MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TallTitan34 on December 06, 2011, 11:11:43 PM

Title: Buzz On Chris
Post by: TallTitan34 on December 06, 2011, 11:11:43 PM
Expects a full diagnosis tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: TallTitan34 on December 06, 2011, 11:12:20 PM
Also said he didn't do a good job regrouping after Chris left.  Said it took him until the next media timeout to adjust the game plan.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: brewcity77 on December 06, 2011, 11:12:55 PM
Seeing him walking around on the court after the win was a huge relief. Here's hoping it's nothing serious.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: RyanConroy on December 06, 2011, 11:13:25 PM
I would take him being back by January.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Lacrosse218 on December 06, 2011, 11:15:26 PM
I know Otule has had foot injury issues in his past, but was curious if anyone knows if he has had knee issues ever in his history? 

Praying he is only out a few weeks with a sprain....
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown on December 06, 2011, 11:15:52 PM
Quote from: MUStudent on December 06, 2011, 11:13:25 PM
I would take him being back by January.
+1 .... might end up being a positive if it can get Gardner more playing time pre-conference.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on December 06, 2011, 11:20:48 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 06, 2011, 11:12:55 PM
Seeing him walking around on the court after the win was a huge relief. Here's hoping it's nothing serious.

I thought that was a good sign too but then a friend of mine said you can walk around on an ACL tear.  Is this true?  Any doctors on the board?
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on December 06, 2011, 11:22:29 PM
What a coincidence it could be though against Vandy. They gain their big man just in time, while our is out.


That wont be fun.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MUMac on December 06, 2011, 11:22:48 PM
Quote from: Jamailman on December 06, 2011, 11:20:48 PM
I thought that was a good sign too but then a friend of mine said you can walk around on an ACL tear.  Is this true?  Any doctors on the board?

I am not a Dr., but have heard that to be true.  You can move forward, it is the change of direction or side to side that creates problems.

Hoping a strain and not a tear.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Oldgym on December 06, 2011, 11:22:56 PM
Having blown both of mine, yes, you can walk on a torn ACL.  Even run.  But you cannot move laterally - not effectively, anyway.

Hoping for the best for CO, but will be holding my breath until Weds afternoon.  Sucks to see this happen.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: RyanConroy on December 06, 2011, 11:24:53 PM
ACL tear was definitely my first reaction when I saw it.

Him on the bench during the second half seemed like a good sign. Not sure if that's misguided hope, though.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MUFan42 on December 06, 2011, 11:25:06 PM
I'm dealing with a ACL tear now. Have surgery coming up on the 29th. I tore mine playing basketball and was able to walk very slowly the first few days. Then after swelling went down it's pretty much pain free, unless i make a cutting motion. Seeing Chris walk off the floor he was def walking better then how i was 2 hours after i tore mine. Then again the MRI's are what will be the answer.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: timinatorx3 on December 06, 2011, 11:25:13 PM
Please, please someone tell me Chris will be back this season. Finally, the curse is busted and the blueprint that has been followed so many times for crushing MU losses (opponent takes lead in final seconds, MU botches last possession) has been broken. I want to be so jacked up about this game but I can't get away from the injury... So even if you're lying, someone just write that Chris will be back soon.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: PVMagic on December 06, 2011, 11:25:32 PM
Quote from: Jamailman on December 06, 2011, 11:20:48 PM
I thought that was a good sign too but then a friend of mine said you can walk around on an ACL tear.  Is this true?  Any doctors on the board?

Can is one thing... but I feel like if they were concerned about an ACL tear, they wouldn't have let him walk around.  He most likely would have been immobilized, on crutches, etc.  And likely in considerably more pain than he seemed to be expressing.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: chapman on December 06, 2011, 11:26:18 PM
Quote from: Jamailman on December 06, 2011, 11:20:48 PM
I thought that was a good sign too but then a friend of mine said you can walk around on an ACL tear.  Is this true?  Any doctors on the board?

Yes, but I would expect if the doctors at all thought it could be an ACL they'd have had him on crutches, at least as a precaution.  Fully expecting a mild sprain, 2-4 weeks.  
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MU82 on December 06, 2011, 11:28:48 PM
Quote from: timinatorx3 on December 06, 2011, 11:25:13 PM
Please, please someone tell me Chris will be back this season. Finally, the curse is busted and the blueprint that has been followed so many times for crushing MU losses (opponent takes lead in final seconds, MU botches last possession) has been broken. I want to be so jacked up about this game but I can't get away from the injury... So even if you're lying, someone just write that Chris will be back soon.
Chris will be back soon.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MUMac on December 06, 2011, 11:30:33 PM
Quote from: chapman on December 06, 2011, 11:26:18 PM
Yes, but I would expect if the doctors at all thought it could be an ACL they'd have had him on crutches, at least as a precaution.  Fully expecting a mild sprain, 2-4 weeks.  

