From Stats LLC game preview via ESPN & Yahoo 12/28:
"Starting center Chris Otule will miss his fifth straight contest due to an ACL injury to his left knee, with Williams hoping the junior may be available for Marquette's Big East opener against Villanova on Sunday."
Here's my question... how far in advance must one be cleared from an ACL injury? Same day, two days, a week? If Chris could be ready to go Sunday, wouldn't it be plausible that he might see some action tonight -- even if just a few minutes? Heck, I might sub CO in on defense for a possession at a time for no other reason than to give him some game minutes against an elite big before heading into the BE season.
Far be it for Buzz to outright mislead the media, but apparently all he said was that he was hoping CO might be available Sunday... that doesn't preclude him from hoping he might be available tonight.
Strotty via Paint Touches 12/28:
"Otule's status still is unknown, but Williams said his center is inching closer to running in practice. "If he's able to get on the court, it'd be towards the end of the week," Williams said. "He's continued to improve relative to his flexibility, his strength is gaining, but there's only so much you can do to hurry up and get stronger.""
Presumably, the interview was earlier in the week, so if one were to take Buzz literally, "towards the end of the week" has to be tonight. Sunday wouldn't be "towards" the end of the week... it "is" the end of the week (or the beginning of next week depending on how you set your Outlook calendar preferences).
OK -- Now that my stretching is done, I'm all warmed up for the game tonight.
I hope he gets 5 minutes. That would bode well for him being ready when we really need him starting this weekend.
Personally, I'd be happy just to see him dressed and going through warm-ups before the game.
Hope I'm wrong, but there seems to be a lot of ambiguity regarding this injury which leads me to conclude that the injury is serious enough to require surgery and sideline him for the year. My guess, done for the year. Not a doctor, just a feeling.
Why would ambiguity lead you to believe that it's a season ending injury? It seems to me that if it were for sure season ending, he would be declared out and have the surgery already. It looks to me that he is trying to get it back in shape to play shortly.
And frankly I don't find it all that ambiguous.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 29, 2011, 10:12:08 AM
Hope I'm wrong, but there seems to be a lot of ambiguity regarding this injury which leads me to conclude that the injury is serious enough to require surgery and sideline him for the year. My guess, done for the year. Not a doctor, just a feeling.
I have no idea where you would get this since we have heard basically everything to the contrary.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 29, 2011, 10:06:39 AM
Personally, I'd be happy just to see him dressed and going through warm-ups before the game.
Agree. Be a lift for the team if he can be in uniform tonight and run the layup drill before the game. I'd view that as a huge win.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 29, 2011, 10:12:08 AM
Hope I'm wrong, but there seems to be a lot of ambiguity regarding this injury which leads me to conclude that the injury is serious enough to require surgery and sideline him for the year. My guess, done for the year. Not a doctor, just a feeling.
We are approaching a month since Otule's injury (dec 2). If surgery was needed it would have happened weeks ago. You don't wait a month to repair a ACL.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 29, 2011, 10:54:27 AM
We are approaching a month since Otule's injury (dec 2). If surgery was needed it would have happened weeks ago. You don't wait a month to repair a ACL.
Actually these days you do since they typically wait fort swelling to go down before surgery. That being said, if it was a complete tear, they wouldn't be talking about him suiting up for Sunday's game.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 29, 2011, 10:12:08 AM
Hope I'm wrong, but there seems to be a lot of ambiguity regarding this injury which leads me to conclude that the injury is serious enough to require surgery and sideline him for the year. My guess, done for the year. Not a doctor, just a feeling.
Buzz told Enlund earlier in the week that if it was just about health, he'd play again this season. But Buzz is trying to make the right decision for CO's entire life, not just the time he can help Buzz win ball games.
He did not appear close to ready one week ago prior to the UWM game. We was limping badly before the game as he walked back to the locker room. I'd be shocked to see him against Vandy or Nova.
Quote from: 94Warrior on December 29, 2011, 11:32:05 AM
He did not appear close to ready one week ago prior to the UWM game. We was limping badly before the game as he walked back to the locker room. I'd be shocked to see him against Vandy or Nova.
