This was an evolution of the thread about Jae, but I moved it here to start a new thread to discuss the point guard play and where minutes should be going at the point:
Quote from: ErickJD08 on January 07, 2012, 07:33:50 PM
I can't believe after todays game, someone still thinks that Ble would run the point better than Junior. The offense is so stagnant when Junior is not in the game. He is not the most athletic on the team but his drives into the lane where actually effective. No one else did much when driving.
Sometimes I really feel like I must watch a different game. I saw just the opposite over the past couple of weeks. This was the first game Junior really asserted any kind of offense, and if he continues to do that I agree that he's the best option at the point right now. But up until halftime yesterday, I think the offense has been its most stagnant with Junior running the show. Everyone is all over Vander yesterday for the turnovers and lackluster drives, but through the first 20 minutes yesterday, he was the only player doing anything. Everyone else was just watching him drive and try to create offense. In the halfcourt, he was the only active player. And if thats a reflection of his running the offense, its more on Buzz than Vander. Buzz is the one that should be calling set plays, etc when he sees that happening. If the offense were more active with Junior than Vander (which I still don't believe is the case) its because Buzz is doing more of that - not because Junior is creating off the dribble, etc. Yesterday was the first time we've seen any aggressiveness out of Junior on offense whatsoever.
Add to that that Junior saw 30 minutes at the point vs LSU (59 pts) and 21 minutes against Vandy (with other 19 going to DWilson), and that he was off the floor for most of the big run in the first half vs Gtown (only finished with 18 minutes and DWilson had 3) and I just can't agree that the offense is more stagnant with Vander than Junior.
Didn't see a second yesterday, but the box score and the accounts say that Junior made the offense go in the second half. Against G-town, the last 13 minutes, he was on the court for 2. I don't think it is a coincidence that our offense did nothing the last 13 minutes. If anything, he is too deferential. But the offense definitely clicks best when he initiates it and gets into the lane.
He hit a three, caused fouls, scored layups, but played bad defense on several occasions.
Quote from: MUBurrow on January 08, 2012, 12:16:44 PM
This was an evolution of the thread about Jae, but I moved it here to start a new thread to discuss the point guard play and where minutes should be going at the point:
Sometimes I really feel like I must watch a different game. I saw just the opposite over the past couple of weeks. This was the first game Junior really asserted any kind of offense, and if he continues to do that I agree that he's the best option at the point right now. But up until halftime yesterday, I think the offense has been its most stagnant with Junior running the show. Everyone is all over Vander yesterday for the turnovers and lackluster drives, but through the first 20 minutes yesterday, he was the only player doing anything. Everyone else was just watching him drive and try to create offense. In the halfcourt, he was the only active player. And if thats a reflection of his running the offense, its more on Buzz than Vander. Buzz is the one that should be calling set plays, etc when he sees that happening. If the offense were more active with Junior than Vander (which I still don't believe is the case) its because Buzz is doing more of that - not because Junior is creating off the dribble, etc. Yesterday was the first time we've seen any aggressiveness out of Junior on offense whatsoever.
Add to that that Junior saw 30 minutes at the point vs LSU (59 pts) and 21 minutes against Vandy (with other 19 going to DWilson), and that he was off the floor for most of the big run in the first half vs Gtown (only finished with 18 minutes and DWilson had 3) and I just can't agree that the offense is more stagnant with Vander than Junior.
You are watching the same game. Running the offense isn't simply dribbling the ball past the time line. Running the offense is not simply driving to the rim. When Junior is in, for some reason, the other players knew what they were doing. The right guy was setting the screen. Junior penetrated and created. When junior wasn't in the game, I saw two guys looking to set the screen and no one driving and disorganization. Buzz himself says that the offense runs best when junior is in. Above all, Blue is a bad decision maker. He had 3 TOs in his first five passes. How is it that Junior was able to drive more effectively than Blue even though taller, longer, and more athletic?
Quote from: ErickJD08 on January 08, 2012, 04:30:26 PM
Running the offense isn't simply dribbling the ball past the time line. Running the offense is not simply driving to the rim. When Junior is in, for some reason, the other players knew what they were doing.
