy on/off ramp.

It is the perfect site for DePaul, and they should be excited. I am, jump on the METRA to see Marquette play there once a year. Maybe catch some other BE games as well if Marquette is out of town on the weekend.

This site will start stealing a lot of the acts that usually play Allstate Arena.

I'm am super excited about this if it pans out. I live a few blocks away and would most definitely go to quite a few games a year. The area that is being proposed is prime for a new stadium. I can see a lot of development happening on the river since all the factories located there are leaving. The area has one of the nicest views of downtown Chicago too!

FWIW, there are apparently serious environmental issues with the Finkl site.  Kind of stuff where it takes tens of millions of dollars and years of work to clean up.

Quote from: PTM on April 16, 2013, 08:27:59 PM
Incorrect.

I thought the cost of using the Bradley Center was one of the reasons that Marquette is like second in spending the most money on their basketball team.  I think there is an old thread on this.

Quote from: Marqevans on April 17, 2013, 08:16:21 AM
I thought the cost of using the Bradley Center was one of the reasons that Marquette is like second in spending the most money on their basketball team.  I think there is an old thread on this.

It's one of the reasons, but those numbers can't be trusted. It's an expense, so it counts to the spending number, but back in 2004 there was a discussion about how well MU does with concession revenue more than Notre Dame due to the alcohol sales which was sparked by MU playing Lewis in the Al.

Quote from: chr31ter on April 17, 2013, 12:08:07 AM
FWIW, there are apparently serious environmental issues with the Finkl site.  Kind of stuff where it takes tens of millions of dollars and years of work to clean up.

I believe there's a substantial difference in what needs to be cleaned up in relation to what the land use is.  Commercial/Industrial clean up won't be as expensive as they would need to do for residential. 

http://www.epa.state.il.us/land/taco/index.html (It's in there somewhere)

Not an expert in the field, but it sounds right to me.

Quote from: PTM on April 16, 2013, 08:27:41 PM

This site will start stealing a lot of the acts that usually play Allstate Arena.

I am not so sure you are right to be honest.  Depends on how many seats they put in there.  The UIC Pavilion and United Center are direct competition as well...

Quote from: icheights on April 17, 2013, 10:48:54 AM
I am not so sure you are right to be honest.  Depends on how many seats they put in there.  The UIC Pavilion and United Center are direct competition as well...

Pavilion for sure. UC is just too big for some of those big, but not huge acts. Maroon 5 and NKOTB for example looking at the Allstate's calendar, being so close to downtown will be appealing with a large college campus within walking distance.

There's also the Sears Center farther out west, where MU lost to dayton a few years back.  Awful.

Currently on tap there (11k seats):
http://www.searscentre.com/events/
I don't know if HS graduations are big money makers...

To compare:
Allstate (18k seats)
http://www.allstatearena.com/calendar/default.aspx  
Which is pretty wide open.

UIC Pavillion (6,900 seats)
http://www.uicpavilion.com/pavilion/events/

If DePaul goes 13-15k, they could poach better events from Sears, Allstate, and even UIC.

Quote from: chr31ter on April 17, 2013, 12:08:07 AM
FWIW, there are apparently serious environmental issues with the Finkl site.  Kind of stuff where it takes tens of millions of dollars and years of work to clean up.

Not entirely true.  I'm awaiting details, but there's a good chance that most or all of the remediation is complete.

Quote from: Benny B on April 17, 2013, 01:53:49 PM
Not entirely true.  I'm awaiting details, but there's a good chance that most or all of the remediation is complete.

I am not sure how the remediation process is going, but the move is only about 60 percent complete.  It would be hard for all of the necessary work to be complete if the foundry is still operational.  Most of the required work in order to complete remediation is within the soil that the plant is on due to chemical runoffs (possibly) present from the forging processes.  So with buildings still standing there is a lot more work that should need to go into remediation.  Still hard to say how much that is though because it would still probably be hard to say how much harmful chemicals have infiltrated the soil in the area.  That being said.  This area is designated as a "planned manufacturing area" which means that it is slated as an area for future manufacturing businesses.  Chicago Aldermen would have to change the designation in order to convert this land to a residential development, but I am not sure what that would mean for a commercial (stadium) development.