Maybe sitting down on those (relative to his size) tiny chairs for 2 hours is bad for his knee.
Quote from: Bocephys on December 29, 2011, 11:17:07 AM
Actually these days you do since they typically wait fort swelling to go down before surgery. That being said, if it was a complete tear, they wouldn't be talking about him suiting up for Sunday's game.
I can tell you that waiting for the swelling to go down does not take a week let alone a month.
At least enough to tell the extent of the injury.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 29, 2011, 10:22:44 AM
Why would ambiguity lead you to believe that it's a season ending injury? It seems to me that if it were for sure season ending, he would be declared out and have the surgery already. It looks to me that he is trying to get it back in shape to play shortly.
And frankly I don't find it all that ambiguous.
Not ambiguous? what is the exact nature of the injury? Full tear? Partial tear? Tear with meniscus damage? Tear with additional mcl damage? Some combination of the above? I think they are desperately hoping it will heal, but could be in denial.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 29, 2011, 10:54:27 AM
We are approaching a month since Otule's injury (dec 2). If surgery was needed it would have happened weeks ago. You don't wait a month to repair a ACL.
Absolutely false. Such a wait occurs frequently.
For a real world example - Trevor Mbakwe. Literally more than a month, although surgery was decided upon almost immediately.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on December 29, 2011, 11:19:39 AM
Buzz told Enlund earlier in the week that if it was just about health, he'd play again this season. But Buzz is trying to make the right decision for CO's entire life, not just the time he can help Buzz win ball games.
There's a reason I quoted Strotty, not Enlund. In time, most everyone else will be doing the same.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 29, 2011, 12:22:41 PM
Absolutely false. Such a wait occurs frequently.
For a real world example - Trevor Mbakwe. Literally more than a month, although surgery was decided upon almost immediately.
Exactly, that was my point. Tom Brady waited about a month to have his done as well if I recall.
I think we do not need Otule to beat Villanova. I hope he is allowed to recover before he is rushed back. Tonights game a healthy Otule would make a difference, but it is a non-conference game and I would not bring him back early for it. We definately could use Otule against Georgetown and Syracuse. However, Syrcause is a loss either way so why rush him back for that. Georgetown is the only game I would rush him back for and personally I would rather take the chance that we do not need him.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 29, 2011, 12:04:54 PM
Not ambiguous? what is the exact nature of the injury? Full tear? Partial tear? Tear with meniscus damage? Tear with additional mcl damage? Some combination of the above? I think they are desperately hoping it will heal, but could be in denial.
I think it is obviously an injury that isn't necessarily season ending. I have no idea why you say "could be in denial." They know the extent of the injury...don't make assumptions just because you don't.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 29, 2011, 12:04:54 PM
Not ambiguous? what is the exact nature of the injury? Full tear? Partial tear? Tear with meniscus damage? Tear with additional mcl damage? Some combination of the above? I think they are desperately hoping it will heal, but could be in denial.
I do not believe there is any rule per the NCAA requiring them to disclose injuries like the NFL, hence the lack of information. You didn't get up in arms only knowing that Juan had a "shoulder injury" did you? So why not trust the coaches with this one as well? I highly doubt they know Chris has a torn ACL and are just hoping on a wing and a prayer that it magically heals all by itself quicker than anyone in existence.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 29, 2011, 12:40:04 PM
I think it is obviously an injury that isn't necessarily season ending. I have no idea why you say "could be in denial." They know the extent of the injury...don't make assumptions just because you don't.
I do not know the full extent of the injury. Nor do you or anyone else on this board. That's because this state of ambiguity has been created by the program not disclosing it to us. Obviously not necessarily season ending? Now, there's an assumption. Please recall, I said it was only a feeling that he was done for the year, not a fact and that I hoped I was mistaken.