But then I question how much of that is Junior and how much of that is Buzz possibly taking on a different role depending on which PG is running the show. If "the other guys know what theyre doing" when Junior is in, its because there are more set plays being called, not because Junior imbues them with an existential sense of purpose. Why aren't similar sets being called with Vander in? Is it because Buzz takes a more active role with Junior in? Is it because the PG has sole responsibility for that type of thing? If so I would question why and whether our best option might be to have the coaching staff take a more active role in the halfcourt offense with Vander in. But I'll be the first to admit I'm not educated enough about who calls the plays/sets, etc.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on January 08, 2012, 04:30:26 PM
Above all, Blue is a bad decision maker. He had 3 TOs in his first five passes.
Also, I'm really sick of hearing about Blue's TOs in his first 5 passes. If thats the case, he didnt have any in his next 20 mins+, so I dont understand the significance. Its about as relevant as saying that since Junior bobbled the dribble with under a minute to play, he can't handle the rock.
Quote from: MUBurrow on January 08, 2012, 05:55:18 PM
Also, I'm really sick of hearing about Blue's TOs in his first 5 passes. If thats the case, he didnt have any in his next 20 mins+, so I dont understand the significance. Its about as relevant as saying that since Junior bobbled the dribble with under a minute to play, he can't handle the rock.
+1. Why do posters keep bringing up "3TO in first 5 passes" over and over again without mentioning that he also only had 3TO in the whole game?! If you're going to use that as evidence that he's a worse PG than Junior, why not also point out that he had less minutes, same total assists, 1 less point, more rebounds, better FG% and same TO as Jurnior. I think it's unfair to both players to not list all the statistics. Do stats tell the whole story? - no, of course not. But don't list one that supports your argument and ignore the others.
People are all watching the same game. They just look at different things. Also, some people have decided that certain players suck or are awesome and that clouds their judgement. My thoughts on the two (Blue and JC):
Blue long term can be a great point guard. Right now he makes a few bad decisions and doesn't quite know the proper driving lanes or when to pull back. Against Syracuse he really excelled and showed what long term potentials could be.
Junior is a floor general. He directs people, when they aren't in the right place he will often angrily gesture for them to reset. He defers to much on offensive and needs to be more aggressive like against Syr (he did it against LSU too, but couldn't quite get the rolls at the rim). Lately he has been making an occasional stupid pass. If you watch this is often, because he gets flustered with people not being where they are suppose to be. Still his fault though.
I think as we settle into life without Otule we will see Junior and others step up their games. Right now Vander is a good backup pg, that can also play the 2 or 3.
Blue should have been developed at PG from day 1----he's much better from on high than from a wing position, is an exceptional passer, and in transition has John Wall type skills.
A little stiff when dribbling the ball in the half court, but that could have been tweaked out of him by now.
I'm glad to see Blue getting more of a run at the point. I think Buzz has a love affair with Cadougan, and have no doubt that he will get the lion's share of minutes at the point over the next two years. But having Blue here for that year beyond gives me a lot more optimism for this team. He's able to learn the role as he swings between the 1 and 2 (even though he's probably defending as a 3) and could honestly be one of the best points in the country as a senior.
While he definitely lacks the ideal shooting skills, he's trending in the right direction. He's shooting just under 30% from 3 this year. Much better than his 16% a year ago, and he's already hit more threes this season than all of last season. He's also not afraid to take the crucial three, and it often seems that if he's willing to pick his spots (against Wisconsin, Syracuse) rather than just throwing them up, he can hit the crucial shot. His overall FG% has also improved to over 42%. If he can keep trending up and be hitting 35% from 3 and 45% overall by his senior year, that would be just fine. And as much-maligned as his free throws are, he's hitting over 62% this year. If he can keep improving that up to 70% as a senior, he could be a solid all-around offensive player. I know that 70% isn't close to perfect, but considering we survived Dominic James, I think it'd be just fine.
Outside of scoring, he has a good A/T ratio, is a tremendous rebounding guard, and could be that JFB type that can lock down anyone from the 1-3 positions. If Vander is even a 12 ppg player by his senior year, his other attributes could make him all-Big East material. I'm glad to see him being slowly groomed to this role. While I agree here with Murf that it should have started a bit sooner, we really don't need him to run the show until 2013-14, so there's time for that to come along.