http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/sports/ncaafootball/temple-in-talks-to-join-big-east-in-all-sports.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/sports/ncaafootball/temple-in-talks-to-join-big-east-in-all-sports.html)
The Big East is in discussions to add Temple for all sports as early as the next school year, according to someone briefed on the talks. Temple belongs to the Mid-American Conference and the Atlantic 10 in various sports and there are legal issues that have to be dealt with before the Owls would be able to leave. A resolution is expected this month.
excellent news...
A lot of speculation that Louisville is going to leave for B12 though.
Great addition for the conference. Though I wouldn't want to go to a road game, particularly at night.
18-team basketball conference
Providence
Connecticut
St. John's
Seton Hall
Rutgers
Villanova
Temple
Georgetown
USF
UCF
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Notre Dame
DePaul
Houston
SMU
and of course, Marquette
Trying to think how scheduling would work. 18-game conference season gives you everyone once plus one mirror. 20-game conference season gives you everyone once plus three mirrors. Splitting to divisions with home-and-homes on two year cycles plus two "crossover" games would give you a 18 game conference season....
I'm all for adding temple, if you remove one of those other teams.
Temple would be a great addition. Glad they're considering returning, since they were sent packing. I believe this would get us to a conference championship game in football, and reinforces our standing as a top-level basketball conference, even with the upcoming defections.
Really want to keep UL, though.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 22, 2012, 12:43:14 PM
A lot of speculation that Louisville is going to leave for B12 though.
If Temple is here as Louisville's replacement, and not as a move to keep Louisville in the conference, that's evidence enough for me that attrition by the football schools is never going to stop, and a basketball conference needs to be formed, considering Pitino was the most public lobbyist for Memphis and Temple and Louisville still bolts. The football schools will always jump to greener pastures, so why shouldn't we?
What's next? Marshall and East Carolina to replace Rutgers and UConn if they jump for the ACC? Forget it. At some point, I'd trade a hollowed out "Big East" name, for a robust basketball league.
Assuming ND needs to keep its bowl tie-ins somewhere and doesn't join, grab a combo of Dayton, Xavier, Butler, SLU, Creighton, take our basketball and our rosary beads and make out for it on our own.
A "Big North" of MU, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, SLU/CreightonCan't tell me that in a larger field, that that league wouldn't grab 4-5 bids a year.
If you say it's mid-major, take a look around. If Louisville or UConn bolt, the remaining Big East football/basketball schools are already a mid-major at best league for hoops (USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Temple, Rutgers, Cincinnati).
Say it's a step back, just remember we're not the ones doing the walking right now. It's not a step back when everyone else is running away from you, and the alternative is Conference USA NASCAR Division 2.0.
I do not think Louisville is leaving. They lobbied hard to get Memphis and Temple in. Right now I think the Big 12 is trying to lure certain ACC teams. That of course might get the revolving door going again. However, if Big 12 gets ACC teams they do not need Louisville and academically Louisville does not fit in ACC. I think we need one more basketball team to get to 19. That way we have an 18 game schedule with no mirror games. I would vote to have San Diego St also join in basketball.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on February 22, 2012, 01:12:19 PM
If Temple is here as Louisville's replacement, and not as a move to keep Louisville in the conference, that's evidence enough for me that attrition by the football schools is never going to stop, and a basketball conference needs to be formed.
What's next? Marshall and East Carolina to replace Rutgers and UConn if they jump for the ACC? Forget it. At some point, I'd trade a hollowed out "Big East" name, for a robust basketball league.
Assuming ND needs to keep its bowl tie-ins somewhere and doesn't join, grab a combo of Dayton, Xavier, Butler, SLU, Creighton, take our basketball and our rosary beads and make out for it on our own.
A "Big North" of MU, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, SLU/Creighton
Can't tell me that in a larger field, that that league wouldn't grab 4-5 bids a year. If you say it's mid-major, take a look around. If Louisville or UConn bolt, the Big East is already turning into a mid-major league. Say it's a step back, whatever. It's not a step back when everyone else is running away from you, and the alternative is Conference USA NASCAR Division 2.0.