Quote from: Bocephys on December 29, 2011, 12:51:38 PM
I do not believe there is any rule per the NCAA requiring them to disclose injuries like the NFL, hence the lack of information. You didn't get up in arms only knowing that Juan had a "shoulder injury" did you? So why not trust the coaches with this one as well? I highly doubt they know Chris has a torn ACL and are just hoping on a wing and a prayer that it magically heals all by itself quicker than anyone in existence.
No, I didn't get up in arms about Juan's injury. It has nothing to do with trusting or not trusting the coaches It has to do with my caring more about an injury to our starting center than an injury to an incoming switchable at this point. Should be obvious, aina'?
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 29, 2011, 01:15:47 PM
Obviously not necessarily season ending? Now, there's an assumption.
"Not necessarily season ending" isn't an assumption. If he is working out, MU obviously believes it may not be season ending.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 29, 2011, 01:22:08 PM
"Not necessarily season ending" isn't an assumption. If he is working out, MU obviously believes it may not be season ending.
That sounds ambiguous. "not necessarily season ending" ="also possibly season ending".
Lmao, Does Sultan have anything better to do than argue with people? Everytime I'm reading comments it seems you're always giving your objective opinion and throwing insults in there as well. How do you dress yourself in the morning?
Can't wait for this "educational" I'm about to receive.
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 29, 2011, 01:39:17 PM
Lmao, Does Sultan have anything better to do than argue with people? Everytime I'm reading comments it seems you're always giving your objective opinion and throwing insults in there as well. How do you dress yourself in the morning?
Can't wait for this "educational" I'm about to receive.
You're an idiot. Sultan is one of the most rational members of this board.
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 29, 2011, 01:39:17 PM
Lmao, Does Sultan have anything better to do than argue with people?
Not today.
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 29, 2011, 01:39:17 PM
Lmao, Does Sultan have anything better to do than argue with people? Everytime I'm reading comments it seems you're always giving your objective opinion and throwing insults in there as well. How do you dress yourself in the morning?
Can't wait for this "educational" I'm about to receive.
I'm surprised it's taken you this long to give your two cents about this. Not that you've given it except to rail on Sultan, but given that you and CO arelikethis, I've wondered why you don't just clear it all up for the rest of us.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on December 29, 2011, 02:46:21 PM
I'm surprised it's taken you this long to give your two cents about this. Not that you've given it except to rail on Sultan, but given that you and CO arelikethis, I've wondered why you don't just clear it all up for the rest of us.
[/quote Huh? Must have missed when Duguaine implied he and CO were justlikethis? Too cute.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 29, 2011, 02:53:27 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on December 29, 2011, 02:46:21 PM
I'm surprised it's taken you this long to give your two cents about this. Not that you've given it except to rail on Sultan, but given that you and CO arelikethis, I've wondered why you don't just clear it all up for the rest of us.
[/quote Huh? Must have missed when Duguaine implied he and CO were justlikethis? Too cute.
Here you go ATWiz. Two of his posts from a couple weeks ago.
17 MUScoop / Hangin' at the Al / Re: Still no update on Otule? on: December 09, 2011, 09:21:30 AM
I spoke with Chris last night, and he doesn't even know how long. So we can't jump to any timeframes quite yet.
Reply Quote Notify
18 MUScoop / Hangin' at the Al / Talking to the man himself otule on: December 08, 2011, 08:48:31 PM
I know there's multiple post, however I wanted everyone to know Chris himself said he wasn't sure of a timeframe yet on how long he'll be out. He said he'd keep me posted.
Seems to me he could clear this all up.
Thanks House. did miss it.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 29, 2011, 01:30:59 PM
That sounds ambiguous. "not necessarily season ending" ="also possibly season ending".
Ambiguity keeps open the option to take a medical red shirt. If MU gave a timeline of 4-6 weeks, the NCAA wouldn't grant a medical waiver for an extra year of eligibility if Chris sat the rest of the year voluntarily. But he could probably - in theory - opt for another full year of eligibility rather than play the rest of the year at 80% if he so desired. It's not like his post-MU options playing basketball are numerous at this point.... why not live the dream of D-I ball a bit longer if he wants to?