Quote from: MountainCreek19 on April 17, 2013, 02:13:16 PM
I am not sure how the remediation process is going, but the move is only about 60 percent complete.  It would be hard for all of the necessary work to be complete if the foundry is still operational.  Most of the required work in order to complete remediation is within the soil that the plant is on due to chemical runoffs (possibly) present from the forging processes.  So with buildings still standing there is a lot more work that should need to go into remediation.  Still hard to say how much that is though because it would still probably be hard to say how much harmful chemicals have infiltrated the soil in the area.  That being said.  This area is designated as a "planned manufacturing area" which means that it is slated as an area for future manufacturing businesses.  Chicago Aldermen would have to change the designation in order to convert this land to a residential development, but I am not sure what that would mean for a commercial (stadium) development.

NM -- I was looking at a different site.

Quote from: PTM on April 17, 2013, 09:29:44 AM
It's one of the reasons, but those numbers can't be trusted. It's an expense, so it counts to the spending number, but back in 2004 there was a discussion about how well MU does with concession revenue more than Notre Dame due to the alcohol sales which was sparked by MU playing Lewis in the Al.

So you think the profit (not the sales) from concessions exceeds the rent for the Bradley Center?

$300 million- http://www.suntimes.com/20088232-761/exclusive-rahm-to-announce-300-million-depaul-stadium-plan-for-mccormick-place.html

Good for them.

I don't think there is a chance in hell that the state is going to pony up $100 million for this.  Does Rahm not read the paper?  The state is broke.  It would be political suicide to vote to spend this money when 99% of the residents of this state don't give a crap about DePaul basketball.

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2013, 04:25:36 PM
I don't think there is a chance in hell that the state is going to pony up $100 million for this.  Does Rahm not read the paper?  The state is broke.  It would be political suicide to vote to spend this money when 99% of the residents of this state don't give a crap about DePaul basketball.

The only political suicide in Illinois is actual suicide.

As a DePaul alumnus in Chicago, this sucks. Not just cause it's using taxpayer money in midst of spiraling debt problems, but the location is still over 6 miles away from the main campus (or around 60 minutes via public transportation). I was excited to see a Chicago arena for DePaul, but this location is still quite inconvenient (albeit a little less) for any student to get to.

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2013, 04:25:36 PM
I don't think there is a chance in hell that the state is going to pony up $100 million for this.  Does Rahm not read the paper?  The state is broke.  It would be political suicide to vote to spend this money when 99% of the residents of this state don't give a crap about DePaul basketball.

Agree. Chicago fans care more about Wolves minor league hockey than DePul basketball. The city does not need another arena. It already has the UC...All State Arena...and that facility out in Hoffman Estates. The city—and state—are broke. Why is this so hard to understand?

Rahm's financing plan is stupid on all three fronts

1. $100 million from the state - addressed above
2.  $100 million from naming rights - this amount is 5 times more than the most lucrative naming rights deal for a college basketball stadium to date.  The typical deal is way less than $10 million.  Syracuse only got $2.75 million for the Carrier Dome.
3.  $100 million from DePaul.  It would be very difficult to raise that kind of coin if you can't name the building after the major donor. I suppose you just need to get 100,000 people to donate $1,000 each.  Also, would alums be willing to donate for a building that the university won't even own outright?

Bad taxpayer plan.

Bad location.

Just plain bad.

Quote from: kryza on May 13, 2013, 04:35:49 PM
As a DePaul alumnus in Chicago, this sucks. Not just cause it's using taxpayer money in midst of spiraling debt problems, but the location is still over 6 miles away from the main campus (or around 60 minutes via public transportation). I was excited to see a Chicago arena for DePaul, but this location is still quite inconvenient (albeit a little less) for any student to get to.

This is still 1,000 times better for students.  You'll be able to take the El down there whenever you want.  Want to show up early and go out to eat... you can.  And then, when they're down by 30 ten minutes into the 2nd half, you can leave early and get sloshed.

Quote from: chr31ter on May 13, 2013, 06:32:49 PM
This is still 1,000 times better for students.  You'll be able to take the El down there whenever you want.  Want to show up early and go out to eat... you can.  And then, when they're down by 30 ten minutes into the 2nd half, you can leave early and get sloshed.

This is it: totally logical approach to the location.

Which means it's destined to fail. ;)

I still think that Depaul would have been better off simply using the rent free united center, especially in terms of recruiting.

Quote from: mufib on May 13, 2013, 09:06:35 PM
I still think that Depaul would have been better off simply using the rent free united center, especially in terms of recruiting.

