http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=4/23/2007&id=22438
Somehow, this does not worry me.
Marquette Golden Eagles sophomore guard Dominic James will likely make himself eligible for the upcoming National Basketball Association draft, coach Tom Crean said on Monday night.
"The decision to declare will be very soon, and I would say from all accounts he's leaning in that direction," he said. "And I totally understand that and am very supportive of it. I feel we've done all the due diligence we need to do and now it's time to see where this process takes him."
The 5-foot-11 James is not expected to hire an agent, thus preserving his college eligibility should he not get the feedback he's looking for in the coming weeks. He said recently that he would remain in the draft only if he were to receive a guarantee he'd be selected in the first round.
James has until Sunday night to officially announce his intention to enter the draft and until June 18 to withdraw his name, should he choose to do so.
It seems like a good move to me. Test the waters, get some feedback, and then come back to Milwaukee and get ready for a huge, huge junior year. And hey, if he finds out some team wants to draft him in the mid-first round, I will wish him nothing but the best of luck in the next stage of his career. DJ is a good guy with a good head on his shoulders. He will make the right decision after the camps and Tom Crean will be there to help him along.
do you think he will get more PT than Novak and Diener?
Quote from: mviale on April 23, 2007, 11:03:47 PM
do you think he will get more PT than Novak and Diener?
That's the thing, if you want to go go but don't go just to ride the pine and disappear after 2 or 3 years. Right now I think he'd get more playing time than Novak does and if he does go and develops like many think his potential can be then he'll get plenty of playing time down the road but this isn't the NFL and you can't sit around and develop on a pro team for 2 years and expect to become an all-star...that's what the NBDL and Europe are for. Either way if he goes I wish him the best if not I'll be happy to have another 1st Team Big East 2 yr starter back to a top 25 team.
riding the pine or not, if he can get a guaranted deal its a great move for him...how long did it take you to earn 3-4 million$ after you got your degree? 3 million richer i dont care if i have to go back to school..which i would..and eventually play overseas somewhere..tooo much money to pass on
The one thing that concerns me is if during the camps, DJ hears he'll be drafted, even if it is 2nd round and would certainly make a roster for league Minimum.
That's $427k in year one, even if you do ride the pine. Chances are, he'd get a 2nd year. That's $711k. Presto. You're set for life, if you don't pimp your Escalade every year.
Eek out one more year for $829k. Nice minimum wage if you can get it.
http://www.insidehoops.com/minimum-nba-salary.shtml
So, sure, he could wait a year, double his income. But that non-doubled income is pretty sweet.
Quote from: DAtruth on April 24, 2007, 08:17:28 AM
riding the pine or not, if he can get a guaranted deal its a great move for him...how long did it take you to earn 3-4 million$ after you got your degree? 3 million richer i dont care if i have to go back to school..which i would..and eventually play overseas somewhere..tooo much money to pass on
So you're saying that DJ would be happy to be "role-player" or some "used to be" in Germany over being a contributor in the NBA? I don't think so, he seems pretty enthralled by his own press clippings. I'm not saying that money is the issue, he'll be set whenever he leaves but whether or not he becomes a solid player or not should be what weighs in on his decision and I don't think he'd be happy with being a PG in the Euro leagues.
How are you set for life on $700k?
Especially when you're providing for your family.
A lot of assumptions-- if he's drafted in the second round, he isn't guaranteed any money. He could be cut after training camp and the team that picked him doesn't owe him anything.
If he comes back to school and improves his shooting and decisionmaking, he could be a lottery pick.
Then he's closer to set for life.
Of course, he could come back and not improve his stock, but he wouldn't be worse off (or much worse off) than he likely is right now.
I think he'll go, stay in the draft, and get picked in the 2nd round.
If he shoots below 30% in the summer league, I think he will get cut.
Just my two cents, but it's a dangerous game to play unless you know for sure you're going in the top 15.
I agree, I don't think he'd be set for life. Sure, $700k is outstanding money, if you are living in a nice suburb, driving a Volvo and going to your summer home in Michigan for Memorial Day weekend.
This is the NBA though, and right or wrong, $700k doesn't mean as much. Having worked in an NBA front office, and heck, just being a fan, I can tell you that it is all about cred with these guys. Two years of $1 million is outstanding for everyone on this board (I'm guessing), but for 90% of NBA players, it's not going to get you far.
Yes. Set for life. My assumptions were 2nd round, and high chance he'd get a contract, and high chance he'd play at least 2 years. Two years is 427+711 = 1.14m.
Just eek out 8% returns on $1.14m, and you've got $91k per year to live off of. For a single guy? That's plenty of money for us "normal" people. (It's a good guess to assume the James family has probably been living on less their entire life.)
Even if you do bring taxes into the equation. Plenty of money to live better than about 85% of the US.
Now, sure, if you want a new Escalade every year, then maybe not. Cry me a river. Actually, on $91k/year, you could get a new one every year. Just not the million dollar mansion.
(Question: Anyone know where to look to find out how many 2nd rounders did NOT get on the roster? Seems like that always comes up, but both of MU's 2nd round pine riders got contracts. Maybe the last 10 guys are more in danger?)
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 09:08:24 AM
The one thing that concerns me is if during the camps, DJ hears he'll be drafted, even if it is 2nd round and would certainly make a roster for league Minimum.
That's $427k in year one, even if you do ride the pine. Chances are, he'd get a 2nd year. That's $711k. Presto. You're set for life, if you don't pimp your Escalade every year.
Eek out one more year for $829k. Nice minimum wage if you can get it.
http://www.insidehoops.com/minimum-nba-salary.shtml
So, sure, he could wait a year, double his income. But that non-doubled income is pretty sweet.
You also forgot about the royalty money that each player gets. It's in 6 figures EVERY YEAR. And you continue to collect it for years like a pension.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 10:46:08 AM
Yes. Set for life. My assumptions were 2nd round, and high chance he'd get a contract, and high chance he'd play at least 2 years. Two years is 427+711 = 1.14m.
Just eek out 8% returns on $1.14m, and you've got $91k per year to live off of. For a single guy? That's plenty of money for us "normal" people. (It's a good guess to assume the James family has probably been living on less their entire life.)
Even if you do bring taxes into the equation. Plenty of money to live better than about 85% of the US.
Now, sure, if you want a new Escalade every year, then maybe not. Cry me a river. Actually, on $91k/year, you could get a new one every year. Just not the million dollar mansion.
(Question: Anyone know where to look to find out how many 2nd rounders did NOT get on the roster? Seems like that always comes up, but both of MU's 2nd round pine riders got contracts. Maybe the last 10 guys are more in danger?)
