If you were in Williams' position and you walk into a new office and see the money Buzz is making what would you set your expectations at?
I'd say NCAA every year and top half finishes in the BE at minimum.
Yes, sounds reasonable. I think that should be the expectations of everyone on this board as well. However, even hall of fame coaches every couple of years don't make the NCAAs. Teams have down years depending on the talent and maturity level of a given team.
Solid on and off the court.
Larry Williams needs to spend more time worrying about our conference than Buzz.
Quote from: Stone Cold on January 07, 2012, 10:46:50 AM
If you were in Williams' position and you walk into a new office and see the money Buzz is making what would you set your expectations at?
I'd say NCAA every year and top half finishes in the BE at minimum.
TC would have been booted right quick.
Quote from: marqptm on January 07, 2012, 11:15:57 AM
TC would have been booted right quick.
TC is having a banner season at IU. They are NCAA bound and likely a high seed.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 07, 2012, 12:08:30 PM
TC is having a banner season at IU. They are NCAA bound and likely a high seed.
True. But PTM's comment still holds true.
Quote from: Stone Cold on January 07, 2012, 10:46:50 AM
If you were in Williams' position and you walk into a new office and see the money Buzz is making what would you set your expectations at?
I'd say NCAA every year and top half finishes in the BE at minimum.
That would have been for the last guy. We upgraded, remember?
Knowing that, I'd like to see this slide out of the top 5 finishes to end. We've regressed each season positionally. Fix it. And, given that an NCAA berth is expected, I'd like to see an Sweet Sixteen/Elite Eight run every third season.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 07, 2012, 12:08:30 PM
TC is having a banner season at IU. They are NCAA bound and likely a high seed.
What does that have to do with TC's performance at MU? That is what the poster was commenting on.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 07, 2012, 12:08:30 PM
TC is having a banner season at IU. They are NCAA bound and likely a high seed.
However, he went to the NIT more than the NCAA at Marquette.
I agree Crean probably got more leeway then should have been given, toward the latter years. He built up A TON of cred with the FF run though. But he was a tremendous marketer of his program and attendance was very good, key wins usually at home in conference, etc.
Think Crean is a very good coach but had his limitations in recruiting. Too bad MU didn't have a funnel Chicago AAU program that Crean could send funds to through the hiring of the HC's son.
Think things like ticket sales, etc. would also weigh into Williams' decision.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 07, 2012, 12:08:30 PM
TC is having a banner season at IU. They are NCAA bound and likely a high seed.
...and completely RIPE to get bounced by a solid lower seeded team in round 1 or 2. BOOK IT. IU is sooooo overrated.
Make the NCAA every year huh? wow...get ready to fire Jamie Dixon and Jay Wright. Lets see Boeheim missed the tourny at least twice in the last 7 or 8 years. Ditto for Calhoun.
Boosters pay most of his salary so I doubt that will be much of a factor.
Play good ball, make the tourny most years, graduate the players, and keep attendance in the top 20 in the country.
Quote from: lab_warrior on January 07, 2012, 01:35:48 PM
...and completely RIPE to get bounced by a solid lower seeded team in round 1 or 2. BOOK IT. IU is sooooo overrated.
Not sure.
They've beaten two likely #1 seeds.
I'd love to be a fan of an 'overrated' team that accomplished those wins.
Jamie Dixon has never not been to the NCAA's. If Buzz wins a NC like Boeheim I'll give him a lot of passes.
But I could see missing a NCAA every 5th or 6th year, not every 3 years, I think that is reasonable.
Williams did hire Buzz and Buzz has a longterm contract, so I do not think he worries about how Buzz does on the court. He would be concerned with anything that happens of the court.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 07, 2012, 01:38:38 PM
Not sure.
They've beaten two likely #1 seeds.
I'd love to be a fan of an 'overrated' team that accomplished those wins.
Without looking at the numbers, my impression was Crean has always been very good at locking down home advantage, not so much in neutral court venues.