I'm not sure it's great for recruiting to be playing in a cavernous arena that will be half full.

Rahm wants this pretty bad, so I think it happens, unfortunately. He wants to add two hotels as well to bolster the McPier district.

For DePaul, its better, but the worst option. Still too far for students. Still very hard to get to. Far more difficult trip for MU fans.

For Chicago, not that bad.  Near Lakefront arena will do well, Chicago will attract the Allstate acts now. Still a waste of money.

Quote from: mufib on May 13, 2013, 09:06:35 PM
I still think that Depaul would have been better off simply using the rent free united center, especially in terms of recruiting.

For 10  years.  Then what?

Besides, while the UC offered DePaul a ton, they never offered what the school considered to be an acceptable scheduling arrangement.

Quote from: PTM on May 13, 2013, 09:38:59 PM
Rahm wants this pretty bad, so I think it happens, unfortunately.

I think you are seriously overestimating Rahm's clout.  Does anyone besides him think this is a viable plan?

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2013, 10:19:26 PM
I think you are seriously overestimating Rahm's clout.  Does anyone besides him think this is a viable plan?

Mike Madigan and the AFL-CIO

Quote from: warriorchick on May 13, 2013, 10:19:26 PM
I think you are seriously overestimating Rahm's clout.  Does anyone besides him think this is a viable plan?

Rahm doesn't go public unless the deal is done. It's happening.

Then there's Blackheart's point.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 13, 2013, 10:25:38 PM
the AFL-CIO

Ding. Ding.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 13, 2013, 10:25:38 PM
Mike Madigan and the AFL-CIO

You have just made my point.

Hey, did I miss something?  The following sentence was in the Chicago Tribune Article about the proposed stadium:

QuoteDePaul is leaving the Big East Conference and joining the new American Athletic Conference, which begins play next season.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-bkc-depaul-newssx6541da1-20130513,0,957637.story

Apparently the Trib doesn't think the story was important enough to write its own article.  They just printed the story that Reuters put out.

Will a company really pay $100 million naming rights for a DePaul Arena?

Funny how Rahm will give $100 million to a private university yet Ricketts is spending his own money to rebuild a huge Chicago tourist attraction. Not only that, Rahm made him agree to make improvements to the city (playgrounds, etc) before the city would let him renovate Wrigley with his own money.

More reason for the Cubs to leave the City.

I don't really think Chicago is "giving $100 M to a private university."  They are building an arena that they will give DePaul proprietary use of.  DePaul isn't going to own it.

I'm not saying this is a good idea, but the City of Los Angeles helped USC with the Galen Center...but nowhere near this extent.  I'm sure the math is going to attempt to show that the $100M in bonding authority is going to be paid back somehow to make sure it breaks even, but I can't see how that's going to happen.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 14, 2013, 08:37:23 AM
Will a company really pay $100 million naming rights for a DePaul Arena?

Funny how Rahm will give $100 million to a private university yet Ricketts is spending his own money to rebuild a huge Chicago tourist attraction. Not only that, Rahm made him agree to make improvements to the city (playgrounds, etc) before the city would let him renovate Wrigley with his own money.

More reason for the Cubs to leave the City.

Not as bad as the feuds Daley and the Cubs used to have. Daley blocked almost every attempt Tribune Co. made to use their own money to do anything to Wrigley Field even as he was spending taxpayer money to give the White Sox anything Reinsdorf asked for.

Quote from: warriorchick on May 14, 2013, 07:57:08 AM
Hey, did I miss something?  The following sentence was in the Chicago Tribune Article about the proposed stadium:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-bkc-depaul-newssx6541da1-20130513,0,957637.story

Apparently the Trib doesn't think the story was important enough to write its own article.  They just printed the story that Reuters put out.

That's fantastic stuff, warriorchick!

It's also outrageously awful, lazy journalism. Maybe Murdoch will be a perfect fit as Tribune Co. owner after all.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on May 14, 2013, 08:37:23 AM
Will a company really pay $100 million naming rights for a DePaul Arena?

Funny how Rahm will give $100 million to a private university yet Ricketts is spending his own money to rebuild a huge Chicago tourist attraction. Not only that, Rahm made him agree to make improvements to the city (playgrounds, etc) before the city would let him renovate Wrigley with his own money.

More reason for the Cubs to leave the City.