Yours and PVMagic's comments are excellent observations.  As you mention that, I was also surprised to see him at the spot in the bench where he sat.  I would have thought he would have been further down and away from the action if they had serious concerns.

Hopefully it is not the rose colored glasses I am using ...
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: timinatorx3 on December 06, 2011, 11:30:40 PM
Quote from: MU82 on December 06, 2011, 11:28:48 PM
Chris will be back soon.

Thanks! I'm going to bed now.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 06, 2011, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: sixstrings03 on December 06, 2011, 11:15:52 PM
+1 .... might end up being a positive if it can get Gardner more playing time pre-conference.

+1

It may finally force him to get his conditioning seriously in order.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MUMac on December 06, 2011, 11:32:52 PM
Quote from: MU82 on December 06, 2011, 11:28:48 PM
Chris will be back soon.

Are you a Doctor or did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on December 06, 2011, 11:34:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback - cautiously optimistic!
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Boozemon Barro on December 06, 2011, 11:38:31 PM
I've had an ACL tear before so I know a little bit about it. Mine was a little unique because I only tore the ACL, all my other ligaments and cartilage were fine. I tore it playing football and felt a pop and my knee just felt kind of weak. I actually played a couple more plays before I realized that there was something wrong and took myself out of the game. There was very minimal pain after the initial tear, and the real pain came up later that night when my knee swelled to the size of a volleyball. It seems to me that all ACL injuries are different as far as an initial reaction depending on what other damage is done to the knee. We really won't know anything about his injury until they take an MRI.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: 94Warrior on December 06, 2011, 11:39:46 PM
Quote from: Jamailman on December 06, 2011, 11:20:48 PM
I thought that was a good sign too but then a friend of mine said you can walk around on an ACL tear.  Is this true?  Any doctors on the board?

Not a doctor, but I know way too much about the ACL.

I've blown 2 acl's.
The first, playing basketball.  Extremely painful, no weight on it for days.
The second (other knee), skiing.  It ached, I skied down the mountain.  Walked ok the rest of the day.  Woke up with a volleyball for a knee the next morning.

What I'm saying is. without an MRI it is hard to tell.

Best Wishes Chris.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: 94Warrior on December 06, 2011, 11:47:53 PM
And, Boozeman is right.

The painful knee had a torn ACL, torn meniscus, and chipped bone in the joint.
The aching knee that I skied and walked on, was just an ACL.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: mr.MUskie on December 06, 2011, 11:54:04 PM
People saw his knee buckle and kind of jump to the conclusion that he blew out his ACL.  I've buckled my knees over 100 times between both knees, and after every surgery the doc has shown me pix from the scope of my intact ACLs.  Of course my ligaments were like stretched out rubber bands.  Sometimes it took 2-3 weeks before the limp went away.  Sometimes I was back in the game after a 15 minute break.  One game I buckled it 3 times before I decided to call it a day.  Ya gotta play with the small hurts.  So hopefully, Chris will be back soon.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MU06CU10 on December 06, 2011, 11:57:56 PM
Technically a doctor here, but still not sure what to make of it. From the video, my immediate concern was ACL. If it was just the ligament and not the meniscus or bone, then it's definitely true, as others have mentioned, that you can walk on it afterwards without much difficulty (other than instability). If there was any concern for that, however, I too would hope that the trainers would have at least stabilized his knee before letting him walk around. I'm sure the examined and reexamined the stability of his knee in the locker room multiple times, so my hope is that it's not as bad as it looked. Regardless, MRI is the answer for this. Here's to hoping for the obvious!
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: CrazyEcho on December 06, 2011, 11:59:37 PM
It would be hilarious if you had a PhD in Sociology. 
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MU06CU10 on December 07, 2011, 12:18:54 AM
Quote from: CrazyEcho on December 06, 2011, 11:59:37 PM
It would be hilarious if you had a PhD in Sociology.  

