When we signed DG, he was a 320 lb two-star big. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. He has made great strides since CO got hurt. Ponder how far he has come since he was signed for a few seconds before you make disparaging remarks about Durley. I am looking forward to the same kind of development from Aaron.
Gardner had a ton of skill when he came to campus....much more skill than Durley. Developing Durley will be totally different.
Honestly, both are coming in as projects. Nobody expected Gardner to contribute much as a freshman, certainly not as much as he did, and I don't think anyone expected him to be doing what he's done this quickly. He put up numbers in Virginia, but it's not exactly a hotbed, and he was a 2-3 star depending on the service. Durley hasn't done much in HS, but put up some decent AAU numbers on a team with Ridley. He impressed enough to garner other high-major interest and offers.
Let's at least see him on the court before we ride him out of town.
Gardner was not highly recruited and has developed into a very solid player. But Durley could just as easily be the next Roseboro or Mbao. Hopefully he will be a contributor but I'm not holding my breath.
We need front court depth in the worst way. Barring a serious injury, he won't be needed for two years so he's got plenty of time to develop and work on his game. If there is an injury to Otule or Gardner, he can play spot minutes here and there while the other big guy gets a rest. I don't see the down side.
They couldn't be more dissimilar in terms of production on the HS level. DG is the most skilled incoming post since Key and was described as the best shooter on his team by his coach. What he accomplished on the HS level cannot be compared to Durley.
His junior year was momentous as it culminated in a state title for King's Fork. Davante was selected as a second-team all-stater.
However, it was his senior year when Davante blossomed. He surpassed the 1,000 career point mark early in the season and became the third King's Fork player to do so. He led his King's Fork basketball team to a 24-3 record. It was the Bulldogs' second straight undefeated season through the Southeastern District, third consecutive district tourney title, and fourth straight year reaching the Eastern Region Tournament.
While averaging 23 points (led all South Hampton Roads Group AAA players), 13 rebounds and two blocks per game as a senior, he finished his three-year varsity career with 1,431 points and 992 rebounds.
Davante piled up multiple accolades during his senior campaign:
Associated Press (Virginia) Group AAA boys basketball first team
VHSCA (Virginia High School Coaches Association) Group AAA All-State Team (top center in the state)
First-team All-Eastern Region
First-team All-Southeastern District
Don't know about stars and all that, and we probably didn;t expect too much from Gardner because of how he was rated, but it was obvious he was highly skilled from the first time he stepped on the floor. Great hands and balance and post moves. Lack of recruiting stars obviously was because he was too heavy and lacks athleticism. Much different kind of player from a project guy who is big and may be athletic but lacks basketball skills. Sometimes the basketball skills never come. Having never seen Durley, will reserve judgement until I see him. Don't think Buzz would make as big a reach as he did for Mbao at this point.
Davate = All State, extremely skilled big whose conditioning was sub par.
Durley = big ? who hardly ever plays on his high school team. I'm aware he plays behind Cameron Ridley, but if he had Gardner's game he wouldn't be pulling splinters out of his backside with DNP-coaches decision next to his name in the boxscore.
Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on January 11, 2012, 09:03:15 PM
Gardner had a ton of skill when he came to campus....much more skill than Durley. Developing Durley will be totally different.
I think Durley is more in the mode of Otule. I would think Otule was ranked lower than Gardner coming out of high school. Durley, if he works hard, will develope. He has two years before we need significant contribution from him
Sounds like DomJames has seen Durley multiple times. Would love a scouting report on him. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 11, 2012, 09:45:15 PM
Sounds like DomJames has seen Durley multiple times. Would love a scouting report on him. Thanks in advance.
He is a bad comparison with Gardner.....no scouting report necessary. Comparing his development with Otule has a lot more merit. DG & Durley are apples to oranges. I thought that was obvious.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 11, 2012, 09:37:54 PMDavate = All State, extremely skilled big whose conditioning was sub par.
Durley = big ? who hardly ever plays on his high school team. I'm aware he plays behind Cameron Ridley, but if he had Gardner's game he wouldn't be pulling splinters out of his backside with DNP-coaches decision next to his name in the boxscore.
If Cameron Ridley suddenly committed to Marquette, he would probably be getting 25-30 mpg at the 5 pretty much right off the bat. Durley would be pulling splinters out of his backside next year, but he'd have help from CO and Gardner due to the extra time they'd have over by the bench while Ridley took their minutes.
one positive thing about Durley's development is that he has been a big kid for a long time... he's not some lanky guy that grew 7 inches in two years. because of this, he is likely to be relatively agile and know how to use and balance his size (and maybe less prone to injury???). I don't expect his hands or feet to be as good as Davante's but I believe he will physically be ahead of Otule's curve
Yeah. Gardner would look good playing when Nunnery has Dudley's scholarship.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 11, 2012, 09:49:26 PM
If Cameron Ridley suddenly committed to Marquette, he would probably be getting 25-30 mpg at the 5 pretty much right off the bat. Durley would be pulling splinters out of his backside next year, but he'd have help from CO and Gardner due to the extra time they'd have over by the bench while Ridley took their minutes.