The Cubs will never leave the city. Without the city, who are the Cubs? The product on the field isn't filling those seats.

Quote from: kilbournave on May 14, 2013, 08:47:01 AM
The Cubs will never leave the city. Without the city, who are the Cubs? The product on the field isn't filling those seats.

Without the Cubs who is Wrigleyville?  The rooftop owners and bar owners would all go rot. 

You can't have a $300 million arena where the main tennant is a team that plays 18 games a year and can't sell 5,000 seats per game.

Quote from: kilbournave on May 14, 2013, 08:47:01 AM
The Cubs will never leave the city. Without the city, who are the Cubs? The product on the field isn't filling those seats.

A lot of Cubs fans in the suburbs see them play in Milwaukee rather than at Wrigley because it is easier to get too.

Sure you would lose the tourist, but you would gain everyone who avoids Wrigley for the easier option of Miller Park.

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 14, 2013, 08:43:12 AM
I don't really think Chicago is "giving $100 M to a private university."  They are building an arena that they will give DePaul proprietary use of.  DePaul isn't going to own it.

I'm not saying this is a good idea, but the City of Los Angeles helped USC with the Galen Center...but nowhere near this extent.  I'm sure the math is going to attempt to show that the $100M in bonding authority is going to be paid back somehow to make sure it breaks even, but I can't see how that's going to happen.

Read the article carefully, fellas. Rahm isn't offering a single dime of City money for this.  He wants everyone else to pay for it.  Then of course he will swoop rignt in and insist on set-asides for Chicago-based businesses, dibs on the parking revenue, and of course, City entertainment tax on the tickets and City sales taxes on concessions. 

As far as Rahm is concerned, it's all good.

Quote from: PTM on May 13, 2013, 09:38:59 PM
Rahm wants this pretty bad, so I think it happens, unfortunately. He wants to add two hotels as well to bolster the McPier district.

For DePaul, its better, but the worst option. Still too far for students. Still very hard to get to. Far more difficult trip for MU fans.

For Chicago, not that bad.  Near Lakefront arena will do well, Chicago will attract the Allstate acts now. Still a waste of money.

Still too far for students? You are working off the idea that everyone who goes to DePaul lives in Lincoln park as opposed to all over the city.  Not to mention forgetting that the loop campus would be tremendously closer, that's a few hundred students they didn't have when they played at the Allstate. 

Quote from: chr31ter on May 13, 2013, 06:32:49 PM
This is still 1,000 times better for students.  You'll be able to take the El down there whenever you want.  Want to show up early and go out to eat... you can.  And then, when they're down by 30 ten minutes into the 2nd half, you can leave early and get sloshed.

Which El stop?  The closest would be Cermak/Chinatown or possibly 35th on the Green Line.  Shuttle service would be required.  

I'll be disappointed if this happens at this location.  (Not to mention a casino)

From related article (and a good read all-in-all):
http://www.suntimes.com/20090202-761/analysis-depaul-arena-plan-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers.html

Quote"Not only is it ridiculous having an 18-event anchor tenant, but it's an anchor tenant that can barely sell 10,000 seats a game. It's not like it's a professional sports team or a well-established college basketball power. It's neither of those two. That's why there has to be something else going on. Because on its face, it's a foolish proposition."

Quote from: T-Bone on May 14, 2013, 09:59:41 AM
Which El stop?  The closest would be Cermak/Chinatown or possibly 35th on the Green Line.  Shuttle service would be required.

http://www.chicagojournal.com/blogs/near-loop-wire/10-14-2011/New_CTA_Green_Line_station_slated_for_Cermak_in_South_Loop

From the city's perspective, I think they're looking two or three high-rise hotels, McCormick Place, a casino, and a new DePaul Arena all within walking distance of each other.  Maybe even connected to each other via a series of pedestrian bridges.

The casino could use the arena to attract shows and/or concerts.  McCormick Place has needed a convention hall in addition to an exhibition hall for quite some time.

For all that?  I could see the City of Chicago figuring it was worth the sale of $100 million in bonds to attact the casino and the hotels, not to mention the extra convention spending.

Quote from: chr31ter on May 14, 2013, 12:06:13 PM
http://www.chicagojournal.com/blogs/near-loop-wire/10-14-2011/New_CTA_Green_Line_station_slated_for_Cermak_in_South_Loop

From the city's perspective, I think they're looking two or three high-rise hotels, McCormick Place, a casino, and a new DePaul Arena all within walking distance of each other.  Maybe even connected to each other via a series of pedestrian bridges.