Quote from: bilsu on January 07, 2012, 01:46:13 PM
Williams did hire Buzz and Buzz has a longterm contract, so I do not think he worries about how Buzz does on the court. He would be concerned with anything that happens of the court.
Thought Buzz was a year to year kinda guy. Not sure I want my Athletic Director to not be concerned with athletic performance at Marquette.
That MU wins the BE in football
yeah but Dixon could easily miss this year......should he be fired if he does? Its a ridiculous standard.....
Everybody misses the tournament from time to time....Bo Ryan and Tom Izzo excluded.
I agree...I'll rephrase, consistent NCAA appearances with missing around 1 out of every 5 years would be my standards.
Quote from: MuMark on January 07, 2012, 01:36:52 PM
Make the NCAA every year huh? wow...get ready to fire Jamie Dixon and Jay Wright. Lets see Boeheim missed the tourny at least twice in the last 7 or 8 years. Ditto for Calhoun.
Boosters pay most of his salary so I doubt that will be much of a factor.
Play good ball, make the tourny most years, graduate the players, and keep attendance in the top 20 in the country.
+1
We've made 6 tourneys in a row, a very nice run. Also, its bound to end sometime soon. I know there are some here that will completely freak out when that happens, but I don't see it as a big deal. Even the best programs have a year that's down (for various reasons). The question becomes, will MU rebound and be in the tourney that next season. If not, that's when I will become concerned about the program.
Question to Golden Avalanche... You know MU has only been to three Sweet 16s since Al left. So, do you really think that an expectation of a Sweet 16 or better 1 out of every 3 years is realistic for MU? Past history, wouldn't indicate it.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 07, 2012, 01:38:38 PM
Not sure.
They've beaten two likely #1 seeds.
I'd love to be a fan of an 'overrated' team that accomplished those wins.
Let's see what happens away from Bloomington. They got a sure 5 losses on the road coming up and at least one or two losses at home.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 07, 2012, 02:03:04 PM
+1
We've made 6 tourneys in a row, a very nice run. Also, its bound to end sometime soon. I know there are some here that will completely freak out when that happens, but I don't see it as a big deal. Even the best programs have a year that's down (for various reasons). The question becomes, will MU rebound and be in the tourney that next season. If not, that's when I will become concerned about the program.
Question to Golden Avalanche... You know MU has only been to three Sweet 16s since Al left. So, do you really think that an expectation of a Sweet 16 or better 1 out of every 3 years is realistic for MU? Past history, wouldn't indicate it.
We never paid our head coaches top 10-15 money until recently though. Expectations should be congruous to salary, imo.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 07, 2012, 01:38:38 PM
Not sure.
They've beaten two likely #1 seeds.
I'd love to be a fan of an 'overrated' team that accomplished those wins.
Check Crean's record away from home. We have a better road win and two better neutral court wins than he does. Having said that, he is doing what he needed to do. He is locking down the best in-state talent.
Quote from: tower912 on January 07, 2012, 02:43:01 PM
Check Crean's record away from home. We have a better road win and two better neutral court wins than he does. Having said that, he is doing what he needed to do. He is locking down the best in-state talent.
Why do you compare IU to MU in a discussion of whether the Hoosiers are overrated?
Why do you go out of your way to be a MU hating d-bag? We all have our hangups.
Quote from: tower912 on January 07, 2012, 03:28:22 PM
Why do you go out of your way to be a MU hating d-bag? We all have our hangups.
+1
Quote from: tower912 on January 07, 2012, 03:28:22 PM
Why do you go out of your way to be a MU hating d-bag? We all have our hangups.
It's fair to take out your misdirected frustration on me. I don't blame you after watching this for 43 minutes.
Read all of my posts. All of them. Then come up with an opinion.
Quote from: Stone Cold on January 07, 2012, 02:35:58 PM
We never paid our head coaches top 10-15 money until recently though. Expectations should be congruous to salary, imo.
