I'm trying to figure out ways to get optimistic for this one. I just think that when it comes to that building, against a team that slows it down and holds on to the rock as efficiently as Bucky does, I can't see any way we win. UNC couldn't turn it into a track meet, how can we? I think our best shot is if we are hitting our outside shots and drawing lots of fouls early. I have a few consolations...
- At the end of the year last year, Buzz learned how effective a long defender could be on great guards. I think Jamil Wilson, Vander Blue, and Todd Mayo could be very disruptive to Jordan Taylor. Take away his drive and kick and a lot of their offense will suffer.
- UNC just beat Wisconsin. We play a similar style, and Buzz just got to see what does work and doesn't work, and maybe a few clues on how to exploit them.
- No one expects us to win, outside of a few MU fans. I've seen one pundit out of about a dozen that picked us (Mike Singer, CBS Sports). Buzz's teams seem to thrive on being underdogs, and maybe Bucky will be vulnerable if they don't see MU as much of a threat, especially after having Carolina on their minds all week.
- Our defense is better. In the past, we've been killed by their efficiency. This is the most efficient defense I've ever seen from a Buzz team. If we hold them anywhere near that 30.4% our opponents are shooting from three, we can win.
- I'm hoping smart Vander shows up. Against Norfolk State, he had a poor game yet forced the winning turnover and assist. Against Jacksonville, he let the game come to him, not forcing it. He can be a force against Bucky, a solid defender and a guy on offense no one on Wisconsin can contain even without scoring the basket. Those won't be people shouting "Bluuuuuuue!" out there today, I hope he can keep his focus and let the game come to him.
- We've had 4 full days to prepare for them, they've had 2 to prepare for us. In addition, we've played (and beat) a team that tried everything to slow the game down and been able to watch how a team that wants to speed it up can beat them. They'll do what they do, but at least we've seen the blueprint.
.
So that's my list of reasons we have a chance. What kills me about this one is we really can't count on the turnovers (they don't do that), running the team off the court (they won't allow that), or crushing them at the free throw line (this is the Kohl Center). And then there's that damn ball...I hope Buzz got his hands on some of those for practice this week. I'm fully prepared for a loss today, and expecting it.
And also on the plus side, even if we lose today, that is hardly a killer in terms of the season as a whole. Two years ago, Duke and Ohio State both lost in that building, and went on to earn a #1 and #2 seed, respectively. Last year, #1 Ohio State lost there and still got a #1 seed in the Big Dance. Buzz understands the season is a marathon, and this game is one measuring stick along the way. Lose this, we can still go 12-1 in non-conference play, which would be his best ever non-con record. We can still compete for the Big East title, and we can still make plenty of noise in March. This team will be remembered for what they do on the season as a whole, not what they do on one rainy December afternoon in Madison.
Go Warriors!
The last two years, UW looked like they were going to take control of the game, but MU fought back to make it a contest, only to lose out in the end. I expect this to be close.
I'm at the parents right now and pretty fired up. Going to meet my Badger friend who lets me come to this game with him every other year. Too bad that the weather isn't like yesterday's.
I am excited to watch this game. Marquette will win by taking an early lead, maintaining it and playing aggressive defense and fast transition offense!! Go Marquette!!!!!
I do not know why, but I am more optimistic this morning than I was last night. There are three things that worry me about this game. First is rebounding It will not matter much if UW is missing their three pointers, if thet grab the majority of long rebounds. Second is offensive fouls. MU likes to take the ball to the hoop and Wisconsin will hav players set waiting for them to drive to far. Third would not being aggressive. The last time we played them Hayward settled for a three point shot on the first possession. We were down 17 before we started playing aggressively on offense. We need to force the action, However, that increases the chance of us getting offensive fouls.
