on Saturday. The slowed down pace should help him out. Wisco is so weak down low its not even funny. Let "schemer" go to work.
I'm not sure that his rebounding is good enough to warrant extra minutes. We can't afford to give them extra chances on offense.
I agree. This Wisconsin team is not that good of an offensive rebounding team. Since Davante's weakness is defensive rebounding, it will not hurt us like it would versus UConn or a Pitt type team.
Mas Davante, por favor.
Quote
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 30, 2011, 08:58:09 PM
on Saturday. The slowed down pace should help him out. Wisco is so weak down low its not even funny. Let "schemer" go to work.
I agree he could eat them alive, score points and draw fouls.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 30, 2011, 08:58:09 PM
The slowed down pace should help him out.
I disagree actually. He should be our dominant change-of-pace guy. We can run teams off the floor, especially a team like the Badgers, and we should. Start the game with a track meet, let Vander get a good start w/ the open floor, and then bring in Davante when the other team is tired and he can dominate. Its actually our creating an up-tempo pace that is most beneficial to. I think we should run first, and as soon as we get into our half court set, Davante should be the first option when he's in. Its amazing how easily he backs guys in.
Quote from: dpucane on November 30, 2011, 09:19:39 PM
I disagree actually. He should be our dominant change-of-pace guy. We can run teams off the floor, especially a team like the Badgers, and we should. Start the game with a track meet,
I am sure that's exactly what UNC thought they could do. It's 25-24 at the half.
Quote from: dpucane on November 30, 2011, 09:19:39 PM
I disagree actually. He should be our dominant change-of-pace guy. We can run teams off the floor, especially a team like the Badgers, and we should. Start the game with a track meet, let Vander get a good start w/ the open floor, and then bring in Davante when the other team is tired and he can dominate. Its actually our creating an up-tempo pace that is most beneficial to. I think we should run first, and as soon as we get into our half court set, Davante should be the first option when he's in. Its amazing how easily he backs guys in.
Easier said than done. You watchin' this UNC game? They play WAY faster than us and it's 25-24 at the half. UW bores teams to death every time out no matter who they are.
They seem to be doing a pretty good job on Tyler Zeller.
You guys are underestimating Wisconsin. Berggren is a good defender and he is long.
Anybody still think we are going to beat them in transition?
NC has one fast break basket so far in 20 minutes.
UW is shooting badly tonight and is still right in the game because they aren't turning it over and NC is.
Its ugly to watch but it is effective.
NC has more talent at every position other then point guard and its 25-24.
Quote from: MU B2002 on November 30, 2011, 09:22:17 PM
I am sure that's exactly what UNC thought they could do. It's 25-24 at the half.
We're faster than UNC and deeper*. They play two bigs and Marshall is kinda slow and Barnes is more "smooth" than athletic. They're a halfcourt team. We have 4 starters who excel in transition. They also have only played 7 guys so far while we'll play at least 10 in one half, 8 of which are athletes.
*not saying were better in any way
If you think UNC is a half court team you have never seen them play other then tonight. they are the 5th most uptempo team in the country.
http://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjTempo
They are faster then we are and they are deeper. Did you see the game we played against them last year? They have basically the same team.
They look crappy tonight because Roy's teams hate playing half court basketball....they love to run......
Quote from: dpucane on November 30, 2011, 09:41:07 PM
We're faster than UNC and deeper*. They play two bigs and Marshall is kinda slow and Barnes is more "smooth" than athletic. They're a halfcourt team. We have 4 starters who excel in transition. They also have only played 7 guys so far while we'll play at least 10 in one half, 8 of which are athletes.
*not saying were better in any way
MU is not faster and/or more athletic than UNC, sorry.
Quote from: RJax55 on November 30, 2011, 09:57:25 PM
MU is not faster and/or more athletic than UNC, sorry.
True, but I think we are a much better half court team and better shooting. By no means am I saying that we'd be UNC because I feel that they are too big inside for us, just that we match up better against the Badgers from a style perspective.
Quote from: cheebs09 on November 30, 2011, 10:00:03 PM
True, but I think we are a much better half court team and better shooting. By no means am I saying that we'd be UNC because I feel that they are too big inside for us, just that we match up better against the Badgers from a style perspective.
From what I've seen, I'm not too high on this team's half court offense. That will undoubtedly change as we get into February and March, but right now it has not been too impressive. Same with the shooting- it will come around eventually, but right now we look a bit rusty.
I have seen them play many times and I know what they're supposed to be. But they aren't set up to play fast like we are, which is maybe why they're 6-1 instead of 7-0. They're inefficiently allocating their resources (showing off my prestigious Jesuit education). Marshall is a 6-4 distributor and Barnes is a half-court scorer who loves the pull-up J. Then they have Zeller, a great post scorer, and Henson, a long and bouncy athlete. I know they traditionally like to run, but that doesn't mean they can do it better than us. They run transition so well because they create turnovers and Marshall is a great point guard on top of having a fast-break philosophy.
We start 3 guards, 2 of which are top-tier athletes and the other a great passer, and a wing. We have 3 athletic wings and 2 guards on the bench. Running should be our bread & butter and beating Opie and "White Minnesota Badger, part 12" down the court should not be a problem. If it is, then Derrick Rose can't come back to me soon enough.
Regarding our game with them, the things I remember* were how easily Zeller scored in the post and the easy lobs to Henson. Zeller had 27 and 12 Henson had 14 and 12, and Barnes had 20. They killed us with size, not speed. And the big games they won last year seemed similar (Zeller had 27 when they beat UK followed by Henson with 13 and Barnes with 12)
*I must admit I've been trying to erase this from memory with a combination of counseling and various chemical substances
If Davante could guard somebody, he'd get more minutes. I don't know who he would guard on UW, terrible matchups for him defensively.