Quote from: Benny B on December 29, 2011, 03:11:01 PM
Ambiguity keeps open the option to take a medical red shirt. If MU gave a timeline of 4-6 weeks, the NCAA wouldn't grant a medical waiver for an extra year of eligibility if Chris sat the rest of the year voluntarily. But he could probably - in theory - opt for another full year of eligibility rather than play the rest of the year at 80% if he so desired. It's not like his post-MU options playing basketball are numerous at this point.... why not live the dream of D-I ball a bit longer if he wants to?
He can probably play overseas in any number of leagues...nothing to sneeze at.
Quote from: Benny B on December 29, 2011, 03:11:01 PM
Ambiguity keeps open the option to take a medical red shirt. If MU gave a timeline of 4-6 weeks, the NCAA wouldn't grant a medical waiver for an extra year of eligibility if Chris sat the rest of the year voluntarily. But he could probably - in theory - opt for another full year of eligibility rather than play the rest of the year at 80% if he so desired. It's not like his post-MU options playing basketball are numerous at this point.... why not live the dream of D-I ball a bit longer if he wants to?
Because it hurts our scholarship table?
The real question is whether he can play without reinjuring it. That one no one knows the answer to. Right now apparantley he can be granted a 6th year. He comes back and gets reinjured he losses the 6th year. I rather have the 6th year.
What would really be helpful is stories from posters about injuries. Lets keep the descriptions of knee injuries coming; how they happened, what kind of PT was involved, how well they could get around before surgery, how long before they had an MRI, ETC.
Just a few dozen more and I think we'll be in a position to know exactly how this will play out.
Quote from: Benny B on December 29, 2011, 03:11:01 PM
Ambiguity keeps open the option to take a medical red shirt. If MU gave a timeline of 4-6 weeks, the NCAA wouldn't grant a medical waiver for an extra year of eligibility if Chris sat the rest of the year voluntarily. But he could probably - in theory - opt for another full year of eligibility rather than play the rest of the year at 80% if he so desired. It's not like his post-MU options playing basketball are numerous at this point.... why not live the dream of D-I ball a bit longer if he wants to?
Last I knew, Dwight Burke and Ousmane Barro were playing professional basketball in South America and Poland, respectively. I'm sure there'll be a team somewhere that could use a 6'11" former D1 player if Otule chooses to go that route post-graduation.
Oh i appologize, I guess it's a HUGE deal to know a D1 basketball player who goes to MU. I suppose I should feel a little more entitled shouldn't I, especially with the scholars on here who (I assume) are alumni?
::)
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 29, 2011, 03:42:37 PM
He can probably play overseas in any number of leagues...nothing to sneeze at.
Come on guys... I get that. If Chris wants to play ball, he can probably do so for many years. I grew up with a kid who was a mediocre basketball player in HS and college (D-III) and he's been playing overseas since college simply because he's 6'7" and probably isn't qualified to run the fryer at McDonalds. (I'm pretty sure many of us could latch on with an overseas team, but we'd be the ones not getting paid to play.) Moreover, it probably wouldn't be a very desirable lifestyle for a lot of us given that we don't have an obsession with playing basketball (we just obsess ourselves with those that do).
The point I was trying to make is that if basketball is what he wants to do, it's not like Chris is in a hurry to graduate and get his name into the NBA draft because his stock is going down... all he can do at MU is get better, so why not maximize that time if that's his goal. If he wants to go overseas, he can do so just as easily in 2-1/2 years as he can 18 months from now. Or, he may be anxious to put his college degree to work in another year and so he doesn't care about another year of eligibility. Bottom line, is that he has all of those options on the table for his choosing. If surgery isn't going to happen and a timeline for return this year (albeit not at 100%) was already given, then he forgoes one of those options.
Quote from: bilsu on December 29, 2011, 03:58:05 PMThe real question is whether he can play without reinjuring it. That one no one knows the answer to. Right now apparantley he can be granted a 6th year. He comes back and gets reinjured he losses the 6th year. I rather have the 6th year.