The casino could use the arena to attract shows and/or concerts.  McCormick Place has needed a convention hall in addition to an exhibition hall for quite some time.

For all that?  I could see the City of Chicago figuring it was worth the sale of $100 million in bonds to attact the casino and the hotels, not to mention the extra convention spending.

If this is the scenario, I think it would be idiotic for DePaul to agree to provide 1/3 of the money to build this thing.  For 18 dates a year, when you have an offer on the table to use another facility for free?  What benefit is it for them to have skin in this game?

If it is true that Rahm will get this done one way or another, DePaul should hang back and let other entities fund it, then offer to rent it at market rate for basketball games.

QuoteWhich El stop?  The closest would be Cermak/Chinatown or possibly 35th on the Green Line.  Shuttle service would be required.

  I recall discussions on this board in the past saying if this goes through the CTA will install a new red/green line stop near McCormick place.  Also, how do you get to Bears games??  If you don't pay $60 to park near Soldier field and you park in the South lots your a mile away right there and thats when you drive to the stadium.  The fact that they are looking to build this complex at this location tells me that they have some transportation idea or just don't give two shits about it.

Quote from: chr31ter on May 14, 2013, 12:06:13 PM
http://www.chicagojournal.com/blogs/near-loop-wire/10-14-2011/New_CTA_Green_Line_station_slated_for_Cermak_in_South_Loop

Thank you for the link. 

Quote from: damuts222 on May 14, 2013, 12:30:34 PM
I recall discussions on this board in the past saying if this goes through the CTA will install a new red/green line stop near McCormick place.  Also, how do you get to Bears games??  If you don't pay $60 to park near Soldier field and you park in the South lots your a mile away right there and thats when you drive to the stadium.  The fact that they are looking to build this complex at this location tells me that they have some transportation idea or just don't give two craps about it.

Roosevelt stop works great and hits 3 El lines with easy transfers to the rest.  Shuttle from parking garages and the 146 bus all work reasonably well if you don't want to hoof it. 

I've never been crazy on the casino idea in Chicago.  It seems a shortsighted solution to the much larger problems we have.  So let the unions have their way with hugely lucrative contracts and continue to run business as usual.

OT:  Does anyone have any info on how Pottawatomie has helped for Milwaukee fiscally?  Judging from Google maps it doesn't appear to have sparked development in the area.

Quote from: damuts222 on May 14, 2013, 12:30:34 PM
 

  I recall discussions on this board in the past saying if this goes through the CTA will install a new red/green line stop near McCormick place.  Also, how do you get to Bears games??  If you don't pay $60 to park near Soldier field and you park in the South lots your a mile away right there and thats when you drive to the stadium.  The fact that they are looking to build this complex at this location tells me that they have some transportation idea or just don't give two craps about it.

This. There will be an L stop a block away when all is said and done. Plus metra is right there. There are some reasons this is stupid but transportation accessibility is not one of them.

http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2013/05/14/sun-times-depaul-stadium-planned-mccormick

Quote from: Victor McCormick on May 14, 2013, 03:10:33 PM
This. There will be an L stop a block away when all is said and done. Plus metra is right there. There are some reasons this is stupid but transportation accessibility is not one of them.

South side Metra is right there. There's not too many DePaul fans coming in from Homewood, unless Jerel wants to watch his alma mater against DePaul.

I'm not against the plan, just selfishly hoped it would have been on the northside.

As a state of Illinois taxpayer, I am infinity percent against this plan. If the city wants to use their own money, fine, I don't care. As a Kane County resident, I expect to contribute zero dollars and zero cents to this proposal, and I live in the suburbs. Quinn's up for re-election next year, after saying "no way will I raise state income taxes" during his last campaign (for those that don't live in the state, income taxes went up 66% literally minutes before the incoming state legislature for 2011 was coming in), there is no way he will offer state money for this. Good luck trying to convince anyone south of I-80 to support this.

Quote from: MUDish on May 14, 2013, 10:51:03 PM
As a state of Illinois taxpayer, I am infinity percent against this plan. If the city wants to use their own money, fine, I don't care. As a Kane County resident, I expect to contribute zero dollars and zero cents to this proposal, and I live in the suburbs. Quinn's up for re-election next year, after saying "no way will I raise state income taxes" during his last campaign (for those that don't live in the state, income taxes went up 66% literally minutes before the incoming state legislature for 2011 was coming in), there is no way he will offer state money for this. Good luck trying to convince anyone south of I-80 to support this.