First of all, we need Otule in there. Yes, they want to shoot threes, but we still need his defense to block and alter the shots that aren't threes. We also need to try to get fouls on their bigs. UW had 21 fouls to UNC's 12. We likely won't have such a disparity at the KC, but getting to the line and making it harder for their guys to defend because of foul trouble seems like our best chance to win.
The question is how are we going to get those fouls? We aren't going to turn this into a track meet. If UNC couldn't do it, neither will we. Bucky only turned it over 4 times last night. They are incredibly efficient. There seem to be two ways we'll get fouls, either by driving to the hoop or by feeding DG down low. I think the best course would be to start by driving, and hoping that DJO, Blue, Mayo, and Cadougan could earn some FTs and fouls. Then if you do manage to get them into foul trouble, use DG. He'll be a lot more effective going up against guys with 2-3 fouls.
The pace might help him, and against a team that wants to shoot the three, occupying space in the middle will at times be enough on defense. Still, I can't see more than 15-18 minutes for him. Even at the slower pace, he's not playing with Otule, and I want at least 20 out of CO on the defensive end, and it wouldn't surprise me if we went small with Jamil at the 5 a bit too.
This one will be a great battle of wills. Who can Force more possessions to run through his team's strengths?
If the Whisky bigs can catch and face vs Davante or CO, our guys will get beat like Zellar did for little reverse lay-ups, baby hooks and short jumpers. Jamil would have a much better chance of guarding out there.
On the other end can we use dribble drives to force help and draw fouls or will they sag enough to cut off those lanes to the hoop.
One of the big surprises for me last night was how Whiskey made Carolina look weak with the ball. In the first half at least it looked like Bucky was stripping the Tarheels drivers and posts and winning every 50/50 ball. That's not how I remember Carolina when they pasted us.
I think the game will come down to who can get te spacing to force the match-ups his team needs.
As much as Taylor and their bigs are nightmares for us, no one on that team wants to have to contain DJO, guard Crowder inside and out or get behind DG in the post with no help coming.
Let's see how Buzz sets his boys up to win against a very smart coach.
We will not run UW out of the gym. If we try to run and gun and if we jack up shots too quickly, we will be playing right into Bucky's hands.
On defense, we need to defend the 3 -- really stay in their faces -- and then box out as if our lives depend on it.
On offense, we need to work to get good shots, not just fast shots, and it would be helpful if a couple of our perimeter players can match their 3-point shooting.
The refs probably won't be in our favor, so we'd better make the free throws we get.
Taylor shot 6-for-20 and yet Wisconsin almost won on the road against one of the best teams in the country. As usual, Bo knows how to force the opponent to play at his tempo. We need to be ready for war. It could mean a few more minutes for Gardner, if he can avoid losing his man when he's on D, but we obviously need Otule's length, as well.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 01, 2011, 06:48:07 AM
If Davante could guard somebody, he'd get more minutes. I don't know who he would guard on UW, terrible matchups for him defensively.
This. I was thinking similarly to the gist of this thread that if we could get the ball into post to Ox, we could draw some fouls on their bigs and score some points. On the other hand, it always seems to me that the swing offense invloves a lot of 7 foot guys shooting 3 pointers. I am not sure Davante can guard the perimeter effectively.
Quote from: MU82 on December 01, 2011, 09:14:12 AM
We will not run UW out of the gym. If we try to run and gun and if we jack up shots too quickly, we will be playing right into Bucky's hands.
I agree with this, in part. MU needs to run on the Badgers. Dictate tempo. Last night, UW did what they many times do against us, they send 3, 4, 5 guys back on a shot versus challenging the boards. UNC never threatened to break, so UW went back to attacking the glass. If MU pushes the ball, I expect bo will go smaller more often and not crash the offensive glass as hard. If MU plays transition like UNC did last night, bo will crash the boards.
UNC never used its speed against UW. I expect Buzz will not fall into the same trap.
EDIT: Sorry if this got the thread off track. I did not see the title when I responded to the prior post. Mods, feel free to move this, if that works.
Out of all the UNC players, the guy that impresses me most is Henson. Watching him play position D and rebound,love to have a guy that dominate!
I agree that Jamil could be a real factor playing the 5 as well with his length and athleticism. This would be a good time for him to get a little more agressive.
Brew, you said you couldn't see Davante getting more than 18 minutes. Thats actually pretty much the amount I was shooting for when saying he needs more minutes. 18 against a top 10 team is solid minutes for our back up.
Quote from: dpucane on November 30, 2011, 09:41:07 PM
We're faster than UNC and deeper*. They play two bigs and Marshall is kinda slow and Barnes is more "smooth" than athletic. They're a halfcourt team. We have 4 starters who excel in transition. They also have only played 7 guys so far while we'll play at least 10 in one half, 8 of which are athletes.
*not saying were better in any way
wow, what have you been watching. no way are we faster and deeper. Jeez, we have played a bunch of cupcakes so far. Lets not get carried away.
bumping this since otule sucks
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 03, 2011, 03:54:08 PM
bumping this since otule sucks
Terrible..... Hands of Stone. Gardner can catch the ball and then maybe get fouled going up.
Both teams shooting 30%, Mayo had two threes go half down in basket and then out. With MU picking up fouls, just glad its close.
ya im real impressed with our D. The refs are just terible this game though. Both teams having some in and out balls.
Bluuuuuuueeeeee!