it just occurred to me that many of you may not have had the backup CBS sports station to switch to once the national telecast went to Florida-Vandy, but two nice things happened at the end if you missed them.
1st - Notre Dame got the ball with 46 seconds left and actually dribbled the shot clock out to take the 35-second violation rather than try to add to the lead. Maybe that happens more than I remember, but it seems to me teams will usually try to score until they are under 35 seconds - anyway, thought it was a nice touch with us obviously whipped.
2nd - Greg Anthony's comments in the final two minutes included the fact that even after this loss he views Marquette as one of the most underrated team in the country at #15 in the polls. Wow, didn't expect that. he then added something pretty close to, "I really don't believe today was a matter of Marquette playing a bad game, I just believe Notre Dame would have beaten anyone in the country today."
I may have been the only idiot still watching in the final minute, but both of these were a little bit of balm.
Let's go get DePaul.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on February 04, 2012, 06:13:23 PM
1st - Notre Dame got the ball with 46 seconds left and actually dribbled the shot clock out to take the 35-second violation rather than try to add to the lead. Maybe that happens more than I remember, but it seems to me teams will usually try to score until they are under 35 seconds - anyway, thought it was a nice touch with us obviously whipped.
I had never seen this before. It was odd.
More odd was that MU got the ball with 12 seconds left, and also dribbled it out.
Clearly, lots of winning teams use up the entire 35 seconds, but I've NEVER seen a losing team quit like that.
Not to mention .. scoring under 59 makes you look like a Big 10 team
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 04, 2012, 06:30:24 PM
More odd was that MU got the ball with 12 seconds left, and also dribbled it out.
Clearly, lots of winning teams use up the entire 35 seconds, but I've NEVER seen a losing team quit like that.
Not to mention .. scoring under 59 makes you look like a Big 10 team
Brey told his guys to dribble the clock out, Buzz noticed and told Mayo to do the same. Nice gesture by both coaches if you ask me.
As much as I hate ND, Brey is doing a great job there. Good win for them, doesnt really affect us terribly in the big picture. Probably still top 20 on monday and if nothing else should refocus the group heading into the last month of conf play.
I would have been fine with ND attempting to score considering the shot clock was still on.
I've never seen a team do that. Talk about the complete opposite of Fab Melo.
Personally I don't like a team taking a shot clock violation rather than trying to score. Where does it stop? When there is 1 minute left? When you're up by 20? I think taking the violation is over thinking it.
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on February 04, 2012, 06:13:23 PM
1st - Notre Dame got the ball with 46 seconds left and actually dribbled the shot clock out to take the 35-second violation rather than try to add to the lead. Maybe that happens more than I remember, but it seems to me teams will usually try to score until they are under 35 seconds - anyway, thought it was a nice touch with us obviously whipped.
Mentioned that in the game thread...really classy gesture, and you saw that we then dribbled it out too even while losing.
Maybe we should have tried to steal the ball and lay it in, like that scumbag Victor Rudd from USF?
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 04, 2012, 07:11:59 PM
Personally I don't like a team taking a shot clock violation rather than trying to score. Where does it stop? When there is 1 minute left? When you're up by 20? I think taking the violation is over thinking it.
i'm thinking you're over-thinking that teams are over-thinking when dribbling out a shot clock at the end of blow-out.
I was at the game and saw buzz with about a minute in the game tell his players not to foul. Brey heard that
Nice gesture by both coaches. Would not have blamed ND for trying to score before the clock went off.
Agree, I thought it was a nice touch, and admittedly hoped we'd crack 60, but that was fair.
I tried to say this nicely in my Cracked Sidewalks wrap-up, but Brey is clearly the BE Coach of the Year.
Sorry Rocky, I didn't get that far down in the game thread so didn't mean to repeat.
On a happier note, Nick Williams is tearing up Alabama in Tuscaloosa through a half. Before the game MS is predicted to finish at No. 65 in the RPI, but a road win against a team currently forecast to finish No. 29 would give them a shot at the top 50 and make our 30-point win on a neutral court look even better.
As if a guy in Auburn needs any extra incentive to root against Alabama!
Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 04, 2012, 06:48:35 PM
I would have been fine with ND attempting to score considering the shot clock was still on.
I've never seen a team do that. Talk about the complete opposite of Fab Melo.
or the douche from UNC that dunked with 2 seconds left today vs MD.