I don't know about you, but I'm annoyed by all of this because each move seems to be driven solely by selfishness and no one is watching out for the best interests of everyone else. Now, if we created the conference you suggest, the following conferences would be affected negatively: Big East, Horizon, A10, CUSA, & Missouri Valley. That's a lot of people pissed off at the new conference. Consider that in your analysis.
Problem number two I have is ensuring that Georgetown and Villanova would go along with it, because without them the league wouldn't work.
Quote from: bilsu on February 22, 2012, 01:32:31 PM
I do not think Louisville is leaving. They lobbied hard to get Memphis and Temple in. Right now I think the Big 12 is trying to lure certain ACC teams. That of course might get the revolving door going again. However, if Big 12 gets ACC teams they do not need Louisville and academically Louisville does not fit in ACC. I think we need one more basketball team to get to 19. That way we have an 18 game schedule with no mirror games. I would vote to have San Diego St also join in basketball.
If your gonna add sd state for basketball, just got for gonzaga and st. marys, keep the catholic conference alive
Quote from: TJ on February 22, 2012, 01:33:27 PM
I don't know about you, but I'm annoyed by all of this because each move seems to be driven solely by selfishness and no one is watching out for the best interests of everyone else. Now, if we created the conference you suggest, the following conferences would be affected negatively: Big East, Horizon, A10, CUSA, & Missouri Valley. That's a lot of people pissed off at the new conference. Consider that in your analysis.
Problem number two I have is ensuring that Georgetown and Villanova would go along with it, because without them the league wouldn't work.
A valid point, but the fact of the matter is if you don't make a move, someone else will, and I'd rather have the Horizon League be mad at the new league than end up in the Horizon League because they're the only port in a storm.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on February 22, 2012, 01:12:19 PM
If Temple is here as Louisville's replacement, and not as a move to keep Louisville in the conference, that's evidence enough for me that attrition by the football schools is never going to stop, and a basketball conference needs to be formed.
What's next? Marshall and East Carolina to replace Rutgers and UConn if they jump for the ACC? Forget it. At some point, I'd trade a hollowed out "Big East" name, for a robust basketball league.
Assuming ND needs to keep its bowl tie-ins somewhere and doesn't join, grab a combo of Dayton, Xavier, Butler, SLU, Creighton, take our basketball and our rosary beads and make out for it on our own.
A "Big North" of MU, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, SLU/Creighton
Can't tell me that in a larger field, that that league wouldn't grab 4-5 bids a year.
If you say it's mid-major, take a look around. If Louisville or UConn bolt, the remaining Big East football/basketball schools are already a mid-major at best league for hoops (USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Temple, Rutgers, Cincinnati).
Say it's a step back, just remember we're not the ones doing the walking right now. It's not a step back when everyone else is running away from you, and the alternative is Conference USA NASCAR Division 2.0.
The TV contract would be a pretty big step down in your "Big North" scenario. Those are all smaller private schools with smaller alumni bases in mostly mid-tier cities without much national branding that don't get the backing of the common fan like major state schools. We'd be lucky if it was even 60% of our current deal.
We're one of the few premier Catholic basketball schools out there, there is no need to rush in to a hoops only league. If it ever comes, we'll be on the invite.
Until then you hang on as long as you can with UConn, Louisville & ND because they give instant creditability.
Sounds like a done deal. This article also reference spreparing for the loss of Louisville:
http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/34946571 (http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/34946571)
I could live with the 18 team conference. Personally would prefer the 18 game schedule with one mirror. I find a three division format in which you'd play home-and-home with five teams and 8 of the remaining 12 to be appealing, and you could even hang a "Division Champions" banner to gloat on your biggest rivals, but to be honest I'd rather play Nova and Georgetown every year even if it means playing SMU and UCF every year than only play them 2/3 years.
Quote from: The Lens on February 22, 2012, 01:44:19 PM
We're one of the few premier Catholic basketball schools out there, there is no need to rush in to a hoops only league. If it ever comes, we'll be on the invite.
Until then you hang on as long as you can with UConn, Louisville & ND because they give instant creditability.
Agree. The "act now" talk is foolish. We won't gain anything to lose by playing wait and see that won't be available to us later.
