I noticed in Seth Davis's weekly mailbag (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/12/14/breakout.juniors/1.html), that in the course of discussing the Xavier-Cincinnati, he brings up the need for more discussion regarding sportsmanship, and lists the three-goggles as one example of poor sportsmanship:
QuoteIf nothing else, I hope this whole ugly episode provokes a much-needed national debate about sportsmanship. (And yes, that includes innocuous but unseemly acts of showmanship like the three goggles.) I understand trash talking has been and will always be a part of the game, but coaches and referees have become way too tolerant of it. It also doesn't help that too many coaches spend too much time complaining to refs instead of coaching their teams.
I know that Davis has commented in the past on how he doesn't like the three goggles, as it is a way of showboating and maybe even taunting the other team.
This led me to two questions:
1. Is the team still doing the three-goggles this year? I can't remember any cases of seeing it this year, but I was wondering if anyone else has noticed it.
2. Are the three-goggles innocent, or a form of showboating? What are people's thoughts on them? I thought it was fun last year when the team started doing it, particularly as a unique Marquette thing. But, as it started getting more into the tourney time and other teams started doing it, I did feel like ran its course, and can see why some would take issue with it. And, if it is still going on, do you think that Buzz should let the team keep doing it, especially after the XU-UC situation?
Stupid topic.
Quote from: bigself13 on December 14, 2011, 02:20:25 PM
Stupid topic.
Does that make you feel better about yourself?
I'm old school so I don't like excessive celebration during the game. It is the equivalent of taunting. Make the shot, point to the assist man, high five your teammate, play defense.
So far I think its been the 3 monocles. I saw Crowder do it a couple of times against Green Bay.
The team hasn't been doing it much this year, but likely because refs like to throw out warnings, and even technicals for it. The most I've seen is a quick and subtle "three monocle"
And I think that answers your second question too - if refs are discouraging it, they view it as unsportsmanlike, even if I may think it's far more innocent celebration.
I tend to have an extremely permissive view on celebrations, so I think they're absolutely fine. Sure it might piss the other team off, but that doesn't make it unsportsmanlike. For me, you basically have to go on the offensive against your opponent to rise to the level of a lack of sportsmanship. Taking offense to anything less is just being thin skinned.
Unsportsmanlike to shout "and 1" after every made basket?
unsportsmanlike or not, it annoys the hell out of me.
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 14, 2011, 02:40:38 PM
I tend to have an extremely permissive view on celebrations, so I think they're absolutely fine. Sure it might piss the other team off, but that doesn't make it unsportsmanlike. For me, you basically have to go on the offensive against your opponent to rise to the level of a lack of sportsmanship. Taking offense to anything less is just being thin skinned.
As Rocky said, if the refs are discouraging it, they view it as unsportsmanlike, so, unless you are reffing our games, no use in tempting the refs to T us up.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 14, 2011, 02:31:42 PM
I'm old school so I don't like excessive celebration during the game. It is the equivalent of taunting. Make the shot, point to the assist man, high five your teammate, play defense.
I agree. I don't care for the celebrations - whether considered taunting or not. Similar to the dance a defensive player makes after nearly any tackle. Unneccesary and irritating.
Quote from: socrplar125 on December 14, 2011, 02:44:36 PM
Unsportsmanlike to shout "and 1" after every made basket?
unsportsmanlike or not, it annoys the hell out of me.
I don't mind it. Shouting "and one" or doing the three goggles IMO is basically a celebration. You aren't showing up an opponent in either case.
A little trash talking likely goes on, but I don't think MU does a lot of it...if any.
I'm old school, probably because I'm old period. I don't get the whole trash talking, in your face element common in sport today. That said, stuff like 3 goggles or high 5's is pretty innocent. I don't see that as (horrors) "disrespecting" your opponent.
I liked it more when it seemed to be a Marquette thing. Jae still throws up a 3-monocle at least once a game (provided he's hitting his shots). I could do without now, but it doesn't bother me overly much...a 3-monocle isn't very over the top.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2011, 03:15:36 PM
I'm old school, probably because I'm old period. I don't get the whole trash talking, in your face element common in sport today.
Trash talking in basketball has been around for forty+ years...not a recent phenomenon.
comparing 3 goggles/monacles to what Tu Holloway and friends were doing on Saturday is a little bit of a stretch. I get having to nip it in the bud, but this is what the refs did with Vander and Jordan Taylor in Madison? They were jawwing, the ref stopped, pulled them together, spoke for about a minute and that was that. To me, that's how the refs should handle it. Also, DJO got T'd up last year in G-Town for celebrating after a 3, it's all up to the ref's discretion and game situation, to single out one fad/act is silly.
BTW, i like Seth Davis, but he is becoming very curmudgeon-ish lately. Complaining about 3 goggles on 2 separate columns and also ragging on anyone who sings along to Sweet Caroline in a stadium... He's not really embracing the culture of the sport he covers as well as Peter King or Stewart Mandel do... but i still like his stuff.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 14, 2011, 03:19:40 PM
Trash talking in basketball has been around for forty+ years...not a recent phenomenon.
I'm sure you're right, but I still don't get it or like it.
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 14, 2011, 02:47:08 PM
As Rocky said, if the refs are discouraging it, they view it as unsportsmanlike, so, unless you are reffing our games, no use in tempting the refs to T us up.
haha I definitely agree that its certainly not worth going out and getting T'd up over. just responding the question about what I personally thought about it.
Quote from: Jblattner7 on December 14, 2011, 03:28:45 PM
He's not really embracing the culture of the sport he covers as well as Peter King
And what exactly does Peter King cover? Red Sox baseball? Coffee drinking? Travel stories? Favre jock-sniffing? Shameless name dropping?
This is a ridiculous conversation. 3 goggles are fine. Doesn't even relate to xavier fight
Quote from: mu89 on December 14, 2011, 02:23:32 PM
Does that make you feel better about yourself?
I agree. Unsportsman like conduct, 5 yard penalty.
Quote from: Jamailman on December 14, 2011, 03:57:29 PM
And what exactly does Peter King cover? Red Sox baseball? Coffee drinking? Travel stories? Favre jock-sniffing? Shameless name dropping?
Funny!
I am not a huge fan of the 3 goggles, just because I think it's kind of dumb. But, I don't see how it is any different than holding up one finger to say your #1 or pointing to the sky for that matter. Should they outlaw those gestures too?
I seem to recall that DJO got T'd up for three-goggles last year.
Quote from: MUEng92 on December 15, 2011, 12:06:11 PM
I am not a huge fan of the 3 goggles, just because I think it's kind of dumb. But, I don't see how it is any different than holding up one finger to say your #1 or pointing to the sky for that matter. Should they outlaw those gestures too?
apparently, "pointing to the sky" will shortly be outlawed, as it's already being viewed as "taunting"
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?&articleid=1386290&format=&page=1&listingType=Loc#articleFull
Quote from: Sheriff on December 15, 2011, 09:00:12 PM
I seem to recall that DJO got T'd up for three-goggles last year.
He said it was for cursing. They were warned about that before the game.
Why doesn't anyone get all over Duke for slapping the floor? That's the same as the 3-Goggles, yet because it's Duke, it's fine because they are just showing their intensity.