Yes, he would be set for life if he doesn't pay taxes, his agent, have kids or buy a house.
Ah. I see. So all those people in the US making $91k/year don't have houses or kids? uh-huh.
I predict he will put his name in, get some experience, and then withdraw from the draft when he has to. This years draft is absolutely STOCKED, there are a ton of studs at every position. I think this years draft is arguably the best top to botton of this decade.....yes the top 6 in 2003 was the best top 6 but the overall draft class fell off after that. This years class looks to be just huge.
So even if DJ comes back for another year and doesn't improve, he is likely to have his stock improve next year simply because there won't be as much talent there as this year. I think its relatively safe to say with the way next years talent looks if he stays and returns to his freshmen year form he goes top 10 next year. Thats a change of 4 million dollars a year over going second round this year. Just makes too much sense for him to get experience in the draft process then come back for next year.
Hilltopper, I understand your point, and completely agree with you. I'm telling you though, having worked in the NBA and having worked with and talked to NBA players, they don't think that way. Believe it or not, a few of these guys not making mega contracts were living paycheck to paycheck because they couldn't handle the new amount of wealth coming in.
I have no insight into James, his background and anything like that, so he could be set on the league minimum. For about 10% of the league, this is fine, and they make an absolutely ideal living from it. You can have an outstanding career and lifestyle if you can play your way through the NBA off this. However, the mindest of 90% of players is all about their second contract. This is the contract that sets them, their kids, their kids' kids for life.
From where I sit, option A (league minimum for a few years and then out of the league with $1 million in the bank) or option B (mid 1st round rookie contract, decent player, $4 million in the bank, with chance to make $20 million in the next contract) both sound great to me. For a guy like DJ, this is where he has to decide what's best for him and his family.
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 24, 2007, 06:41:21 AM
you can't sit around and develop on a pro team for 2 years and expect to become an all-star...that's what the NBDL and Europe are for.
totally not true. perennial all-stars jermaine o'neal and t-mac both rode the pine for 2-3 years before breaking through. not the norm, but possible...
You don't get royalty or pension money after being drafted. You have to play for a number of years to qualify for that money, as far as I understand.
You have to pay taxes on your salary. If you're like DJ, you are also providing for your family, you will never have the full salary of the contract to earn your 8%.
You don't get a lump sum to invest at the outset of the contract.
My more general point is that DJ would be better-served by coming back to school and improving his game-- and his chances to get the bigger, guaranteed deals that come in the early first round. Then he will be set for life.
Dish: I do agree with you. There's no doubt there's the existence of two realities, that of normal humanity, and that of the über wealthy, where the idea of what is "comfortable" is in disagreement.
One tends to think that Novak and Diener still fit in around the family table pretty well, despite the fact they probably have a net worth double their family's.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
Ah. I see. So all those people in the US making $91k/year don't have houses or kids? uh-huh.
He won't be making 91K a year. Where are you getting that from? By adding up his two year pay and saying that's what he'll have in the bank?
If he has 100K in the bank after his first year I would be amazed. Are you still in school?
Lets say his take home pay after taxes and after his agent (10%?) and after his trainer and any other of the cost we don't know about that involve getting ready for the nba draft get added up his take home pay will probably be about half his salary. We'll say 215.
His mom lives in the ghetto i'm pretty sure he'll want to get her out of there, we'll say that's an additional cost of 30K.
185
He wants to buy a car... Pretty sure he wouldn't be happy with a saturn. we'll say 40K. I think that's being VERY modest
145
Oh, he hasn't even gotten a pad for him and mom yet. We'll assume he'll rent and puts 1,200 a month into it.
131
Plazma TV 2K
129
Some going out bling 5K
124
car for mom, 20
104
clothes, nba players have to get suited up and you know james will want to look good. 4k
100
we haven't coverd, clubbing expenses, girlfriend costs, vaction costs, food, his nintendo wii, a sound system for the plazma tv, furnature for where he's living, plain tickets for having some old highschool friends visit.
But never mind all that i'm sure you are correct and all 2nd round picks in the NBA have 1.4 mil in the bank after their 2nd season.
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 24, 2007, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
Ah. I see. So all those people in the US making $91k/year don't have houses or kids? uh-huh.
He won't be making 91K a year. Where are you getting that from? By adding up his two year pay and saying that's what he'll have in the bank?
If he has 100K in the bank after his first year I would be amazed. Are you still in school?
Lets say his take home pay after taxes and after his agent (10%?) and after his trainer and any other of the cost we don't know about that involve getting ready for the nba draft get added up his take home pay will probably be about half his salary. We'll say 215.
His mom lives in the ghetto i'm pretty sure he'll want to get her out of there, we'll say that's an additional cost of 30K.
185
He wants to buy a car... Pretty sure he wouldn't be happy with a saturn. we'll say 40K. I think that's being VERY modest
145
Oh, he hasn't even gotten a pad for him and mom yet. We'll assume he'll rent and puts 1,200 a month into it.
131
Plazma TV 2K
129
Some going out bling 5K
124
car for mom, 20
104
clothes, nba players have to get suited up and you know james will want to look good. 4k
100
we haven't coverd, clubbing expenses, girlfriend costs, vaction costs, food, his nintendo wii, a sound system for the plazma tv, furnature for where he's living, plain tickets for having some old highschool friends visit.
But never mind all that i'm sure you are correct and all 2nd round picks in the NBA have 1.4 mil in the bank after their 2nd season.
Dude, you have spent too much time watching MTV cribs.
Just because he is young doesn't mean he is going to need "ice" and plasma tv's everywhere.
Give the kid a break.
I understand that he will probably purchase some nice things because he will be making good money, but you spit out so many stereotypes there I can hardly type right now.
Maybe he will invest all of it... who the hell knows???
And does DJ's mom really live in the ghetto? I don't know if I have heard that before. It could be true, but I've just never heard that.
If you're going to spout about his possible salary don't forget that the NBA per diem is effing ridiculous. These guys don't even have to bring their own money on a road trip and if they don't blow it on drinking they can go home from every trip with anywhere from $800-$1500. Hell, bank that and let it sit gathering interest and you could pull another couple years off his time in the NBA.
It's a business as well as a talent.
And we all know how great of businessmen/investors pro athletes are...
Novak bought an 80K Mercedes. I'm sure DJ will buy one of those too.
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 24, 2007, 02:36:33 PM
And we all know how great of businessmen/investors pro athletes are...
I know I know...
but people are making a lot of assumptions about a college soph. and his lifestyle.
Give the kid a break. Maybe he will buy a bunch of expensive stuff... maybe he won't. I don't know because I don't know DJ. Maybe he will donate 1/2 of it to his church... who knows???
