I know the first two opponents haven't been world beaters, but we're running 10 deep, and many times I have a hard time telling which is the first and which is the 2nd team.
Jones looks like he will contribute.
Vander looks much improved.
The freshman do not look intimidated AT ALL
We actually look like we can go 10 deep
We have 2 quality big men
Juniors 2nd half of last season wasn't a fluke
Wilson is a perfectly adequate back up point
Mayo can score
Haven't even seen Anderson yet
This team could be very VERY good
We had some real sloppy moments today but once again I was impressed with the defense(Norfolk just jacked up 3s to get their points). Vander looked real solid and agressive while making some mistakes(the travel and missed layup) and I really like Dwilson's defense. Most impressive was shutting out and fouling out their best player with ease. Davante will be a huge asset when he spells Otule because he draws fouls SO MUCH better.
If Jae and DJO shows signs of playing like this against good teams........yes we can be very, very good. This weekend will tell a little more though with December being a real barometer.
-Norfolk State isn't bad...if O'Quinn is more like his hype and less like this game and the three players eligible in the second semester are any good they have to have a shot in the MEAC.
-Mayo showed why he was billed as a scorer. Don't think he will get buried on the bench once the rotation tightens up. Offensively reminds me of Buycks, except no frustrating turnovers yet.
-Wilson is a very good defender and excellent ball handler for a freshman. Hopefully can develop into more of a playmaker, but I'll take a stat sheet filler as a backup point.
-Question coming into the year was who our third consistent scoring option would be after DJO and Crowder. -We have no idea who that could be yet (Blue is the favorite through two games). Good news is there are five or six players who could be it.
-Juan, why'd you have to take that Brewers ticket? Missed out on plenty of opportunity the past two games.
-Our starters are absolutely our starters at this point. Ten high major players, but I think the five make the most sense.
Quote from: chapman on November 14, 2011, 08:52:11 PM
-Question coming into the year was who our third consistent scoring option would be after DJO and Crowder. -We have no idea who that could be yet (Blue is the favorite through two games). Good news is there are five or six players who could be it.
-
I still think Gardner ends up being our third leading scorer, and that's coming off the bench as Otule deserves more minutes. Though Blue and Gardner may be so close that it is more like option 3A and 3B, than a third and fourth.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on November 14, 2011, 09:10:45 PM
I still think Gardner ends up being our third leading scorer, and that's coming off the bench as Otule deserves more minutes. Though Blue and Gardner may be so close that it is more like option 3A and 3B, than a third and fourth.
Unless Gardner gets quicker on defense I don't think he'll see enough time to be our 3rd leading scorer this year. I really hope you're right, though, and that he continues to develop quickly :)
You know, I thought I would see something a little different out of Gardner. I was excited to hear about how he lost some weight and had gotten into shape. But he still looks...well...slow and heavy. Not very athletic...not much burst.
I just don't see how they can put him and Otule on the floor at the same time without really sacrificing something on the defensive end.
Good performances, but our three-point defense tonight was horrendous. It wasn't just NSU jacking them up to jack them up, they had tons of wide open looks. We did well defending the interior, but we need to be able to defend inside and outside.
Lots of promise on this team, and last year we wouldn't have won this game by 30+, but there's still a lot of work to do. We won't have a good barometer until after the Winthrop game of how good we really are.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 14, 2011, 09:18:53 PM
You know, I thought I would see something a little different out of Gardner. I was excited to hear about how he lost some weight and had gotten into shape. But he still looks...well...slow and heavy. Not very athletic...not much burst.
I just don't see how they can put him and Otule on the floor at the same time without really sacrificing something on the defensive end.
Buzz said on "Inside Marquette" CO and DG will always only play the 5. You will not see them on the floor together. He said the same thing about the 1. Junior and DWil will not be on the floor at the same time.
OK good. Then I don't see how he gets enough playing time to be the number three scorer on this team. He can't create his own shot.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 14, 2011, 09:19:58 PM
Good performances, but our three-point defense tonight was horrendous. It wasn't just NSU jacking them up to jack them up, they had tons of wide open looks. We did well defending the interior, but we need to be able to defend inside and outside.
Lots of promise on this team, and last year we wouldn't have won this game by 30+, but there's still a lot of work to do. We won't have a good barometer until after the Winthrop game of how good we really are.
I'll be the turd in the punchbowl.
Despite holding Norfolk State to 0.84 ppp, forcing a turnover rate of 31%, and limiting their OR% to 25%, we allowed Norfolk State to shoot an eFG% of 52%. They shot an eFG% of 56% in the second half. For comparison, Norfolk State only got an eFG% higher than 52% eleven times the entire year last year.
After all the defensive promise of the first game, this is the sort of thing that makes me concerned.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 14, 2011, 09:18:53 PM
You know, I thought I would see something a little different out of Gardner. I was excited to hear about how he lost some weight and had gotten into shape. But he still looks...well...slow and heavy. Not very athletic...not much burst.
I just don't see how they can put him and Otule on the floor at the same time without really sacrificing something on the defensive end.