He can be granted a 6th year, that doesn't mean he would be granted a 6th year. With Otule's history, it seems like he'd have a decent shot, but the NCAA would be fully within their rights to deny him as well. I'd love to get an extra year out of CO, but if they don't feel surgery will be necessary and the risks are no greater of him playing now or waiting until Fall, I say take him back now while he can contribute rather than banking on the generosity of the NCAA.
Quote from: Benny B on December 29, 2011, 04:53:13 PM
Come on guys... I get that. If Chris wants to play ball, he can probably do so for many years. I grew up with a kid who was a mediocre basketball player in HS and college (D-III) and he's been playing overseas since college simply because he's 6'7" and probably isn't qualified to run the fryer at McDonalds. (I'm pretty sure many of us could latch on with an overseas team, but we'd be the ones not getting paid to play.) Moreover, it probably wouldn't be a very desirable lifestyle for a lot of us given that we don't have an obsession with playing basketball (we just obsess ourselves with those that do).
The point I was trying to make is that if basketball is what he wants to do, it's not like Chris is in a hurry to graduate and get his name into the NBA draft because his stock is going down... all he can do at MU is get better, so why not maximize that time if that's his goal. If he wants to go overseas, he can do so just as easily in 2-1/2 years as he can 18 months from now. Or, he may be anxious to put his college degree to work in another year and so he doesn't care about another year of eligibility. Bottom line, is that he has all of those options on the table for his choosing. If surgery isn't going to happen and a timeline for return this year (albeit not at 100%) was already given, then he forgoes one of those options.
Ok not what I got out of your original post but reasonable.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 29, 2011, 05:12:29 PM
He can be granted a 6th year, that doesn't mean he would be granted a 6th year. With Otule's history, it seems like he'd have a decent shot, but the NCAA would be fully within their rights to deny him as well. I'd love to get an extra year out of CO, but if they don't feel surgery will be necessary and the risks are no greater of him playing now or waiting until Fall, I say take him back now while he can contribute rather than banking on the generosity of the NCAA.
My understanding is that it is up the conference to review the medical documentation, not the NCAA, since he currently meets the game qualifications.
If any of our fellow bloggers will be at the game tonight, can you do a real-time post on what CO is doing in pre-game activities?
We need Chris this year. In two years we will be great without him, no need to risk the chance he doesnt get a redshirt. Get him prepped and ready to play by Gtown that is when we need him. This teams ceiling is so much higher with his body down low. Im confident that DG and Jamil will be well improved in two years along with Taylor, Burton etc...
Get Chris ready to play a little vs Nova and hopefully for real vs the big road tests.
Crazy thought: Otule should do what HE wants to do.
Just like Cadougan. He needs to do whatever he feels is best.
Is Chris out there in warm ups?
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 29, 2011, 04:25:09 PM
Oh i appologize, I guess it's a HUGE deal to know a D1 basketball player who goes to MU. I suppose I should feel a little more entitled shouldn't I, especially with the scholars on here who (I assume) are alumni?
::)
Easy there jersey chaser.
Quote from: MilWarrior on December 29, 2011, 07:25:03 PM
Is Chris out there in warm ups?
Chris is in street clothes.
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 29, 2011, 04:25:09 PM
Oh i appologize, I guess it's a HUGE deal to know a D1 basketball player who goes to MU. I suppose I should feel a little more entitled shouldn't I, especially with the scholars on here who (I assume) are alumni?
::)
Pretty defensive aren't you? You're the name dropper. If you know him, what's he say about coming back?
Quote from: marqptm on December 29, 2011, 07:36:14 PM
Chris is in street clothes.
Thanks.
Let's shut this thread down. Too much crabbing today. Game time!!!
Go Warriors!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rutgers v Florida going into ot. Dang! Will now miss the opening of our game on espn2. Crap.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 29, 2011, 08:00:40 PM
Rutgers v Florida going into ot. Dang! Will now miss the opening of our game on espn2. Crap.
The ONLY good thing about it is getting to hear Raftery say "ONIONS"!!
Tip off delayed!