People make assumptions about people they don't even know because they watch MTV, or BET, or SPIKE TV, or whatever.
People make assumptions because of what they observe. It is not out of line to expect that a 19-20 year-old kid who comes from a poor background and suddenly has a lot of money thrown his way to not exactly think like Charles Schwab when it comes to investing. If 99% of NBA players didn't act like that when they received their first contracts, no one would make that assumption.
If DJ stays in the draft, I wish him luck. He's not talented or big enough to make an NBA roster right now. I don't blame him for testing the waters, but I hope for his sake, and Marquette's, that he comes back next year. Thankfully he is doing the smart thing and is not hiring an agent so he retains his eligibility.
With each player declaring, DJ's draft stock slips even further.
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 24, 2007, 02:36:33 PM
And we all know how great of businessmen/investors pro athletes are...
You can say that about any occupation. I know plenty of people who are successful in their "regular" jobs who are terrible with their business investments whether it be a restaurant, side business, etc.
On the flip side, there are fine examples of NBA players who have done well with their money in terms of investments (Grant Hill, Greg Anthony, Magic Johnson, etc.).
Can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm just surprised at how quick we are to eat our own kid.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on April 24, 2007, 10:48:02 AM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 09:08:24 AM
The one thing that concerns me is if during the camps, DJ hears he'll be drafted, even if it is 2nd round and would certainly make a roster for league Minimum.
That's $427k in year one, even if you do ride the pine. Chances are, he'd get a 2nd year. That's $711k. Presto. You're set for life, if you don't pimp your Escalade every year.
Eek out one more year for $829k. Nice minimum wage if you can get it.
http://www.insidehoops.com/minimum-nba-salary.shtml
So, sure, he could wait a year, double his income. But that non-doubled income is pretty sweet.
You also forgot about the royalty money that each player gets. It's in 6 figures EVERY YEAR. And you continue to collect it for years like a pension.
You need to explain this one a bit further....not saying you are wrong but in my dealings with the league and their players association and the Collective Bargaining Agreement I'm unaware of numbers to that level. That is a very high number that would surprise me if it true, but it might be.
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 24, 2007, 02:32:29 PM
If you're going to spout about his possible salary don't forget that the NBA per diem is effing ridiculous. These guys don't even have to bring their own money on a road trip and if they don't blow it on drinking they can go home from every trip with anywhere from $800-$1500. Hell, bank that and let it sit gathering interest and you could pull another couple years off his time in the NBA.
It's a business as well as a talent.
FYI...the Per Diem is $106 per day for an NBA player. It's high, but I know a lot of companies that give $75 for middle level managers and over $100 for executives.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2007, 06:35:36 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 24, 2007, 02:32:29 PM
If you're going to spout about his possible salary don't forget that the NBA per diem is effing ridiculous. These guys don't even have to bring their own money on a road trip and if they don't blow it on drinking they can go home from every trip with anywhere from $800-$1500. Hell, bank that and let it sit gathering interest and you could pull another couple years off his time in the NBA.
It's a business as well as a talent.
FYI...the Per Diem is $106 per day for an NBA player. It's high, but I know a lot of companies that give $75 for middle level managers and over $100 for executives.
And that comes to about $7,500 / year if you go on each trip. The Rocky Mtn News did a great story on this last month:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nba/article/0,2777,DRMN_23922_5427887,00.html
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 09:08:24 AM
The one thing that concerns me is if during the camps, DJ hears he'll be drafted, even if it is 2nd round and would certainly make a roster for league Minimum.
That's $427k in year one, even if you do ride the pine. Chances are, he'd get a 2nd year. That's $711k. Presto. You're set for life, if you don't pimp your Escalade every year.
If you think a few years at that salary and you are set for life then you best stay in college. Wow, you have no clue about the real world.
"A lot has changed in a year for Rockets rookie forward Steve Novak. He played last season for Mar- quette. "We got a $110 check every two weeks," he said. "That's about the same as we get in the NBA for one day." "
Exquezze me?
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on April 24, 2007, 06:47:28 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2007, 06:35:36 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 24, 2007, 02:32:29 PM
If you're going to spout about his possible salary don't forget that the NBA per diem is effing ridiculous. These guys don't even have to bring their own money on a road trip and if they don't blow it on drinking they can go home from every trip with anywhere from $800-$1500. Hell, bank that and let it sit gathering interest and you could pull another couple years off his time in the NBA.
It's a business as well as a talent.
FYI...the Per Diem is $106 per day for an NBA player. It's high, but I know a lot of companies that give $75 for middle level managers and over $100 for executives.
And that comes to about $7,500 / year if you go on each trip. The Rocky Mtn News did a great story on this last month:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nba/article/0,2777,DRMN_23922_5427887,00.html
Yes, all true. I guess I just don't see it as that crazy. For people that travel a ton, and there are many that do, that number isn't that far off from what many execs, etc make when they travel. I'd put an "exec" in the same genre as an athlete because there are so few of them and they are paid at the upper levels of the scale in benefits, salary and perks.
Quote from: MUEng92 on April 24, 2007, 08:33:18 PM
"A lot has changed in a year for Rockets rookie forward Steve Novak. He played last season for Mar- quette. "We got a $110 check every two weeks," he said. "That's about the same as we get in the NBA for one day." "
Exquezze me?
Stipend money and reimbursement money. Every athlete gets it. I used to laugh when I was a KU when the beginning of each month it was dolled out to the athletes....what a circus. It's all legit and in accordance with NCAA rules.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2007, 08:38:25 PM
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on April 24, 2007, 06:47:28 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2007, 06:35:36 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 24, 2007, 02:32:29 PM
If you're going to spout about his possible salary don't forget that the NBA per diem is effing ridiculous. These guys don't even have to bring their own money on a road trip and if they don't blow it on drinking they can go home from every trip with anywhere from $800-$1500. Hell, bank that and let it sit gathering interest and you could pull another couple years off his time in the NBA.
It's a business as well as a talent.
FYI...the Per Diem is $106 per day for an NBA player. It's high, but I know a lot of companies that give $75 for middle level managers and over $100 for executives.
And that comes to about $7,500 / year if you go on each trip. The Rocky Mtn News did a great story on this last month:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nba/article/0,2777,DRMN_23922_5427887,00.html
Yes, all true. I guess I just don't see it as that crazy. For people that travel a ton, and there are many that do, that number isn't that far off from what many execs, etc make when they travel. I'd put an "exec" in the same genre as an athlete because there are so few of them and they are paid at the upper levels of the scale in benefits, salary and perks.
I agree...$7,500 is nothing when you're talking about a career that guarantees retirement by 35.
