OK, anyone know if he is a go tonight? Enlund, got anything?
he finished the game....he should be in.
He finished the game because he was loose and didn't have time to swell. Knee injuries actually swell the most 12-24 hours after they occur. If he was on crutches yesterday and "walking gingerly" as reported here, I really doubt he plays.
Wouldn't rule him out for Saturday though.
Of course, speed and vertical leaping are not his strengths to begin with, so maybe he can just go out there on the offense end on a crutch, take an entry pass and score on one leg. ;D
Quote from: nyg on January 31, 2012, 08:00:17 AM
OK, anyone know if he is a go tonight? Enlund, got anything?
I don't know for sure but using logic, he is either not playing or will get limited minutes. Given the fact that despite numerous inquiries, the athletic department is not commenting tells me a lot.
I think the goal of the coach is not to give the other team too much info as to who and what to prepare for. Everyone can admit that our offense looks much, much different with Gardner on the floor than without him on the floor. These are essentially two different offensive "looks" that Seton Hall must prepare for when Gardner is able to play. If he isn't able to play, then they have a simpler task.
Essentially, if he was o.k., I think they would just answer the query that he is playing.
If he is not playing, they can either admit it or say nothing. Admitting it makes the game easier to prepare for, therefore they are saying nothing.
Logic, unfortunately, leads me to the conclusion that he is probably unable to play.
Ok, let me make this clear. Buzz said in his post game show after Nova that Davante "would be fine". We don't even know for sure that davante is hobbling. How do we know the credibility of the poster that posted it?? Do any of you even know/remember how many "I saw so and so on campus in a boot today", comments their have been on these boards over the years, only to find out they weren't anywhere close to being true?? I remember several.
Why are people even speculating on such nonsense?? NO ONE has any reason to believe at all, that he's even hurt, do they?? Buzz certainly didn't allude to it, and to the poster that said IWB said that he hyperextended it, where did IWB say this?? Certainly not on his twitter or anywhere else for that matter.
Just stop with all the ridiculous speculation people.IF davante was truly hurt or there was even a question to his availability tonight, Enlund would have mentioned it in his pre game write up.
Its absolutely inexcuseable how so many want to make mountains out of molehills here.
He was on crutches yesterday. Confirmed by multiple people with eyes. Davante himself referenced a knee issue on Twitter. And, of course, we all saw the play and him laying on the court after it.
I agree that there is no reason to panic and that statements as to whether he will play tonight are largely conjecture. But there is plenty of empirical evidence that Big Smoove is dealing with a knee injury sustained at the end of the Villanova game that worsened since Saturday. Without a definitive diagnosis (or acknowledgement from the program), it's impossible to know what, if any, impact it will have on his availability tonight and going forward.
However, it's likely not zero.
I rather have him rest today and have him for the tougher game on saturday. I know there are no "easy games" in the BEast...but i think an extra few days rest will go a long way.
Wow, get worked up about it.......
I propose a new rule for scoop that says all topics must be approved by muguru before they are posted.....
All in favor....
Quote from: muguru on January 31, 2012, 08:47:56 AM
Its absolutely inexcuseable how so many want to make mountains out of molehills here.
Who's making a mountain out of a molehill? I am simply guessing based on eyewitness reports from yesterday. I hope I'm wrong. If not, we'll be fine. Just another thing to deal with.
Don't know if I want to start this debate again, but wouldn't it be nice if MU's beat writer, Tom Enlund, perhaps gave an update to the situation.
Even if Tom doesn't have any new information to share, he could at least post that he is looking into Gardner's status. Does Tom even know that Davante hurt his knee?
Quote from: muguru on January 31, 2012, 08:47:56 AM
Its absolutely inexcuseable how so many want to make mountains out of molehills here.
ABSOLUTELY INEXCUSEABLE
+2 lol!
How many posters actually saw DG on crutches? One or more than one?
Quote from: mugoose on January 31, 2012, 08:31:17 AM
he finished the game....he should be in.