+1

Downstaters are still mad about the state paying for White Sox Park, and I don't blame them one bit.

Are these bonds tax supported?  Or are they supposedly going to be paid with the proceeds of whatever they do with the site?

Lol...government already has your tax money for this deal.   McPier already floated the bond before they were privatized.  Navy Pier has almost $80mm to spend of this public money with ideas like a lake iceberg sculpture or a small, unprofitable hotel. The state needs to approve infrastructure funds and the casino and those entertainment taxes for more of the feeding frenzy, This is all Olympics money long approved and legislated. Now it is time to spend it all!

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 15, 2013, 08:04:09 AM
This is all Olympics money long approved and legislated. Now it is time to spend it all!

Let the games begin...

Quote from: PTM on May 14, 2013, 09:41:54 PM
South side Metra is right there. There's not too many DePaul fans coming in from Homewood, unless Jerel wants to watch his alma mater against DePaul.

I'm not against the plan, just selfishly hoped it would have been on the northside.

Yup that Metra really isn't convenient if you come from anywhere north. It starts at Randolph near millennium park, which isn't connected to any of the other Metra lines. The Metra runs a lot less frequently than the L outside of commuter hours (~once an hour) and you can't transfer between the L and Metra, meaning you'd have to buy two tickets each way coming from Depauls campus.

There's just not a good public transit option in place now by train, and bus lines from DePaul would take as long as getting to Allstate arena.  

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 15, 2013, 08:04:09 AM
Lol...government already has your tax money for this deal.   McPier already floated the bond before they were privatized.  Navy Pier has almost $80mm to spend of this public money with ideas like a lake iceberg sculpture or a small, unprofitable hotel. The state needs to approve infrastructure funds and the casino and those entertainment taxes for more of the feeding frenzy, This is all Olympics money long approved and legislated. Now it is time to spend it all!

The modern Olympic movement in a nutshell.

As someone who grew up across the street from DePaul I thought I was going to read something factual about the stadium situation.  I will date myself here and let you know that the neighborhood around DePaul when I was growing up was a ghetto just like MU was when I went there.  Completely different now around DePaul.  

I understand the feeling about Illinois/suburbs vs. Chicago.  I grew up with that.  As the great Mike Royko said "If it wasn't for Chicago, Illinois would be just an Indiana or an Iowa."

As far as the suburbs that are in Cook County they do contribute to Chicago and vice versa in tax dollars.

Naperville a suburb?  That is hilarious.

The machine controls the city and the state so "why can't we get along" because the man is in control.  

Also most of the "man's" who led the state are now in jail.

And one more point about "Chicago White Sox Field".  Not a fair comparison to DePaul since the team/White Sox and the White Sox PLAYERS have paid a significant amount of state income tax over the last 23 years that probably have paid for the stadium and then some.  DePaul players are not paying income tax as far as I know.

And why would these so called "Downstaters" be upset?

Owner: Illinois Sports Facilities Authority
Cost: $167 million
Public financing: $167 million, or 100 percent, mostly from a 2 percent tax on hotels in Chicago

Off to New Orleans for the weekend with no computer....the only way to go.

Sorry, late to this city v. suburbs party, but can someone share a link to a story about DePaul?

  It's getting to be more official.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130515/BLOGS02/130519849?template=mobile&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

Only $140 million. DePaul is kicking in half and retains naming rights.

I guess it's official, what a crock...

Here's the email I just received from the DePaul president;

Last year, DePaul University's strategic plan, Vision 2018, articulated the university's goals for the next six years. One goal—bringing men's basketball back to Chicago—created a flurry of speculation about possible sites for a new DePaul basketball arena.

Today, I am thrilled to tell you that Mayor Rahm Emanuel has just announced the city's plans for a large-scale tourism and economic development project near McCormick Place—one that will include a new 10,000-seat events center that will serve as home to DePaul basketball.

The center will bring together the large and diverse community of DePaul students, alumni and fans from Chicago and its suburbs. In addition to hosting home games for DePaul basketball teams and serving as a practice facility, the venue will support other high-profile functions for both DePaul and the Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority (MPEA)—including DePaul commencement ceremonies and Chicago's convention-related business. Our hope is to play the 2016-17 season in our new home.