Good points, Brew, but I have to say I'm pessimistic. it seems like slow can screw up fast easier than vice versa. They gave UNC fits and we didn't do so hot last tome we played UNC (and the webmaster kept that score at the top of the page all year) plus they are at home. Hoping against hope is very apt. My fondest hope is that I'm very, very wrong and you guys can point that out repeatedly after an MU upset.
3pt shooting by MU is going to be the key.
Making them opens the lane up, opening the game up.
Rebounding is what it is... the Rodents are above average at it, MU is simply average.
Pacing will be dictated by their ball control, barring MU going to full court press a la Mike Anderson at Mizzou (I'm all in for this, btw).
Not thinking MU can pull this off, but I've got a glimmer of hope in my heart. Something about this team makes me REALLY think they can win them all. Similar to Hayward's senior season.
30% chance MU wins. Wisconsin is well coached, well disciplined, plays basketball in a fashion that frustrates teams. These posts and threads I read here about how overrated they are or how unathletic are curious to say the least. They are a smarter basketball team than we are, their strengths are our weakness, they are playing at home where we have only won one time at the Kohl from my memory.
Sure, we're more athletic, we jump higher, we run faster, and at times we shoot the ball really well, but that can all be negated by sound basketball principles. If we don't defend the 3 ball well and get out rebounded, we are in trouble. Go MU.
On what basis do you suggest that UW is "smarter" than MU is?
We are one of the best 15 teams in the country. Wisconsin is going to have to play really, really well to beat us. And there isn't a single team in the country that plays harder than we do. Some of you guys are complete pessimists.
I guess I should mention on this Marquette basketball message board that this game isn't really important in the grand scheme of things, particularly when you consider 9/11 and the Kennedy Assassination and all.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 03, 2011, 11:31:12 AM
On what basis do you suggest that UW is "smarter" than MU is?
They make less mistakes on the floor, less brain cramps. As Brewcity said, we have to hope that smart Vander shows up today. No Wisconsin fan is worrying if smart Gasser, smart Taylor, smart Berg, etc, is showing up. They always show up playing smart. Smart in the sense that they all are on the same page, one cohesive unit. Smart in the sense of totally understanding that if they play their way they will win. When they don't play their way, that is when they lose.
This is not a case of IQ, it's a case of smart, conservative basketball that limits mental mistakes. Their style of play limits their mistakes, their defense often forces their opponents into mistakes. If they turn the ball over 15 times, they are screwed. If we turn the ball over 15 times, we can often overcome it, but it is made more difficult when playing a well disciplined, smart team like Wisconsin.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 03, 2011, 11:31:34 AM
We are one of the best 15 teams in the country. Wisconsin is going to have to play really, really well to beat us. And there isn't a single team in the country that plays harder than we do. Some of you guys are complete pessimists.
I guess I should mention on this Marquette basketball message board that this game isn't really important in the grand scheme of things, particularly when you consider 9/11 and the Kennedy Assassination and all.
Wisconsin is also one of the best 15 teams in the country and they are playing in their building where we have won a total of one game. Is it pessimism or realism?
Quote from: Hoopaloop on December 03, 2011, 11:36:19 AM
This is not a case of IQ, it's a case of smart, conservative basketball that limits mental mistakes. Their style of play limits their mistakes, their defense often forces their opponents into mistakes. If they turn the ball over 15 times, they are screwed. If we turn the ball over 15 times, we can often overcome it, but it is made more difficult when playing a well disciplined, smart team like Wisconsin.
"Conservative basketball" is not what MU does. MU tries to pressure and overextend. That has nothing to do with being "smart" or "dumb." It is more of a high-risk, high-reward style. It's the style that Buzz has used and won with since getting here. So you are right in that if they make a bunch of turnovers they will lose....so will UW if they try to force tempo....however I have seen no evidence that UW is smarter basketball-wise than MU is.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 03, 2011, 11:41:35 AM
"Conservative basketball" is not what MU does. MU tries to pressure and overextend. That has nothing to do with being "smart" or "dumb." It is more of a high-risk, high-reward style. It's the style that Buzz has used and won with since getting here. So you are right in that if they make a bunch of turnovers they will lose....so will UW if they try to force tempo....however I have seen no evidence that UW is smarter basketball-wise than MU is.
