Started to think about who is or had a better senior year.
Jimmy Butler
Lazar Hayward
Wes Mathews
Jae Crowder
I am coming to the conclusion that Jae Crowder really has come on. Wes and Jimmy really played a wing so hard to compare, so it is between
Lazar and Jae. I believe Jae has a little more game. Puts to ball on the floor to go to the hoop better, is stronger uderneath, very consistent.
His shot may not be as good as Lazar but compared to last year, he has really improved. I like that he comes to play every night, he had a dog
at Notre Dame, and lost. Both DJO and Jae were stopped at ND, those seniors will be missed next year! I think Jae makes the pros on some team.
I'll answer it this way BC. I'll bet Jae has improved as a basketball player more in 4 years (from HS Senior to now) that just about any player in MU history.
I love Jae (my favorite player on this team) but got to give it to Lazer. Lazer's final year was the feel good story of a life time. The only remaining member of what was the best 4 players to play together for 3 years probably in MU history. Left with a team of limited talent and an unproven coach. Picked to finish 12th in the BE. He willed that team to a top teir finish and a 6th seed.
Matthews
JAE
Hayward
Butler
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 12, 2012, 08:40:18 AM
I love Jae (my favorite player on this team) but got to give it to Lazer. Lazer's final year was the feel good story of a life time. The only remaining member of what was the best 4 players to play together for 3 years probably in MU history. Left with a team of limited talent and an unproven coach. Picked to finish 12th in the BE. He willed that team to a top teir finish and a 6th seed.
Agree. Love, love, love Jae but he's got much more support in his teammates than Lazar did his senior year. Butler wasn't quite JFB his junior year, and while Mo and David played their hearts out and were great for us, DJO, Mayo, Blue, J Wilson, Gardner when he was healthy....Jae can shine more because he has a little more support to spread the work to (or before I get nitpicked, to whom to spread the work).
For all around game, including intensity and impact to the team.
I think Jae gets the nod.
Lazar
Wes
Jae
Butler
Hayward was so important to that team.
1. Hayward (more support than you give credit for - Jr Butler, So DJO, Sr Ack, Sr Cubi, Jr Buycks, solid, but not near what the other 3 guys have)
2. Butler
3. Crowder
4. Matthews
Any list where Wes' senior season ranks fourth is a very good list. Four outstanding senior seasons. Hardest deciosn for me was which to put at 2, Butler or Crowder.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 13, 2012, 08:46:25 AM
1. Hayward (more support than you give credit for - Jr Butler, So DJO, Sr Ack, Sr Cubi, Jr Buycks, solid, but not near what the other 3 guys have)
I don't disagree that Lazar had good teammates who outperformed by far the expectations. Soph DJO is not Sr DJO though. Blue, J Wilson, Cadougan >>>> than Sr Ack, Sr Cubi, Jr Buycks.
The fact Jae stands out among so many standouts says something to be sure, but the team dynamic is way different for him than it was for Lazar.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 12, 2012, 08:40:18 AM
I love Jae (my favorite player on this team) but got to give it to Lazer. Lazer's final year was the feel good story of a life time. The only remaining member of what was the best 4 players to play together for 3 years probably in MU history. Left with a team of limited talent and an unproven coach. Picked to finish 12th in the BE. He willed that team to a top teir finish and a 6th seed.
I'll have to take slight issue with the remark "left with a team of limited talent."
That team had another future NBA first-round pick (Jimmy Butler) and another guy (DJO) who has a good shot of making money playing the game. And, despite his physical limitations, Acker was far more solid than people give him credit for (shot 49.5 percent from three and had a 3-to-1 Asst/TO ratio his senior year).
Zar. Hands down.
He had comparable numbers to Wes Johnson, who was the Big East POY. Zar 18+ ppg, 7.5 rebs, 2 steals. Wes 16.5, 8.5, 2. Both had like 1.5 assists. SU ended up doing way less than what was expected of them; MU way more.