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 24, 2007, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 24, 2007, 02:36:33 PM
And we all know how great of businessmen/investors pro athletes are...
You can say that about any occupation. I know plenty of people who are successful in their "regular" jobs who are terrible with their business investments whether it be a restaurant, side business, etc.
On the flip side, there are fine examples of NBA players who have done well with their money in terms of investments (Grant Hill, Greg Anthony, Magic Johnson, etc.).
Can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm just surprised at how quick we are to eat our own kid.
Couldn't agree with you more.
I know we have all seen the cliche NBA player with jewelry, pimped ride and an entourage the size of a small city... but to make any assumptions about how DJ will or will not invest his money is crazy.
Lots of players have invested well... we just see and hear about the ones who have wasted the most money, not those who have carved out a nice career playing and then coaching/scouting.
DJ's been a model student athlete and a good person from all credible reports... so why as soon as he has some money do we assume he will start trying to be a "baller" and blow $400,000 per year.
Sheesh.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on April 24, 2007, 08:52:58 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2007, 08:38:25 PM
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on April 24, 2007, 06:47:28 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2007, 06:35:36 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 24, 2007, 02:32:29 PM
If you're going to spout about his possible salary don't forget that the NBA per diem is effing ridiculous. These guys don't even have to bring their own money on a road trip and if they don't blow it on drinking they can go home from every trip with anywhere from $800-$1500. Hell, bank that and let it sit gathering interest and you could pull another couple years off his time in the NBA.
It's a business as well as a talent.
FYI...the Per Diem is $106 per day for an NBA player. It's high, but I know a lot of companies that give $75 for middle level managers and over $100 for executives.
And that comes to about $7,500 / year if you go on each trip. The Rocky Mtn News did a great story on this last month:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nba/article/0,2777,DRMN_23922_5427887,00.html
Yes, all true. I guess I just don't see it as that crazy. For people that travel a ton, and there are many that do, that number isn't that far off from what many execs, etc make when they travel. I'd put an "exec" in the same genre as an athlete because there are so few of them and they are paid at the upper levels of the scale in benefits, salary and perks.
I agree...$7,500 is nothing when you're talking about a career that guarantees retirement by 35.
I didn't mean to infer that the per diem would pay for their child's prep school. I've read about higher per diems but clearly I misread if they are all set at $106. I'm just thinking along the lines that you take that money and spend and, ideally, "save" around $7,500 that almost becomes "free" money in a sense. Take that, put in the bank, and sit back.
Quote from: 79Warrior on April 24, 2007, 07:53:42 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 09:08:24 AM
The one thing that concerns me is if during the camps, DJ hears he'll be drafted, even if it is 2nd round and would certainly make a roster for league Minimum.
That's $427k in year one, even if you do ride the pine. Chances are, he'd get a 2nd year. That's (edit: another) $711k. Presto. You're set for life, if you don't pimp your Escalade every year.
If you think a few years at that salary and you are set for life then you best stay in college. Wow, you have no clue about the real world.
I don't? No clue? Please explain how a pre-tax annuity of $91k per year (for life) wouldn't enable you to live pretty comfortably in the US .. seeing as $88k (also pre-tax) puts you in the upper quartile of income in the US (and that's WITH working 2080 hours/year.) Since 4/5ths of the US would give their left nut to make $91k/year (especially without ever working another day), I think I have a pretty strong case.
(The CPA side of me decided to run the numbers, even with additional payments removed from principal to make up for inflation as the decades go on. You run out of money at age 91, never working again.)
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 24, 2007, 08:59:47 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 24, 2007, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 24, 2007, 02:36:33 PM
And we all know how great of businessmen/investors pro athletes are...
You can say that about any occupation. I know plenty of people who are successful in their "regular" jobs who are terrible with their business investments whether it be a restaurant, side business, etc.
On the flip side, there are fine examples of NBA players who have done well with their money in terms of investments (Grant Hill, Greg Anthony, Magic Johnson, etc.).
Can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm just surprised at how quick we are to eat our own kid.
Couldn't agree with you more.
I know we have all seen the cliche NBA player with jewelry, pimped ride and an entourage the size of a small city... but to make any assumptions about how DJ will or will not invest his money is crazy.
Lots of players have invested well... we just see and hear about the ones who have wasted the most money, not those who have carved out a nice career playing and then coaching/scouting.
DJ's been a model student athlete and a good person from all credible reports... so why as soon as he has some money do we assume he will start trying to be a "baller" and blow $400,000 per year.
Sheesh.
I think it's also safe to assume that he's not going to save every penny of his first two years worth of paychecks to get himself a long-term annuity. Any assumption that he would have anywhere near the full amount of his salary to invest is crazy. Good investor or not, it's just not going to happen. House, car, trainer, clothes, electronics, etc. Even if he's frugal, you can't expect him to bring home $500k and not spend any of it.
nba players may not think 1 million is a lot but to a kid coming into the league ...WITH NOT A RED CENT..that looks great..dj isnt a seasoned nba vet and he doesnt think like 1 either...i believe that he thinks as long as he can get his "shot" he will make the best of it...over-achiever his entire life..why should he feel differently now... i think the challenge excites him and i wish him the best...stays or goes, we will see an inspired dj somewhere next yr
Quote from: TJ on April 24, 2007, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 24, 2007, 08:59:47 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 24, 2007, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 24, 2007, 02:36:33 PM
And we all know how great of businessmen/investors pro athletes are...
You can say that about any occupation. I know plenty of people who are successful in their "regular" jobs who are terrible with their business investments whether it be a restaurant, side business, etc.
On the flip side, there are fine examples of NBA players who have done well with their money in terms of investments (Grant Hill, Greg Anthony, Magic Johnson, etc.).
Can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm just surprised at how quick we are to eat our own kid.
Couldn't agree with you more.
I know we have all seen the cliche NBA player with jewelry, pimped ride and an entourage the size of a small city... but to make any assumptions about how DJ will or will not invest his money is crazy.
Lots of players have invested well... we just see and hear about the ones who have wasted the most money, not those who have carved out a nice career playing and then coaching/scouting.
DJ's been a model student athlete and a good person from all credible reports... so why as soon as he has some money do we assume he will start trying to be a "baller" and blow $400,000 per year.
Sheesh.
I think it's also safe to assume that he's not going to save every penny of his first two years worth of paychecks to get himself a long-term annuity. Any assumption that he would have anywhere near the full amount of his salary to invest is crazy. Good investor or not, it's just not going to happen. House, car, trainer, clothes, electronics, etc. Even if he's frugal, you can't expect him to bring home $500k and not spend any of it.