I just feel like taking a shot clock violation is akin to kneeling on fourth down in football. I just dont think that is any more sportsmanlike than doing the minimum possible to keep the game going and end it. In football, its running to get a first down until you can kneel. In basketball, its taking a long jumper or whatever after 30 seconds of burn offense. I feel like stopping play just to avoid scoring actually highlights how bad youre putting it on a team, rather than acting to lay off.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 05, 2012, 01:33:19 AM
I just feel like taking a shot clock violation is akin to kneeling on fourth down in football. I just dont think that is any more sportsmanlike than doing the minimum possible to keep the game going and end it. In football, its running to get a first down until you can kneel. In basketball, its taking a long jumper or whatever after 30 seconds of burn offense. I feel like stopping play just to avoid scoring actually highlights how bad youre putting it on a team, rather than acting to lay off.
I would say it's more like kicking a field goal on 4th down inside field goal range if you can't run the clock to 0:00. Oftentimes you will see a team run the ball on 4th down in field goal range in that situation rather than kicking the field goal, which does happen fairly often (considering the number of times the situation comes up), essentially doing the same thing as taking a shot clock violation while not kneeling it. They're just trying not to score, whether they get a turnover on downs or first down and then run the clock out after that. In both situations teams are attempting not to run up the score.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 04, 2012, 06:30:24 PM
More odd was that MU got the ball with 12 seconds left, and also dribbled it out.
Clearly, lots of winning teams use up the entire 35 seconds, but I've NEVER seen a losing team quit like that.
Not to mention .. scoring under 59 makes you look like a Big 10 team
What Brey did was classy, and I said so to the fellow Marquetters with me at the time.
What Buzz did was not at all unprecedented; I've seen it many times. It's hardly "quitting." What Buzz did all game yesterday was the opposite of quitting. He burned all his timeouts in a desperate attempt to stem the ND tide. This time it didn't work.
I didn't say MU quit with 5 minutes left, while they were taking timeouts.
I've seen a ton of college basketball. I can't recall ever watching a losing team quit trying to score with 10+ seconds left. Perhaps you can provide another example?
I have no examples. I don't memorize endings of blowout basketball games. I just know I've seen it before.
The term "quit" has such a negative connotation. I hardly think holding the ball with 10 seconds left in a 17-point game -- after the opponent just took a 35-second violation in a display of good sportsmanship -- constitutes "quitting."
I've seen teams stop fouling when down only 7 with 20 seconds to go, when a few missed FTs and a couple of quick 3-pointers could make things tight. Something like that is much closer to the definition of quitting, though even that I prefer to call simply bad coaching because quitting is such a heinous thing to do in sports.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 05, 2012, 08:58:08 AM
I didn't say MU quit with 5 minutes left, while they were taking timeouts.
I've seen a ton of college basketball. I can't recall ever watching a losing team quit trying to score with 10+ seconds left. Perhaps you can provide another example?
Seriously?? Stupid question.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 05, 2012, 08:58:08 AM
I didn't say MU quit with 5 minutes left, while they were taking timeouts.
I've seen a ton of college basketball. I can't recall ever watching a losing team quit trying to score with 10+ seconds left. Perhaps you can provide another example?
St. John's did it yesterday versus Cuse. They dribbled it out with about 20 seconds left. It happens all the time.
:o Wow, so over thinking this. Really quite simple: In any game with a running clock, like hockey and basketball, one minute left is a final psychological marker in a game. (In Pro Football it would be the Two Minute warning). If the game is close, and by close I mean POSSIBLE in some way, one minute left means desperation time: foul like crazy, press, jack up threes, etc. The clock running down by tenths only adds to the "urgency" feel of "one minute left."
If the game is honestly out of reach as Buzz obviously saw yesterday, one minute means call off the dogs. If Marq was no longer going to foul, then why would Brey continue to pile on?
Classy move by both coaches. The demarcation point here is one minute. There is no slippery slope here. No coach is going to dribble out shot clock violations at two, three or more minutes left.
although not a fan of ND, I really like Brey. He's classy enough to make Bo Ryan look like Latrell Sprewell
First, I thought this funny:
Quote from: Warriors 79 on February 05, 2012, 11:27:47 AM
:o Wow, so over thinking this. Really quite simple: In any game with a running clock, like hockey and basketball, one minute left is a final psychological marker in a game. (In Pro Football it would be the Two Minute warning).
Second, if we've learned anything from this, its that point dependent bets (with/vs spread, under/over, etc) in basketball games are totally stupid.