Having two of the top freshman point guards (Branch and Wilson) on our roster would be HUGE for the development of this team. They would push each other to the best of their abilities. I really hope Buzz is pushing hard for him, but it doesn't seem like thats the case. Maybe because of scholarships?
According to CBS Jeff Goodman, Jerome Branch also said that Marquette is still in the equation for his son, Texas A&M transfer Jamal Branch.
He has scheduled visits at St. Johns and Maryland in the next two weeks I really hope Buzz makes a strong push for him as I believe he would strive in our uptempo offense. He was also rated the number 1 defender in the freshman class and that is definitely something we need. What are your thoughts?
Sign him. Oversign him. The cream rises to the top! If you don't fit, you don't fit. I understand people don't like this approach, but Buzz has been fairly successful at it. C'mon Jamal!
nm
Typically stay away from the board fro 2-3 days after an MU loss as the board is heavily populated by looney tunes and the collected basketball IQ of the board becomes a negative number.
basketball ball games are won on the defensive end since the days of NAismith...nothing has changed since or will.
the lunatic fringe can talk about timeouts and every other stupid idea that they have. idiots have ideas too.
bottom line is if we get one "turkey" in the second half we win....we got none.
Back to the topic....if anyone has paid attention to VAnder Blue at the point the last few games...he is the best PG on the roster.
IMO, the starting lineup wil in short order have a back court of Blue, DJO, and MAyo supplemented byt a 2 man combo of jwil, jae, and devante. Dont need a PG ...blue is the answer and has been exceptional.
Still doesn't solve the head scratcher of top point guard and Wilson in the same sentence.
I think Buzz has to consider how this effects recruiting down the road. By this I mean does taking Branch mean giving up on Tate or some other point guard he is after. Part of it of course is evaluating how good your chances are of landing someone you are recruiting. Taking Branch, except for being a practice player, does not help us this year or first semester of next year.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on January 06, 2012, 01:00:15 PM
Back to the topic....if anyone has paid attention to VAnder Blue at the point the last few games...he is the best PG on the roster.
IMO, the starting lineup wil in short order have a back court of Blue, DJO, and MAyo supplemented byt a 2 man combo of jwil, jae, and devante. Dont need a PG ...blue is the answer and has been exceptional.
+1
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 06, 2012, 01:01:36 PM
Still doesn't solve the head scratcher of top point guard and Wilson in the same sentence.
I think Wilson should get a free pass on this board for the rest of his career, because of the way he stepped up against UW. Besides that, while he is not an all-american, he is a hugh step up from a lot of point guards Crean recruited who could not even bring the ball up the court. I can think of a couple of Crean teams that Wilson would have made a hugh difference on.
Quote from: socrplar125 on January 06, 2012, 01:05:33 PM
+1
PG - Vander
SG- DJO
SF- Jamil Wilson
PF- Crowder
c- Gardner.
This should be the lineup to start and end games.
Quote from: Clarence on January 06, 2012, 01:44:55 PM
PG - Vander
SG- DJO
SF- Jamil Wilson
PF- Crowder
c- Gardner.
This should be the lineup to start and end games.
If that is the starting lineup, the tallest guys off the bench are Anderson and Jones. Not sure I love this - maybe to end a game if height is needed.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on January 06, 2012, 01:00:15 PM
Typically stay away from the board fro 2-3 days after an MU loss as the board is heavily populated by looney tunes and the collected basketball IQ of the board becomes a negative number.
basketball ball games are won on the defensive end since the days of NAismith...nothing has changed since or will.
the lunatic fringe can talk about timeouts and every other stupid idea that they have. idiots have ideas too.
bottom line is if we get one "turkey" in the second half we win....we got none.
Back to the topic....if anyone has paid attention to VAnder Blue at the point the last few games...he is the best PG on the roster.