Gardner did not finish the game on Saturday. After the timeout to fix the net he returned to the game while visibly hobbling and flexing the knee. After MU's two failed attempts to get the ball inbounds, he left the game and did not return the rest of the way. Maybe he did not return because MU was on defense the rest of the game (not counting the quick intentional fouls by Nova) or because he couldn't move well.
Apparently we aren't going to know more about Gardner's status before tipoff.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 31, 2012, 09:08:16 AM
Don't know if I want to start this debate again, but wouldn't it be nice if MU's beat writer, Tom Enlund, perhaps gave an update to the situation.
Even if Tom doesn't have any new information to share, he could at least post that he is looking into Gardner's status. Does Tom even know that Davante hurt his knee?
Tom is probably doing his job and asking but nobody in the program is saying anything apparently. There is probably a gag order about his condition. A guy named Mark Strottman posted this on the other board,
"For those wondering, I asked someone in the program who would know for an update and the response was, "No update."
My gut says he sits tomorrow night."
It seems no one in the program is saying anything about his condition to anyone. There is no upside in it if it is highly likely that he doesn't play or plays limited minutes.
There is no definitive answer to whether he will play. For what it's worth Junior said Davante was day-to-day and was going to be a game time decision.
You happy guru?
Scoopers, I owe you an apology. IWB has a new basketball website.
I was forwarded a link in which IWB discusses DG's knee. I referenced him. Then I had a crisis of conscience about posting a link from somebody else's premium (for pay) board. So I did not post the link. I still won't. However, what he says is consistent with the poster who saw DG on crutches.
I think there is a better public source than IWB and Enlund on this matter. Since that source hasn't updated their blog as of this morning, I would suspect that nobody is in the know right now - including perhaps the coaching staff - and unless we hear something before lunch, it's a going to be a game-time decision.
Quote from: pux90mex on January 31, 2012, 09:30:54 AM
There is no definitive answer to whether he will play. For what it's worth Junior said Davante was day-to-day and was going to be a game time decision.
For anything involving a knee, this would be the best news I've heard. Even if the decision,
tonight, is no-go.
Quote from: MULS1999 on January 31, 2012, 09:00:36 AM
He was on crutches yesterday. Confirmed by multiple people with eyes. Davante himself referenced a knee issue on Twitter. And, of course, we all saw the play and him laying on the court after it.
I agree that there is no reason to panic and that statements as to whether he will play tonight are largely conjecture. But there is plenty of empirical evidence that Big Smoove is dealing with a knee injury sustained at the end of the Villanova game that worsened since Saturday. Without a definitive diagnosis (or acknowledgement from the program), it's impossible to know what, if any, impact it will have on his availability tonight and going forward.
However, it's likely not zero.
"Several people with eyes" have also seen multiple MU players over the years in "boots", only it turns out they weren't actually in a boot, or...it was only a precaution and they were fine to play the next game. That's all I'm saying.
Quote from: downtown85 on January 31, 2012, 08:41:09 AM
I don't know for sure but using logic, he is either not playing or will get limited minutes. Given the fact that despite numerous inquiries, the athletic department is not commenting tells me a lot.
I think the goal of the coach is not to give the other team too much info as to who and what to prepare for. Everyone can admit that our offense looks much, much different with Gardner on the floor than without him on the floor. These are essentially two different offensive "looks" that Seton Hall must prepare for when Gardner is able to play. If he isn't able to play, then they have a simpler task.
Essentially, if he was o.k., I think they would just answer the query that he is playing.
If he is not playing, they can either admit it or say nothing. Admitting it makes the game easier to prepare for, therefore they are saying nothing.
Logic, unfortunately, leads me to the conclusion that he is probably unable to play.
But what if our administration knows that is also the logic that Seton Hall's staff will use and it's a double bluff?
(http://suddenarborealstop.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/vizzini.jpg)
But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Quote from: RawdogDX on January 31, 2012, 09:47:16 AM
But what if our administration knows that is also the logic that Seton Hall's staff will use and it's a double bluff?
That's what I get for trying to post from a Blackberry....