I agree that the average NBA player has expenses that the average person will and could never have (trainer, agent, accountant, etc etc.).
I'm just saying that people here seem to hint at that DJ would be buying up new jewlery and vehicles for his whole family and that $400,000 per year wouldn't be a TON of money.
Hell, $80,000/year is a TON of money to most Americans.
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 25, 2007, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: TJ on April 24, 2007, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 24, 2007, 08:59:47 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 24, 2007, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 24, 2007, 02:36:33 PM
And we all know how great of businessmen/investors pro athletes are...
You can say that about any occupation. I know plenty of people who are successful in their "regular" jobs who are terrible with their business investments whether it be a restaurant, side business, etc.
On the flip side, there are fine examples of NBA players who have done well with their money in terms of investments (Grant Hill, Greg Anthony, Magic Johnson, etc.).
Can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm just surprised at how quick we are to eat our own kid.
Couldn't agree with you more.
I know we have all seen the cliche NBA player with jewelry, pimped ride and an entourage the size of a small city... but to make any assumptions about how DJ will or will not invest his money is crazy.
Lots of players have invested well... we just see and hear about the ones who have wasted the most money, not those who have carved out a nice career playing and then coaching/scouting.
DJ's been a model student athlete and a good person from all credible reports... so why as soon as he has some money do we assume he will start trying to be a "baller" and blow $400,000 per year.
Sheesh.
I think it's also safe to assume that he's not going to save every penny of his first two years worth of paychecks to get himself a long-term annuity. Any assumption that he would have anywhere near the full amount of his salary to invest is crazy. Good investor or not, it's just not going to happen. House, car, trainer, clothes, electronics, etc. Even if he's frugal, you can't expect him to bring home $500k and not spend any of it.
I agree that the average NBA player has expenses that the average person will and could never have (trainer, agent, accountant, etc etc.).
I'm just saying that people here seem to hint at that DJ would be buying up new jewlery and vehicles for his whole family and that $400,000 per year wouldn't be a TON of money.
Hell, $80,000/year is a TON of money to most Americans.
I think one thing we should be able to agree on is that NBA Players are not most Americans. I do think that DJ can and will manage his income reasonably whenever it comes and however much it is, but he's not coming from the same place we are. Most of us are surrounded by people that make similar amounts to us. He's going to be surrounded solely by multi-millionaires. It's just a different life than most of us have any idea about.
Rawdog is right, and I think his numbers are on the extreme low end personally -- and that is not living out of control. You really think he will only spend $4k on clothes -- one or two suits maybe. Rookie money isn't much by itself, and frankly $91K isn't that much money to be honest. Remember, these are kids who have spent years in college -- they don't have a house or condo usually, don't have home furnishings, don't have the clothes or the cars that he might need. Even after I got my first good job I went out and spent a ton not because I was blowing it, but because you need to set yourself up. God forbid his gets drafted by the Knicks, Nets, Lakers,Clippers, Heat, Bulls, Wizards or any other team in a big city -- his remaining salary wouldn't cover the down payment on a house. Wait, that's half the NBA. Better hope he gets drafted by the Bucks, Pacers or another "cheap" town.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 09:41:38 PM
Quote from: 79Warrior on April 24, 2007, 07:53:42 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 09:08:24 AM
The one thing that concerns me is if during the camps, DJ hears he'll be drafted, even if it is 2nd round and would certainly make a roster for league Minimum.
That's $427k in year one, even if you do ride the pine. Chances are, he'd get a 2nd year. That's (edit: another) $711k. Presto. You're set for life, if you don't pimp your Escalade every year.
If you think a few years at that salary and you are set for life then you best stay in college. Wow, you have no clue about the real world.
I don't? No clue? Please explain how a pre-tax annuity of $91k per year (for life) wouldn't enable you to live pretty comfortably in the US .. seeing as $88k (also pre-tax) puts you in the upper quartile of income in the US (and that's WITH working 2080 hours/year.) Since 4/5ths of the US would give their left nut to make $91k/year (especially without ever working another day), I think I have a pretty strong case.
(The CPA side of me decided to run the numbers, even with additional payments removed from principal to make up for inflation as the decades go on. You run out of money at age 91, never working again.)
No you don't, frankly. You assume his entire pre-tax income is somehow invested in the market, yet fail to realize what he could ACTUALLY invest after initial expenses like, oh, TAXES are taken out. Please explain to me how someone gets that return on the money someone would realistically have first, then we can go to the next step.
And as I pointed out -- don't live in any city because that doesn't get it done there. If you want to live in the middle of nowhere that will provide you a decent living. Living in any metropolis comfortably is a far different story. I am guessing by your comments that you don't and haven't.
Isn't the off-season great? We get to argue over whether $1.13 million dollars is a lot of money or not.
I give up.
Wer're arguing money here and there's absolutely no guarantee DJ will see a penny of it. Suppose he's promised a spot in the first round, so he stays in the draft. Then some team changes its mind and DJ falls, to say, 40th. Then he doesn't make the team in training camp. See ya. No money.
Quote from: ecompt on April 25, 2007, 03:11:39 PM
Wer're arguing money here and there's absolutely no guarantee DJ will see a penny of it. Suppose he's promised a spot in the first round, so he stays in the draft. Then some team changes its mind and DJ falls, to say, 40th. Then he doesn't make the team in training camp. See ya. No money.
Or worse yet he stays and goes undrafted ala Randoph Morris -- then the board monitors the health of NBA PGs weekly to see if someone might reach out and sign him, or wonders whether if he has a good game he will sign and be gone. If you thought the speculation about the draft this year was bad, what happens if he stays and isn't selected?
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 24, 2007, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 24, 2007, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
Ah. I see. So all those people in the US making $91k/year don't have houses or kids? uh-huh.
He won't be making 91K a year. Where are you getting that from? By adding up his two year pay and saying that's what he'll have in the bank?
If he has 100K in the bank after his first year I would be amazed. Are you still in school?
Lets say his take home pay after taxes and after his agent (10%?) and after his trainer and any other of the cost we don't know about that involve getting ready for the nba draft get added up his take home pay will probably be about half his salary. We'll say 215.
His mom lives in the ghetto i'm pretty sure he'll want to get her out of there, we'll say that's an additional cost of 30K.
185
He wants to buy a car... Pretty sure he wouldn't be happy with a saturn. we'll say 40K. I think that's being VERY modest
145
Oh, he hasn't even gotten a pad for him and mom yet. We'll assume he'll rent and puts 1,200 a month into it.