DePaul's investment in this partnership with the city will amount to $70 million. Funding will come from ticket sales, naming rights, and revenues generated by DePaul athletics and the BIG EAST Conference. We also plan to generate funds from those most committed to our athletic programs. We expect we can complete this project without affecting tuition.

DePaul makes this investment for several compelling reasons. Most immediately, this partnership provides a rare opportunity to bring DePaul basketball back to the city at a reasonable cost while helping the City achieve its goals of rejuvenating Motor Row. College basketball presents invaluable opportunities to shine a light on DePaul's excellent academic reputation and its commitment to its community. This first-class events center and its more central location will help us build on the momentum our basketball program has enjoyed in recent years from hiring first-rate coaches and staff. Alumni will find the broadened name recognition a help when competing for jobs nationally. Ultimately, this new facility will create a tide that will lift the entire DePaul community on many fronts.

This project builds upon a decade of sustained strategic investment that has resulted in great gains in DePaul's visibility and academic excellence. In July, DePaul will open major new buildings for our College of Education and The Theatre School. The university is nearing completion of architectural plans for a new building for the School of Music. These follow numerous facilities improvements over the past six years. In addition, new partnerships with Rosalind Franklin University Medical School, Cinespace Studios, the Chicago History Museum, Catholic Theological Union, Facing History and Ourselves, Gordon Tech College Prep and Lake View High School demonstrate DePaul's commitment to the larger community and its value as a strategic partner for many respected institutions.

This reinvention of DePaul has been accomplished through the vision and hard work of the entire DePaul community, including the many alumni and friends who have supported The Many Dreams, One Mission Campaign. Through the efforts of so many of you, the Campaign has generated $283 million in funds to date for student scholarships, academic programs and faculty support. This truly is an inspired community that cares deeply for the future strength of our university.

Your commitment to DePaul makes this exciting next step in our history possible. Without your dedication and support, DePaul would not be what it is—the kind of institution that makes us a leader in higher education and an attractive partner for important projects like these.

God bless you,

Rev. Dennis Holtschneider, C.M.
President

Quote from: kryza on May 16, 2013, 01:39:42 PM
Funding will come from ticket sales....

DePaul has fans that buy tickets?!?

Quote from: jmayer1 on May 16, 2013, 03:12:00 PM
DePaul has fans that buy tickets?!?

He was talking about Marquette fans.


"We expect we can complete this project without affecting tuition."  I would certainly hope so.

Quote from: kryza on May 16, 2013, 01:39:42 PM
Funding will come from...naming rights...

What do you think it'd cost to name the arena the "Real Chili Warrior Dome"?

We should dip into the endowment for Marquette University Arena

Quote from: Victor McCormick on May 16, 2013, 03:50:36 PM
We should dip into the endowment for Marquette University Arena

Are you crazy? I don't want MUs good name associated with DePauls brand if basketball without a 20 point margin of victory...

Quote from: Victor McCormick on May 16, 2013, 03:50:36 PM
We should dip into the endowment for Marquette University Arena

It will likely be the McGrath ... whatever.

I think the casino is going to happen as well in the lobby of the hotel next door.

One more location from Pot. Hope that can hold off the  Kenosha casino or they will be hurting.

The arena is good news for the NBE overall.

Ok I disagree with this decision as I believe they should've jumped at the United Center arrangement and play the cupcake games at the Ray Meyer Center. In 1981 when Depaul was on top they averaged 15,410 which now days would put them at no13 in national attendance (ahead of us). They are working off of the idea that Depaul can get back to that level so from that perspective it's a good decision. Depaul still is the flagship of Chicago college basketball from an attendance perspective so it makes some sense to try to help them get better and be more attractive. 

http://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archives/2013/08/01/meigs-field-iithe-city-council-very-quietly-passes-mayor-rahms-depaul-basketball-arena-deal

Stadium also got stuck in the back of the state budget with the crest of the pork projects.

To be honest, I'm pleased that of all the tax dollars I've given to the City of Chicago, some of it will go to a pork project Ill actually use at least once a year.

Quote from: SaintPaulWarrior on August 01, 2013, 11:13:57 AM
http://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archives/2013/08/01/meigs-field-iithe-city-council-very-quietly-passes-mayor-rahms-depaul-basketball-arena-deal

Nice Hoopin