Quote from: downtown85 on January 31, 2012, 09:30:14 AM
Tom is probably doing his job and asking but nobody in the program is saying anything apparently. There is probably a gag order about his condition. A guy named Mark Strottman posted this on the other board,
"For those wondering, I asked someone in the program who would know for an update and the response was, "No update."
My gut says he sits tomorrow night."
It seems no one in the program is saying anything about his condition to anyone. There is no upside in it if it is highly likely that he doesn't play or plays limited minutes.
I realize that Tom may not be receiving any info from MU, but I think he can at least share with his readers that he has made attempts to try to receive a report. A simple blog post stating, "I ask a member of the MU basketball staff about the status of Davante following an apparent knee injury against Villanova, and was told no update", would suffice.
My issue is not that Tom doesn't have any information regarding the injury, its that he doesn't seem to be trying to gain any. Look, everybody saw Davante go down at the end of the game on Saturday, you would think that MU's beat writer would follow-up on that story before the team's next game.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 31, 2012, 10:02:42 AM
I realize that Tom may not be receiving any info from MU, but I think he can at least share with his readers that he has made attempts to try to receive a report. A simple blog post stating, "I ask a member of the MU basketball staff about the status of Davante following an apparent knee injury against Villanova, and was told no update", would suffice.
My issue is not that Tom doesn't have any information regarding the injury, its that he doesn't seem to be trying to gain any. Look, everybody saw Davante go down at the end of game on Saturday, you would think that MU's beat writer would follow-up on that story before the team's next game.
Agree.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 31, 2012, 10:02:42 AM
I realize that Tom may not be receiving any info from MU, but I think he can at least share with his readers that he has made attempts to try to receive a report. A simple blog post stating, "I ask a member of the MU basketball staff about the status of Davante following an apparent knee injury against Villanova, and was told no update", would suffice.
My issue is not that Tom doesn't have any information regarding the injury, its that he doesn't seem to be trying to gain any. Look, everybody saw Davante go down at the end of game on Saturday, you would think that MU's beat writer would follow-up on that story before the team's next game.
+1. We're not looking for anything earth-shattering, just an update even if that entails no news (as odd as that sounds). This reminds me of my daily trips on the Blue Line in Chicago. The train always slows down at certain points for no evident reason and at times it's infuriating. I would be far less upset if there was a simple explanation on a placard even if I didn't agree with it. I just need something--some acknowledgement of an issue.
Thanks for the "Princess Bride" quote, litehouse84. One of the great family movies of all time.
So based on all this info, the only logical conclusion is DG must have an ACL issue and Buzz has got to get comfortable with the options to do right by Davante.
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2012, 09:35:46 AM
Scoopers, I owe you an apology. IWB has a new basketball website.
http://www.brewcityball.com/homepage.php
I was forwarded a link in which IWB discusses DG's knee. I referenced him. Then I had a crisis of conscience about posting a link from somebody else's premium (for pay) board. So I did not post the link. I still won't. However, what he says is consistent with the poster who saw DG on crutches.
I kinda wish I had a subscription so I could read about Indiana HS QB Kiel committing to LSU. I didn't know he could do that while enrolled at ND. ::)
Quote from: RJax55 on January 31, 2012, 10:02:42 AM
I realize that Tom may not be receiving any info from MU, but I think he can at least share with his readers that he has made attempts to try to receive a report. A simple blog post stating, "I ask a member of the MU basketball staff about the status of Davante following an apparent knee injury against Villanova, and was told no update", would suffice.
My issue is not that Tom doesn't have any information regarding the injury, its that he doesn't seem to be trying to gain any. Look, everybody saw Davante go down at the end of the game on Saturday, you would think that MU's beat writer would follow-up on that story before the team's next game.
That is why I started this thread by asking the question and maybe getting an answer on the gameday. When the 15th ranked program in the country, which has already lost it's starting center and the backup has apparently suffered some sort of injury, you would figure some beat writer/sports media person in the Milwaukee area would have some updated information.
Everyone may be looking forward to the Notre Dame game on Saturday, but the Seton Hall game is sort of important and Gardner's status will be a determining factor.