Thought the same thing...he's an easy big man to draw a foul on when guards attack the hoop, he's out of position all the time on defense, and he has no ability to get up in the air for a rebound. If he can make sure he's in the right place at the right time on defense it will greatly help to make up for his inability to block shots, and he boxes out well enough, but if it's a 50/50 ball it's not going his way. Give him the ball on the low post though and he commands a double to stop him.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 14, 2011, 09:18:53 PM
You know, I thought I would see something a little different out of Gardner. I was excited to hear about how he lost some weight and had gotten into shape. But he still looks...well...slow and heavy. Not very athletic...not much burst.
I just don't see how they can put him and Otule on the floor at the same time without really sacrificing something on the defensive end.
I agree. People were predicting 40+ minutes for the Gardner/Otule tandem. My guess was more like 33-35, with the 2 almost never playing together and Buzz playing small some of the time. Still feel the same way.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on November 14, 2011, 09:58:10 PM
I'll be the turd in the punchbowl.
Despite holding Norfolk State to 0.84 ppp, forcing a turnover rate of 31%, and limiting their OR% to 25%, we allowed Norfolk State to shoot an eFG% of 52%. They shot an eFG% of 56% in the second half. For comparison, Norfolk State only got an eFG% higher than 52% eleven times the entire year last year.
After all the defensive promise of the first game, this is the sort of thing that makes me concerned.
Exact same thoughts. Kinda hope they're just using these early games to work on a full court press, then once the competition starts to get real (mad real) it will end up as token pressure to wear out the the opposing PG. There were too many seams to exploit. A solid backcourt will be able to take advantage and find an open shot after a few passes if they stay calm. You can't really rely on turnovers against elite competition.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on November 14, 2011, 09:58:10 PM
I'll be the turd in the punchbowl.
Despite holding Norfolk State to 0.84 ppp, forcing a turnover rate of 31%, and limiting their OR% to 25%, we allowed Norfolk State to shoot an eFG% of 52%. They shot an eFG% of 56% in the second half. For comparison, Norfolk State only got an eFG% higher than 52% eleven times the entire year last year.
After all the defensive promise of the first game, this is the sort of thing that makes me concerned.
Agree - Will be interesting to see if Buzz/the guys can get it corrected - but the defense last night looked a lot like last years - defending out too far from the painted area, and then being out of position to rotate defensively, leading to wide open 3's. On the flip side, part of defending so far out from the painted area, and with the very aggressive ball pressure - has translated into turnovers, and it is also hard to quantify the cumulative effect that intensity/pressure stresses the opponent over the course of a 40 minute game. Does 2nd half FG% usually decline?
As I watched the game, I thought to myself - they can't play this kind of "D" against Wisconsin...or other good 3 point shooting teams.
I wouldn't be that concerned about all the 3s they hit. It was pretty obvious that at about the 10 minute mark of the first half Norfolk decided that their best chance to keep the game close was to shoot threes. As a result their guys took the first 3 look they got. Despite all the statistical analysis there are nights when teams are hot from outside and nights when they are not. There were some pretty "bad" shots that went in (remember the shot from 4 feet behind the arc that banked in). It wasn't like these guys were working plays to get a specific "great shooter" open. Most of this was just a few passes and chuck. They just happened to go in.
If you want to be concerned about something I'd be more concerned about the rebounding. It seemed to me that we got almost no offensive rebounds. Besides Jae there is really no one else, even the 5s, who you can pretty much count on to get any rebound that comes off to his side. Chris and Devante have got to get more consistent at eating up anything in their area and not letting it bounce around. In the past MU's guards have been good rebounders. Neither Junior nor DJO are real good in that area so that means whoever is playing the 3 has got to be a rebound magnetic.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on November 15, 2011, 08:13:39 AM
I wouldn't be that concerned about all the 3s they hit. It was pretty obvious that at about the 10 minute mark of the first half Norfolk decided that their best chance to keep the game close was to shoot threes. As a result their guys took the first 3 look they got. Despite all the statistical analysis there are nights when teams are hot from outside and nights when they are not. There were some pretty "bad" shots that went in (remember the shot from 4 feet behind the arc that banked in). It wasn't like these guys were working plays to get a specific "great shooter" open. Most of this was just a few passes and chuck. They just happened to go in.
I would agree with you more if poor eFG% defense hadn't been an issue the last three years.
The last game had great defense. This one had decent defense except for the eFG%, but that's my big concern. Obviously, it's too early to start running around in panic, so let's see how the Paradise Jam unfolds.
My basic point is that I won't start saying this team is good until the eFG% defense shows some consistent signs of improvement. Because again,
eFG% defense is two to fourteen times more important than any other aspect of defense.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on November 15, 2011, 08:26:34 AM
I would agree with you more if poor eFG% defense hadn't been an issue the last three years.
The last game had great defense. This one had decent defense except for the eFG%, but that's my big concern. Obviously, it's too early to start running around in panic, so let's see how the Paradise Jam unfolds.
My basic point is that I won't start saying this team is good until the eFG% defense shows some consistent signs of improvement. Because again, eFG% defense is two to fourteen times more important than any other aspect of defense.
