Disclaimer: I read the boards a lot to get thoughts from individuals who follow Marquette Basketball closer than most. I don't post often and this post is not one that is "loaded." I am looking for everyone's honest opinion, as I am completely lost.
Marquette's ability to crack the top 10 this year seems to be a bit unique. With a record of 2-3 against current top 25 teams it appears our success this year has been based off the lack of success from other top 25 teams, not our own. I understand that the argument can be made that we have played more consistent than other top 25 teams, and have not stumbled like others have. However, it seems that in previous years teams moved up in the rankings be beating other top 25 teams, not having all the other teams around them lose.
So this is my question... are we a true top 10 team, or are we simply a team that has reaped the benefits of others misfortune? If you want to argue both points I understand that as well. I look forward to all of you shedding some light on this topic and helping me figure it out.
I think when you get past the top 6 teams or so, it's so muddled it doesn't even really matter. What we've accomplished this year, when compared to the other teams ranked 7-15, is certainly favorable, so yes, I think we've earned our top ten ranking.
Yes, Marquette is a top 10 team. The 3 losses against top 25 teams were all on the road plus MU also beat Wisco on the road. They're 24-6 with the 23rd toughest schedule and have gone 13-4 in one of the marquee conferences in the country. They have 10 "quality wins" and 0 "bad losses." That's the resume of a top 10 team.
I think that's a good question. I think about the teams we've had over the past 3-6 years and I'm not certain this is our most talented team, as a whole, when you remove guys like Otule and at this point, Gardner, since he's been gone and the pessimist in me says he won't return to being a difference maker.
With our lack of size, and our penchant to get down double digits in most games, regardless of opponent .. plus losing to all 3 of the top 4 Big East teams (besides us) .. albeit all on the road. Feels like we're more of a top 20 team .. "like usual" ..
Regardess of the loss I believe this is a team that can win national championship. This team is for real.
Yes. With Gardner, even at just 10 min/game? Definitely yes.
Last night? No.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 01, 2012, 09:08:43 AM
Marquette's ability to crack the top 10 this year seems to be a bit unique. With a record of 2-3 against current top 25 teams it appears our success this year has been based off the lack of success from other top 25 teams, not our own. I understand that the argument can be made that we have played more consistent than other top 25 teams, and have not stumbled like others have. However, it seems that in previous years teams moved up in the rankings be beating other top 25 teams, not having all the other teams around them lose.
Isn't that how any team would move up in the ranking, by having teams in front of them lose while they win? If every team in front of us wins every week it would be difficult to move up significantly. This is a top 10 team, look at the polls that what they say. Why the inferiority? Do you think duke or NC questions if they are truly a top 10 team year in and year out?
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 01, 2012, 09:08:43 AM
Disclaimer: I read the boards a lot to get thoughts from individuals who follow Marquette Basketball closer than most. I don't post often and this post is not one that is "loaded." I am looking for everyone's honest opinion, as I am completely lost.
Marquette's ability to crack the top 10 this year seems to be a bit unique. With a record of 2-3 against current top 25 teams it appears our success this year has been based off the lack of success from other top 25 teams, not our own. I understand that the argument can be made that we have played more consistent than other top 25 teams, and have not stumbled like others have. However, it seems that in previous years teams moved up in the rankings be beating other top 25 teams, not having all the other teams around them lose.
So this is my question... are we a true top 10 team, or are we simply a team that has reaped the benefits of others misfortune? If you want to argue both points I understand that as well. I look forward to all of you shedding some light on this topic and helping me figure it out.
Yes.
Quote from: PVMagic on March 01, 2012, 09:24:29 AM
Yes. With Gardner, even at just 10 min/game? Definitely yes.
Last night? No.
This. In terms of what we have done with the schedule, we are right around Top 10 (maybe Top 12 or so).
In terms of what we COULD do, I really believe we are limited without Gardner at least playing 10 minutes a game. We are not a Top 10 team without a legit 4-5 coming off the bench (no disrespect to Jones or Anderson, but neither is a 4 or 5).
Unless we get some really favorable matchups in the tourney, we are not getting to the Elite Eight or better without Gardner.
Yes, it's already March. And yes, it's still too early to tell how good we really are.
I'm just hoping that two weeks from Sunday, we'll be able to say we're a top-16 team.
And a week after that, crowing that we're a top-four team!
In terms of true ability, I think we are a bit overrated right now. Top 15 is probably about right. We have a lower ceiling due to not having a post presence (I am considering Gardner out for the year until proven otherwise). Of course, that doesn't mean we can't still make a run in the tournament.
We win last night this isn't even a thread...
Quote from: Warriors10 on March 01, 2012, 10:54:36 AM
We win last night this isn't even a thread...
I think it can still be a thread - with who we are missing due to injuries, tough to say top 10 team. With those guys, not a doubt this year. Hopefully others can continue to keep stepping up. Looking forward to the tournament(s)!
If you watch the game at Cincy, at ND, and vs Vandy, hell no.
If you watch any other game, I would say yes...
I say yes, but we are also capable of looking like a team that shouldn't even be ranked. If we were gonna lose one of these last 3 I had no doubt the game at Cincy would be the one. Senior night, and our second time playing them made it the toughest game of the bunch
We're now 3-2 when ranked in the top 10 this year - I'd say we're better off around #12.
Quote from: kira67 on March 01, 2012, 11:00:56 AM
If you watch the game at Cincy, at ND, and vs Vandy, hell no.
If you watch any other game, I would say yes...
That's actually where I have trouble. What game would you point to as proof that we are a top 10 worthy team? Probably winning at Wisconsin? We still have no wins against anyone currently in the RPI top 20.