Maybe before tip off we will hear something.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 31, 2012, 10:02:42 AM
I realize that Tom may not be receiving any info from MU, but I think he can at least share with his readers that he has made attempts to try to receive a report. A simple blog post stating, "I ask a member of the MU basketball staff about the status of Davante following an apparent knee injury against Villanova, and was told no update", would suffice.
My issue is not that Tom doesn't have any information regarding the injury, its that he doesn't seem to be trying to gain any. Look, everybody saw Davante go down at the end of the game on Saturday, you would think that MU's beat writer would follow-up on that story before the team's next game.
Why does it matter and why do we feel entitled that we need answers when we want them? Does Buzz need to hold a press conference on a daily basis discussing the various ailments of all the players and coaches for that matter? When the news comes out, it will come out. Hopefully it will be good news.
And since when has any injury information from MU been made immediately clear. Anderson was suppossed to miss a few weeks and he missed a game. Fulce was career ending and he continued to play. Nobody knew about McNeal until gametime. And the list goes on and on. Again, I think when MU wants to share information, they will.
Also, what good is a blog posting stating I don't know. Will that really make everyone feel better about the situation? Because we don't have a blog posting stating I don't know, we are to assume that Tom is not doing his due dilegence. I don't know, but it seems like with all this technology, us fans now expect up to the second status updates on everything and when we don't get them, we have to gripe about it.
Quote from: mufanatic on January 31, 2012, 11:06:13 AM
Why does it matter and why do we feel entitled that we need answers when we want them?
Depends on who you think is the tail and who you think is the dog I suppose.
Quote from: LittleMurs on January 31, 2012, 10:47:03 AM
I kinda wish I had a subscription so I could read about Indiana HS QB Kiel committing to LSU. I didn't know he could do that while enrolled at ND. ::)
I also enjoy the 1980s-ish font on the header.
Tom Enlund is a "compiler" - his articles are simply of compilation of everything "out there." This is not to say he is a bad journalist. Rather it reflects of the reality of the newspaper business which has not figured out what to do as it loses money in an electronic world.
Tom, who is limited by corporate constraints, has a next to impossible job since Warrior basketball has been down-graded to save money.
That said, all of us are anxious to hear the status of Davante "The Ox is a Fox" Gardner.
We need a student to step up to the plate and commit to some citizen journalism. I'm sure an undergrad scooper has seen him over the last couple of days. All we're asking is that you introduce yourself, express your concern, and ask what what the hell is going on.
Better yet, just storm into the Al McGuire Center, screaming with arms flailing, and demand answers. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
I don't think Buzz gives a rats ass what we think. SH knows he may have been injured. Why should MU confirm or deny anything. Make SH game plan for MU with Gardner and w/o Gardner. Take any edge you can get.
Quote from: windyplayer on January 31, 2012, 12:10:37 PM
We need a student to step up to the plate and commit to some citizen journalism. I'm sure an undergrad scooper has seen him over the last couple of days. All we're asking is that you introduce yourself, express your concern, and ask what what the hell is going on.
C'mon Paint Touches.....
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 31, 2012, 12:26:36 PM
I don't think Buzz gives a rats ass what we think. SH knows he may have been injured. Why should MU confirm or deny anything. Make SH game plan for MU with Gardner and w/o Gardner. Take any edge you can get.
I think we have a winner right here
Quote from: AZWarrior on January 31, 2012, 12:31:06 PM
C'mon Paint Touches.....
I have asked twice and both times the answer was that there was nothing to update at the moment. And, realistically, I have to believe Davante has been told not to release his injury information.
IF Davante sits tonight, it's an advantage for Marquette if Seton Hall has to gameplan for him only to see him not there.
It makes sense that nothing has been released on his injury. Marquette has nothing to gain by releasing it and, by not disclosing the extent of it, has an advantage. We'll all know in 6.5 hours and I will address it at the post-game press conference if nothing has been officially released.
But this is hardly anything against Enlund for not having a beat on it or the administration for not saying anything. There's a reason for everything that goes on.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 31, 2012, 12:26:36 PM
I don't think Buzz gives a rats ass what we think. SH knows he may have been injured. Why should MU confirm or deny anything. Make SH game plan for MU with Gardner and w/o Gardner. Take any edge you can get.