This was playing as the center at 6'5" on a down-tempo team. For rebounds, Johnson had Onuaku and Rick Jackson to clear guys out when he went to get rebounds. Zar pretty much had to be a one-man wrecking crew.
By far, he was the heart and soul of that team. And you can say after-the-fact that guys ended up being better than anyone thought. But that team had way less to work with than any of Buzz's other teams. That was the 'margin for error is zero' team. That has not been Buzz's mantra for any of his other teams.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 12, 2012, 08:40:18 AM
I love Jae (my favorite player on this team) but got to give it to Lazer. Lazer's final year was the feel good story of a life time. The only remaining member of what was the best 4 players to play together for 3 years probably in MU history. Left with a team of limited talent and an unproven coach. Picked to finish 12th in the BE. He willed that team to a top teir finish and a 6th seed.
I think from 1975-76 to 1977-78 Bo Ellis, Jerome Whitehead, Bernard Toone, and Butch Lee played together.
Quote from: PBRme on February 13, 2012, 01:54:50 PM
I think from 1975-76 to 1977-78 Bo Ellis, Jerome Whitehead, Bernard Toone, and Butch Lee played together.
Ellis used up his eligibility in '77. He was in the '74 NCAA Championship Game as a freshman and again as a senior. Whitehead came to MU as a sophomore, in Lee's class and Toone was a class behind, matriculating at MU the same year as Whitehead.
As good as Zar was he stepped over the inbounds line while trying to pass the ball in against Missouri and the next year he threw up a quick 3 pointer with about a minute to go against Washington. No guaratnee we would have won otherwise, but he had two key bad plays in those two close NCAA tournament losses.
Doesn't it also matter who they played with, what the options were? Lazar was the guy as a senior. Wes had to share the ball with two other seniors.
Wes and Zar played when the Big East was at the very top of college basketball (according to Jay Bilas :P )
Quote from: Hoopaloop on February 13, 2012, 03:35:16 PM
Doesn't it also matter who they played with, what the options were? Lazar was the guy as a senior. Wes had to share the ball with two other seniors.
Wes and Zar played when the Big East was at the very top of college basketball (according to Jay Bilas :P )
And sending 11 teams to the tournament last year including the national champion doesn't count as being at the very top of college basketball? Last year's BEast was the best or second best it's been since we joined. What's your point? It doesn't appear that you have one.
Certainly you can look at NBA results. Wes was not drafted, but has been very successful. Part of not being drafted was he was playing with other highly regarding players at MU and therefore went unnoticed. Butler and Hayward were the 30th picks. One has done nothing in two years and the other appears to be doing okay. Matthews destroyed MU's season free throw made record as a senior and that is what makes him the best player. I would have liked to have seen Butler try to take over games more. He too often deferred to others, when he was the bst player on the team.
My gut is:
1. Lazar
2. Jae
3. Butler
4. Wes
But it really is a close call. I have not been as endeared to Jae as the others and my initial reaction was to place him at the bottom, but he really has a great season, especially since Big East play started. Defensively, he gets caught gambling a bit much for my liking, but he is solid. Lazar, however, was a man's man his senior year. As others stated, he almost single handedly willed the team on. Great leadership too, something I don't really see as developed in Jae (not saying he's not a leader, just not as solid of one as Zar).
Lazar
Butler
Jae
Wes
Lazar carried his team. When he graduated we had no idea who could replace him.
Jimmy came in and did a very good job playing Lazar's role, but he could never be Lazar.
Jae has a supporting cast that can carry the team, along with two serviceable 5s for the start of the year. The jury is still out on him.
Wes was unbelievable, but defenses still keyed on Jerel a lot of games. Tough to give the nod to a guy with a supporting cast like he had, plus he wasn't forced to play the 5 spot like the other guys were.
Lazar
Butler
Wes
Jae
This is really hard
Lazar
Jae
Butler
Matthews