131
Plazma TV 2K
129
Some going out bling 5K
124
car for mom, 20
104
clothes, nba players have to get suited up and you know james will want to look good. 4k
100
we haven't coverd, clubbing expenses, girlfriend costs, vaction costs, food, his nintendo wii, a sound system for the plazma tv, furnature for where he's living, plain tickets for having some old highschool friends visit.
But never mind all that i'm sure you are correct and all 2nd round picks in the NBA have 1.4 mil in the bank after their 2nd season.
Dude, you have spent too much time watching MTV cribs.
Just because he is young doesn't mean he is going to need "ice" and plasma tv's everywhere.
Give the kid a break.
I understand that he will probably purchase some nice things because he will be making good money, but you spit out so many stereotypes there I can hardly type right now.
Maybe he will invest all of it... who the hell knows???
And does DJ's mom really live in the ghetto? I don't know if I have heard that before. It could be true, but I've just never heard that.
What the hell are you talking about? MTV Cribbs. I said 1,200 a month for rent. THat's not big living. I live in chicago, some people i know live in $h!t holes for that much. 40 grand for a car? That's not exactly living large. Plazma TV's everywhere? I said 1 for 2 grand, that's a small plazma you douche.. Stereo types? This is 100% based on what i would do. And every thing I put was put with the idea that he lives completely reasonably and saves 25% of his salery. I WISH i invested 25%. So basically i worked under the assumption he manages cash better than me.
Why don't you think before you call someone a racist.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 09:41:38 PM
Quote from: 79Warrior on April 24, 2007, 07:53:42 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 09:08:24 AM
The one thing that concerns me is if during the camps, DJ hears he'll be drafted, even if it is 2nd round and would certainly make a roster for league Minimum.
That's $427k in year one, even if you do ride the pine. Chances are, he'd get a 2nd year. That's (edit: another) $711k. Presto. You're set for life, if you don't pimp your Escalade every year.
If you think a few years at that salary and you are set for life then you best stay in college. Wow, you have no clue about the real world.
I don't? No clue? Please explain how a pre-tax annuity of $91k per year (for life) wouldn't enable you to live pretty comfortably in the US .. seeing as $88k (also pre-tax) puts you in the upper quartile of income in the US (and that's WITH working 2080 hours/year.) Since 4/5ths of the US would give their left nut to make $91k/year (especially without ever working another day), I think I have a pretty strong case.
(The CPA side of me decided to run the numbers, even with additional payments removed from principal to make up for inflation as the decades go on. You run out of money at age 91, never working again.)
I don't understand where you are getting these numbers from. No one does. Please explain how someone can get 91 grand a year by making 1.4 mil then paying taxes, paying for an agent and paying living expenses. Realistically, even if he lives off grule, get's a studio apartment, drives a saturn, shops at wallmart, doesn't go to clubs, doesn't get a girl friend who wants him to buy him anything, doesn't get cable, doesn't go on vacation, doesn't hire any sort of personal trainer during the offseaon. (cuase that is what happens)
He'll have how much of that in the bank? 750 k, maybe?
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 26, 2007, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 24, 2007, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 24, 2007, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
Ah. I see. So all those people in the US making $91k/year don't have houses or kids? uh-huh.
He won't be making 91K a year. Where are you getting that from? By adding up his two year pay and saying that's what he'll have in the bank?
If he has 100K in the bank after his first year I would be amazed. Are you still in school?
Lets say his take home pay after taxes and after his agent (10%?) and after his trainer and any other of the cost we don't know about that involve getting ready for the nba draft get added up his take home pay will probably be about half his salary. We'll say 215.
His mom lives in the ghetto i'm pretty sure he'll want to get her out of there, we'll say that's an additional cost of 30K.
185
He wants to buy a car... Pretty sure he wouldn't be happy with a saturn. we'll say 40K. I think that's being VERY modest
145
Oh, he hasn't even gotten a pad for him and mom yet. We'll assume he'll rent and puts 1,200 a month into it.
131
Plazma TV 2K
129
Some going out bling 5K
124
car for mom, 20
104
clothes, nba players have to get suited up and you know james will want to look good. 4k
100
we haven't coverd, clubbing expenses, girlfriend costs, vaction costs, food, his nintendo wii, a sound system for the plazma tv, furnature for where he's living, plain tickets for having some old highschool friends visit.
But never mind all that i'm sure you are correct and all 2nd round picks in the NBA have 1.4 mil in the bank after their 2nd season.
Dude, you have spent too much time watching MTV cribs.
Just because he is young doesn't mean he is going to need "ice" and plasma tv's everywhere.
Give the kid a break.
I understand that he will probably purchase some nice things because he will be making good money, but you spit out so many stereotypes there I can hardly type right now.
Maybe he will invest all of it... who the hell knows???
And does DJ's mom really live in the ghetto? I don't know if I have heard that before. It could be true, but I've just never heard that.
What the hell are you talking about? MTV Cribbs. I said 1,200 a month for rent. THat's not big living. I live in chicago, some people i know live in $h!t holes for that much. 40 grand for a car? That's not exactly living large. Plazma TV's everywhere? I said 1 for 2 grand, that's a small plazma you douche.. Stereo types? This is 100% based on what i would do. And every thing I put was put with the idea that he lives completely reasonably and saves 25% of his salery. I WISH i invested 25%. So basically i worked under the assumption he manages cash better than me.
Why don't you think before you call someone a racist.
Dude, we can agree to disagree no big deal... but saying that his mom "lives in the ghetto" (can anybody confirm what their living status is?), and "Some going out bling for 5K" is a little stereotypical... it just is.
IF DJ goes pro, he will buy what he needs/wants... whatever that may be (that may or may not include jewelry, clubbing and girlfriend expenses)
Also, I wouldn't expect him to pay for the vehicles with cash, so that will free up some money as well.
The kid is going to make a lot of money, and that's great for him and his family. How he (and they) chose to spend it is up to them.
DJ has stated in one of the articles (in the JS, I believe) that part of his motivation for testing the waters is that he wants to take care of his family.
From what I've read, he doesn't come from a middle-class family.
Richmond isn't Schaumburg.
Quote from: bartmiller#1 on April 27, 2007, 10:47:18 AM
DJ has stated in one of the articles (in the JS, I believe) that part of his motivation for testing the waters is that he wants to take care of his family.
From what I've read, he doesn't come from a middle-class family.
Richmond isn't Schaumburg.
You've got that right. In 2005 the median household income for Richmond, IN was $29,800. For Schaumburg, IL it was $64,828.
Unemployment rate in Richmond is
9.1% vs. 3.1% for Schaumburg.
5.8% of Richmond folk have graduate or professional degrees, vs. 12.3% for Schaumburg.