Wait, is this fact-based-logic, that leads to a perfectly reasonable conclusion?
Quote from: reinko on January 31, 2012, 12:42:17 PM
Wait, is this fact-based-logic, that leads to a perfectly reasonable conclusion?
No room for that here...
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 31, 2012, 12:26:36 PM
I don't think Buzz gives a rats ass what we think. SH knows he may have been injured. Why should MU confirm or deny anything. Make SH game plan for MU with Gardner and w/o Gardner. Take any edge you can get.
That's not the point that I and others are making. I realize there could be advantages for MU in not releasing that information and I understand if Buzz and co. decide not to it.
My frustration is due to the fact that MU's beat writer has failed to even acknowledge that this may be an issue. An injury that keeps Davante out for any period of time, I would deem to be newsworthy. So the fact that Enlund has not addressed it once since it occurred or even attempted to tell his audience that he is working on getting more information is concerning.
My issue has do with the coverage of MU basketball, not with MU basketball's disclosure of information.
Quote from: strotty on January 31, 2012, 12:37:19 PM
I have asked twice and both times the answer was that there was nothing to update at the moment. And, realistically, I have to believe Davante has been told not to release his injury information. IF Davante sits tonight, it's an advantage for Marquette if Seton Hall has to gameplan for him only to see him not there.
It makes sense that nothing has been released on his injury. Marquette has nothing to gain by releasing it and, by not disclosing the extent of it, has an advantage. We'll all know in 6.5 hours and I will address it at the post-game press conference if nothing has been officially released.
So I take it you are "Paint Touches". You do great work!! And you chose a great name. ;D
But this is hardly anything against Enlund for not having a beat on it or the administration for not saying anything. There's a reason for everything that goes on.
Quote from: strotty on January 31, 2012, 12:37:19 PM
I have asked twice and both times the answer was that there was nothing to update at the moment. And, realistically, I have to believe Davante has been told not to release his injury information. IF Davante sits tonight, it's an advantage for Marquette if Seton Hall has to gameplan for him only to see him not there.
Thanks for the info and effort. Also, your Otule article was nicely done.
Quote from: AZWarrior on January 31, 2012, 12:59:33 PMSo I take it you are "Paint Touches". You do great work!! And you chose a great name. Grin
Says so right on the sidebar of their website. :D
If you're all looking for wild speculation on Gardner's status, might I recommend the article we put up on Anonymous Eagle today?
http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2012/1/31/2759537/hey-whats-up-with-davante-gardner-marquette-golden-eagles
Quote from: BenCat12 on January 31, 2012, 09:04:19 AM
Wow, get worked up about it.......
I propose a new rule for scoop that says all topics must be approved by muguru before they are posted.....
All in favor....
If sarcasm gets posted in teal, perhaps we can appease some on this board by creating a color for posts based on speculation or from non-credentialed sources?
So if I'm the Seton Hall coach, do I prepare for the "Beast of the Big East"? or some combination of faster slimmer forwards?
Actually heard a rumor that Davante will not play but MU found a very efficient way to sneak Wade into his jersey for the game tonight.
No clue, how this can possibly play out. But thats what I heard. Personally, it seems like a reasonable trade off.
Quote from: strotty on January 31, 2012, 12:37:19 PM
Marquette has nothing to gain by releasing it...
Apparently you're discounting the benefit of satisfying people on message boards who need information NOW!!!!11!!1
FWIW, and I'll try to put this as articulately as possible, I think there's a huge chasm between saying that Buzz has no obligation to care what we want/think and saying that he needs to give us the most recent updates to the detriment of the team. Somewhere in between those two extremes are the actual obligations and how this and most injury news, etc, will come down.
For this game, there is no doubt an advantage to playing coy with Davante's status, since the injury is so fresh. That being said, Buzz will have more info for us after tonight. And to some extent, that's his obligation. The alumni and fanbase put a ton of money into the program, and there needs to be a mutually dependent and communicative relationship there.
Quote from: strotty on January 31, 2012, 12:37:19 PM
But this is hardly anything against Enlund for not having a beat on it...
