Kinda odd timing this late into the coaching carousel. SLU went 20-13 last season and they're opening a new arena in '08.
Wonder if there was more here than met the eye.
had to be the timing is just terrible.
Now Murff can start the Sodenburg to Marquette rumor he always wanted.
You kind of have to feel sorry for the guy. He should still be coaching at WI
I think that firing is a bit harsh. When has SLU ever been able to get a coach who knew what he was doing since what's his face retired (old dude who had been there forever)
Quote from: Toughmover1016 on April 17, 2007, 12:55:06 PM
I think that firing is a bit harsh. When has SLU ever been able to get a coach who knew what he was doing since what's his face retired (old dude who had been there forever)
You mean Spoonhour? He won mostly with Rich Grawer's players.
Lorenzo Romar seemed to know what he was doing at Pepperdine, UCLA, Washington.....did he simply forget at SLU? SLU's "issues" go to its President, and run deeper than just its coach. Now, with a new AD, new facilities on the way, etc...it is possible for SLU to turn the corner. Possible.
What conference do they play in? Is it still C-USA or did they switch over to the A-10?
A-10
This must be an April fool's joke. Murf's favorite coach got fired from the basketball hotbed of SLU? Shocking. Just shocking.
I like Soderberg. He bought into the whole St. Louis U, Jesuit thing. Quality guy. Great defensive mind. I'm sorry to see him go but I think it came down to an inablility to recruit and the University investing mega bucks in a new arena. They want to fill it. He only has two guys coming this year. Those are the two I feel the most sorry for. I think they signed letters of intent two or three days ago. If so, not a very impressive move by SLU!
From a tactition point of view, Soderburg is a damn good coach and 20 & 13 the first 20 game win season since 1998. He had only 3 quality players that could have made most teams rotations.
Recruiting did Brad in-----although Romar didn't do any better recruiting when he was at SLU----but look at him now!
Murff, I doubt that Brad will do any better at his nex stop; unless he goes to a Div II or III team (which is probably very likely?). Recruiting simply needs to be a strong point for a Div I coach.
Hey, didn't Soderberg go to Northern Iowa from UW? If so, he recruited that class of white kids that all looked like they were 8th graders, had a 6'4" kid jump center, and took Ga Tech (with their red-haired afro wearing 7 footer) to the last seconds in the regionals! Soderberg was already at SLU, but those were his recruits..., weren't they?
Quote from: augoman on April 18, 2007, 11:50:38 PM
Hey, didn't Soderberg go to Northern Iowa from UW? If so, he recruited that class of white kids that all looked like they were 8th graders, had a 6'4" kid jump center, and took Ga Tech (with their red-haired afro wearing 7 footer) to the last seconds in the regionals! Soderberg was already at SLU, but those were his recruits..., weren't they?
Nope.
Brad went to SLU from MAdison where he spent 1 year as head coach and several as assistant. He was an assistant under Romar at SLU for one year then head coach when Romar left for U of Washignton.
He previously many years ago was head coach at Loras college in Iowa in the 90's and also head coach at South Dakota St.
He needs to learn some PR lessons - maybe Tom could put him under his wing.
Quote(with their red-haired afro wearing 7 footer)
That would be the one and only Luke Schenser.
Quote from: mviale on April 19, 2007, 10:45:54 PM
He needs to learn some PR lessons - maybe Tom could put him under his wing.
SLU doens't have the budget to help any coach's PR skills.
Nuke em------Romar couldn't recruit at SLU either-----but he goes out to Washington and signs 4 or 5 star guys left and right. Have to believe it's the institution, it's facilities, very high entry standards and maybe other things that inhibit recruiting at SLU!
Quote from: Murffieus on April 20, 2007, 11:41:48 AM
Nuke em------Romar couldn't recruit at SLU either-----but he goes out to Washington and signs 4 or 5 star guys left and right. Have to believe it's the institution, it's facilities, very high entry standards and maybe other things that inhibit recruiting at SLU!
SLU's entry standards are the same as Marquette's and many other schools. No more stringent.
Keep guessing Murf.
Soderberg failed at many aspects of the program. SLU does also have other issues and problems, but to lay no blame on Soderberg would not be accurate or true.