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 27, 2007, 09:44:48 AM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 26, 2007, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 24, 2007, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 24, 2007, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
Ah. I see. So all those people in the US making $91k/year don't have houses or kids? uh-huh.
Dude, we can agree to disagree no big deal... but saying that his mom "lives in the ghetto" (can anybody confirm what their living status is?), and "Some going out bling for 5K" is a little stereotypical... it just is.
IF DJ goes pro, he will buy what he needs/wants... whatever that may be (that may or may not include jewelry, clubbing and girlfriend expenses)
Also, I wouldn't expect him to pay for the vehicles with cash, so that will free up some money as well.
The kid is going to make a lot of money, and that's great for him and his family. How he (and they) chose to spend it is up to them.
I can't agree to disagree with you since you don't have a point. What's your opinion on this? That's he's going to manage to save more than 25% of his PRE-TAX salary? My point is that I made up an extremely reasonable budget where he was saving TONS and you told me to "give the kid a break". And yes, if he was an omish kid going into a sheep herding business i wouldn't assume he was going to spend 5k on any sort of watches, ear rings, rings, or necklaces. BUt seriously? you don't think he's going to buy himself ONE nice thing? Who are you and what kind of little bubble are you from. I'm from a rough neighborhood in chicago, when i was at mu my roommates were EOP kids, i spent half my freshman and sophomore year hanging out around 29th and capital. Oddly the conversation never once turned to the benefits of diversifying a portfolio and the effects of compound interest on an investment made at age 19 vs 22. Yet we did spend a lot of time talking about ice, rims, and other things we wanted to buy for ourselves and our family when we were done with school and started making money. You can call it stereotyping if you want, i call it the application of real world experience, something you seem to lack on this specific topic. Oh, and if he's investing 100K a year he'll probably be getting an accountant, forgot to budget that one in.
And if he doesn't pay cash for the car then that means he's financing it and he'll end up paying more interest than he's making off the additional money he has in the bank.
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 27, 2007, 01:34:07 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 27, 2007, 09:44:48 AM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 26, 2007, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 24, 2007, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 24, 2007, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
Ah. I see. So all those people in the US making $91k/year don't have houses or kids? uh-huh.
Dude, we can agree to disagree no big deal... but saying that his mom "lives in the ghetto" (can anybody confirm what their living status is?), and "Some going out bling for 5K" is a little stereotypical... it just is.
IF DJ goes pro, he will buy what he needs/wants... whatever that may be (that may or may not include jewelry, clubbing and girlfriend expenses)
Also, I wouldn't expect him to pay for the vehicles with cash, so that will free up some money as well.
The kid is going to make a lot of money, and that's great for him and his family. How he (and they) chose to spend it is up to them.
I can't agree to disagree with you since you don't have a point. What's your opinion on this? That's he's going to manage to save more than 25% of his PRE-TAX salary? My point is that I made up an extremely reasonable budget where he was saving TONS and you told me to "give the kid a break". And yes, if he was an omish kid going into a sheep herding business i wouldn't assume he was going to spend 5k on any sort of watches, ear rings, rings, or necklaces. But seriously? you don't think he's going to buy himself ONE nice thing? Who are you and what kind of little bubble are you from. I'm from a rough neighborhood in chicago, when i was at mu my roommates were EOP kids, i spent half my freshman and sophomore year hanging out around 29th and capital. Oddly the conversation never once turned to the benefits of diversifying a portfolio and the effects of compound interest on an investment made at age 19 vs 22. Yet we did spend a lot of time talking about ice, rims, and other things we wanted to buy for ourselves and our family when we were done with school and started making money. You can call it stereotyping if you want, i call it the application of real world experience, something you seem to lack on this specific topic. Oh, and if he's investing 100K a year he'll probably be getting an accountant, forgot to budget that one in.
And if he doesn't pay cash for the car then that means he's financing it and he'll end up paying more interest than he's making off the additional money he has in the bank.
Several things...
#1 you are right that he probably won't be putting a ton of money in the bank, I would never claim that. When a person is young, investing isn't really on the top of the priority list. That's real life. But, when you are making the amount of money that NBA players make, and given their career length... it would be awfully short-sighted to not save.
#2 He will obviously have some "start up" costs for himself and his family ( new house for his mom (based on what others have posted), furniture, vehicle(s), agent, trainer, accountant, etc). I am not debating those costs either. Those are real life.
#3 Financing the cars obviously makes them cost more, but it will help him remain more liquid for his first few seasons. I don't even want to start debating financing vs. cash because I'm not an accountant. I'm just stating that he will not need $60,000+ his first year to buy vehicles.
#4 This is where we disagree... you stated that he would have $215,000 take home in your original post, and then claimed that James would not have that much money to save because of his "expenses".
I just think it's a big assumption to think that James would be spending $215,000 in his first year... I know he will have expenses... but to think that he will be spending that amount of money is a little crazy.... I'm sure there are guys who have done it... but I just think it's a leap to think that DJ will be one of those guys.
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 27, 2007, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 27, 2007, 01:34:07 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 27, 2007, 09:44:48 AM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 26, 2007, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 24, 2007, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 24, 2007, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
Ah. I see. So all those people in the US making $91k/year don't have houses or kids? uh-huh.
Dude, we can agree to disagree no big deal... but saying that his mom "lives in the ghetto" (can anybody confirm what their living status is?), and "Some going out bling for 5K" is a little stereotypical... it just is.
IF DJ goes pro, he will buy what he needs/wants... whatever that may be (that may or may not include jewelry, clubbing and girlfriend expenses)
Also, I wouldn't expect him to pay for the vehicles with cash, so that will free up some money as well.
The kid is going to make a lot of money, and that's great for him and his family. How he (and they) chose to spend it is up to them.
I can't agree to disagree with you since you don't have a point. What's your opinion on this? That's he's going to manage to save more than 25% of his PRE-TAX salary? My point is that I made up an extremely reasonable budget where he was saving TONS and you told me to "give the kid a break". And yes, if he was an omish kid going into a sheep herding business i wouldn't assume he was going to spend 5k on any sort of watches, ear rings, rings, or necklaces. But seriously? you don't think he's going to buy himself ONE nice thing? Who are you and what kind of little bubble are you from. I'm from a rough neighborhood in chicago, when i was at mu my roommates were EOP kids, i spent half my freshman and sophomore year hanging out around 29th and capital. Oddly the conversation never once turned to the benefits of diversifying a portfolio and the effects of compound interest on an investment made at age 19 vs 22. Yet we did spend a lot of time talking about ice, rims, and other things we wanted to buy for ourselves and our family when we were done with school and started making money. You can call it stereotyping if you want, i call it the application of real world experience, something you seem to lack on this specific topic. Oh, and if he's investing 100K a year he'll probably be getting an accountant, forgot to budget that one in.