You may be right about how good Ridley is, Brew. I don't know, I've never seen him play. But being a backup is one thing. Having a bunch of DNP-Coaches Decision is another. I'm wary of that - if a high school coach can't find anything but garbage minutes for a guy with a full ride to a Big East team either the coach is bad or the kid is, at best, a major, major project.
Why don't we compare Gardner to Chones?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 11, 2012, 10:16:33 PMYou may be right about how good Ridley is, Brew. I don't know, I've never seen him play. But being a backup is one thing. Having a bunch of DNP-Coaches Decision is another. I'm wary of that - if a high school coach can't find anything but garbage minutes for a guy with a full ride to a Big East team either the coach is bad or the kid is, at best, a major, major project.
I have no idea where Durley is at, but I'm amazed at how many people are overlooking his AAU productivity. Let's be honest, AAU is probably more important these days than HS ball is. I also don't know why Ridley gets virtually every HS minute and Durley gets DNPs. Maybe his coach is hoping that Ridley will be his eventual meal ticket to bigger jobs or training opportunities.
What I do know is that Durley was a very solid backup for Ridley and spot starter for
the same AAU team (Houston Hoopst*rs), and Buzz and company seem to be good evaluators of talent. Sure, some big projects haven't worked out (Roseboro, Mbao), but some have (Otule, DG). I think it's worth the flier, especially since guys like Frank Martin and Sean Miller were also at least showing interest.
Worst case scenario, he can't cut the Big East and transfers after a year or two. But I'd rather find out in person if ge can make the grade...who knows, maybe he's another Otule with a shorter learning curve. An maybe he could be even better than that. I just don't think we have enough 6'10"+ guys to turn our noses up at the ones that do commit.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 11, 2012, 10:36:08 PM
I have no idea where Durley is at, but I'm amazed at how many people are overlooking his AAU productivity. Let's be honest, AAU is probably more important these days than HS ball is. I also don't know why Ridley gets virtually every HS minute and Durley gets DNPs. Maybe his coach is hoping that Ridley will be his eventual meal ticket to bigger jobs or training opportunities.
What I do know is that Durley was a very solid backup for Ridley and spot starter for
the same AAU team (Houston Hoopst*rs), and Buzz and company seem to be good evaluators of talent. Sure, some big projects haven't worked out (Roseboro, Mbao), but some have (Otule, DG). I think it's worth the flier, especially since guys like Frank Martin and Sean Miller were also at least showing interest.
Worst case scenario, he can't cut the Big East and transfers after a year or two. But I'd rather find out in person if ge can make the grade...who knows, maybe he's another Otule with a shorter learning curve. An maybe he could be even better than that. I just don't think we have enough 6'10"+ guys to turn our noses up at the ones that do commit.
True that. What I'm more amazed about is that it seems everyone acts like they've seen all these recruits play many times when in reality probably very few have seen them play outside of a few youtube highlights. I've learned to simply wait it out and see what happens, because we all know how many surprises this team has had each year (good and bad).
****Just want to make sure I am clear after reading this thread************
The posters that for years have complained that MU is not signing any bigs are now ...sight unseen... complaining about the bigs that MU has signed?
OK...just wanted to be sure I was following this lunacy accurately.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on January 12, 2012, 06:41:05 AM
****Just want to make sure I am clear after reading this thread************
The posters that for years have complained that MU is not signing any bigs are now ...sight unseen... complaining about the bigs that MU has signed?
OK...just wanted to be sure I was following this lunacy accurately.
That about sums it up.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on January 12, 2012, 06:41:05 AM****Just want to make sure I am clear after reading this thread************
The posters that for years have complained that MU is not signing any bigs are now ...sight unseen... complaining about the bigs that MU has signed?
OK...just wanted to be sure I was following this lunacy accurately.
+1,000,000
It absolutely amazes me that we have a 6'11", 270-lb center coming in and it honestly sounds like half of the Marquette online world doesn't even want the guy here. Are you kidding me?
Here's what baffles me. The mere thought of Roseboro and Mbao seem to have half of Marquette nation in a tizzy. My question is...what negative effect are they having on the program? Roseboro never suited up for us! Mbao is at Marshall! We gave them a shot, it didn't work, all parties involved moved on. Why is it such a horrible notion that we do the same with Durley? We also gave a shot to Otule and Gardner and both worked out just fine. We gave a shot to JUCO guys like Jimmy Butler and DJO and that seems to have worked out okay as well. We don't lose anything if it doesn't work. But what if Durley develops as well as Otule did? What if he's better than CO? No one here can say he won't be. Let's just be happy that Buzz is getting bigs. I'd rather give a shot to an unheralded big (that is producing at the AAU level) than add another tweener wing player that will be stuck on the bench.
Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on January 11, 2012, 09:03:15 PM
Gardner had a ton of skill when he came to campus....much more skill than Durley. Developing Durley will be totally different.