IMO, the starting lineup wil in short order have a back court of Blue, DJO, and MAyo supplemented byt a 2 man combo of jwil, jae, and devante. Dont need a PG ...blue is the answer and has been exceptional.
I have some more advice, take two more weeks off then quit.
I'm ok with you arguing that he's the best PG on the roster but to say he's been exceptional is ridiculous.
Quote from: Clarence on January 06, 2012, 01:44:55 PM
PG - Vander
SG- DJO
SF- Jamil Wilson
PF- Crowder
c- Gardner.
This should be the lineup to start and end games.
You could possibly end the game with that line-up, but you can't start it. Wilson and Gardner have to sub for each other in the 1st half due to fouls.
Line-up wise, I'd go with these guys to start:
Blue
Mayo
DJO
Jae
J. Wilson
It's time for Vander to start at PG. It gets Mayo on the floor more and allows Vander to play up-top on offense, which is much better fit for him than playing the wing. Also, Junior's not doing too much to justify starting and playing major minutes.
Bench wise: Gardner, Junior & Anderson or Jones (which ever guy can make a contribution). I like Gardner coming off the bench more than starting, but his minutes need to be capped at 25. Therefore, either Jones or Anderson need to play a bit, especially when foul trouble hits. DG can't play 31 minutes a night like he did against GT.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 06, 2012, 02:04:41 PM
You could possibly end the game with that line-up, but you can't start it. Wilson and Gardner have to sub for each other in the 1st half due to fouls.
Line-up wise, I'd go with these guys to start:
Blue
Mayo
DJO
Jae
J. Wilson
It's time for Vander to start at PG. It gets Mayo on the floor more and allows Vander to play up-top on offense, which is much better fit for him than playing the wing. Also, Junior's not doing too much to justify starting and playing major minutes.
Bench wise: Gardner, Junior & Anderson or Jones (which ever guy can make a contribution). I like Gardner coming off the bench more than starting, but his minutes need to be capped at 25. Therefore, either Jones or Anderson need to play a bit, especially when foul trouble hits. DG can't play 31 minutes a night like he did against GT.
I like Mayo off the bench in case DJO is struggling or we need some offense. I would also love to see Anderson fill the Joe Fulce role from a year ago, Energy and boards off the bench.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on January 06, 2012, 01:58:18 PM
I have some more advice, take two more weeks off then quit.
I'm ok with you arguing that he's the best PG on the roster but to say he's been exceptional is ridiculous.
+1.
Finding a home for the guy does not make him exceptional.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on January 06, 2012, 01:00:15 PM
Back to the topic....if anyone has paid attention to VAnder Blue at the point the last few games...he is the best PG on the roster.
IMO, the starting lineup wil in short order have a back court of Blue, DJO, and MAyo supplemented byt a 2 man combo of jwil, jae, and devante. Dont need a PG ...blue is the answer and has been exceptional.
Exceptional? You must have low expectations.
Quote from: Clarence on January 06, 2012, 02:14:57 PM
I like Mayo off the bench in case DJO is struggling or we need some offense. I would also love to see Anderson fill the Joe Fulce role from a year ago, Energy and boards off the bench.
I think having Mayo on the floor helps DJO. DJO is much more effective when he is a spot-up shooter than a driver. With Mayo on the floor with him, it takes some pressure off him to create. Also, it doesn't allow the defense to key as easily on him.
I agree with your points on Anderson.
Vander has been good handling the ball, but to call his game exceptional is a bit of overstatement. He cannot and will not shoot from outside 3 feet and is not the lockdown defender people think he is. What he is is a much better defender than Junior. Does anyone feel confident with Vander protecting the ball in the final seconds, then going to the line? I don't. Sign Branch and worry about the ramifications later. I would be more than shocked if all the people we think we will have next year are on campus in September.
Signing Branch is a no brainer at this point.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on January 06, 2012, 01:00:15 PM
Typically stay away from the board fro 2-3 days after an MU loss as the board is heavily populated by looney tunes and the collected basketball IQ of the board becomes a negative number.