Agreed. That comment by chico's was perplexing, at best. Chico's sure does go out of his way to drool all over bo and the badgers.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on December 03, 2011, 11:37:23 AM
Wisconsin is also one of the best 15 teams in the country and they are playing in their building where we have won a total of one game. Is it pessimism or realism?
This is a better point than the idea that UW plays "smarter" than MU. That is totally perception driving reality. They play a slower game that is harder to screw up, that doesn't necessarily make them a smarter team, it just makes them a team with a different game plan.
What about a full court press? I want to see them bring the ball up the court with anyone but Taylor. And maybe it'd burn a little time off their offensive set, get them a little bit off-balance.*
*I didn't see the whole UNC game, so I don't know if UNC tried this and failed.
Buzz bought sterling basketballs.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 03, 2011, 11:31:34 AM
We are one of the best 15 teams in the country. Wisconsin is going to have to play really, really well to beat us. And there isn't a single team in the country that plays harder than we do. Some of you guys are complete pessimists.
I guess I should mention on this Marquette basketball message board that this game isn't really important in the grand scheme of things, particularly when you consider 9/11 and the Kennedy Assassination and all.
oh crap I agree with you
Quote from: shiloh26 on December 03, 2011, 12:01:43 PM
This is a better point than the idea that UW plays "smarter" than MU. That is totally perception driving reality. They play a slower game that is harder to screw up, that doesn't necessarily make them a smarter team, it just makes them a team with a different game plan.
What about a full court press? I want to see them bring the ball up the court with anyone but Taylor. And maybe it'd burn a little time off their offensive set, get them a little bit off-balance.*
*I didn't see the whole UNC game, so I don't know if UNC tried this and failed.
UNC actually tried to keep the ball in Taylor's hands and force him to beat them. His 3/11 from three didn't do the trick. I think we might be well suited to try the same with a mix of Vander, Mayo, and Jamil guarding JT today.
This whole "Smart Vander" concept is amusing. You don't get 2.5 steals per game without taking some chances. When he gets the steal, he's smart. When he misses & we get burned, he doesn't look so smart.
I don't think we win, but I also don't think this game defines our season. OOC is about learning about your team, getting ready for conference and seeding for March. So I'm also not going to be ranting if we lose. Unless, of course, the refs screw us. ;D
Quote from: KC2016 on December 03, 2011, 12:27:38 PM
This whole "Smart Vander" concept is amusing. You don't get 2.5 steals per game without taking some chances. When he gets the steal, he's smart. When he misses & we get burned, he doesn't look so smart.
"Smart Vander" concept is strangely similar to the "McNeal Theory".
Taking risks doesn't make a player smart or stupid. However, when the risks are taken is the factor of intelligence.
MU wil beat Wisconsin today. Period. The collective paranoia that exists about our ability to beat Wisconsin is disappointing. MU is VERY good this year. By far the most talented team Buzz has had to take into a game against UW. He beat UW with the Big 3, and they were very competitive at the Kohl with the midget team in 2009.
Why is our fanbase so pessimistic? You think other fanbases at schools who are ranked in Top 15 think they don't stand a chance against an opponent on the road??
Yes, it will be tough to win at the Kohl - but the mood around here over the last week has been largely doom and gloom about our chances. We are a very good team people..and present a great number of challenges to Wisconsin as well!!
If we were at home, I'd be 100% for a win.