So, since you have seen Durley play, give us some insight. Strengths, weaknesses, etc.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on January 12, 2012, 06:41:05 AM
****Just want to make sure I am clear after reading this thread************
The posters that for years have complained that MU is not signing any bigs are now ...sight unseen... complaining about the bigs that MU has signed?
OK...just wanted to be sure I was following this lunacy accurately.
Exactly...based on nothing but boxscores. Showing no faith in the coaching staff that wants to bring him here.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 11, 2012, 10:36:08 PM
I have no idea where Durley is at, but I'm amazed at how many people are overlooking his AAU productivity.
What is his AAU productivity? There are several references to the fact that Durley played well in AAU but I've never seen any numbers to back it up.
It's really difficult to understand why we have so much trouble recruiting two or three good big men. We have to scrap and fight against taller teams every week. "Other" teams have good big men, why not Marquette? And, when we do recruit a big man he's not on the charts.
It's also hard to understand why Durley doesn't play much on his high school team. Can understand that he plays behind Ridley, but still, if has talent, he should deserve minutes. Why didn't he change to a high school that would appreciate his talent and play him? There are a lot of questions that should be answered.
Quote from: msbjim on January 12, 2012, 08:52:32 AM
It's really difficult to understand why we have so much trouble recruiting two or three good big men. We have to scrap and fight against taller teams every week. "Other" teams have good big men, why not Marquette? And, when we do recruit a big man he's not on the charts.
It's also hard to understand why Durley doesn't play much on his high school team. Can understand that he plays behind Ridley, but still, if has talent, he should deserve minutes. Why didn't he change to a high school that would appreciate his talent and play him? There are a lot of questions that should be answered.
Well, you are likely not going to get the answers you want...at least immediately. But at least you are asking questions instead of making projections.
Quote from: MUeagle05 on January 12, 2012, 08:45:12 AMWhat is his AAU productivity? There are several references to the fact that Durley played well in AAU but I've never seen any numbers to back it up.
http://www.houstonhoopstars.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59&Itemid=60
The Hoopst*rs website doesn't have averages or box scores, but they do give the stats of a couple players for each game. Durley has a number of double-doubles in there, and a number of other games where he's putting up 5 and 9, 12 and 6, 6 and 8, etc. The TexAgs website (http://v4.texags.com/Premium/Recruits/Basketball/2012/TexAgsTop) last year had him as the #13 recruit in Texas for his class.
I just find it baffling that people are so down on a guy that our coaching staff is clearly high enough on to give a scholarship to, and that was being recruited by other high majors. Durley seemed to generate more interest on the recruiting track than Gardner, Mbao, Roseboro, or Otule did. Are we suddenly so deep at the 5 that we will be set for the next 5 years at center? Did I miss that Otule was granted a 7th, 8th, and 9th year to go along with his 6th? Or that Gardner is going to be granted a waiver to stay in school for 8 years because his body type isn't well-suited for the next level? I just don't see any sense in not wanting Durley.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 12, 2012, 08:27:42 AM
Exactly...based on nothing but boxscores. Showing no faith in the coaching staff that wants to bring him here.
My faith in our coaching staff is off the charts and everyone around here knows that. If they think Durley is worth a shot I'm all for it, with the caveat (as stated by Brew) that scholarships are 1 year renewables. If he's Otule or Gardner, great. If he's Roseboro or Mbao both player and program move on - without the weeping and gnashing of teeth about "Buzz cutting", etc.
I readily admit I don't know what's going on down in Texas. Maybe all those DNPs are an attempt to motivate him and have the full support of our staff. But I'm nonetheless concerned that a 6'11", 270 lb athlete (former baseball player) and Big East recruit plays almost not at all on his high school team as a senior. Hope the red flags I'm seeing are meaningless - I'd love to be wrong on this.
Quote from: msbjim on January 12, 2012, 08:52:32 AM
It's also hard to understand why Durley doesn't play much on his high school team. Can understand that he plays behind Ridley, but still, if has talent, he should deserve minutes. Why didn't he change to a high school that would appreciate his talent and play him? There are a lot of questions that should be answered.
It's known that Durley is relatively new to the US (been here 3-4 years), maybe the family trusts the HS coach, maybe they didn't want their son bouncing around high schools/prep schools/basketball schools-academies. There's plenty of reasons why he is where he is. Let's just hope that his AAU coach and HS coach (is it the same guy?) have his best interests at heart.
I'd rather have a few Rod Grosse/Fasial Abraham/Greg Clausen/Jarrod Lovette's then a starting forward line-up of six-sixer's (and under).
I think durely is going to grow into a good college center, but he was hurt for a year (if memory serves) and is behind probably the top true center in the country on his HS team he is just not getting enough time on the floor. You can improve in practice but more times then not game speed is always faster and the applies to all levels of sport. Its hard to play 2 true center's, and Durley and Ridley are bigger then Otule and DG and they never play together.
Are you kidding me? Most teams would relish the thought of having Gardner, Otule and a project center in the mix. Imagine practice for these guys. There were years that the only competition we could find for our center or lack of one was Big Mac the announcer.