Weren't you the one that said Junior is our PG and should be, thus your username? Exactly what looney tunes or basketball IQ were you using in those proclamations.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on January 06, 2012, 01:00:15 PM
Back to the topic....if anyone has paid attention to VAnder Blue at the point the last few games...he is the best PG on the roster.
+1
Buzz has been hailed here as a great recruiter, but he has some guys on the team right now that seem to be out of their league at key positions. Still waiting for Jamil Wilson to breakthrough. Jones receives no playing time and must not have any confidence based on his shooting numbers. Vander is not a quality 2 or 3, but could be a very serviceable 1. No outside shooters other than DJO.
If Branch wants to come, sign him. Need stronger PG play, especially on defense.
Quote from: ecompt on January 06, 2012, 02:40:29 PM
Vander has been good handling the ball, but to call his game exceptional is a bit of overstatement. He cannot and will not shoot from outside 3 feet and is not the lockdown defender people think he is. What he is is a much better defender than Junior. Does anyone feel confident with Vander protecting the ball in the final seconds, then going to the line? I don't. Sign Branch and worry about the ramifications later. I would be more than shocked if all the people we think we will have next year are on campus in September.
I think Vander is our best perimeter defender. I also know that in a very limited number of FT's (7), Branch has made 3 (47%), so I don't see anything to make me feel like he would be a better defender or FT shooter than Vander.
I agree Vander is the best PG on the roster (both offensively and defensively), and would love to see him fill that role for this team. I also feel like that's his best position if he has a chance at playing in the NBA...certainly has all the athleticism, height, etc. he needs.
That said, I'd be absolutely thrilled to see him at MU.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on January 06, 2012, 03:41:47 PM
Buzz has been hailed here as a great recruiter, but he has some guys on the team right now that seem to be out of their league at key positions. Still waiting for Jamil Wilson to breakthrough. Jones receives no playing time and must not have any confidence based on his shooting numbers. Vander is not a quality 2 or 3, but could be a very serviceable 1. No outside shooters other than DJO.
If Branch wants to come, sign him. Need stronger PG play, especially on defense.
I agree that we have players out of position, and I think Buzz would agree as well. I think he'd like to play Vander at the point, but he needs him to be able to rebound (offensively especially) so the PG position is an issue. I also think Vander is a quality 2 or 3, especially when he plays his game, which I thought he did well against GT. In my opinion we've seen DJO fade away at the end of games and Crowder has asserted himself well enough either. If those two are effective for the entire game, MU is just fine. We need are seniors to carry the team for the full game.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on January 06, 2012, 03:41:47 PM
Buzz has been hailed here as a great recruiter, but he has some guys on the team right now that seem to be out of their league at key positions. Still waiting for Jamil Wilson to breakthrough.
I'm giving Jamil a break because he has to guard way bigger this year. He has shown flashes. He will be fine.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 06, 2012, 02:04:41 PM
You could possibly end the game with that line-up, but you can't start it. Wilson and Gardner have to sub for each other in the 1st half due to fouls.
Line-up wise, I'd go with these guys to start:
Blue
Mayo
DJO
Jae
J. Wilson
It's time for Vander to start at PG. It gets Mayo on the floor more and allows Vander to play up-top on offense, which is much better fit for him than playing the wing. Also, Junior's not doing too much to justify starting and playing major minutes.
Bench wise: Gardner, Junior & Anderson or Jones (which ever guy can make a contribution). I like Gardner coming off the bench more than starting, but his minutes need to be capped at 25. Therefore, either Jones or Anderson need to play a bit, especially when foul trouble hits. DG can't play 31 minutes a night like he did against GT.
I'd agree with that in a lot of games, but in a game against a tall opponent may want to try his line-up with the risk that any or all of the front line might be in foul trouble. Maybe you start it, and then just let them know the first to commit a foul is sitting first.