Haha, that probably would have been an easier, less expensive route. I'm legit (MD) but just started residency July, so still have the training wheels on. Also, as a disclaimer, I'm not going into ortho and I didn't examine his knee, so I'm pretty much just Fristin' it over here.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: TomW1365 on December 07, 2011, 01:02:58 AM
Fools, fools, fools... An injury to a key player will freak us all out.  But there's many that go straight to the ACL tear?  Thank God you're not my Doctor! 
I have no idea if OTule is going to be alright, but I'm not going to diagnose him via ESPN.  Let's get behind our guy and not speculate.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 07, 2011, 05:09:20 AM
I'm a doctor. All you Otule critics out there, eat feces.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Tulsa Warrior on December 07, 2011, 05:40:58 AM
"I'm not going to diagnose him via ESPN."  Lots of people practicing tele-medicine.  :-\
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: mu03eng on December 07, 2011, 06:19:15 AM
I tore my ACL and meniscus 2 months ago playing basketball, open court non-contact somewhat similar to Chris, had surgery 5 weeks ago.  I could walk on it immediately afterwards but I knew something wasn't right and had a limited range of motion.  Injured it on a Monday and by Saturday I was taking my dog for a walk when the doc called to give me the MRI results.  The big thing after the injury is lateral movement and walking I would occasionally feel like my knee was going to "flamingo".  Based on talking to the docs, my wife is a PT, and general research how people react to ACL tears is all dependent on how strong the muscles around the knee are.  If Chris has a strong quad and hamstring he could walk on it without much visible evidence of injury.

Unless you can't walk they don't put you on crutches you've already done all the damage you can do.

Having said all that, thee are all sorts of less significant injuries he could have suffered, meniscus tear or bone bruising are just a few.  I was surprised the SID came out with the sprained knee diagnosis so quick, really can't tell for sure until you have the MRI
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MUDPT on December 07, 2011, 07:43:58 AM
I'm a PT and most people are right in that any speculation done now is speculation.  You can walk around with a torn ACL.  Most ligaments have little pain sensation, so many times they are non-painful as people have explained here.  I guess it's good that he was walking around after the game, I didn't see it.  Another PT friend said it didn't look good, however.  Most of my PT friends were trying to convince each other that he didn't tear his ACL.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on December 07, 2011, 07:44:39 AM
I also blew out my ACL playing basketball.  I played (or at least, tried) another 10 minutes before stopping (we were short players).  Within a very short time, my knee blew up into the proverbial volleyball.  The Dr. drained a large amount of blood off the knee several days later.  I'll add that if it's an ACL tear, Chris could definitely walk afterwards but he'd have a very noticeable limp.  He'd also have an extremely tight and large knee because of all the blood.  Obviously, an MRI will confirm it but they'll have a good idea it it's an ACL even without the MRI.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on December 07, 2011, 07:49:56 AM
Quotemost people are right in that any speculation done now is speculation.

Are you sure you're not a Republican candidate for President!?!  :D
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MUDPT on December 07, 2011, 08:07:55 AM
I get upset a lot about people speculating on injuries without ever examining a patient, which I guess I just did.  There was a huge article about Jay Cutler's injury by a physician in Chicago who had never seen Cutler, was just guessing on what the surgery was and how long he had been out.  And I know I'm off topic, but Matt Forte just got diagnosed with the same injury as Cutler in last year's playoff and there is no backlash against Forte for going to a Victoria Secret promotion last night instead of resting.  That's why any speculation is speculation right now.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: mu03eng on December 07, 2011, 08:18:18 AM
Quote from: MUDPT on December 07, 2011, 08:07:55 AM
I get upset a lot about people speculating on injuries without ever examining a patient, which I guess I just did.  There was a huge article about Jay Cutler's injury by a physician in Chicago who had never seen Cutler, was just guessing on what the surgery was and how long he had been out.  And I know I'm off topic, but Matt Forte just got diagnosed with the same injury as Cutler in last year's playoff and there is no backlash against Forte for going to a Victoria Secret promotion last night instead of resting.  That's why any speculation is speculation right now.

+1

Even the doctors examining Otule may not know the extent of the injury yet.  My ortho doc did a Lachman test on my knee and thought I might have escaped with just a meniscus tear.  It wasn't until we had an MRI that we knew the extent of the injury, and we are dealing with even less information so lets all just take a deep breath and wait it out.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 07, 2011, 12:48:31 PM
But he's only got one eye!!
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: JD on December 07, 2011, 12:57:16 PM
I'm a doctor

-Dr. Suess.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: NickelDimer on December 07, 2011, 01:19:54 PM
Didn't see anyone reference this quote, but it's encouraging...
QuoteWilliams on the status of center Chris Otule who suffered a knee injury 2 minutes into the game: "He has a sprained knee. He'll get an X-ray, an MRI, whatever they do, late tomorrow afternoon with our team doctors." (Williams did say that he thought Otule would be OK).