I would agree that last nights game neither proves nor disproves that trend. I think that if you extend your defense to pressure the ball and have guys cheat in the passing lanes your are going to give up something else on defense. The two things from last year I would worry about are: 1 Giving up layups because the other team beats an over play. That happened last year due to slow rotations and you can't have that + its something your center has to contest. 2. The inability to play solid half court defense for one or two possessions at the end of a game or half. You've got to make that tying or winning basket very difficult
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 14, 2011, 10:18:59 PMI agree. People were predicting 40+ minutes for the Gardner/Otule tandem. My guess was more like 33-35, with the 2 almost never playing together and Buzz playing small some of the time. Still feel the same way.
Agreed. I expect around 24 for CO and 12 for DG. Once O'Quinn fouled out, Buzz almost exclusively played Jamil and Jae at the 5. When he wants to go quick, he'll do this, and I can't see our two centers being out there together unless we're
playing a very slow-paced team.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 14, 2011, 09:18:53 PM
You know, I thought I would see something a little different out of Gardner. I was excited to hear about how he lost some weight and had gotten into shape. But he still looks...well...slow and heavy. Not very athletic...not much burst.
Dude's probably still heavier than Otule, even after trimming up a bit, and he's billed as 2 inches shorter.
In year 1, Buzz had three go-to seniors with no supporting cast outside of Zar and Jimmy, he had only one senior stud in each of the past two years with a thin bench. This year he has two stud seniors with a deep and good supporting cast. That increases the margin for error and is a recipe for a successful season.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 14, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
OK good. Then I don't see how he gets enough playing time to be the number three scorer on this team. He can't create his own shot.
Gardner has some of the smoothest post moves I've ever seen. He can absolutely create his own shot. Sure someone has to feed him down low, but what he does with it after he receives the ball is pretty impressive. The guy has incredible awareness on the court. If by creating his own shot you mean beating someone off the dribble, that's never going to happen and that's not what he's supposed to do anyway. Fundamentally he is one of the most sound post players in the Big East on offense.
What's really impressed me about Gardner is his ability to create space near the hoop to get his shot off. He's got almost no vertical but always seems to be able to get a clean look even when guarded tight down low.
Quote from: mugrad2006 on November 15, 2011, 10:00:14 AM
What's really impressed me about Gardner is his ability to create space near the hoop to get his shot off. He's got almost no vertical but always seems to be able to get a clean look even when guarded tight down low.
For a guy that looks slow, he gets really quick with the ball in his hands. Without the ball in his hands, he still seems to be seeking out how to get in position. And he was out on a fast break if I remember correctly...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 14, 2011, 09:31:48 PM
OK good. Then I don't see how he gets enough playing time to be the number three scorer on this team. He can't create his own shot.
He does not need a lot of playing time to be the thrid leading scorer. He just needs enough touches. While overall he is not athletic, he is very athletic in some instances. He scored on a rebound last night by picking it off the floor on a bounce and in one fluid move scored a basket. He also scored on and was fouled on a play where he received a pass as he was runing down the lane. Without the ball he is not athletic, but with the ball the things he does is very athletic.He cannot jump, but he has such great hands and a nose for the ball he is a threat to score anytime there is a chance for an offensive rebound.
How good is this team? They are good at two things. They play pretty good pressure defense and they can score. However, there are a number of weaknesses. Their on the ball pressure defense does result in open threes and therefore they are susceptable to a team that can move the ball and can shoot the three (Wisconsin). They are at best an average three point shooting team. However, the biggest weakness is their rebounding. Without proper blocking out they do not have anyone who can just go up and take the ball away from the opposing player.
The good news about those weaknesses is that they are being exposed early against weaker opponents. If we were going through pretty effortlessly against these teams (well Norfolk State was closer than it should have been for awhile) and looking invincible, it may not register to the guys that it is a big problem. However, hopefully now it catches their attention and work to fix it. Offensive rebounding killed us against Wisconsin last year, and based on their first game, they will take a lot of threes, so we need to improve on that if we want to beat them. Vandy isn't any pushover inside either.
Quote from: bilsu on November 15, 2011, 11:08:12 AM
However, the biggest weakness is their rebounding. Without proper blocking out they do not have anyone who can just go up and take the ball away from the opposing player.
I feel like this is tied to the poor defending. They're often so out of position when a shot goes up that it's really difficult to find their man and put a body on him.
Quote from: Cooby Snacks on November 15, 2011, 11:16:16 AM
I feel like this is tied to the poor defending. They're often so out of position when a shot goes up that it's really difficult to find their man and put a body on him.
It is a downside to the type of defense they are playing. However, without pressing on every possession, I am not sure they would be very good at all, so I am not willing to say it is due to poor defense.
We'll see. Saying we're good because we beat a girls' school and Norfolk State is like test driving a Ferrari on the Kennedy Expressway at 7:30 a.m., on a weekday morning. That's not even close to the conditions the car was built for, any more than Norfolk State and MSM were conditions this Marquette team was built for.
Call me after the games against the disgusting, loathsome Red Rodent of Madison, Vanderbilt, Washington and LSU and then let's talk. In the meantime, this is just glorified practice.