I'm not guessing----I'm just looking for reasons why Romar, his predeccor, and Soderberg haven't been able to recruit there.
BTW----the standards for general admission may be the same-----but does MU bend those standards more than SLU does to get certain people in there?
Quote from: Murffieus on April 20, 2007, 03:02:04 PM
I'm not guessing----I'm just looking for reasons why Romar, his predeccor, and Soderberg haven't been able to recruit there.
BTW----the standards for general admission may be the same-----but does MU bend those standards more than SLU does to get certain people in there?
Nobody can know if MU "bends it's standards more than SLU", and to even ask the question is wildly speculative and doesn't really answer the question on why Brad didn't do so well there.
Brad kinda reminds me of Mike Deane. No doubt the guy knows some x and o's, but recruiting seems to be a big challenge for him. He might become a good coach someday, but right now he's not John Wooden.
People talk so often about coaches who can do more with less. Many can't, some can....Brad is simply one who can't.
Brad was solid at bench coaching at SLU, but far from very good, especially in game adjustments. His bench coaching is vastly overrated by Murf. He isn't bad. Murf paints the picture that Brad is a great x's and o's coach and this simply is not true. He paints the picture that Brad's only shortcoming is recruiting, which is also not correct. And, Murf also devalues the recruiting aspect of the job, placing more respect for coaches on x's and o's than recruiting, when both are very important to succeed.
Soderberg recruited poorly. He routinely lost to inferior talented teams, of which SLU had better recruits. He was very stubborn and resistant to change. He received criticism for not playing any incoming Freshman and instead playing a walk-on for crucial long minutes of a game this year in a close loss.
He never warmed to anyone in the SLU booster community, attendance was down during his tenure. He made PR mistakes and public speaking mistakes with media. He had a slow on the job learning curve.
SLU itself has plenty of their own issues as a school with a hoops program. These are separate to Brad's issues as a coach.
Romar was at SLU three years and left for his alma mater, Brad was on campus for six years......
It is a pointless subject because Murf isn't going to change his position on the subject despite only watching part of one SLU game on television all season when they played more than 30 to discuss Soderberg's on court coaching.
Who would you rather have, a great x's and o's coach who can't recruit, or a great recruiter who can't coach?
Quote from: MonsterWebWarrior on April 20, 2007, 05:16:44 PM
Who would you rather have, a great x's and o's coach who can't recruit, or a great recruiter who can't coach?
Unfortunately to this point, in SLU's case, Soderberg had been neither.
Obviously I would want both, because I don't believe it has to be either/or.
Quote from: MonsterWebWarrior on April 20, 2007, 05:16:44 PM
Who would you rather have, a great x's and o's coach who can't recruit, or a great recruiter who can't coach?
Hopefully both.
You need to bring in the talent, and then have the ability to get the most out of that talent. I think player development is also part of that. X and O's are really important, but getting players to consistantly perform and outperform their normal abilities is very important.
As I said before, I like Soderberg. I think he did a good job at SLU given the resources. Clearly, recruiting was not his strength and as some have pointed out, interest and attendance had dropped. I'm a season ticket holder and went to few games. However, I wish they'd given him till the new stadium was completed. That facility will really aid in recruiting.
Here's the word I've heard around the community. Soderberg was a Father Biondi victim. Biondi was obsessed with getting TIF tax credits (worth about $8 million) for the stadium from the State and wasn't going to do anything with the program until he knew about the credits. Biondi, fired Soderberg the day after the Missouri Supreme Court ruled that SLU could have the credits, essentially holding, in agreement with the position of SLU, that tax credits to a Catholic school were not violative of the Missouri Constitution because SLU really wasn't a Catholic school. Some people may agree with that finding anyway! :) Biondi fired Soderberg the next day at the behest of the major contributor for the new stadium, who, ironically, is supposed to be real close to Kevin O'Neil. Can you imagine O'Neil and Biondi! Soderberg hasn't commented. BTW, Majerus is one of the names being thrown around for the job and one report says he's spoken to Biondi.
I know Majerus mentioned health issues for backing out of the USC job but if he takes the SLU position it might confirm that he's addicted to midwest living...