True, but I don't think salary equates 100% to expectations... Top 15 salary, top 15 program.
In college basketball, salary seems to be driven more by outside factors, than internal goals. Let's face it, Buzz is getting paid so much because other teams wanted him this past spring and MU had some donors with the means to pay him. As long as other teams want Buzz, or any MU coach for that matter, MU will probably have to overpaid him, compared to other top programs.
IMO, it comes down to recruiting, and MU is more difficult program to recruit to. As long as that's true (I don't foresee that changing), MU will have to provide a very competitive salary to keep coaches.
Quote from: marqptm on January 07, 2012, 12:27:40 PM
However, he went to the NIT more than the NCAA at Marquette.
Incorrect. Not even close actually. Let's keep facts ahead of emotional hatred.
5 NCAA bids for TC at MU
3 NIT bids for TC at MU
If TC hadn't left when he did, it would have been 6 easily and probably more
Quote from: marqptm on January 07, 2012, 02:10:50 PM
Let's see what happens away from Bloomington. They got a sure 5 losses on the road coming up and at least one or two losses at home.
You could be right, then again that would make them 12-6 in the Big Ten or 11-7. Either way, that's a very good season in the toughest league in the country this season.
They have wins at NC State, at Evansville, and beat Notre Dame on a neutral court. They've played the #1 and #2 teams already and won both. My suspicions are they split with Purdue (rivalry), lose at OSU, probably lose either at Wisconsin, Michigan or somewhere else. At most, they will have 1 home loss. They are a good team.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 07, 2012, 03:48:46 PM
It's fair to take out your misdirected frustration on me. I don't blame you after watching this for 43 minutes.
Read all of my posts. All of them. Then come up with an opinion.
I listened to 30 seconds of the game, when we were down 18-12. I spent the rest of the afternoon with my family and no idea of the outcome of the game until around 8:30 EST. I regret my response to you, but I HAVE been reading all of your posts and they are what led me to my juvenile hair trigger reaction. Shouldn't have broken my cardinal rule of not posting hair trigger.
Quote from: bilsu on January 07, 2012, 01:46:13 PM
Williams did hire Buzz and Buzz has a longterm contract, so I do not think he worries about how Buzz does on the court. He would be concerned with anything that happens of the court.
Excuse me, if I'm wrong, but weren't both of those done before Williams got hired?
Quote from: tower912 on January 07, 2012, 10:10:16 PM
I listened to 30 seconds of the game, when we were down 18-12. I spent the rest of the afternoon with my family and no idea of the outcome of the game until around 8:30 EST. I regret my response to you, but I HAVE been reading all of your posts and they are what led me to my juvenile hair trigger reaction. Shouldn't have broken my cardinal rule of not posting hair trigger.
Highly doubt you read ALL of my posts. But, still, your juvenile reaction remains.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on January 07, 2012, 08:13:28 PM
Incorrect. Not even close actually. Let's keep facts ahead of emotional hatred.
5 NCAA bids for TC at MU
3 NIT bids for TC at MU
If TC hadn't left when he did, it would have been 6 easily and probably more
No emotional hatred, just got a little confused. I always figured his NIT/NCAA were closer to even since we couldn't even make the NIT in 2000, that's a double negative in my book.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 08, 2012, 09:37:33 AM
Highly doubt you read ALL of my posts. But, still, your juvenile reaction remains.
Says the guy who takes every opportunity to trash the team when times are tough. Real mature of you.
Based on your post, my juvenile reaction, while regrettable, was accurate. Thanks for reinforcing.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 08, 2012, 11:18:49 AM
Says the guy who takes every opportunity to trash the team when times are tough. Real mature of you.
+ infinity!
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 08, 2012, 11:18:49 AM
Says the guy who takes every opportunity to trash the team when times are tough. Real mature of you.
This simply isn't true regarding every opportunity. Read through my ledger and you'll see there's even amount of praise and criticism.
Let's be honest, all you remember is the last day. Hardly enough to paint a full picture.