But you are right - Mayo has certainly been better than Jamil so far this year.
we had Crowder, J. Wilson, and DG in for a part of the GT game...if our "bigs" can play smart/get lucky through the first half, I could the three of them on the court at the same time doing some things for us as well.
Would it be possible to use a lineup like:
Vander, DJO, Wilson, Crowder, Gardner as the main minutes.
Then use Anderson as a starter in a role similar to Fulce and Erik Williams. A guy to make sure we don't start out in foul trouble, not make mistakes and bring good energy.
I never understood why E. Williams started last year. I would have no understanding why Juan should start now.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 06, 2012, 06:11:06 PM
I never understood why E. Williams started last year. I would have no understanding why Juan should start now.
The reason E Will started last year was to prohibit Jae from picking up a foul in the first 4 minutes of the game, which he was prone to do.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 06, 2012, 06:33:58 PM
The reason E Will started last year was to prohibit Jae from picking up a foul in the first 4 minutes of the game, which he was prone to do.
Exactly, I think Juan could work similarly. Also, as opposed to E. Will, Juan is a high quality on ball defender, he might just not be strong enough yet.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 06, 2012, 06:33:58 PM
The reason E Will started last year was to prohibit Jae from picking up a foul in the first 4 minutes of the game, which he was prone to do.
I understand why we were told that...it just made no sense to me. And since Jae doesn't seem to be prone to picking up dumb fouls early, I think it would make even less sense to start Juan now. That's just silly.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 06, 2012, 07:22:36 PM
I understand why we were told that...it just made no sense to me. And since Jae doesn't seem to be prone to picking up dumb fouls early, I think it would make even less sense to start Juan now. That's just silly.
Jae seems more prone to pick up a "make up foul" as in damn I missed the layup so I am going to be over aggressive and pick up a foul reaching for a steal in the back court.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 06, 2012, 07:22:36 PM
I understand why we were told that...it just made no sense to me. And since Jae doesn't seem to be prone to picking up dumb fouls early, I think it would make even less sense to start Juan now. That's just silly.
Jae is prone to picking up dumb fouls early and late, and since the number of fouls allowed per person is limited, if he is not in the game in the first 4 minutes he cannot pick up a foul potentially extending his time on the floor.
What if we just don't play Jae? That way he will never foul out!!!
Vander Blue could possibly at his best be a player very similar to Iman Shumpert who is 6'5, extremely athletic, and can shoot the 3. Hes now playing PG for the Knicks who are awful at the position and brings great energy as he drives hard and plays D. Vander can do that and at his best will be just like him.
Quote from: gmhfordham1015 on January 06, 2012, 11:21:27 PM
Vander Blue could possibly at his best be a player very similar to Iman Shumpert who is 6'5, extremely athletic, and can shoot the 3. Hes now playing PG for the Knicks who are awful at the position and brings great energy as he drives hard and plays D. Vander can do that and at his best will be just like him.
You're delusional, sorry.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 06, 2012, 01:01:36 PM
Still doesn't solve the head scratcher of top point guard and Wilson in the same sentence.
Maybe this will help with the head scratching? Its called player development.
Interesting article from way back.
ST. LOUIS - There were a number of talented 2011 prospects at the Nike Hoop Jamboree, and none were more impressive than combo guard Austin Rivers.
Guards
Austin Rivers- Looks to be the complete package as a combo guard. Rivers handles with savvy, scores multiple ways and has the length and athleticism to defend and rebound his position. The son of Celtics coach Doc Rivers simply has a whole lot of game and has the potential to be a dominant player as he gets physically stronger.
Nick Johnson- Maybe not quite the point guard that Rivers is, Johnson shares the same qualities as Rivers. A strong two foot jumper, Johnson is a serious scoring threat in the midrange area with his advanced repertoire of shots.
Derrick Wilson- Built like a running back, Wilson has a highly skilled game to go along with his explosive strength. A force around the rim as a scorer and rebounder, Wilson can also score the ball effectively from the outside and has the basketball IQ to run a team.