SLU, Xavier, Dayton, Depaul, Creighton, & Marquette are all very similar in terms of venue, basketball history and student population. Guess who had risen to the top in the last 10 years - Marquette. The difference is Tom Crean.
Quote from: mviale on April 21, 2007, 02:20:49 PM
SLU, Xavier, Dayton, Depaul, Creighton, & Marquette are all very similar in terms of venue, basketball history and student population. Guess who had risen to the top in the last 10 years - Marquette. The difference is Tom Crean.
Each place is different.
First, it is debatable whether Marquette has had more success than Xavier who has had an elite 8 appearance and other NCAA wins in that stretch.
Xavier competes with UC in the same city, other schools don't have that in the list.
SLU has had outdated facilities, and tiny hoops budget and less than half of the employees of MU's Athletic Dept.
Differences in conference affiliations.
All of those schools are not on equal playing fields, by a long shot.
Marquette has done well to become an almost annual NCAA team in the past 6 years or so. Entering the Big East sets them apart from the other schools going forward. Marquette has a huge hoops budget nowadays and therefore pressure is and should be extremely high on Crean to now move Marquette from the almost annual NCAA team....to a team that also competes for Big East Titles, and wins multiple NCAA games etc..much more often in future years. Everything to this point has been so far so good. But obviously he will need to step up the results, particularly in post-season, moving forward to appease the masses.
Tom Crean has done a lot, but he has had the support of Wild, Cords, boosters, money and free reign to do a lot of things that wouldn't necessarily happen at other places.
If the Warriors have "risen to the top" as you proclaim, it's due to the commitment of the University's administration to the men's basketball program. Crean is an intregal part of Marquette's commitment, but if TC left or was let go, I am convinced this program goes forward with the same or a super-charged version of MU's commitment to build an elite program once again.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 21, 2007, 06:03:01 PM
If the Warriors have "risen to the top" as you proclaim, it's due to the commitment of the University's administration to the men's basketball program. Crean is an intregal part of Marquette's commitment, but if TC left or was let go, I am convinced this program goes forward with the same or a super-charged version of MU's commitment to build an elite program once again.
But there is ZERO guarantee that the next coach can simply come in and do well, even if a great commitment is there. People who think Marquette can just pluck anyone and have great success are unrealistic imo. And people who think Crean is merely a small part of the process would be wrong too. He's been a big part of the process. He has been learning on the job of how to run a program. It is a roll of the dice and often times it doesn't work out out. Thankfully Marquette won't have to deal with that in the near future.
In today's instant gratification society, and what have you done for me lately.....MU is alive and well and doing just fine.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 21, 2007, 06:03:01 PM
If the Warriors have "risen to the top" as you proclaim, it's due to the commitment of the University's administration to the men's basketball program. Crean is an intregal part of Marquette's commitment, but if TC left or was let go, I am convinced this program goes forward with the same or a super-charged version of MU's commitment to build an elite program once again.
I actually agree with most of what you say! (shocking, I know)
#1 it is pretty clear that the University has made a commitment to the hoops program, and they are reaping the benefits of having a nationally ranked team (admissions, applications, PR, donations, etc.)
#2 Crean is an intergral part of this, and in a way I think he got the ball rolling. The board of Trustees and the higher ups that run MU are now realizing that any $ that they spend on basketball will come back to them in terms of overall marketing and revenue (see above). Before Crean, I don't think the people running MU realized how important hoops could be to MU. Crean wasn't a big "splashy" hire, he was a top assistant who has really help build the MU program.
#3 (this is where I disagree) I'm not sold on the fact that MU could replace Crean and keep the ball rolling. I definately think it is possible to do so, I'm just not sure that it is as easy as it seems. If it was so easy, a lot of schools (Georgetown, SJU, Villinova, NC State Michigan, Minnesota etc) wouldn't have had such long or dramatic drop-offs after they had great success. They could have just replaced the coach and kept moving forward.
I'm not sure if MU will have a drop-off or not, but I just don't think its easy to replace Coach Crean.
If you cant sell it, it doesnt happen. Crean sold it whether you like his coaching skilz or not.