Also, since this is for 2012, looks like next season's schedule will still be 18 games with three home-and-homes. Could have seen four home-and-homes otherwise with WVU leaving.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on February 22, 2012, 02:06:56 PM
Sounds like a done deal. This article also reference spreparing for the loss of Louisville:
http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/34946571 (http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/34946571)
Yes, but the UL loss wouldn't be imminent. My guess is Syracuse and Pitt are gone for sure after next year.
So all this talk that Nova would veto Temples entry was just that, talk.
Quote from: bilsu on February 22, 2012, 01:32:31 PM
I do not think Louisville is leaving. They lobbied hard to get Memphis and Temple in. Right now I think the Big 12 is trying to lure certain ACC teams. That of course might get the revolving door going again. However, if Big 12 gets ACC teams they do not need Louisville and academically Louisville does not fit in ACC. I think we need one more basketball team to get to 19. That way we have an 18 game schedule with no mirror games. I would vote to have San Diego St also join in basketball.
Pitino lobbied hard. If the Big 12 offers, Louisville will leave.
Quote from: Jamailman on February 22, 2012, 01:41:33 PM
The TV contract would be a pretty big step down in your "Big North" scenario. Those are all smaller private schools with smaller alumni bases in mostly mid-tier cities without much national branding that don't get the backing of the common fan like major state schools. We'd be lucky if it was even 60% of our current deal.
As a fan, I don't even care about the money but you are right. Just looking at that conference, we would be lucky to get 3 nationally televised games all year (if you include UW). ESPN could care less about that conference.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on February 22, 2012, 02:56:05 PM
Pitino lobbied hard. If the Big 12 offers, Louisville will leave.
In the quotes I saw of Pitno where he said the Big East should get Memphis and Temple, he also made a point at least on one occasion to say that it was his opinion. Not necessarily Louisville's opinion.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on February 22, 2012, 03:04:46 PM
As a fan, I don't even care about the money but you are right. Just looking at that conference, we would be lucky to get 3 nationally televised games all year (if you include UW). ESPN could care less about that conference.
I imagine once Louisville jumps to the Big 12, I would say we get a similar number of nationally televised games. We had six Nationally televised (Not ESPNU, ESPN3, BEN, etc.) games this year in conference (Cincinnati, Villanova, Louisville, West Virginia, Notre Dame, UConn). One of those teams has already left the conference, and it's not difficult to imagine a scenario where Louisville (to B12), UConn (to ACC), and ND (for bowl tie-ins), leave to go somewhere else as well.
I'm all for hanging with Louisville, UConn, ND, etc. because other posters are right, those programs give more eyeballs with the network execs, and the basketball league option will always be there. However, if one or more of them leave, there's less and less reason to stay associated with the football-first schools at the bottom of the Big East Basketball ladder.
ESPN may not race to the basketball conference, but they won't exactly be lining up to televise Memphis vs. SMU or Temple vs. Cincinnati games in the new Big East either.
Quote from: Abode4life on February 22, 2012, 03:14:24 PM
In the quotes I saw of Pitno where he said the Big East should get Memphis and Temple, he also made a point at least on one occasion to say that it was his opinion. Not necessarily Louisville's opinion.
Exactly...Pitino is a short-timer anyway. Conference affiliation is a long-term decision in comparison.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on February 22, 2012, 03:15:52 PM
I'm all for hanging with Louisville, UConn, ND, etc. because other posters are right, those programs give more eyeballs with the network execs, and the basketball league option will always be there. However, if one or more of them leave, there's less and less reason to stay associated with the football-first schools at the bottom of the Big East Basketball ladder.
ESPN may not race to the basketball conference, but they won't exactly be lining up to televise Memphis vs. SMU or Temple vs. Cincinnati games in the new Big East either.
Agreed, I actually like the conference and think it has decent upside (the Cincy, Memphis, Ville, Houston bloc could be powerful). However, if either Louisville or UConn leave (as they are the only 2 "brand" programs left) it doesn't seem worth it to muddy the conference w/ teams that share no similarity w/ the basketball-onlies and will always be looking to the next step up for football.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on February 22, 2012, 03:15:52 PM
I imagine once Louisville jumps to the Big 12, I would say we get a similar number of nationally televised games. We had six Nationally televised (Not ESPNU, ESPN3, BEN, etc.) games this year in conference (Cincinnati, Villanova, Louisville, West Virginia, Notre Dame, UConn). One of those teams has already left the conference, and it's not difficult to imagine a scenario where Louisville (to B12), UConn (to ACC), and ND (for bowl tie-ins), leave to go somewhere else as well.