I think we are. I think we around the 9th or 10th best team in the country. We didn't play like it last night. I avoided the board last night, as I usually do after a loss, but we played a very hungry team. They were not going to be denied on their senior night while scratching and clawing their way into the NCAA field.
Win on Saturday, and I am pretty certain we'll be ranked 9th or 10th next week. But, at this point, rankings don't really matter. This could have been the wake up call they desperately needed. We could also really use The Ox back...
Quote from: hairyworthen on March 01, 2012, 09:26:02 AM
Isn't that how any team would move up in the ranking, by having teams in front of them lose while they win? If every team in front of us wins every week it would be difficult to move up significantly. This is a top 10 team, look at the polls that what they say. Why the inferiority? Do you think duke or NC questions if they are truly a top 10 team year in and year out?
I know people will get bad that i even bring this team up... but when i look at a team like Indiana, they moved up the rankings b/c they beat 3 top 10 teams, Now they also lost to teams like Minnesota and Nebraska. But my point is that they are only ranked where they are b/c they beat quality teams.
Marquette has done the same thing in beating Wisc, and Louisville. But when we cracked the top 10 it was because other top 10 teams lost, not because we knocked off Cuse and Gtown.
Quote from: frozena pizza on March 01, 2012, 11:21:23 AM
That's actually where I have trouble. What game would you point to as proof that we are a top 10 worthy team? Probably winning at Wisconsin? We still have no wins against anyone currently in the RPI top 20.
Wisconsin is #19 according to ESPN. So we're 1-2 vs. the top 20, and all three have been on the road.
There are 6 teams that, to me, have clearly defined themselves as better than us.
Kentucky, Syracuse, North Carolina, Duke, Michigan State, Kansas
After that, we'e in a group of maybe 7-10 teams that are really hard to tell apart. Whether or not we're in the top 4 of that group depends on how we're playing any particular day.
Quote from: frozena pizza on March 01, 2012, 11:21:23 AM
That's actually where I have trouble. What game would you point to as proof that we are a top 10 worthy team? Probably winning at Wisconsin? We still have no wins against anyone currently in the RPI top 20.
Madison, the Louisville game, second half of Syracuse game, and the first half of the Georgetown game are proof of our capabilities. The thing is the Big East is down. There are 5 teams ranked out of 18 teams, compare that to last year where there were probably 7 or 8. We played Georgetown and Cuse with our first 2 games and didn't have a game against a ranked opponent again til Louisville which was reeling at the time. This team is good when Jae and DJO score in bunches. We do not have a third option. If Todd, Jamil or Vander steps up we are absolutely a top 10 team with Gardner.
Last night Jamil, Vander, and Todd didn't have their best nights and Junior was absolutely pathetic. When that happens we look like crap.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on March 01, 2012, 11:25:43 AM
Wisconsin is #19 according to ESPN. So we're 1-2 vs. the top 20, and all three have been on the road.
I use RealTime RPI which has Wisc at #24 but whatever.
Not sure how impressive the win over Louisville is given that they were without their top scorer and lost to Providence by 31 just 6 days earlier.
Quote from: jhags15 on March 01, 2012, 11:29:43 AM
The thing is the Big East is down.
I have heard that alot this year (mainly from co-workers that are big WI fans) but in reality I think college BBall is down overall this year. This was supposed to be the bog year with kids staying in school with the looming NBA lockout. The Badgers are probably one of Bo's worse teams this year but are still ranked, folks talk about the Big 10 being such a strong conference but other than MI State none of those teams really look to intimidating this year compared to previous years.
All this makes me think it's great timing for Marquette to have such a strong team in an otherwise off year for college hoops.
Quote from: PVMagic on March 01, 2012, 09:24:29 AM
Yes. With Gardner, even at just 10 min/game? Definitely yes.
Last night? No.
How can you say that? We've earned that top 10 ranking without Gardner in the line-up.
Quote from: Homebrew101 on March 01, 2012, 11:58:05 AMThe Badgers are probably one of Bo's worse teams this year but are still ranked, folks talk about the Big 10 being such a strong conference but other than MI State none of those teams really look to intimidating this year compared to previous years.
The only thing intimidating about WI (and the Big Ten in general) is that watching their games could literally bore one to death.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 01, 2012, 12:18:36 PM
How can you say that? We've earned that top 10 ranking without Garner in the line-up.
Well, I said yes. I think we are borderline top 10 (7-15 range) without him. But we are more versatile with him and as last night proved more vulnerable without. As an example, I don't think a healthy Gardner wins the game for us last night, but I think his presence down low changes the way UC has to play us, and wouldn't allow Jackson to leap all over swatting shots.
Quote from: Warriors10 on March 01, 2012, 10:54:36 AM
We win last night this isn't even a thread...
Interesting how it goes from "Could MU be a 1-seed?" to "Is MU a top 10 team?" in a matter of hours.
I think this team is reverting to the mean...by that I mean I think they are in all reality a #12-15 ranked team (3 or 4 seed), with the possibility of swinging to the high single digits and high teens depending on the date of their most recent loss.
This is us coming back towards the center. I don't expect the pendulum swing to go too much farther though.
I
Quote from: Victor McCormick on March 01, 2012, 12:22:50 PM
I think this team is reverting to the mean...by that I mean I think they are in all reality a #12-15 ranked team (3 or 4 seed), with the possibility of swinging to the high single digits and high teens depending on the date of their most recent loss.
+1
I agree, I think MU is an 8-15 ranked team in reality, which i would take any year! The warriors lost last night, we just need to regroup and roll through march. No biggie.
When Crowder and DJO are shooting well and the other players are playing hard we are a top 10 team. When Ctowwder and DJO are not playing well or the effort is not there from everybody we are not even a top 25 team. This team cannot just show up and beat a ranked team.