Kohl Center? I don't even want to think about how quickly Jae and DJO will get into foul trouble ala DWade.
ners, it is the old real estate adage, "location, location, location". Bucky is good enough to play UNC straight up in Chapel Hill. Pollyannish expectations that we are good enough (and I think we ARE a good team) to beat them at the Kohl, where they have an OOC record under Bo in the 95% range is how silly wagers get made. I think we are a very good team. Better than last year, possibly the best since 03 (with apologies to 08-09 pre DJ foot break). But I don't expect us to win today and if I were a betting man, I would take Wiscy and give the points. May I be horribly wrong and may we actually be good enough to hang 88 on them, too.
Quote
Quote from: Ners on December 03, 2011, 01:12:48 PM
MU wil beat Wisconsin today. Period. The collective paranoia that exists about our ability to beat Wisconsin is disappointing. MU is VERY good this year. By far the most talented team Buzz has had to take into a game against UW. He beat UW with the Big 3, and they were very competitive at the Kohl with the midget team in 2009.
Why is our fanbase so pessimistic? You think other fanbases at schools who are ranked in Top 15 think they don't stand a chance against an opponent on the road??
Yes, it will be tough to win at the Kohl - but the mood around here over the last week has been largely doom and gloom about our chances. We are a very good team people..and present a great number of challenges to Wisconsin as well!!
You are absolutely correct. If it weren't for that big picture of Jae "and One" Crowder staring me in the face I think we were on a UW site. I don't know why we are even going to play the game? Why don't we save the gas money and forefit right now/.
And "Pollyannish expectations", where did you pick that one up, Lit 101? Most of the posts on here are about how great UW is How about how great MU is? We will win today!
May you be correct.
Quote from: tower912 on December 03, 2011, 01:26:17 PM
ners, it is the old real estate adage, "location, location, location". Bucky is good enough to play UNC straight up in Chapel Hill. Pollyannish expectations that we are good enough (and I think we ARE a good team) to beat them at the Kohl, where they have an OOC record under Bo in the 95% range is how silly wagers get made. I think we are a very good team. Better than last year, possibly the best since 03 (with apologies to 08-09 pre DJ foot break). But I don't expect us to win today and if I were a betting man, I would take Wiscy and give the points. May I be horribly wrong and may we actually be good enough to hang 88 on them, too.
I certainly understand your point of view and the Kohl Center track record under Bo Ryan - yes, it appears the odds are stacked against MU. However, it just seems the collective vibe of this board is that we don't stand much of a chance - which I strongly disagree with. I will be SHOCKED if we lose by more than 7.5 points (as the line is). In fact, I will take a 2-week hiatus from Scoop if we lose by more than 7.5 (which might make some here actually root for MU to lost by more than 7.5) ;D
This must be one of those silly wagers I was talking about.
It's nauseating how many people suck Wisconsin's long one on this board.
edit: come on, let's stay PG.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on December 03, 2011, 02:53:03 PM
It's nauseating how many people suck Wisconsin's dick on this board.
My opinions of Wisconsin are much like 4evers. Respect your opponent. They have the 3rd longest NCAA streak in the country. They play disciplined basketball and they win. If that means sucking dick, then that is your interpretation. Equally nauseating is the sophomoric commentary here about some of our rivals from people that clearly do not understand basketball or the reality that there are many ways to play that game and be successful.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 03, 2011, 11:41:35 AM
"Conservative basketball" is not what MU does. MU tries to pressure and overextend. That has nothing to do with being "smart" or "dumb." It is more of a high-risk, high-reward style. It's the style that Buzz has used and won with since getting here. So you are right in that if they make a bunch of turnovers they will lose....so will UW if they try to force tempo....however I have seen no evidence that UW is smarter basketball-wise than MU is.
Let me give you some examples, from today's game just in the first half. MU up 26 to 18, DJO decides to take it 1 on 3 and travels. That is dumb basketball. We have complete momentum, there is no point pushing the ball there, especially out of control.
Jae Crowder picking up a checking foul 85 feet from the basket as he pressures a guard. That is dumb basketball.
JC sitting this game for actions off the court. That is not smart.