And if he doesn't pay cash for the car then that means he's financing it and he'll end up paying more interest than he's making off the additional money he has in the bank.
Several things...
#1 you are right that he probably won't be putting a ton of money in the bank, I would never claim that. When a person is young, investing isn't really on the top of the priority list. That's real life. But, when you are making the amount of money that NBA players make, and given their career length... it would be awfully short-sighted to not save.
#2 He will obviously have some "start up" costs for himself and his family ( new house for his mom (based on what others have posted), furniture, vehicle(s), agent, trainer, accountant, etc). I am not debating those costs either. Those are real life.
#3 Financing the cars obviously makes them cost more, but it will help him remain more liquid for his first few seasons. I don't even want to start debating financing vs. cash because I'm not an accountant. I'm just stating that he will not need $60,000+ his first year to buy vehicles.
#4 This is where we disagree... you stated that he would have $215,000 take home in your original post, and then claimed that James would not have that much money to save because of his "expenses".
I just think it's a big assumption to think that James would be spending $215,000 in his first year... I know he will have expenses... but to think that he will be spending that amount of money is a little crazy.... I'm sure there are guys who have done it... but I just think it's a leap to think that DJ will be one of those guys.
I didn't assume that. I assumed he would be spending at least 115K and saving 100K. The difference between take home pay and money he was actually budgeting was based on taxes, agents, and anything else that an nba rookie has to pay for before he can start budgeting his living expenses. (do they need to get a lawyer? do they pay for any of their trainers they work with before the draft?)
I don't know why you thought that I said that he'd be spending 215. I thought I put a very clear, itemized budget that added up to 115.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 24, 2007, 11:10:55 AM
yes the top 6 in 2003 was the best top 6 but the overall draft class fell off after that.
Wasn't #7 Kirk Hinrich? I wouldn't make the cutoff before him. Afterall, he's the best white American in the NBA.
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 30, 2007, 08:47:56 AM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 27, 2007, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 27, 2007, 01:34:07 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 27, 2007, 09:44:48 AM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 26, 2007, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 24, 2007, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: RawdogDX on April 24, 2007, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 24, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
Ah. I see. So all those people in the US making $91k/year don't have houses or kids? uh-huh.
Dude, we can agree to disagree no big deal... but saying that his mom "lives in the ghetto" (can anybody confirm what their living status is?), and "Some going out bling for 5K" is a little stereotypical... it just is.
IF DJ goes pro, he will buy what he needs/wants... whatever that may be (that may or may not include jewelry, clubbing and girlfriend expenses)
Also, I wouldn't expect him to pay for the vehicles with cash, so that will free up some money as well.
The kid is going to make a lot of money, and that's great for him and his family. How he (and they) chose to spend it is up to them.
I can't agree to disagree with you since you don't have a point. What's your opinion on this? That's he's going to manage to save more than 25% of his PRE-TAX salary? My point is that I made up an extremely reasonable budget where he was saving TONS and you told me to "give the kid a break". And yes, if he was an omish kid going into a sheep herding business i wouldn't assume he was going to spend 5k on any sort of watches, ear rings, rings, or necklaces. But seriously? you don't think he's going to buy himself ONE nice thing? Who are you and what kind of little bubble are you from. I'm from a rough neighborhood in chicago, when i was at mu my roommates were EOP kids, i spent half my freshman and sophomore year hanging out around 29th and capital. Oddly the conversation never once turned to the benefits of diversifying a portfolio and the effects of compound interest on an investment made at age 19 vs 22. Yet we did spend a lot of time talking about ice, rims, and other things we wanted to buy for ourselves and our family when we were done with school and started making money. You can call it stereotyping if you want, i call it the application of real world experience, something you seem to lack on this specific topic. Oh, and if he's investing 100K a year he'll probably be getting an accountant, forgot to budget that one in.
And if he doesn't pay cash for the car then that means he's financing it and he'll end up paying more interest than he's making off the additional money he has in the bank.
Several things...
#1 you are right that he probably won't be putting a ton of money in the bank, I would never claim that. When a person is young, investing isn't really on the top of the priority list. That's real life. But, when you are making the amount of money that NBA players make, and given their career length... it would be awfully short-sighted to not save.
#2 He will obviously have some "start up" costs for himself and his family ( new house for his mom (based on what others have posted), furniture, vehicle(s), agent, trainer, accountant, etc). I am not debating those costs either. Those are real life.
#3 Financing the cars obviously makes them cost more, but it will help him remain more liquid for his first few seasons. I don't even want to start debating financing vs. cash because I'm not an accountant. I'm just stating that he will not need $60,000+ his first year to buy vehicles.
#4 This is where we disagree... you stated that he would have $215,000 take home in your original post, and then claimed that James would not have that much money to save because of his "expenses".
I just think it's a big assumption to think that James would be spending $215,000 in his first year... I know he will have expenses... but to think that he will be spending that amount of money is a little crazy.... I'm sure there are guys who have done it... but I just think it's a leap to think that DJ will be one of those guys.
I didn't assume that. I assumed he would be spending at least 115K and saving 100K. The difference between take home pay and money he was actually budgeting was based on taxes, agents, and anything else that an nba rookie has to pay for before he can start budgeting his living expenses. (do they need to get a lawyer? do they pay for any of their trainers they work with before the draft?)
I don't know why you thought that I said that he'd be spending 215. I thought I put a very clear, itemized budget that added up to 115.
Actually, your direct quote was:
"He won't be making 91K a year. Where are you getting that from? By adding up his two year pay and saying that's what he'll have in the bank?
If he has 100K in the bank after his first year I would be amazed. Are you still in school?
Lets say his take home pay after taxes and after his agent (10%?) and after his trainer and any other of the cost we don't know about that involve getting ready for the nba draft get added up his take home pay will probably be about half his salary. We'll say 215."
Based upon that (and your list of expenses), it appeared that you were saying DJ would have a tough time saving a lot of money because of his "expenses" that included paying cash for 2 cars, jewelry, getting his mom "out of the ghetto" and "clubs and girlfriends"...
I disagreed with this because I think it is a big jump to assume that DJ won't be able to save much money because of the expenses you listed.
I don't know how DJ will spend his money... only he knows that.
Kirk Hinrich. The best white american in the NBA. He should make up business cards. I don't follow the NBA very closely. Could that possibly be true? Nash is Canadian. Nowitzki is certainly not an American. Nothing against Kirk Hinrich but that is not a very good sign for white american basketball players. Where have you gone Larry Bird? Randy Breuer isn't still in the NBA, is he? He was the whitest american-period.