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135150133.html
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 07, 2011, 01:23:29 PM
Yeah sure, he'll be OK, sooner or later.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: PVMagic on December 07, 2011, 01:26:33 PM
Really just rationalizing what I want the hear soon in my head, but again, the fact that he wasn't on crutches or at all immobilized is very encouraging... I keep reminding myself of how conservative they tend to be with injuries (how many guys have we heard about wearing "precautionary" walking boots).
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: MUMac on December 07, 2011, 01:41:25 PM
Quote from: NickelDimer on December 07, 2011, 01:19:54 PM
Didn't see anyone reference this quote, but it's encouraging...
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135150133.html

Normally I think coaches refrain from saying anything like that unless the initial testing by the staff came out positive.  I know McCarthy usually says what they believe the injury may be.  With Buzz, I have not seen how he handles it, but hopefully it is the same.

Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: NickelDimer on December 07, 2011, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: MUMac on December 07, 2011, 01:41:25 PM
Normally I think coaches refrain from saying anything like that unless the initial testing by the staff came out positive.  I know McCarthy usually says what they believe the injury may be.  With Buzz, I have not seen how he handles it, but hopefully it is the same.



I agree.  More times than not if there's concern it's serious they say something along the lines of "we'll see what the tests reveal", etc. 
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Benny B on December 07, 2011, 01:48:00 PM
Would one of the resident doctors (or medically inclined) answer the following:

1. Can you have a "sprained knee" but not have any damage to the ACL in that knee?

2. Is an MRI primarily used to determine where a knee injury occurred or the extent of a knee injury?  For example, is an examining physician typically able to conclude that the ACL is injured before an MRI or X-Ray is done (even though the extent of the injury is not known)?
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: PVMagic on December 07, 2011, 01:53:58 PM
Quote from: Benny B on December 07, 2011, 01:48:00 PM
Would one of the resident doctors (or medically inclined) answer the following:

1. Can you have a "sprained knee" but not have any damage to the ACL in that knee?

2. Is an MRI primarily used to determine where a knee injury occurred or the extent of a knee injury?  For example, is an examining physician typically able to conclude that the ACL is injured before an MRI or X-Ray is done (even though the extent of the injury is not known)?

There are probably others on here with more expertise than me (just a lowly med student at this point... I'd assume there is an orthopod or two floating around here?), so by all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

1) A "sprain" is pretty generic, and can technically mean anything from a stretched ligament to a tear.  So yes, you could sprain the knee without damage to the ACL (though there are a few other ligaments/menisci in there that would also put Otule down for a while).

2)  Depends on the extent of the injury.  There are definitely clinical exams (someone mentioned the Lachman) that can demonstrate damage.  But an MRI should show diagnosis/location/extent definitively.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: mileskishnish72 on December 07, 2011, 03:33:33 PM
Benny,

A "sprain" indicates damage to a ligament, which is a fibrous structure that connects bones. There is a continuum from a mild sprain that might produce some pain, but where there is no gross damage or instability, to a complete rupture. Yes, there can be a "sparin" and the ACL can be fine, because the sprain involves other ligaments.

The ligaments involved and the amount of damage can be difficult to determine on the basis of physical exam only. The MRI can pinpoint what's involved and what is the extent of the disruption.

Was at the game, saw the play, but was screened by the press row. The description is scary. I would not get too optimistic about his being on the bench, not using crutches, etc. Often by exam the amount of damage is underestimated. Sad to say, I think it's fair to think it's an ACL unless and until the MRI shows otherwise. Here's hoping.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: Dr. Dunkenstein on December 07, 2011, 03:41:41 PM
Could somebody please put all this speculation to rest and check with Doc Rivers.  "You know Doc's a nickname, right?"

I am absolutely hoping for the best for Chris.
Title: Re: Buzz On Chris
Post by: dwaderoy2004 on December 07, 2011, 03:46:40 PM
Honestly, watching the replays, it just didn't look that bad to me.  He twisted it, but the knee never actually gave out in any way.  I think Chris was scared more than anything else.  I'm am guessing he will miss a couple games as a precautionary measure and be back in time for LSU, probably with a brace, but also probably no worse for the wear.  Time will tell, I suppose.
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