Missing a shot on the offensive end and having two of our guys argue with the refs during live play while they beat us back for a layup. That was probably the first layup in the history of Bo Ryan basketball that went 94 feet because our guys weren't thinking.
They are kids. Do not expect perfection. Our team is good, really good. They could be great if we play a little smarter.
Well, Hoopaloop, let's look at UW. According to you, a suppossed MU fan, UW
QuoteThey always show up playing smart. Smart in the sense that they all are on the same page, one cohesive unit. Smart in the sense of totally understanding that if they play their way they will win. When they don't play their way, that is when they lose.
Tell me, if they
always show up playing smart and when they play their smart way they win, HOW DO THEY EVER LOSE?
Next, you forget to mention the 8 turnovers, your smart team made in the first half, how did that happen?
Quote from: denverMU on December 03, 2011, 04:41:44 PM
Well, Hoopaloop, let's look at UW. According to you, a suppossed MU fan, UW
Tell me, if they always show up playing smart and when they play their smart way they win, HOW DO THEY EVER LOSE?
Next, you forget to mention the 8 turnovers, your smart team made in the first half, how did that happen?
My team is MU (and Purdue). I said they don't have to worry about their guys showing up playing smart. We do. Have you watched us the last 4 minutes as we have completely pissed away a 13 point lead with dumb shots, behind the back save pass, shooting 3 pointers with 25 seconds on the clock. We don't play with a lot of smarts sometimes. If by stating the obvious means you label someone a fan of the other team, then there is nothing I can do about that.
Thanks for not answering my question. Also, how did your always smart playing UW team get down by 13 points?
Quote from: Hoopaloop on December 03, 2011, 04:17:12 PM
Let me give you some examples, from today's game just in the first half. MU up 26 to 18, DJO decides to take it 1 on 3 and travels. That is dumb basketball. We have complete momentum, there is no point pushing the ball there, especially out of control.
Jae Crowder picking up a checking foul 85 feet from the basket as he pressures a guard. That is dumb basketball.
JC sitting this game for actions off the court. That is not smart.
Missing a shot on the offensive end and having two of our guys argue with the refs during live play while they beat us back for a layup. That was probably the first layup in the history of Bo Ryan basketball that went 94 feet because our guys weren't thinking.
They are kids. Do not expect perfection. Our team is good, really good. They could be great if we play a little smarter.
Cherry pick a few incidents. <yawn>
They took too many quick shots in the first half. Too many dumb turnovers. They didn't play any smarter than MU did by the end of the game.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on December 03, 2011, 04:17:12 PM
Let me give you some examples, from today's game just in the first half. MU up 26 to 18, DJO decides to take it 1 on 3 and travels. That is dumb basketball. We have complete momentum, there is no point pushing the ball there, especially out of control.
Jae Crowder picking up a checking foul 85 feet from the basket as he pressures a guard. That is dumb basketball.
JC sitting this game for actions off the court. That is not smart.
Missing a shot on the offensive end and having two of our guys argue with the refs during live play while they beat us back for a layup. That was probably the first layup in the history of Bo Ryan basketball that went 94 feet because our guys weren't thinking.
They are kids. Do not expect perfection. Our team is good, really good. They could be great if we play a little smarter.
You're an ignorant buffoon. How many idiotic (and correctly called) charging calls did Wisconsin pick up? I can't tell you how many patronizing smiles those guys from Wisconsin displayed today after they made STUPID plays. We were the smarter team out there today. And the better team. There is zero doubt about that.
It's always entertaining to go back and read these pre-game comments after the game has ended.
Some of you are such debbie downers....have faith....we have a very good team that will only get better as the season progresses...
Quote from: LovinCrowder on December 03, 2011, 09:24:09 PM
It's always entertaining to go back and read these pre-game comments after the game has ended.
Some of you are such debbie downers....have faith....we have a very good team that will only get better as the season progresses...
+1
At this point we are significantly better than UNC ;)