Nice try, but we're going to hold you to a higher standard.
If we know that you know, you better know that we won't stand for you not letting us know. But you already know this.
Get Well Soon Automatic.
"The alumni and fanbase put a ton of money into the program, and there needs to be a mutually dependent and communicative relationship there."
Really - you are a fan who buys a ticket to the game and donates to the program.
What exactly is the mutually dependent and communicative relationship here?
You bought season tickets, Marquette tells you the date, time and opponent of each game - what more are you exactly owed?
Holy entitlement complex...
Quote from: madtownwarrior on January 31, 2012, 03:48:40 PM
"The alumni and fanbase put a ton of money into the program, and there needs to be a mutually dependent and communicative relationship there."
Really - your a fan who buys a ticket to the game and donates to the program.
What exactly is the mutually dependent communicative relationship here?
You bought season tickets, Marquette tells you the date, time and opponent of each game - what more are you exactly owed?
Holy entitlement complex...
+1. Oakland is looking for a few more good leeches.
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2012, 10:15:44 AM
Thanks for the "Princess Bride" quote, litehouse84. One of the great family movies of all time.
+1, I would say the best live-action family movie of all time.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 31, 2012, 12:47:59 PM
That's not the point that I and others are making. I realize there could be advantages for MU in not releasing that information and I understand if Buzz and co. decide not to it.
My frustration is due to the fact that MU's beat writer has failed to even acknowledge that this may be an issue. An injury that keeps Davante out for any period of time, I would deem to be newsworthy. So the fact that Enlund has not addressed it once since it occurred or even attempted to tell his audience that he is working on getting more information is concerning.
My issue has do with the coverage of MU basketball, not with MU basketball's disclosure of information.
This is my point too. If I were an MU fan who didn't happen to see the end of the game on TV Saturday, and who relied on the Journal Sentinel for information, I would have no idea that Gardner might be hurt. The only mention of it in the JS brushed it off by saying he remained in the game and that it was "no big deal" because of how hard MU works and fights in practice. I think that not mentioning that Gardner might be hurt is very poor reporting. All it would take is a brief mention that MU has not provided any information on how Gardner's knee responded after the fall on Saturday and that we won't know until gametime if he will be able to play tonight. That provides no information to the opponent but helps to keep fans somewhat informed.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on January 31, 2012, 03:48:40 PM
"The alumni and fanbase put a ton of money into the program, and there needs to be a mutually dependent and communicative relationship there."
Really - you are a fan who buys a ticket to the game and donates to the program.
What exactly is the mutually dependent and communicative relationship here?
You bought season tickets, Marquette tells you the date, time and opponent of each game - what more are you exactly owed?
Holy entitlement complex...
Thought thats how that would get taken, which I'll be the first to admit, arguably means how it should be taken. But I stand by it, especially with the way the rest of my post read / doesn't jive with your kneejerk reaction.
I think that "a mutually dependent and communicative relationship" is actually the perfect way to put it. There's almost a community organizing element to being the head coach of a major college program. There's a shared identity there, and a mutually dependent relationship between the donors/alumni base and the program itself. Think of how much basketball supports the rest of the University, which pays Buzz like a pro coach. (Note that none of this is claiming that Buzz doesn't do a great job/isn't a great representative of the University, etc. This was never a critique, but instead a philosophical point about how college sports operates).
I said earlier that "it depends on who you think is the tail and who is the dog." I don't think it makes someone entitled to recognize that if fans treated their college sports fandom identically to their pro sports fandom, college sports wouldn't be where it is today. And much of that is derived from an interaction between program and fan that doesn't exist in pro sports (in addition to the experience of having gone to a given college/university)
Quote from: ZiggysChestHair on January 31, 2012, 01:21:03 PM
If sarcasm gets posted in teal, perhaps we can appease some on this board by creating a color for posts based on speculation or from non-credentialed sources?
We already have that. The color is black ...
Quote from: MUMac on February 01, 2012, 07:48:32 AM
We already have that. The color is black ...
OK, I laughed...or at least a guy I know says that I did.