Jamal Branch- A smooth athlete with a dose of athleticism, Branch is oozing with upside. He scores the ball well off the dribble, shows instincts on the defensive side of the ball and will only get better as he gets stronger.
http://cleveland.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1072&CID=818638
The problem is that article is from 2008. My recollection is that D Wilson dropped a bit as his recruitment went on, because he was playing out of position on his AAU team. He had a number of high majors inquiring about him, but those went away. MU stuck with him.
I clearly think the jury is still out on him simply because he hasn't asserted himself at all offensively. For a guy who came out with a combo guard rep, he seems to project nothing but a point guard at this level.
seems to happen at least every other game - so frequently - I tell people watching the game with me as soon as Jae misses a layup, watch for a Crowder foul in the next 20 seconds...
Quote from: MU B2002 on January 06, 2012, 08:48:23 PM
Jae seems more prone to pick up a "make up foul" as in damn I missed the layup so I am going to be over aggressive and pick up a foul reaching for a steal in the back court.
I think Vander would be more effective at 1 than the 3. However, I disagree with him replacing Cadougan. Cadougan is not a superstar, but he is tough. Look who scored the last bucket for MU to tie the game. It was Cadougan taking it to the hole. I did not see anyone else trying to keep us from losing that game. There is no way Blue scores on that drive. I prefer not to use a three guard linup, but given our shortage of bigmen we have to. Besides that Blue missed two drives during our meltdown on on a third drive, realizing he could not score by taking it all the way to the basket, he threw away a pass when he should of just pulled up and shot a 5 footer. I do not see playing Blue as a plus. Although, I have to give him credit for hitting two free throws when we were melting down. Blue would be the one I would replace in this linup, but there are not many options. Jamil would be the best, but that would mean playing all three of our semi-big guys at once. Mayo would give us a lot more scoring puch, but we would lose something on the defensive end. However, maybe that would not be so bad, since Blue is too small to play effective half court defense in Big East anyways.
Quote from: bilsu on January 07, 2012, 08:48:09 AM
I think Vander would be more effective at 1 than the 3. However, I disagree with him replacing Cadougan. Cadougan is not a superstar, but he is tough. Look who scored the last bucket for MU to tie the game. It was Cadougan taking it to the hole. I did not see anyone else trying to keep us from losing that game. There is no way Blue scores on that drive. I prefer not to use a three guard linup, but given our shortage of bigmen we have to. Besides that Blue missed two drives during our meltdown on on a third drive, realizing he could not score by taking it all the way to the basket, he threw away a pass when he should of just pulled up and shot a 5 footer.
Just to point out, you picked out the one good thing Junior did in that game, and the couple of bad things that Vander did in that game. I think it was pretty obvious that Vander played an all around better game than Junior did on Wednesday.
Regardless, Junior is gone after next year. Branch being able to suit up as a sophomore next January would be a great addition, but there will have to be a subtraction as well, and it won't address our length issues. However, we would have Otule (hopefully healthy), Gardner, Steve Taylor, and Durley, plus Wilson with more experience playing in the post, which would help a lot with our length problems.
Having Blue, Branch, and DW as options at the point in 2013-14 wouldn't be a bad problem at all to have, and I'd love to have Branch as an extra ball-handler or backup point next season.
Well fans, this is the core question. Setting the rotation is key to the Warriors playing like a team, as opposed to a gathering of talented guys.
This fan thinks Coach Williams might have it close to right, with Davante Gardner and Mayo coming off the bench. The one open question is the point guard as correctly pointed out. It probably is worth the risk to try Blue. We will see.
Coach Williams "fixed" the midget team of two years ago by going even smaller. Last year he "fixed" the team down the stretch by playing Jimmy Butler on the opposing team's star.
Coach Williams will get it right again this year - sooner than later, one would hope.