I'm all for hanging with Louisville, UConn, ND, etc. because other posters are right, those programs give more eyeballs with the network execs, and the basketball league option will always be there. However, if one or more of them leave, there's less and less reason to stay associated with the football-first schools at the bottom of the Big East Basketball ladder.
ESPN may not race to the basketball conference, but they won't exactly be lining up to televise Memphis vs. SMU or Temple vs. Cincinnati games in the new Big East either.
ESPN will race to televise these games as long as the Big East is a BCS conference. Once you become a non-BCS conference its like you were killed and left the sports world. To see how important a BCS league is, look at the party Memphis had to join a BCS league. Look at how hard Xavier tries to not be labeled at a BCS league.
What is funny is the threads on the Big East private's message boards about getting out, while the thread for every other basketball playing school is five times as long as ours about getting in to the Big-East or any other BCS league. Everyone thinks the grass is always greener on the other side. We need to accept that we are in the position that every school in a non-BCS league wants to be in.
Quote from: Jamailman on February 22, 2012, 01:41:33 PM
The TV contract would be a pretty big step down in your "Big North" scenario. Those are all smaller private schools with smaller alumni bases in mostly mid-tier cities without much national branding that don't get the backing of the common fan like major state schools. We'd be lucky if it was even 60% of our current deal.
Would it really? Correct me if I'm wrong, but its not like the TV contract is even that big to begin with. Something like $1-2 million per basketball-only school. I have a hard time believing a conference of Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Xavier, Notre Dame (until they decide to lose their independent status they are with us), Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, St. Louis, Creighton, etc., couldn't command around that.
Who's bringing in the money for basketball? Outside of the bball-onlies its Louisville and UConn. I don't buy that the schools w/ football (i.e., Cincy, Memphis, Temple) are the make-or-break reasons we get a good TV contract.
Quote from: Warrior1 on February 22, 2012, 03:30:05 PM
ESPN will race to televise these games as long as the Big East is a BCS conference. Once you become a non-BCS conference its like you were killed and left the sports world. To see how important a BCS league is, look at the party Memphis had to join a BCS league. Look at how hard Xavier tries to not be labeled at a BCS league.
What is funny is the threads on the Big East private's message boards about getting out, while the thread for every other basketball playing school is five times as long as ours about getting in to the Big-East or any other BCS league. Everyone thinks the grass is always greener on the other side. We need to accept that we are in the position that every school in a non-BCS league wants to be in.
Agreed, but the BCS label may be gone relatively soon (2014).
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 22, 2012, 03:17:01 PM
Exactly...Pitino is a short-timer anyway. Conference affiliation is a long-term decision in comparison.
Oh come on, hasn't there been enough jokes about Pitino's episode on this board ;D
Overall, I'm happy about Temple. I think they will be solid in both football and basketball.
According to CBS' Brett McMurphy, Temple to the Big East in all sports in 2012 is virtually a done deal. 8-)
http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/34946571
I forgot to mention earlier. The new Marquette AD spoke at the UConn pre-game reception. I didn't think he had anything new that wasn't already said but I'll paraphrase some of his remarks that may seem telling. (Soemone can correct if they heard differently.)
* He said he was playing golf for the first time 2 days prior and he had to end his game due to a realignment related phone call from Father Pilarz. (Temple?)
* Asked about adding football, he said if there was anyone willing to donate $250mil they would. He jokenly said Father Pilarz would still probably prefer to spend the money on something else.
* Asked about a basketball only conference, he said that could be an option in the future, but that football is what is driving TV revenue growth and it was in Marquette's interest to be affiliated with football revenue generating schools (something savily stated along those lines).
* When asked, said it was SEC jealousy of the PAC-12 TV contract that kicked off the latest round of realignment. The SEC had a new TV contract, but the fact that the PAC-12 contract signed soon after theirs was so much larger made them feel compelled to act. The only option they had to renegoitiate a new TV deal was to expand membership.